Johanna San Inocencio on wed 5 jan 11
How many studio potters begin with a budget that can afford a $25,000 =3D
kiln? I know i won't be able to. Thats why I am grateful for the =3D
knowledge of how to build a kiln and how to fire a kiln manually. =3D
Besides, when it breaks down, I will know it inside and out. It would be =
=3D
like learning how to drive with a fully automatic car and never learning =
=3D
how to drive a stick. Sure you might get from place to place, but your =3D
options are much more limited, your car will cost more to buy and repair =
=3D
and that stick is a lot more interesting of a drive.
Johanna
On Jan 5, 2011, at 6:17 PM, jonathan byler wrote:
> Vince,
>=3D20
> I beg your pardon, but you sound a bit like a luddite here. There is
> a guy in the Netherlands who sells fully automated kilns for $25,000.
> I have yet to see one from bailey or geil that controls the air and
> gas setting, unless they are reselling his. Anyway, I say luddite
> because you are scoffing at this technology as if it takes something
> away, somehow ruins the act of being a potter, when in fact the Blaauw
> kilns look like they actually give potters MORE control and better
> product for significantly less cost per firing. from my understanding
> you can program the thing to go up and down in temperature however you
> like and control the exact level of reduction/oxidation in the kiln
> atmosphere throughout the whole firing.
>=3D20
> I can't find a downside to this, except that if civilization ends and
> we need to make bricks and kilns from scratch with no fancy electronic
> controls that people won't be as familiar with manually controlling
> the kiln. The fully automated kilns need programming to fire how you
> want it to, but the results are then repeatable - over and over. no
> more worry about whether the firing will turn out because someone
> forgot to change a damper setting at the wrong time. so what exactly
> is the problem? there is no control relinquished, just as with the
> electric programmable kilns, I relinquish NO control. I can decide
> exactly when and how the kiln ramps up and down in temperature (within
> reason) to get the results that I want. but I don't have to sit and
> baby the thing all the way through.
>=3D20
> just think of all the work you could be making instead of wasting time
> futzing with the klin. granted some of us, myself included, love
> futzing with the kiln, so maybe there is an argument for it. but the
> guy from Blaauw was telling me his kilns used about 10% of the gas per
> firing for an equivalent sized kiln built in the tradtional ways and
> manually operated. saving 90% on the gas bill and having more time to
> work or relax or whatever seems like a win-win situation. and unless
> you are given all the bits and pieces, even a modest gas kiln of any
> usable size is going to cost quite a bit of money. and time to build,
> which is also money.
>=3D20
> some people will take the time to learn to fire an automated kiln to
> get the results they want. others will simply fire it and take the
> results that they get. not much different than the many people who
> never learn how to fire a manually operated gas kiln. With automated
> and efficient gas kilns, for once I am more than glad to embrace the
> future.
>=3D20
> On Jan 5, 2011, at 5:02 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
>=3D20
>> L. Turner wrote:
>> "What puzzles me is why it has taken over 50 years for the studio
>> potter to
>> even think such thoughts. Computer controlled fuel furnaces have =3D
been
>> around for more than 70 years. There has been one or two in every
>> house I
>> have ever lived in. Called water heaters and central furnaces.
>> Been doing
>> their job reliably in my grandmother's house since it was built in
>> 1920's.
>> Admittedly, the "computer" was more mechanical in the 20th century
>> than in
>> the 21st, but it was still an automated controller. I wonder if
>> explanation
>> is that the studio potter is more interested in preserving
>> techniques than
>> in making pots."
>>=3D20
>> Hi L. -
>> The way you phrase this is very condescending towards studio
>> potters, and
>> they don't deserve that. I think that you will agree that the
>> reasons are
>> pretty obvious. Potters HAVE been thinking of these things for as
>> long as
>> there have been potters, and they have found extraordinarily =3D
efficient
>> solutions. All potters who have been firing gas kilns for a while
>> know how
>> to control gas and air quite expertly, and by doing it manually,
>> they have
>> complete control over the results. That's one reason why they don't
>> have
>> automated, computerized kiln-control systems, but the other good
>> reason is
>> that they cannot afford it. Hot water heaters and home furnaces have
>> efficient automatic controls available relatively inexpensively
>> because they
>> are manufactured by the millions specifically for those
>> applications. Also,
>> for furnaces and water heaters, no automated air control is required
>> other
>> than a mechanical preset because they do not need to change back and
>> forth
>> between oxidation and reduction atmospheres. The kinds of controls
>> required
>> for a gas kiln are far more complex, and we are not a big-enough
>> market to
>> bring the price down to an affordable level. If you buy a $40,000
>> Geil or
>> Bailey kiln you can get fully automated, computerized controls, but
>> adapting
>> such a system to a home-built gas kiln using off-the-shelf
>> industrial parts
>> would be very complex and expensive. And my response is, why would
>> any
>> serious studio clay artist want to do that just to gain a little
>> convenience, when they would relinquish so much control? It just
>> takes more
>> control out of the potter's hands, and why would you want that? A
>> computerized electric kiln makes perfect sense because the progress
>> and
>> results of the firing are fairly predictable and repeatable. A
>> computerized
>> gas kiln makes less sense, because gas firings are far more variable
>> and
>> require a lot more tweaking as the firing progresses. And from my
>> own point
>> of view, I do not understand the motivation in some of the very big,
>> well-funded university ceramics programs where they have a kiln room
>> full of
>> $50,000 automated kilns, and the students learn nothing at all about
>> firing.
>>=3D20
>> - Vince
>>=3D20
>> Vince Pitelka
>> Appalachian Center for Craft
>> Tennessee Tech University
>> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
>> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
mel jacobson on wed 5 jan 11
one thing i have learned over years of firing fuel
kilns. no two kilns are alike.
and, every day is a different day.
wind, rain, snow, sleet, +90 and then -40F.
if you are using wood or other natural materials
that thought triples.
quality of wood, water content and how you
go about doing things that day, yes, things change.
industry has figured some of this out.
controlled air, controlled fuel.
computer directed firing. and constant
air pressure. it all makes a difference.
folks like craig in new london has a strong
sense of history and commitment to wood.
we admire that. anyone that has that
sort of commitment should be admired. but, with
that, there are many factors that can cause stress.
but, those that undertake that adventure, know already....it is not easy.
you will be seeing some wonderful new burner, air systems
coming along in the near future. they will stun you all.
totally controlled air and gas by computer model.
it will not be cheap, but it will change how you think
about fuel kilns. and, the saving in fuel will be astonishing.
public institutions will be first on the list to buy this technology.
it will be controversial, some will think we are taking the ability
to fire our own kiln away....but, like the computer controlled electric,
it is new, and will take time to be commonplace.
and, it will at some point be common.
mel
from: minnetonka, mn
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
new book: http://www.21stcenturykilns.com
alternate: melpots7575@gmail.com
L TURNER on wed 5 jan 11
Mel,
> you will be seeing some wonderful new burner, air systems
> coming along in the near future. they will stun you all.
> totally controlled air and gas by computer model.
>
What puzzles me is why it has taken over 50 years for the studio
potter to even think such thoughts. Computer controlled fuel furnaces
have been around for more than 70 years. There has been one or two in
every house I have ever lived in. Called water heaters and central
furnaces. Been doing their job reliably in my grandmother's house
since it was built in 1920's. Admittedly, the "computer" was more
mechanical in the 20th century than in the 21st, but it was still an
automated controller.
I wonder if explanation is that the studio potter is more interested
in preserving techniques than in making pots.
Regards,
L. Turner,
The Woodlands, TX
Vince Pitelka on wed 5 jan 11
L. Turner wrote:
"What puzzles me is why it has taken over 50 years for the studio potter to
even think such thoughts. Computer controlled fuel furnaces have been
around for more than 70 years. There has been one or two in every house I
have ever lived in. Called water heaters and central furnaces. Been doing
their job reliably in my grandmother's house since it was built in 1920's.
Admittedly, the "computer" was more mechanical in the 20th century than in
the 21st, but it was still an automated controller. I wonder if explanation
is that the studio potter is more interested in preserving techniques than
in making pots."
Hi L. -
The way you phrase this is very condescending towards studio potters, and
they don't deserve that. I think that you will agree that the reasons are
pretty obvious. Potters HAVE been thinking of these things for as long as
there have been potters, and they have found extraordinarily efficient
solutions. All potters who have been firing gas kilns for a while know how
to control gas and air quite expertly, and by doing it manually, they have
complete control over the results. That's one reason why they don't have
automated, computerized kiln-control systems, but the other good reason is
that they cannot afford it. Hot water heaters and home furnaces have
efficient automatic controls available relatively inexpensively because the=
y
are manufactured by the millions specifically for those applications. Also=
,
for furnaces and water heaters, no automated air control is required other
than a mechanical preset because they do not need to change back and forth
between oxidation and reduction atmospheres. The kinds of controls require=
d
for a gas kiln are far more complex, and we are not a big-enough market to
bring the price down to an affordable level. If you buy a $40,000 Geil or
Bailey kiln you can get fully automated, computerized controls, but adaptin=
g
such a system to a home-built gas kiln using off-the-shelf industrial parts
would be very complex and expensive. And my response is, why would any
serious studio clay artist want to do that just to gain a little
convenience, when they would relinquish so much control? It just takes mor=
e
control out of the potter's hands, and why would you want that? A
computerized electric kiln makes perfect sense because the progress and
results of the firing are fairly predictable and repeatable. A computerize=
d
gas kiln makes less sense, because gas firings are far more variable and
require a lot more tweaking as the firing progresses. And from my own poin=
t
of view, I do not understand the motivation in some of the very big,
well-funded university ceramics programs where they have a kiln room full o=
f
$50,000 automated kilns, and the students learn nothing at all about firing=
.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
John Rodgers on wed 5 jan 11
I have four electric kilns - two very modern, totally computerized,
and two clunky old manual kilns. There is much to be said for the
computerized electrics. Set them up, turn them on, and let them do all
the work, start to finish. On the other hand, the manuals take a lot of
effort - watch the time, watch the rate, make sure the right cone is in
the kiln sitter, and on them both I must turn the switches in increments
to raise the temperatures - lots and lots of baby sitting. But there is
a lot to be said for those old kilns. "I" am in control. Not so much
with the computerized units. I would think it would be the same with
fuel fired kilns. While it's great that things are easier with the
modern kilns - everything being automated - there is a WHOLE LOT to be
said for being able to control the whole process ones self. I suspect
that if one is experienced in doing it all oneself, even to the point of
building ones own kilns, it give one an autonomy and understanding of
process that could not otherwise be had, and consequently one should be
a better potter for it. There is nothing quite like mastery of the
subject. Though I like my computerized electrics - I really appreciate
having the knowledge of how to do it every bit - step by step, myself -
if I have to. It gives me a security and freedom with my work that I
might not otherwise have.
John
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
On 1/5/2011 2:21 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
> one thing i have learned over years of firing fuel
> kilns. no two kilns are alike.
>
> and, every day is a different day.
>
> wind, rain, snow, sleet, +90 and then -40F.
>
> if you are using wood or other natural materials
> that thought triples.
>
> quality of wood, water content and how you
> go about doing things that day, yes, things change.
>
> industry has figured some of this out.
> controlled air, controlled fuel.
> computer directed firing. and constant
> air pressure. it all makes a difference.
>
> folks like craig in new london has a strong
> sense of history and commitment to wood.
> we admire that. anyone that has that
> sort of commitment should be admired. but, with
> that, there are many factors that can cause stress.
> but, those that undertake that adventure, know already....it is not easy.
>
> you will be seeing some wonderful new burner, air systems
> coming along in the near future. they will stun you all.
> totally controlled air and gas by computer model.
>
> it will not be cheap, but it will change how you think
> about fuel kilns. and, the saving in fuel will be astonishing.
> public institutions will be first on the list to buy this technology.
>
> it will be controversial, some will think we are taking the ability
> to fire our own kiln away....but, like the computer controlled electric,
> it is new, and will take time to be commonplace.
> and, it will at some point be common.
> mel
>
>
>
>
> from: minnetonka, mn
> website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
> clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
> new book: http://www.21stcenturykilns.com
> alternate: melpots7575@gmail.com
>
>
jonathan byler on wed 5 jan 11
Vince,
I beg your pardon, but you sound a bit like a luddite here. There is
a guy in the Netherlands who sells fully automated kilns for $25,000.
I have yet to see one from bailey or geil that controls the air and
gas setting, unless they are reselling his. Anyway, I say luddite
because you are scoffing at this technology as if it takes something
away, somehow ruins the act of being a potter, when in fact the Blaauw
kilns look like they actually give potters MORE control and better
product for significantly less cost per firing. from my understanding
you can program the thing to go up and down in temperature however you
like and control the exact level of reduction/oxidation in the kiln
atmosphere throughout the whole firing.
I can't find a downside to this, except that if civilization ends and
we need to make bricks and kilns from scratch with no fancy electronic
controls that people won't be as familiar with manually controlling
the kiln. The fully automated kilns need programming to fire how you
want it to, but the results are then repeatable - over and over. no
more worry about whether the firing will turn out because someone
forgot to change a damper setting at the wrong time. so what exactly
is the problem? there is no control relinquished, just as with the
electric programmable kilns, I relinquish NO control. I can decide
exactly when and how the kiln ramps up and down in temperature (within
reason) to get the results that I want. but I don't have to sit and
baby the thing all the way through.
just think of all the work you could be making instead of wasting time
futzing with the klin. granted some of us, myself included, love
futzing with the kiln, so maybe there is an argument for it. but the
guy from Blaauw was telling me his kilns used about 10% of the gas per
firing for an equivalent sized kiln built in the tradtional ways and
manually operated. saving 90% on the gas bill and having more time to
work or relax or whatever seems like a win-win situation. and unless
you are given all the bits and pieces, even a modest gas kiln of any
usable size is going to cost quite a bit of money. and time to build,
which is also money.
some people will take the time to learn to fire an automated kiln to
get the results they want. others will simply fire it and take the
results that they get. not much different than the many people who
never learn how to fire a manually operated gas kiln. With automated
and efficient gas kilns, for once I am more than glad to embrace the
future.
On Jan 5, 2011, at 5:02 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> L. Turner wrote:
> "What puzzles me is why it has taken over 50 years for the studio
> potter to
> even think such thoughts. Computer controlled fuel furnaces have been
> around for more than 70 years. There has been one or two in every
> house I
> have ever lived in. Called water heaters and central furnaces.
> Been doing
> their job reliably in my grandmother's house since it was built in
> 1920's.
> Admittedly, the "computer" was more mechanical in the 20th century
> than in
> the 21st, but it was still an automated controller. I wonder if
> explanation
> is that the studio potter is more interested in preserving
> techniques than
> in making pots."
>
> Hi L. -
> The way you phrase this is very condescending towards studio
> potters, and
> they don't deserve that. I think that you will agree that the
> reasons are
> pretty obvious. Potters HAVE been thinking of these things for as
> long as
> there have been potters, and they have found extraordinarily efficient
> solutions. All potters who have been firing gas kilns for a while
> know how
> to control gas and air quite expertly, and by doing it manually,
> they have
> complete control over the results. That's one reason why they don't
> have
> automated, computerized kiln-control systems, but the other good
> reason is
> that they cannot afford it. Hot water heaters and home furnaces have
> efficient automatic controls available relatively inexpensively
> because they
> are manufactured by the millions specifically for those
> applications. Also,
> for furnaces and water heaters, no automated air control is required
> other
> than a mechanical preset because they do not need to change back and
> forth
> between oxidation and reduction atmospheres. The kinds of controls
> required
> for a gas kiln are far more complex, and we are not a big-enough
> market to
> bring the price down to an affordable level. If you buy a $40,000
> Geil or
> Bailey kiln you can get fully automated, computerized controls, but
> adapting
> such a system to a home-built gas kiln using off-the-shelf
> industrial parts
> would be very complex and expensive. And my response is, why would
> any
> serious studio clay artist want to do that just to gain a little
> convenience, when they would relinquish so much control? It just
> takes more
> control out of the potter's hands, and why would you want that? A
> computerized electric kiln makes perfect sense because the progress
> and
> results of the firing are fairly predictable and repeatable. A
> computerized
> gas kiln makes less sense, because gas firings are far more variable
> and
> require a lot more tweaking as the firing progresses. And from my
> own point
> of view, I do not understand the motivation in some of the very big,
> well-funded university ceramics programs where they have a kiln room
> full of
> $50,000 automated kilns, and the students learn nothing at all about
> firing.
>
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Lee on wed 5 jan 11
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 6:17 PM, jonathan byler wrote:
> Vince,
>
> I beg your pardon, but you sound a bit like a luddite here. =3DA0There is
> a guy in the Netherlands who sells fully automated kilns for $25,000.
They have microwave/gas hybrid computerized kilns in Japan, but they
cost a bit more.
http://www.takasago-inc.co.jp/english/3products/c23n.html
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Vince Pitelka on wed 5 jan 11
Jonathan Byler wrote:
"I beg your pardon, but you sound a bit like a luddite here. There is a gu=
y
in the Netherlands who sells fully automated kilns for $25,000. I have yet
to see one from bailey or geil that controls the air and gas setting, unles=
s
they are reselling his. Anyway, I say luddite because you are scoffing at
this technology as if it takes something away, somehow ruins the act of
being a potter, when in fact the Blaauw kilns look like they actually give
potters MORE control and better product for significantly less cost per
firing. from my understanding you can program the thing to go up and down
in temperature however you like and control the exact level of
reduction/oxidation in the kiln atmosphere throughout the whole firing. I
can't find a downside to this, except that if civilization ends and we need
to make bricks and kilns from scratch with no fancy electronic controls tha=
t
people won't be as familiar with manually controlling the kiln. The fully
automated kilns need programming to fire how you want it to, but the result=
s
are then repeatable - over and over. No more worry about whether the firin=
g
will turn out because someone forgot to change a damper setting at the wron=
g
time. so what exactly is the problem? there is no control relinquished,
just as with the
electric programmable kilns, I relinquish NO control. I can decide exactly
when and how the kiln ramps up and down in temperature (within reason) to
get the results that I want. but I don't have to sit and baby the thing al=
l
the way through."
Hi Jonathan -
You don't need to beg my pardon, ever, and you know that I am not a luddite=
.
I am always interested in new technology, but I am also careful to avoid
giving credit to unproven technology, and the concept of completely
computerized kilns for the studio potter is unproven. I am an advocate of
the art of firing, and I am an advocate of the craftsperson controlling the
essential processes in her/his work. Do you know that you need to have
Blaauw technicians do all the repairs and maintenance on their kilns?
Bailey attempted to sell a system licensed by Blaauw, but the maintenance
and repair turned out to be way too much of a nightmare for the consumer an=
d
they gave up on that. Do you know that there are Blaauw kilns out there in
North America currently unusable because they are waiting for maintenance o=
r
repair from Blaauw? Sorry, but that does not cut it.
As the technology exists now, the results from a computerized gas kiln are
never reproducible except in industrial circumstances where you are talking
about industrially formulated materials, industrially monitored processes,
simplified industrial-designed glaze treatments, and half-million-dollar
computerized kilns. Don't overrate these devices. The currently-available
models are nowhere near being a substitute for the careful control of an
experienced studio potter, and I do not believe that you can contest that.
If you want the best results, you still need to control the kiln yourself.
You admit yourself that you enjoy "futzing around with the kiln," and I
think that is true of most serious studio potters. I love the process of
monitoring the kiln, and I am very productive in the studio while the kiln
is firing. It is no problem to go check it periodically, and I should be
getting up and moving around now and then anyway. Do I really need to spen=
d
an extra $15,000 to get a gas kiln that does this for me?
As we all know, there is no such thing as a lazy professional potter,
because no potter can survive if he/she is lazy. Most of us enjoy the
multitasking required when we are firing our kilns. The most successful
potters almost invariably love their devices and tools, and would rather
monitor a gas kiln and make the adjustments themselves rather than
relinquish control to a computerized system that does not accommodate the
myriad of variables that occur from one firing to the next. Show me an
affordable automated system that truly accommodates all those variables and
truly gives reproducible results, and I will promote it as an option for th=
e
rich potter.
I do not believe Blaauw's claims about gas savings. There is no good reaso=
n
why that would be true with the currently-available technology. Any potter
who constructs a well-built, well-insulated kiln and carefully monitors
her/his firings with an oxygen sensor can cut fuel costs, and there is no
logical reason why the automated system would be an improvement on that.
You are giving way too much credit to the automated system, and at this
point it is unproven and outside the budget of most studio potters.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Lee on thu 6 jan 11
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> reasons that are guiding your purchase. You were fortunate to find a use=
=3D
d
> one.
Vince,
Not only that, when I talked to Rob about getting basos and
pilots on the burners, he contacted Mike at Continental and we are
going to send them in to get them put on. I just have to get over
there and fill Mike in.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Arnold Howard on thu 6 jan 11
On 1/5/2011 4:13 PM, John Rodgers wrote:
> and on them both I must turn the switches in increments
> to raise the temperatures - lots and lots of baby sitting. But there is
> a lot to be said for those old kilns. "I" am in control.
---------
I learned a lot about photography from the old film cameras with shutter
speed and f-stop settings. As a teenager, I had estimate the exposure
settings on my Leica, because I didn't have a light meter. That
knowledge is useful today in shooting digital cameras.
It is the same with manual electric kilns. Learning to fire them is time
well spent, because that knowledge will assist you later when you have a
digital controller.
Buying an old manual kiln enables beginning potters with tight budgets
to do their own firings.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Lee on thu 6 jan 11
Ooops! I should have said, "my next woodkiln." I have two gas
kilns and a raku kiln I'll need first.
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Lee wrote:
> =3DA0Steve Mills new design would cost a lot less to build. Actually, les=
s
> than an electric. =3DA0 =3DA0I think it will be my next kiln. =3DA0 See h=
ere:
>
> http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs100.ash2/38336_453324069362=
=3D
_615269362_6178641_749252_n.jpg
>
>
>
> --
> =3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>
> =3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=
=3D97that is=3D
, "The
> land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
> within itself." -- John O'Donohue
>
--=3D20
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee on thu 6 jan 11
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Johanna San Inocencio
wrote:
> How many studio potters begin with a budget that can afford a $25,000 kil=
=3D
n?
My first one cost less than a gas kiln the same size would have cost
me, about $5,000.00
That is one of the reasons I built it.
Steve Mills new design would cost a lot less to build. Actually, less
than an electric. I think it will be my next kiln. See here:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs100.ash2/38336_453324069362_6=
=3D
15269362_6178641_749252_n.jpg
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee on thu 6 jan 11
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Arnold Howard wrot=
=3D
e:
>
> Buying an old manual kiln enables beginning potters with tight budgets
> to do their own firings.
The same can be said about the Olympic Torchbears that have
been dissed here lately. I am buying a used one to keep me rolling
while I save up my pennies to build a larger gas kiln. Frugality is
a virtue these days.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Vince Pitelka on thu 6 jan 11
Lee Love wrote:
"The same can be said about the Olympic Torchbears that have been dissed
here lately. I am buying a used one to keep me rolling while I save up m=
y
pennies to build a larger gas kiln. Frugality is a virtue these days.
Lee -
No one would disagree with you on your choice in this situation. Talk to
Michael McDowell about all the wonderful pots he produced with his gas
toploader before he built a bigger kiln. There has been some talk about
poor customer support from Olympic, but that's not going to be an issue wit=
h
a gas kiln because it is so simple. I am not very excited about those pipe
burners they use - just seems inefficient, and Marc Ward said he had
assisted a lot of people replacing them with MR-750 burners. But no one ca=
n
argue with the price of the Olympic torchbearers compared to what it takes
to buy or build a really high-quality frontloader gas kiln. I think that a
lot of the people who purchase the gas toploaders do so for exactly the sam=
e
reasons that are guiding your purchase. You were fortunate to find a used
one.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
C Sullivan on thu 6 jan 11
Hey! Olympic Torchbearers are a real challenge to learn how to fire
But
Their service dept is top notch and really wonderful to work with.
Both Mel and Michael Wendt can give excellent advice on firing them which
really helps.
And once you've figured out how to have successful firings . . . .
You feel sooo gooood !!!
Chae
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Lee Love wrote:
> "The same can be said about the Olympic Torchbears that have been dissed
> here lately. I am buying a used one to keep me rolling while I save up
> my
> pennies to build a larger gas kiln. Frugality is a virtue these days.
>
> Lee -
> No one would disagree with you on your choice in this situation. Talk to
> Michael McDowell about all the wonderful pots he produced with his gas
> toploader before he built a bigger kiln. There has been some talk about
> poor customer support from Olympic, but that's not going to be an issue
> with
> a gas kiln because it is so simple. I am not very excited about those pi=
pe
> burners they use - just seems inefficient, and Marc Ward said he had
> assisted a lot of people replacing them with MR-750 burners. But no one
> can
> argue with the price of the Olympic torchbearers compared to what it take=
s
> to buy or build a really high-quality frontloader gas kiln. I think that=
a
> lot of the people who purchase the gas toploaders do so for exactly the
> same
> reasons that are guiding your purchase. You were fortunate to find a use=
d
> one.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>
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