Karen Sullivan on thu 18 nov 10
I have a friend who is living in Fuji...
working to create sustainable agriculture
and recently sent me this request.
if anyone has suggestions it would be
appreciated.
if you would send me replies, I will forward
them on to him.
Many thanks
karen
Hey Karen,
Something came up recently. It is funny that you sent an email to me at the
same time this came up.
I am looking into the possibilities of ecological sustainable solutions to
kilns. We are contemplating the possibilities of building an eco-kiln. I
realize that this is a vague concept, but I am wondering if you know of
anyone working in the development of solar oven kilns or some other
relatively simple technology that would give the ability to fire a low fire
kiln.
We have some models of development which could do this through bio-gas
however that would require farm animals or a fairly large amount of human
manure. Or we could use coconut oil.
In any case, if you might have an idea of who I might contact in the realm
of ecologic kiln solutions for the developing world, that would be fabulous=
.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Daniel
Arnold Howard on thu 18 nov 10
From: "Karen Sullivan"
I am wondering if you know of
> anyone working in the development of solar oven kilns or
> some other
> relatively simple technology that would give the ability
> to fire a low fire
> kiln.
-----------
Two years ago, students at MIT made a 12-foot solar dish
that produced enough heat to melt a bar of steel:
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/solar-dish-0618.html
That is hotter than cone 10!
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Jeremy McLeod on fri 19 nov 10
Hi, Daniel.
Depending on availability of waste cooking oil from restaurants, you migh=
=3D
t
look into ways to use an oil fired kiln as an eco-friendly option.
Peace.
Jeremy McLeod
On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 08:56:41 -0800, Karen Sullivan =3D
ET>
wrote:
>
>Hey Karen,
>Something came up recently. It is funny that you sent an email to me at =
=3D
the
>same time this came up.
>I am looking into the possibilities of ecological sustainable solutions =
=3D
to
>kilns. We are contemplating the possibilities of building an eco-kiln. I=
=3D
>realize that this is a vague concept, but I am wondering if you know of
>anyone working in the development of solar oven kilns or some other
>relatively simple technology that would give the ability to fire a low f=
=3D
ire
>kiln.
>We have some models of development which could do this through bio-gas
>however that would require farm animals or a fairly large amount of huma=
=3D
n
>manure. Or we could use coconut oil.
>In any case, if you might have an idea of who I might contact in the rea=
=3D
lm
>of ecologic kiln solutions for the developing world, that would be fabul=
=3D
ous.
>Thanks.
>Best wishes,
>Daniel
Vince Pitelka on fri 19 nov 10
Douglas Fur wrote:
"Bio-gas in addition to maure grren plant material can be used to genertate
methane."
Hi Douglas -
I don't know if you wrote this on your phone or what, but could you please
translate the above sentence so we can all understand it?
But the real point of my message is in regard to this statement:
"If you want a clean fire then use the electricity to generate hydrogen gas
to fire with."
I expect you would agree that the big electrical companies are among the
very worst polluters all over the world, and while electricity may seem lik=
e
a clean fuel within our own studios and homes, it is not a clean fuel on a
global level unless it comes from clean generation. Using domestic
electricity to generate hydrogen would be horribly inefficient, far more so
than just firing a kiln with electricity. It is the same kind of fallacy a=
s
devoting such vast resources of domestic corn to making fuel for automobile=
s
when it can be used so much more efficiently for feeding people or animals.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
douglas fur on fri 19 nov 10
Karen,
Using sunlight directly for an eco-kiln is difficult. Reflector systems
tend to make one spot very hot.
bio-gas in addition to maure grren plant material can be used to genertat=
e
methane.
coconut oil. wood and bio gas are all solar energy collected by plants.
Wind tidal energy are second hand solar energy as well.
Burning plants releases green-house gases
wind, tidal, ocean current power could generate electricity to fire. if you
want a clean fire than use the electricity to generate hydrogen gas to fire
with.
DRB
Seola Creek
Lee Love on fri 19 nov 10
If you simply burn waste wood that would have been burnt anyways, you
are carbon neutral.
--
=3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
Lee Love on fri 19 nov 10
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 2:29 PM, douglas fur <23drb50@gmail.com> wrote:
> Burning plants releases green-house gases
A friend of mine who was in Jerry Brown's first administration (and
helped get windmills going there) showed me a plan for a wood fired
electric plant that would maintain its own woodlot. If you grow
wood for fuel and maintain that lot, you take a net 2/3rds of the
carbon out of the air to be released slowly, in the form of roots,
cuttings, humus and leaves. New woodlots grown for fuel are one of
the most ecological sources of energy.
--
=3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
Hank Murrow on sat 20 nov 10
On Nov 19, 2010, at 7:00 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Douglas Fur wrote:
> "If you want a clean fire then use the electricity to generate =3D
hydrogen gas
> to fire with."
>=3D20
> I expect you would agree that the big electrical companies are among =3D
the
> very worst polluters all over the world, and while electricity may =3D
seem like
> a clean fuel within our own studios and homes, it is not a clean fuel =3D
on a
> global level unless it comes from clean generation. Using domestic
> electricity to generate hydrogen would be horribly inefficient, far =3D
more so
> than just firing a kiln with electricity. It is the same kind of =3D
fallacy as
> devoting such vast resources of domestic corn to making fuel for =3D
automobiles
> when it can be used so much more efficiently for feeding people or =3D
animals.
> - Vince
Vince and Duff;
David Stannard was in the process of developing a pottery near Fairbanks =
=3D
AK using wind power to generate electricity to create hydrogen for =3D
firing a gas kiln to cone 10. He wanted to demonstrate that it is =3D
possible to collect enough energy 'on-site' to fire a gas kiln =3D
regularly, while powering crushing and grinding equipment to process and =
=3D
benificate a local porcelainstone he mined on the same site. A limestone =
=3D
along the road on the way into his site would provide flux for the =3D
glazes.
Sadly, he suffered a brain tumor and died in the summer of 2009 before =3D
realizing his dream. We are poorer now for the lack of his vision.
Cheers, Hank=3D
steve graber on sat 20 nov 10
just read an article in today's los angeles times about several companies =
=3D
=3D0AFINALLY getting units installed to use tide and wave energy.=3DA0 4 ti=
mes =3D
a day we =3D0Ahave tides moving in and out and the north east and north wes=
t =3D
get=3DA0serious tidal =3D0Avariations.=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0A=3D0Ai swear the best=
choice is w=3D
hat i call salt and pepper where everyone uses a =3D0Acombination of the fo=
rm=3D
al grid and other greener schemes.=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0A=3D0Aif i ever make a mil=
lion $$$=3D
and then have time to play i swear we can use the =3D0Apublic grid electri=
c =3D
(green by solar or wind or tidal) and use the=3DA0waste water =3D0Acoming o=
ut o=3D
f your house as the basis to extract hydrogen gas.=3DA0 THEN plug little =
=3D0Ag=3D
as bottles of H2 into the car to suplement other power systems.=3DA0 or slo=
wl=3D
y fill =3D0Aa tank of hydrogen and use it like any large propane tank.=3DA0=
=3D0A=3D
=3D0A=3D0Awhen i got solar electric installed on my house, i found out by w=
atch=3D
ing the new =3D0Ameter that=3DA0my house generally runs on 400 watts.=3DA0 =
so sma=3D
ll systems can truly =3D0Ahave a serious impact on your daily life.=3DA0 sm=
all =3D
windmills like those used for =3D0Acruising sailboats or seen on farm lands=
=3D
=3DA0~ 6 foot diameter or so ~ are usually =3D0Arated for about 500 watts.=
=3DA0 t=3D
hey list for around $3000 or so plus installation.=3DA0 =3D0Aif i lived nea=
r a =3D
creek or running stream i'd drop a boat=3DA0propeller style system =3D0Aint=
o th=3D
e water for some free juice.=3DA0 even just to keep my beer cooler cold for=
=3D
=3D0Afree.=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0A=3D0Ai have no clew and don't feel like running a=
ny analysi=3D
s for how long it would =3D0Atake to fill a 150 gallon propane tank with hy=
dr=3D
ogen using the old science 101 =3D0Aelectrolosis method....=3DA0 but i'm gu=
essi=3D
ng it=3DA0can be filled in a month with a =3D0Asimple small windmill system=
.=3DA0=3D
=3D0A=3D0A=3DA0Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc=3D0AClaremont, Californ=
ia USA=3D
=3D0AThe Steve Tool - for awesome texture on pots! =3D0Awww.graberspottery.=
com =3D
steve@graberspottery.com =3D0A=3D0A=3D0AOn Laguna Clay's website=3D0Ahttp:/=
/www.lag=3D
unaclay.com/blogs/ =3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A> =3D0A> > Douglas Fur wrote:=3D0A> =
> "If you wa=3D
nt a clean fire then use the electricity to generate hydrogen gas=3D0A> > t=
o =3D
fire with."=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
douglas fur on sat 20 nov 10
- Vince
"Bio-gas in addition to maure grren plant material can be used to genertate
methane."I don't know if you wrote this on your phone -Nope I can write lik=
e
that without any technological assist. Green plant material can be used as
well as or with manures to geneate methane
*But the real point of my message is in regard to this statement:*
"If you want a clean fire then use the electricity to generate hydrogen gas
to fire with."
My assumption was that the electricity would be wind or wave generated...
*I expect you would agree that the big electrical companies are among the
very worst polluters all over the world,*
Yes I do agree,
*It is the same kind of fallacy as devoting such vast resources of domestic
corn to making fuel for automobiles-*
Look at lee's post above- there is some improvement in growing oil grains
for fuel as opposed to drilling for it
*when it can be used so much more efficiently for feeding people or animals=
*
.
Demand for corn for ethanol has pushed up food prices world wide. An unseen
consequence of good intentions. (and there are valid reasons for us to not
eat corn or feed it to feedlot animals but that's not my soapbox)
DRB
Seola creek
**
May Luk on sun 21 nov 10
This post offers no suggestion to eco-kiln in a developing county, namely F=
uji.
When I have an idle moment walking to the studio, I think about being
green and doing pottery. I start thinking about the idea of being
seasonal about doing our chores.
This past Summer, I saw the kilns, fans and AC going in tandem in my
studio in the heat wave. It was eco-mayhem. It was really just poor
planning on our part. Next year, I am going to time my production so
as to avoid any firing in July and August. (vamos ala playa!) The kiln
will be put to good use as heating source in the Winter.
Living in NYC, I can always off set my carbon footprint from kiln
firing by not having a car, be conscientious about my energy usage,
etc. My biggest problem is water usage. I just like to be clean and
dust-free. I will stop here now and not talk about that Pandora's box
of shipping wares to national and international online customers, who
help pay my studio bills.
Best regards
May
--
http://twitter.com/MayLuk
http://www.ceramicsbrooklyn.com/
Lee Love on sun 21 nov 10
On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 1:05 PM, douglas fur <23drb50@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Demand for corn for ethanol has pushed up food prices world wide. An unse=
=3D
en
> consequence of good intentions. =3DA0(and there are valid reasons for us =
to=3D
not
> eat corn or feed it to feedlot animals but that's not my soapbox)
It makes no sense to burn food or feed what we can eat to animals.
(when the aquifers are dry in China and they trade our debt for
grain/portable water, we will feel it.) The healthiest meat primarily
eats what we cannot eat ourselves.
--
=3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
steve graber on sun 21 nov 10
that's pretty cool - and something i'd sure enjoy trying out one of these d=
=3D
ays.=3DA0 =3D0Ain the brazing world there used to be a company that would b=
raze=3D
using hydrogen =3D0Aas their reducing gas.=3DA0 most places have brazing f=
urna=3D
ces with nitrogen to =3D0Ainsure no oxygen is in the process - getting gooo=
d =3D
results.=3DA0 but the house using =3D0Ahydrogen got REALLY nice brazed part=
s us=3D
ing hydrogen as their reduction gas.=3DA0 so =3D0Ai wonder if there is a st=
ep=3D
=3DA0up in=3DA0pottery reduction firing from using hydrogen =3D0Aas well?=
=3DA0 =3D0A=3D
=3D0A=3DA0Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc=3D0AClaremont, California USA=
=3D0AThe=3D
Steve Tool - for awesome texture on pots! =3D0Awww.graberspottery.com stev=
e@=3D
graberspottery.com =3D0A=3D0A=3D0AOn Laguna Clay's website=3D0Ahttp://www.l=
agunacla=3D
y.com/blogs/ =3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A----- Original Message ----=3D0A> From: Ha=
nk Murrow =3D
=3D0A> To: steve graber =3D0A> Sent: S=
at, =3D
November 20, 2010 6:57:12 PM=3D0A> Subject: Re: eco kiln request=3D0A> =3D0=
A> =3D0A=3D
> On Nov 20, 2010, at 1:47 PM, steve grabber wrote:=3D0A> > =3D0A> > i have=
no =3D
clew and don't feel like running any analysis for how long it would =3D0A>=
=3D0A=3D
> > take to fill a 150 gallon propane tank with hydrogen using the old scie=
=3D
nce =3D0A>101 =3D0A>=3D0A> > electrolosis method....=3DA0 but i'm guessing =
it can b=3D
e filled in a month with a =3D0A=3D0A> > simple small windmill system.=3DA0=
=3D0A> =3D
=3D0A> David Stannard calculated that he could fire once a week in a 20cuft=
k=3D
iln fired =3D0A>on Hydrogen generated by the energy provided by his 3.5 KW =
wi=3D
nd generator. Even =3D0A>allowed for running his crusher and ball mill to p=
re=3D
pare materials on site.=3D0A> =3D0A> Cheers, Hank Murrow=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
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