terri roy on sun 5 dec 10
Hi=3DA0 =3D0Ahas anyone tried this little gizmo to spray on glaze?=3DA0 I'm=
think=3D
ing of ordering =3D0Ait, but would like some input before I do.=3D0A=3D0Aht=
tp://w=3D
ww.myperfectcolor.com/Crown-Spra-Tool-Spraygun-Kit-p/mpc6299808209.htm=3D0A=
=3D
=3D0AThanks!
Steve Mills on mon 6 dec 10
It may seem cheap, but I suspect the propellant can has a pretty short life=
,
so could wind up costing a lot in relacements.
Also the seller seems to be careful not to mention WHAT the propellant is!!=
!
CFC's are very environmentally unfriendly, and the usual alternative is
often a highly inflammable gas.
I'd give it a miss!
Steve M
On 6 December 2010 00:42, terri roy wrote:
> Hi
> has anyone tried this little gizmo to spray on glaze? I'm thinking of
> ordering
> it, but would like some input before I do.
>
>
> http://www.myperfectcolor.com/Crown-Spra-Tool-Spraygun-Kit-p/mpc629980820=
9.htm
>
> Thanks!
>
C Sullivan on mon 6 dec 10
At the risk of sounding perfectly inane -- because i've forgotten the name
of the product -- have been hearing lately about an electric machine which
refills oxygen in ( small ?) tanks and since many sprayers are powered by
compressed oxygen, i wondered if this would be a viable method to use with =
a
sprayer instread of having to have a compressor ???
Anyone have any ideas on the practicality of this ?
Chae
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 1:42 AM, Steve Mills
wrote:
> It may seem cheap, but I suspect the propellant can has a pretty short
> life,
> so could wind up costing a lot in relacements.
> Also the seller seems to be careful not to mention WHAT the propellant
> is!!!
> CFC's are very environmentally unfriendly, and the usual alternative is
> often a highly inflammable gas.
>
> I'd give it a miss!
>
> Steve M
>
> On 6 December 2010 00:42, terri roy wrote:
>
> > Hi
> > has anyone tried this little gizmo to spray on glaze? I'm thinking of
> > ordering
> > it, but would like some input before I do.
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.myperfectcolor.com/Crown-Spra-Tool-Spraygun-Kit-p/mpc629980820=
9.htm
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
>
Larry Andre on mon 6 dec 10
?Sprayers, the following link is for a syphon sprayer used for very thick
paint in the radiator business, it works well for glaze, although it does
require a compressor. The sprayer connects to the compressor and the tube
from the bottom goes into the glaze, as the air passes over the tube it
sucks up the glaze, so there is no orifice to plug up. Larry
http://www.allradiator.com/catalog/supply/page13.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Mills
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 1:42 AM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: glaze sprayer?
It may seem cheap, but I suspect the propellant can has a pretty short life=
,
so could wind up costing a lot in relacements.
Also the seller seems to be careful not to mention WHAT the propellant is!!=
!
CFC's are very environmentally unfriendly, and the usual alternative is
often a highly inflammable gas.
I'd give it a miss!
Steve M
On 6 December 2010 00:42, terri roy wrote:
> Hi
> has anyone tried this little gizmo to spray on glaze? I'm thinking of
> ordering
> it, but would like some input before I do.
>
>
> http://www.myperfectcolor.com/Crown-Spra-Tool-Spraygun-Kit-p/mpc629980820=
9.htm
>
> Thanks!
>
Snail Scott on mon 6 dec 10
On Dec 6, 2010, at 11:01 AM, C Sullivan wrote:
> ... have been hearing lately about an electric machine which
> refills oxygen in ( small ?) tanks and since many sprayers are
> powered by
> compressed oxygen...
Not compressed oxygen (that'd be pricey, and
a bit hazardous without care), but compressed
AIR. Preval is one of the better-known brands
which sells an air canister which attaches to
their sprayer. It works OK. I haven't heard of
compressors sold just to refill canisters, but I
would rather get a regular compressor and just
use that to run my sprayer. A small compressor
which will drive a sprayer is not too pricey. Still,
I suppose the canned-air sprayers are a handy
thing, especially if you lack a space for a real
compressor, have noise issues, etc.
-Snail
>
> Anyone have any ideas on the practicality of this ?
> Chae
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 1:42 AM, Steve Mills
> wrote:
>
>> It may seem cheap, but I suspect the propellant can has a pretty
>> short
>> life,
>> so could wind up costing a lot in relacements.
>> Also the seller seems to be careful not to mention WHAT the
>> propellant
>> is!!!
>> CFC's are very environmentally unfriendly, and the usual
>> alternative is
>> often a highly inflammable gas.
>>
>> I'd give it a miss!
>>
>> Steve M
>>
>> On 6 December 2010 00:42, terri roy wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>> has anyone tried this little gizmo to spray on glaze? I'm
>>> thinking of
>>> ordering
>>> it, but would like some input before I do.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.myperfectcolor.com/Crown-Spra-Tool-Spraygun-Kit-p/mpc62998082=
09.htm
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>
C Sullivan on mon 6 dec 10
Hmmmm . . . i'll bet Snail's right. I'm mixing apples and oranges. The
electric regenerator replaces oxygen for folks with copd (and it didn't see=
m
to be too spendy) but a compressor produces air. My mind tried to improvis=
e
and relate one process to another.
Sorry about that !
Chae
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 10:33 AM, Snail Scott wro=
te:
> On Dec 6, 2010, at 11:01 AM, C Sullivan wrote:
>
>> ... have been hearing lately about an electric machine which
>>
>> refills oxygen in ( small ?) tanks and since many sprayers are
>> powered by
>> compressed oxygen
>>
>
>
> Not compressed oxygen (that'd be pricey, and
> a bit hazardous without care), but compressed
> AIR. Preval is one of the better-known brands
> which sells an air canister which attaches to
> their sprayer. It works OK. I haven't heard of
> compressors sold just to refill canisters, but I
> would rather get a regular compressor and just
> use that to run my sprayer. A small compressor
> which will drive a sprayer is not too pricey. Still,
> I suppose the canned-air sprayers are a handy
> thing, especially if you lack a space for a real
> compressor, have noise issues, etc.
>
> -Snail
>
>
>
>
>
>> Anyone have any ideas on the practicality of this ?
>> Chae
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 1:42 AM, Steve Mills
>> wrote:
>>
>> It may seem cheap, but I suspect the propellant can has a pretty
>>> short
>>> life,
>>> so could wind up costing a lot in relacements.
>>> Also the seller seems to be careful not to mention WHAT the
>>> propellant
>>> is!!!
>>> CFC's are very environmentally unfriendly, and the usual
>>> alternative is
>>> often a highly inflammable gas.
>>>
>>> I'd give it a miss!
>>>
>>> Steve M
>>>
>>> On 6 December 2010 00:42, terri roy wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>> has anyone tried this little gizmo to spray on glaze? I'm
>>>> thinking of
>>>> ordering
>>>> it, but would like some input before I do.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.myperfectcolor.com/Crown-Spra-Tool-Spraygun-Kit-p/mpc6299808=
209.htm
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
John Rodgers on mon 6 dec 10
I have this Chicago Tools sprayer I got from Harbor Freight . It's
several years old and still runs great. They still sell this unit, and
it is now $74.99 - $20 less than what I paid for it some years back.
Great sprayer for the price. I recommend it. The one thing I would
suggest should you buy this one - see if you can get an extra spray gun
with tank or at least some extra spray tanks. That way it's easy to work
multiple colors of glazes at one time, just swapping out between
containers of glaze.
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=3D&q=3Dturbine+s=
prayer+compressor
John
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
On 12/5/2010 6:42 PM, terri roy wrote:
> Hi
> has anyone tried this little gizmo to spray on glaze? I'm thinking of or=
dering
> it, but would like some input before I do.
>
> http://www.myperfectcolor.com/Crown-Spra-Tool-Spraygun-Kit-p/mpc629980820=
9.htm
>
> Thanks!
>
>
Fred Parker on tue 7 dec 10
For what it's worth, I also have this sprayer and have been very satisfie=
=3D
d
with it. In fact, I just bought another one "just in case" they disconti=
=3D
nue
this product. It needs no compressor, comes with three sizes of spray ca=
=3D
ps
and fluid needles and is very tough, durable and easy to clean. For the =
=3D
$$$
I don't think you can beat it.
My only criticism of this setup is the difficulty/impossibility to get sp=
=3D
are
parts. The packing around the fluid needle started leaking after a coupl=
=3D
e
of years. I oiled it and tightened it several times to remedy the proble=
=3D
m.
Finally ordered replacement parts from Harbor Freight. A year later the=
=3D
y
refunded my $$$ because they couldn't get them.
Fred Parker
On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 15:15:29 -0600, John Rodgers wrote:=
=3D
> I have this Chicago Tools sprayer I got from Harbor Freight . It's
>several years old and still runs great. They still sell this unit, and
>it is now $74.99 - $20 less than what I paid for it some years back.
>Great sprayer for the price. I recommend it. The one thing I would
>suggest should you buy this one - see if you can get an extra spray gun
>with tank or at least some extra spray tanks. That way it's easy to work=
=3D
>multiple colors of glazes at one time, just swapping out between
>containers of glaze.
>
>http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=3D3D&q=3D3Dtu=
=3D
rbine+sprayer+compressor
Vince Pitelka on tue 7 dec 10
John Rogers wrote about the Harbor Freight HVLP turbine spray system at:
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=3D&q=3Dturbine+s=
praye
r+compressor
Fred Parker responded:
For what it's worth, I also have this sprayer and have been very satisfied
with it. In fact, I just bought another one "just in case" they discontinu=
e
this product. It needs no compressor, comes with three sizes of spray caps
and fluid needles and is very tough, durable and easy to clean. For the $$=
$
I don't think you can beat it."
------------------------------------
I agree regarding this particular Harbor Freight "Chicago Electric" tool.
Normally I advise avoiding all Chicago Electric tools from Harbor Freight.
They are made to look like industrial tools on the outside, but inside they
are usually pure crap. The Chicago Electric HVLP turbine spray system seem=
s
to be an anomaly, and I have heard nothing but good things about it when
used for glaze spraying. For anyone who already has a compressor, I'd still
recommend the Tool Force gravity feed HVLP conversion gun available for $35
from amazon.com, but for those who do not have a compressor, the Chicago
Electric HVLP turbine system seems a great solution. Just be prepared for
what Fred experienced. If the thing breaks or the seals wear out, you are
on your own and will have to find off-the-shelf parts in your local hardwar=
e
or auto parts store.
The credo when entering Harbor Freight is "buyer beware." You can find som=
e
great stuff there, but don't be suckered into buying junk. The sad reality
is that someone had to take a chance on this HVLP turbine system in order
for us to find out that it works so well. There might be other Chicago
Electric tools that are worthwhile, but I have heard too many horror storie=
s
from too many people about Chicago Electric saws, hammer-drills, grinders,
etc.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Larry Kruzan on tue 7 dec 10
<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>
The credo when entering Harbor Freight is "buyer beware." You can find som=
e
great stuff there, but don't be suckered into buying junk. The sad reality
is that someone had to take a chance on this HVLP turbine system in order
for us to find out that it works so well. There might be other Chicago
Electric tools that are worthwhile, but I have heard too many horror storie=
s
from too many people about Chicago Electric saws, hammer-drills, grinders,
etc.
- Vince
<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>
Hi Vince and all,
One "Chicago Electric" tool I bought 5 years ago that is still going strong
is their Brick Saw, Item #95385 which is one tough tool. Not only have I
used it to build several kilns (the reason I bought it), and loan to friend=
s
for their kilns - my neighbors at the store, Willett's Winery, have used it
cut the bricks for three, multi thousand sq. ft. patio areas.
I always buy the HF extended warranty on any power tools and never buy thei=
r
power tools for any job I need to make a living from - they are just not
that dependable - but they are fine for occasional use or hobbyist. In the
case of my kiln, I needed to cut 20 bricks and the rental place in town
wanted $75 a day to rent one - HF brick saw cost $249 on sale plus warranty=
,
$15 as I recall. I knew I'd be building more than one kiln, and wifey wante=
d
ceramic tile in the kitchen - no brainer. Its been good for 5 kilns, the
kitchen and the winery - cheap.
Larry Kruzan
Lost Creek Pottery
www.lostcreekpottery.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
(Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.16460)
http://www.pctools.com/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Joseph Herbert on tue 7 dec 10
Hello,
Since the discovery that CFCs are not so innocuous, after all, the
propellant for a spray can will often be either butane or propane. Both ar=
e
relatively cheap and unlikely to interact adversely with the product. Ther=
e
is that fire hazard, however. Usually the manufacturer states what the
propellant is and will give admonitions about ventilation when using the
product. However, a careless user who uses a spray can (or several cans) i=
n
areas where heavier-than-air gasses could collect may be in for an
unpleasant surprise.
Be careful if you end up using more than one can of a spray product,
especially in a not-too-well-ventilated area.
Joe
Joseph Herbert
Training Developer
John Rodgers on tue 7 dec 10
Vince,
I'm with you. You do have to be very careful of tools bought at HB. I
usually only buy them after getting recommendations on a particular tool
from those who have had positive experience with them. Such was the case
with the Turbine Sprayer By Chicago Electric Tools. This tool came well
recommended by a couple of people on Clayart several years ago. On the
strength of it I went and bought one. I have been very happy with it and
it is still running strong. How much longer - who knows. And I agree,
getting parts when it does wear out may be very problematic. But if one
needs a sprayer, has a limited budget, all things being equal, this
sprayer is a good one, and should give good service until one can afford
something in a different class.
One other thing - the top loading HVLP hand held guns have shown
themselves to be very good and they hold up well. They do however,
require a separate compressor and hose. I used one of the Harbor Freight
HVLP guns extensively in a factory environment a few years ago, and it
worked fabulously well over time. A big trick was - keep that sucker
clean!!! Wash and blow out after use, otherwise the brass parts tended
to corrode. But that is a use and maintenance issue - not a tool quality
issue.
Regards,
John
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
On 12/7/2010 7:00 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> John Rogers wrote about the Harbor Freight HVLP turbine spray system at:
> http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=3D&q=3Dturbine=
+spraye
> r+compressor
>
> Fred Parker responded:
> For what it's worth, I also have this sprayer and have been very satisfie=
d
> with it. In fact, I just bought another one "just in case" they disconti=
nue
> this product. It needs no compressor, comes with three sizes of spray ca=
ps
> and fluid needles and is very tough, durable and easy to clean. For the =
$$$
> I don't think you can beat it."
>
> ------------------------------------
> I agree regarding this particular Harbor Freight "Chicago Electric" tool.
> Normally I advise avoiding all Chicago Electric tools from Harbor Freight=
.
> They are made to look like industrial tools on the outside, but inside th=
ey
> are usually pure crap. The Chicago Electric HVLP turbine spray system se=
ems
> to be an anomaly, and I have heard nothing but good things about it when
> used for glaze spraying. For anyone who already has a compressor, I'd sti=
ll
> recommend the Tool Force gravity feed HVLP conversion gun available for $=
35
> from amazon.com, but for those who do not have a compressor, the Chicago
> Electric HVLP turbine system seems a great solution. Just be prepared fo=
r
> what Fred experienced. If the thing breaks or the seals wear out, you ar=
e
> on your own and will have to find off-the-shelf parts in your local hardw=
are
> or auto parts store.
>
> The credo when entering Harbor Freight is "buyer beware." You can find s=
ome
> great stuff there, but don't be suckered into buying junk. The sad reali=
ty
> is that someone had to take a chance on this HVLP turbine system in order
> for us to find out that it works so well. There might be other Chicago
> Electric tools that are worthwhile, but I have heard too many horror stor=
ies
> from too many people about Chicago Electric saws, hammer-drills, grinders=
,
> etc.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>
>
Vince Pitelka on wed 8 dec 10
Larry Kruzan wrote:
"One "Chicago Electric" tool I bought 5 years ago that is still going stron=
g
is their Brick Saw, Item #95385 which is one tough tool. Not only have I
used it to build several kilns (the reason I bought it), and loan to friend=
s
for their kilns - my neighbors at the store, Willett's Winery, have used it
cut the bricks for three, multi thousand sq. ft. patio areas."
Hi Larry -
It sounds like you lucked out and got a good one. "Chicago Electric" is
just a brand invented by Harbor Freight. As you probably know, "Chicago
Pneumatic" is a highly-respected brand of quality air tools. "Milwaukee
Electric" is a highly-respected brand of quality electric tools. Harbor
Freight just picked the first word from the first and the second word from
the second and put them together, trusting that a lot of people would say
"Hmmm, I've heard of that before and I think it's a high-quality brand."
It's pretty clever, but completely deceptive.
There is no "Chicago Electric" company in Chicago or China or India. Harbo=
r
Freight contracts with factories in China, India, Pakistan, Korea, etc., to
manufacture tools that are branded "Chicago Electric," but the quality
control is dismal. In some cases the products are high-quality, like your
brick saw, and in some cases they are not.
Many years ago I worked as a mechanic and welder for the City of Arcata, an=
d
I had to furnish all of my own tools. I started out with Craftsman, but
moved up to Proto and Snap-On. It didn't take me long to realize that
investment in the best tools is never a waste of money, and it pays you bac=
k
for the life of the tool. 35 years later I still have the big rollaway
toolbox filled with mechanics tools, and they are still in perfect
condition. During that same interval in the 70s I also bought some
high-quality power tools including a Makita metal cutoff saw, a Makita 4.5"
angle grinder, a Sioux 7" angle grinder, and a worm-drive Skilsaw, and all
of them are still in perfect condition.
If you buy cheap tools, now and then you will luck out and get a good one
that lasts, like your brick saw or Fred Parker's angle grinder. If you buy
quality tools and take good care of them, they will always last except in
the very rare cases of a lemon, which are unavoidable no matter how much yo=
u
spend for tools.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Fred Parker on wed 8 dec 10
In general I agree with Vince on this. Caveat emptor! However, those
little anomalies do come along. I doubt they are predictable -- just tri=
=3D
al
and error. Back when I taught some courses on metal sculpture I had a ki=
=3D
nd
of standing bet with my students that nobody could find a reasonably
functional 4" grinder that was cheaper than mine. I found one at Harbor
Freight for something like $12. It worked perfectly well, but when it di=
=3D
d
it made sounds that only come from machines in great agony. Nobody ever
found a better deal, and that tortured grinder is still going today. Bli=
=3D
nd
luck, I say...
Fred Parker
On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 19:00:23 -0600, Vince Pitelka wr=
=3D
ote:
>John Rogers wrote about the Harbor Freight HVLP turbine spray system at:=
=3D
>http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=3D3D&q=3D3Dtu=
=3D
rbine+spraye
>r+compressor
>
>Fred Parker responded:
>For what it's worth, I also have this sprayer and have been very satisfi=
=3D
ed
>with it. In fact, I just bought another one "just in case" they discont=
=3D
inue
>this product. It needs no compressor, comes with three sizes of spray c=
=3D
aps
>and fluid needles and is very tough, durable and easy to clean. For the=
=3D
$$$
>I don't think you can beat it."
>
>------------------------------------
>I agree regarding this particular Harbor Freight "Chicago Electric" tool=
=3D
.
>Normally I advise avoiding all Chicago Electric tools from Harbor Freigh=
=3D
t.
>They are made to look like industrial tools on the outside, but inside t=
=3D
hey
>are usually pure crap.
SNIP
steve graber on thu 9 dec 10
a little heads up:=3DA0 i interviewed with snap on tools about 6 months ago=
.=3D
=3DA0 it =3D0Aseems they had outsourced all their product lines to china, a=
nd s=3D
aw their =3D0Aquality drop.=3DA0 ~ now=3DA0they are in an effort to return =
many o=3D
f the product lines =3D0Aback to being made in usa.=3DA0 except their old e=
ngin=3D
eering and assembly people and =3D0Aold useful manufacturing equipment are =
al=3D
l gone.=3DA0 while i would have liked to =3D0Awork for them - helping get p=
rodu=3D
cts back on line - they didn't want me.=3DA0 i was =3D0Amade aware that i w=
ould=3D
be the "most senior engineer" in their office.=3DA0 "we just =3D0Adon't se=
e se=3D
nior engineers anymore". =3DA0 a position that doesn't pay more, just a =3D=
0Afa=3D
ct of being the main old fart, and i was given the "sorry letter" later in =
=3D
the =3D0Amail.=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0A=3D0Afinding a true made in usa company produ=
ct can be =3D
difficult.=3DA0 and they could now =3D0Aeven be on the rebound so watch it!=
=3DA0 =3D
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3DA0Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc=3D0AClaremont, Cali=
fornia USA=3D
=3D0AThe Steve Tool - for awesome texture on pots! (made in Claremont, CA U=
SA=3D
)=3D0Awww.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com =3D0A=3D0A=3D0AOn Lag=
una Clay=3D
's website=3D0Ahttp://www.lagunaclay.com/blogs/ =3D0A=3D0A> =3D0A> Many yea=
rs ago I=3D
worked as a mechanic and welder for the City of Arcata, and=3D0A> I had to=
f=3D
urnish all of my own tools.=3DA0 I started out with Craftsman, but=3D0A> mo=
ved =3D
up to Proto and Snap-On.=3DA0 It didn't take me long to realize that=3D0A> =
inve=3D
stment in the best tools is never a waste of money, and it pays you back=3D=
0A=3D
> for the life of the tool.=3DA0 35 years later I still have the big rollaw=
ay=3D
=3D0A> toolbox filled with mechanics tools, and they are still in perfect=
=3D0A>=3D
condition.=3DA0 During that same interval in the 70s I also bought some=3D=
0A> =3D
high-quality power tools including a Makita metal cutoff saw, a Makita 4.5"=
=3D
=3D0A> angle grinder, a Sioux 7" angle grinder, and a worm-drive Skilsaw, a=
nd=3D
all=3D0A> of them are still in perfect condition.=3D0A> =3D0A> If you buy =
cheap =3D
tools, now and then you will luck out and get a good one=3D0A> that lasts, =
li=3D
ke your brick saw or Fred Parker's angle grinder.=3DA0 If you buy=3D0A> qua=
lity=3D
tools and take good care of them, they will always last except in=3D0A> th=
e =3D
very rare cases of a lemon, which are unavoidable no matter how much you=3D=
0A=3D
> spend for tools.=3D0A> - Vince=3D0A> =3D0A> Vince Pitelka=3D0A> Appalachi=
an Cente=3D
r for Craft=3D0A> Tennessee Tech University=3D0A> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpit=
elka=3D
@tntech.edu=3D0A> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka=3D0A> =3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
| |
|
