Dick & Gwen Schenz on fri 9 jan 98
Greeting Clayarters:
Another question from a lurker.
Our Sun City Tucson clay club has a Skutt Km 1027 kiln with a KilnMaster
computer controller. It is powered with 208 volts and has the propper
elements installed. Also, a downdraft "Envirovent" is installed and used.
We use the default firing profiles.
After 58 firings to cone 04 and cone 5, the computer kicks out with an
"ERR1" which means that the temperature is rising less than 20 degrees per
hour. (cone 5 firing) We have taken that error to mean that the elements
need to be replaced and that usually cures the problem.
The question is, is 58 firings a reasonable element life?
I have been told that it is not. Also that the vent should be shut off for
the cooldown. (Dosen't seem reasonable to me)
Another question. would spraying the interior of the kiln and elements
increase element life?
We do 58 firings inabout 6 months and changing them gets old.
Any information on these questions would be greatly appreciated.
Richard Schenz
Tucson, AZ USA
Ann Peters on sat 10 jan 98
When I see ERR1 on our controller, the first thing I now do is check
the thermoprobe, NOT the elements. I went through our firing log
after a couple of years of operation and found that the probe usually
breaks after 50 to 60 cone 6 firings, or about 300 cone 06 bisque
firings. Sometimes the probe is very visibly broken, sometimes it's
hard to tell. But changing the probe always fixes the problem. Wish
the operation manual mentionned this! There is a catalogue number for
replacement probes given in the back.
Ann Peters
Yellowknife, NWT Canada
Elizabeth A. Ringus on sat 10 jan 98
I have the same Skutt and fire at 05 and 6 and I got 300 firings ( in 3 years)
off it before I had to replace elements. I don't have an envirovent but I have
a kiln room exhaust fan located two feet from the lid of the kiln. There is a
good article (maybe somewhat biased) written by Stephen Lewicki (president of
L&L Kiln Mfg.) in the Nov. /Dec 1997 issue of Clay Times on "Improving your
Kiln's Element Life". Also, as a suggestion, I keep a clipboard record of the
firing time (total hours for each firing) cone temp. and date so that I can
see immediately if the kiln is slowing down.
I replace my elements from Euclid's in Canada. Because of different wire gage
standards in Canada, I had to increase my circuit breaker amps (50 to 60) .
Love my Skutt, and my L & L , too! Liz in SC where the sun's out finally!
Dick & Gwen Schenz wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Greeting Clayarters:
>
> Another question from a lurker.
> Our Sun City Tucson clay club has a Skutt Km 1027 kiln with a KilnMaster
> computer controller. It is powered with 208 volts and has the propper
> elements installed. Also, a downdraft "Envirovent" is installed and used.
> We use the default firing profiles.
>
> After 58 firings to cone 04 and cone 5, the computer kicks out with an
> "ERR1" which means that the temperature is rising less than 20 degrees per
> hour. (cone 5 firing) We have taken that error to mean that the elements
> need to be replaced and that usually cures the problem.
>
> The question is, is 58 firings a reasonable element life?
>
> I have been told that it is not. Also that the vent should be shut off for
> the cooldown. (Dosen't seem reasonable to me)
>
> Another question. would spraying the interior of the kiln and elements
> increase element life?
>
> We do 58 firings inabout 6 months and changing them gets old.
>
> Any information on these questions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Richard Schenz
> Tucson, AZ USA
The Kiln Guy on sat 10 jan 98
> After 58 firings to cone 04 and cone 5, the computer kicks out with an
> "ERR1" which means that the temperature is rising less than 20 degrees
per
> hour. (cone 5 firing) We have taken that error to mean that the elements
> need to be replaced and that usually cures the problem.
>
> The question is, is 58 firings a reasonable element life?
>
For cone 04-5 firings the answer is definately, No!
Current loss on elements is inevitable - however, some of the newer wire
types will
lose less current.
Faulty relays, burnt connections, ect..., as well as a low "temperature
deviation" setting in the control can also cause "ERR1" to be displayed.
Chris @ Euclid's Kilns and Elements
1-800-296-5456
Web Site: http://www.euclids.com
E-Mail: mail@euclids.com
Linda Blossom on sat 10 jan 98
58 firings is not a reasonable amount of firings - I have over 90 on my
elements. All of these to cone 6 and 17-20 hours each. The error 1 is not
about elements. You could have a heavy refractory load and the lid cracked
to let gasses out. If this is in the first hour of firing while you try to
get to about 100 C, then close the lid to give it a chance to get started.
Also, call Skutt, I remember some problem with my controller that required
it to be replaced - but this was a couple of years ago and I don't remember
what it was exactly although I do remember getting an error-1. Also it was
a problem that had been solved in later controllers and mine was just made
before whatever the modification was. Also, probably not a problem in your
area is that skutt programs do not work at about 5C or below when the
controller is set for centigrade. The kiln has to be heated with degrees F
and then switched over when the temperature is up a bit.
Linda Blossom
2366 Slaterville Rd.
Ithaca, NY 14850
6075397912
www.artscape.com
blossom@lightlink.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Dick & Gwen Schenz
To: Multiple recipients of list CLAYART
Date: Friday, January 09, 1998 10:57 AM
Subject: Electric Kiln Element Life
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Greeting Clayarters:
Another question from a lurker.
Our Sun City Tucson clay club has a Skutt Km 1027 kiln with a KilnMaster
computer controller. It is powered with 208 volts and has the propper
elements installed. Also, a downdraft "Envirovent" is installed and used.
We use the default firing profiles.
After 58 firings to cone 04 and cone 5, the computer kicks out with an
"ERR1" which means that the temperature is rising less than 20 degrees per
hour. (cone 5 firing) We have taken that error to mean that the elements
need to be replaced and that usually cures the problem.
The question is, is 58 firings a reasonable element life?
I have been told that it is not. Also that the vent should be shut off for
the cooldown. (Dosen't seem reasonable to me)
Another question. would spraying the interior of the kiln and elements
increase element life?
We do 58 firings inabout 6 months and changing them gets old.
Any information on these questions would be greatly appreciated.
Richard Schenz
Tucson, AZ USA
DONPREY on sat 10 jan 98
Richard,
58 firings is way below what I would expect for the useful lifetime of the
elements. I would be more concerned about the lifetime (reliability) of the
programmer (controller). Myself, I would not buy a kiln with a controller.
That unit vastly decreases the reliability of the kiln and no one is likely to
know just how much. They are expensive to troubleshoot and fix. Of course,
when things are working they are great, but for me it all comes down to
reliability. By the way, I worked for years as a quality control engineer for
film processing equipment, so you can tell where I am coming from.
Turning off the kiln vent at the completion of the firing allows for a slower
cool down cycle. Most glazes appreciate that.
Don Prey in Oregon
Greg Skipper on sat 10 jan 98
The instruction book that came with my Skutt KM1027 gave an example of a ramp
program that you could use to look at the elements and see if any specific
ones are out. Thus you wouldn't have to replace any but the ones that are
defective. My book also says that the thermocouple can go out after 50-100
firings. This is especially true if you have the older ceramic TC.
Skutt is very helpful if you call them!
Good luck
Greg
Dick & Gwen Schenz wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Greeting Clayarters:
>
> Another question from a lurker.
> Our Sun City Tucson clay club has a Skutt Km 1027 kiln with a KilnMaster
> computer controller. It is powered with 208 volts and has the propper
> elements installed. Also, a downdraft "Envirovent" is installed and used.
> We use the default firing profiles.
>
> After 58 firings to cone 04 and cone 5, the computer kicks out with an
> "ERR1" which means that the temperature is rising less than 20 degrees per
> hour. (cone 5 firing) We have taken that error to mean that the elements
> need to be replaced and that usually cures the problem.
>
> The question is, is 58 firings a reasonable element life?
>
> I have been told that it is not. Also that the vent should be shut off for
> the cooldown. (Dosen't seem reasonable to me)
>
> Another question. would spraying the interior of the kiln and elements
> increase element life?
>
> We do 58 firings inabout 6 months and changing them gets old.
>
> Any information on these questions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Richard Schenz
> Tucson, AZ USA
Robert Katz on sun 11 jan 98
No, 58 firings in not the normal life span for elements. I bought my Skutt
over a year ago & fire frequently because it is small & at the same cones
you fire at. I have never changed an element. I do not have a computer on
mine, but I would say that I have fired my little kiln over 100 times
already without a problem.
Vicki Katz
Katz Creek Pottery
At 10:52 AM 1/9/98 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Greeting Clayarters:
>
>Another question from a lurker.
>Our Sun City Tucson clay club has a Skutt Km 1027 kiln with a KilnMaster
>computer controller. It is powered with 208 volts and has the propper
>elements installed. Also, a downdraft "Envirovent" is installed and used.
>We use the default firing profiles.
>
>After 58 firings to cone 04 and cone 5, the computer kicks out with an
>"ERR1" which means that the temperature is rising less than 20 degrees per
>hour. (cone 5 firing) We have taken that error to mean that the elements
>need to be replaced and that usually cures the problem.
>
>The question is, is 58 firings a reasonable element life?
>
>I have been told that it is not. Also that the vent should be shut off for
>the cooldown. (Dosen't seem reasonable to me)
>
>Another question. would spraying the interior of the kiln and elements
>increase element life?
>
>We do 58 firings inabout 6 months and changing them gets old.
>
>Any information on these questions would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Richard Schenz
>Tucson, AZ USA
>
Linda Blossom on sun 11 jan 98
I was looking at the post about the wire gauges being different in Canada
and the US and Elizabeth said that she had to change her amperage. Then I
noticed that Chris from Euclid's is online. Since I had recently purchased
elements for my 1227 skutt, I was wondering if Chris would comment on this.
I haven't changed elements yet so I haven't had any surprises - yet.
Linda Blossom
2366 Slaterville Rd.
Ithaca, NY 14850
6075397912
www.artscape.com
blossom@lightlink.com
-----Original Message-----
From: The Kiln Guy
To: Multiple recipients of list CLAYART
Date: Saturday, January 10, 1998 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: Electric Kiln Element Life
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>> After 58 firings to cone 04 and cone 5, the computer kicks out with an
>> "ERR1" which means that the temperature is rising less than 20 degrees
>per
>> hour. (cone 5 firing) We have taken that error to mean that the elements
>> need to be replaced and that usually cures the problem.
>>
>> The question is, is 58 firings a reasonable element life?
>>
>
>For cone 04-5 firings the answer is definately, No!
>Current loss on elements is inevitable - however, some of the newer wire
>types will
>lose less current.
>Faulty relays, burnt connections, ect..., as well as a low "temperature
>deviation" setting in the control can also cause "ERR1" to be displayed.
>
>Chris @ Euclid's Kilns and Elements
> 1-800-296-5456
>Web Site: http://www.euclids.com
>E-Mail: mail@euclids.com
>
Linda Blossom on sun 11 jan 98
I just had the thermocouple break and the message was not err 1. It was
FAIL. I went to the manual and it told me just what the message meant. I
would call Skutt about err1 messages before I bought a new thermocouple.
The new thermocouples are supposed to last several times longer than the old
ones.
Linda Blossom
2366 Slaterville Rd.
Ithaca, NY 14850
6075397912
www.artscape.com
blossom@lightlink.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Skipper
To: Multiple recipients of list CLAYART
Date: Saturday, January 10, 1998 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: Electric Kiln Element Life
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>The instruction book that came with my Skutt KM1027 gave an example of a
ramp
>program that you could use to look at the elements and see if any specific
>ones are out. Thus you wouldn't have to replace any but the ones that are
>defective. My book also says that the thermocouple can go out after 50-100
>firings. This is especially true if you have the older ceramic TC.
>Skutt is very helpful if you call them!
>Good luck
>Greg
>
>Dick & Gwen Schenz wrote:
>
>> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>> Greeting Clayarters:
>>
>> Another question from a lurker.
>> Our Sun City Tucson clay club has a Skutt Km 1027 kiln with a KilnMaster
>> computer controller. It is powered with 208 volts and has the propper
>> elements installed. Also, a downdraft "Envirovent" is installed and used.
>> We use the default firing profiles.
>>
>> After 58 firings to cone 04 and cone 5, the computer kicks out with an
>> "ERR1" which means that the temperature is rising less than 20 degrees
per
>> hour. (cone 5 firing) We have taken that error to mean that the elements
>> need to be replaced and that usually cures the problem.
>>
>> The question is, is 58 firings a reasonable element life?
>>
>> I have been told that it is not. Also that the vent should be shut off
for
>> the cooldown. (Dosen't seem reasonable to me)
>>
>> Another question. would spraying the interior of the kiln and elements
>> increase element life?
>>
>> We do 58 firings inabout 6 months and changing them gets old.
>>
>> Any information on these questions would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Richard Schenz
>> Tucson, AZ USA
>
Louis Katz on mon 12 jan 98
I have some questions about the kiln and firings, but my real suggestion is
to call Skutt and talk to thier technical support person. One of the
reasons I like Skutt is that when I call the support person I get real
answers presented in an understandable manner.
Do you fire with the peep hole plugs in?
Does your kiln have an extra ring installed?
Louis
The Kiln Guy on mon 12 jan 98
Hello,
Just to keep things straight - Their is no difference in wire gauges from
US versus Canada, when applied to element manufacturing for
pottery/ceramics. Piano wire, on the other hand, is not the same.
Regarding the increase of the breaker size for the Skutt 1027 - This is a
48 amp kiln & it should have a 60 amp breaker / fuses. The theory is that
you can safely use 80% of the rated capacity of the breaker / fuses.
The original elements for this kiln may have been weak & only drawing (at a
guess)
40-42 amps. Our replacement elements for this kiln will draw 48 amps (not
less).
I have also designed some hotter elements for this model kiln for people
who want to fire faster, however, I always recommend to use a compatable
breaker.
Chris @ Euclid's Kilns and Elements
1-800-296-5456
Web Site: http://www.euclids.com
E-Mail: mail@euclids.com
Elizabeth A. Ringus on tue 13 jan 98
Chris, when I spoke to you this past June on ordering my skutt replacement
elements you told me that your elements were a different gage than the ones
factory installed by skutt. In fact, I remember that your sales pitch on how
your wires were heavier and would last longer than the originals - that's what
sold me! And yes the fit was a bit snugger, getting them into the soft brick
channels, which made installing them a challenge. As far as the circuit
breaker change goes in my case, my kiln didn't come with the manual because it
was being printed (according to my distributor) I eventually got one - almost
a year after purchase. My electrician saw the 48 amp listing on the side of
the kiln and installed a 50 amp breaker - since it was a designated breaker, he
believed it would suffice, and it did for 3 years without problem until I got
the new elements from Euclid's. You probably don't remember my panicked phone
call to you about the err-1 message and incomplete firing at cone 6 ( I had
already completed the low fire set up successfully). I thought that I had
damaged an element during installation.
I even called Skutt and they gave me the directions on how to set the computer
to check for a bad element.
It was a call to my electrician that got the problem solved - and we never
checked the new manual to see if the breaker was the correct size all this
time!
It's a good thing you're on line now to straighten things out - why didn't you
give me this advise six months ago?!
Liz in SC
The Kiln Guy wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Hello,
> Just to keep things straight - Their is no difference in wire gauges from
> US versus Canada, when applied to element manufacturing for
> pottery/ceramics. Piano wire, on the other hand, is not the same.
> Regarding the increase of the breaker size for the Skutt 1027 - This is a
> 48 amp kiln & it should have a 60 amp breaker / fuses. The theory is that
> you can safely use 80% of the rated capacity of the breaker / fuses.
> The original elements for this kiln may have been weak & only drawing (at a
> guess)
> 40-42 amps. Our replacement elements for this kiln will draw 48 amps (not
> less).
> I have also designed some hotter elements for this model kiln for people
> who want to fire faster, however, I always recommend to use a compatable
> breaker.
>
> Chris @ Euclid's Kilns and Elements
> 1-800-296-5456
> Web Site: http://www.euclids.com
> E-Mail: mail@euclids.com
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