Lili Krakowski on fri 7 jan 11
Jonathan writes:
"[Vince]"...you sound a bit like a luddite here. .... I say luddite =3D
because you are scoffing at this technology as if it takes something
away, somehow ruins the act of being a potter" ...
Whenever anyone has reservations , or questions any technological =3D
change, people trot out the term "Luddite". Sorry. Wrong.
The Luddites were a small group of men who had worked out of =3D
their--actually miserable--homes, came from craft families, and had =3D
their pitiful livelihood taken away by the coming of weaving machines =3D
and the factory system. There are plenty of books about the coming of =3D
the factories...and the resistance to them--and to the liberties they =3D
took away with their insistence on specific hours and time schedules. =3D
The Luddites--like all the home industry craftsmen-- had accepted new =3D
and improved machines over the years. Many --not just Luddites--equated =
=3D
the factory system to slavery--it certainly was a good second. The =3D
Luddite and other rebellions had nothing to do with machines qua =3D
machines.
What is constantly being debated on ClayArt--and I assume the whole =3D
art/craft world--is how much prefabricated, mechanically controlled =3D
"input" there can be in a work, before it no longer is created in a =3D
meaningful way by the craftsman.
Just speaking clay. Is one a craftsman if one buys raw clay, or must =3D
one mine it? Is one a craftsman if one buys readymade clay bodies, or =3D
must one mix one's own. Ditto for glaze. Is one less of a craftsman =3D
for buying a kiln and just using it? Must one build it oneself? =3D20
And on and on.
Certainly it is quite wonderful if one can judge the flame's heat by =3D
color...but do cones take away one's craftsmanship? We now have =3D
electric kilns computer programmed etc..Does that lessen the craftsman's =
=3D
skill?
If there are fuelburners that also will be controlled and regulated by =3D
computer, does that lessen the craftsman?
In both cases there must be the possibility that the regulation of the =3D
computer can be refined in such a way that anyone who can push a button, =
=3D
or read a chart, can achieve results previously attainable only by the =3D
most skilled and experienced eye and hand. One can imagine a time when =3D
computerization would allow the ":craftsman" to program the kiln, and =3D
then a janitor to turn it on and off. =3D20
This is one of the reasons I stand by my lifelong definition that craft =
=3D
is a complex way of life: valuing certain principles, of which the =3D
practice of an actual craft is only a part. Perhaps --I think--the =3D
concept of the craft life is closer to the concept behind certain =3D
religious movements. A "protest", a rejection of the mass culture.
I am sure we face ever more innovations that replace the once =3D
personally and individually done task by a machine/gadget performed one. =
=3D
And, as certainly, it only will increase the number of people who know =3D
and care nothing about craft-- and focus on "expressing themselves" , =3D
"making art", and other "Lord, have mercy " self-aggrandizations.
Some place, at some point, a stand has to be made...we craftsmen are far =
=3D
too tolerant and all inclusive. It is a self-defeating course.
The more frequently I look at websites, Facebook and such like, with =3D
pictures/images of what ignorant "creativity" produces, the more =3D
depressed I become, and the more eager that stands should be taken.
I hope that will be soon.
Rogier Donker on sat 8 jan 11
Ah Lili!
Where would this list be without you!
"...you sound a bit like a luddite here. .... I say luddite =3D
because you are scoffing at this technology as if it takes something
away, somehow ruins the act of being a potter" Whenever anyone has
reservations , or questions any technological =3D
change, people trot out the term "Luddite". Sorry. Wrong..."
So eloquently stated, as per usual! Go Lili, go!
Rogier
P.S. See us on the web at http://www.donkerstudio.org
J Motzkin on sat 8 jan 11
Lili,
Thank you for that view of the Luddites as being about loss of livelihood a=
s
well as lifestyle without time clock and bosses.
Your knowledge of history and experience of a life of craft is always
refreshing.
I love technology, without which I would not be writing to you, firing my
albeit non computerized kiln and cooking my soup.
We come to our work mostly by choice in this time of relative comfort. Not
many would trade this life of craft, of the liberty and lesser income of
self directed work unless necessary, and if we do it is rarely to work in a
ceramics factory, unless the factory of colleges producing MFAs counts.
Warmly,
Judy
Jonathan writes:
"[Vince]"...you sound a bit like a luddite here. .... I say luddite =3D
because you are scoffing at this technology as if it takes something
away, somehow ruins the act of being a potter" ...
Lili wrote:
The Luddites were a small group of men who had worked out of =3D
their--actually miserable--homes, came from craft families, and had =3D
their pitiful livelihood taken away by the coming of weaving machines =3D
and the factory system. There are plenty of books about the coming of =3D
the factories...and the resistance to them--and to the liberties they =3D
took away with their insistence on specific hours and time schedules. =3D
The Luddites--like all the home industry craftsmen-- had accepted new =3D
and improved machines over the years. Many --not just Luddites--equated =
=3D
the factory system to slavery--it certainly was a good second. The =3D
Luddite and other rebellions had nothing to do with machines qua =3D
machines....
This is one of the reasons I stand by my lifelong definition that craft =
=3D
is a complex way of life: valuing certain principles, of which the =3D
practice of an actual craft is only a part. Perhaps --I think--the =3D
concept of the craft life is closer to the concept behind certain =3D
religious movements. A "protest", a rejection of the mass culture.
Randall Moody on sat 8 jan 11
While it is true that Luddites were a knitting and lace group who
smashed up mills and textile machines, the term luddite has come to
mean "one who fears technology or new technology". Computer
controllers are great things but I simply don't trust them. There are
too many variables and in my first semester of grad school I have had
to change more thermocouples in the computer kilns than any other
maintainance issue.
--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
David Woof on sun 9 jan 11
When whoever=3D2C L&L=3D2C Paragon=3D2C et.al. (are you listening Howard?) =
comes =3D
out with a kiln control system that includes a Mechanical Dawson type kiln =
=3D
sitter system along with the computerized components I will apply for deale=
=3D
rship and sell in exuberant mode. Of course it will sell itself I'm sure!!=
=3D
!! The computer system should be able to be over ridden by choice=3D2C or =
by=3D
default to the mechanical in event of the computer system failure.=3D20
It could be offered as an optional feature and I'm sure the serious time/mo=
=3D
ney smart people would pay the additional cost.
=3D20
One would need only to load the sitter each firing if one wanted this defau=
=3D
lt insurance=3D2C but such economical insurance!!! All the while enjoying t=
he=3D
convenience of the computerized system while/when it works.
=3D20
It would be the savior for the looming show date=3D2C or end of semester ru=
sh=3D
where computer failure seems to happen most often.
=3D20
Folks we will get what we want if enough of us communicate!!! And I think=
=3D
more actual feed back to the companies each time there is a problem may ma=
=3D
ke the manufacturers more aware of the scope of the problems. The informati=
=3D
on gets diluted when it filters back from the repair technicians and retail=
=3D
ers in the form of parts orders. It seldom reaches the proper channels or =
=3D
R @ D departments in impact full form. My experience is that these compani=
=3D
es are very responsive when contacted. Our success is intrinsic to their c=
=3D
ontinued success. There is a relationship here=3D2C let's not make it fac=
el=3D
ess.
=3D20
David Woof........Clarkdale=3D2C AZ...........
_______________________________________________________________________
7b. Re: Luddites and computerized kilns
Posted by: "Randall Moody" randall.moody@GMAIL.COM=3D20
Date: Sat Jan 8=3D2C 2011 9:28 pm ((PST))
=3D20
While it is true that Luddites were a knitting and lace group who
smashed up mills and textile machines=3D2C the term luddite has come to
mean "one who fears technology or new technology". Computer
controllers are great things but I simply don't trust them. There are
too many variables and in my first semester of grad school I have had
to change more thermocouples in the computer kilns than any other
maintainance issue.
=3D20
=3D20
=3D20
=3D
Eva Gallagher on sun 9 jan 11
I second that! When I asked about that - they said that switches, sitter
were redundant and that you would never need it. I was told that what is th=
e
diff between the computer failing and a switch? None as you just have to
repair both.
But I think there is a lot of diff - one in terms of cost and the other in
terms of knowing what may be wrong.
Well right now the thermocouples can't read a negative number - so we need
to put a match to heat it up first to get it started as our electric kiln i=
s
in an unheated shed - fortunately the winter has been mild so far so it has
been OK.
Mind you - with our time of use electricity costs that started this fall in
Ontario the computerized kiln has been a real boon.
Regards,
Eva Gallagher
http://newfoundoutpotter.blogspot.com/
http://www.valleyartisans.com/gallagher/Gallagher.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Woof"
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: Luddites and computerized kilns
When whoever, L&L, Paragon, et.al. (are you listening Howard?) comes out
with a kiln control system that includes a Mechanical Dawson type kiln
sitter system along with the computerized components I will apply for
dealership and sell in exuberant mode. Of course it will sell itself I'm
sure!!!! The computer system should be able to be over ridden by choice, o=
r
by default to the mechanical in event of the computer system failure.
It could be offered as an optional feature and I'm sure the serious
time/money smart people would pay the additional cost.
One would need only to load the sitter each firing if one wanted this
default insurance, but such economical insurance!!! All the while enjoying
the convenience of the computerized system while/when it works.
It would be the savior for the looming show date, or end of semester rush
where computer failure seems to happen most often.
Folks we will get what we want if enough of us communicate!!! And I think
more actual feed back to the companies each time there is a problem may mak=
e
the manufacturers more aware of the scope of the problems. The information
gets diluted when it filters back from the repair technicians and retailers
in the form of parts orders. It seldom reaches the proper channels or R @ =
D
departments in impact full form. My experience is that these companies are
very responsive when contacted. Our success is intrinsic to their continue=
d
success. There is a relationship here, let's not make it faceless.
David Woof........Clarkdale, AZ...........
_______________________________________________________________________
Steve Mills on sun 9 jan 11
That's what I have; the ease of a controller coupled with the reliability o=
f=3D
a cone.=3D20
THE best combination!!!
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Sent from my Itouch
On 9 Jan 2011, at 17:24, David Woof wrote:
> When whoever, L&L, Paragon, et.al. (are you listening Howard?) comes out =
w=3D
ith a kiln control system that includes a Mechanical Dawson type kiln sitte=
r=3D
system along with the computerized components I will apply for dealership =
a=3D
nd sell in exuberant mode. Of course it will sell itself I'm sure!!!! =3D2=
0
May Luk on sun 9 jan 11
The sitter was NOT redundant, it could have been a back up system.
When my controller was giving me problems, there was no way I could
fire. The manufacturer is probably trying to cut cost. I looked into
the controller of my now dead kiln, it's all made in China and poor
quality control. So typical.
May
Brooklyn NY
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Eva Gallagher wrote:
> I second that! When I asked about that - they said that switches, sitter
> were redundant and that you would never need it. I was told that what is =
=3D
the
> diff between the computer failing and a switch? None as you just have to
> repair both.
> Regards,
> Eva Gallagher
> http://newfoundoutpotter.blogspot.com/
> http://www.valleyartisans.com/gallagher/Gallagher.htm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Woof"
> Subject: Re: Luddites and computerized kilns
>
>
> When whoever, L&L, Paragon, et.al. (are you listening Howard?) comes out
> with a kiln control system that includes a Mechanical Dawson type kiln
> sitter system along with the computerized components I will apply for
> dealership and sell in exuberant mode. =3DA0Of course it will sell itself=
I=3D
'm
> sure!!!! =3DA0The computer system should be able to be over ridden by cho=
ic=3D
e, or
> by default to the mechanical in event of the computer system failure.
> It could be offered as an optional feature and I'm sure the serious
> time/money smart people would pay the additional cost.
>
>
> David Woof........Clarkdale, AZ...........
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
--=3D20
http://twitter.com/MayLuk
http://www.takemehomeware.com/
Paul Herman on sun 9 jan 11
Hi David,
Greetings from over yonder.
You are right on with this call for a kiln sitter and computer bypass
as a manual back-up system.
There are times in my pottery business that it's really important to
get a certain firing out on time, in order to complete orders or
prepare for shows. If the durn computer gets too hot and croaks, I am
helpless to fix it. That's not OK. My equipment must be simple enough
for me to repair right here at the shop, with materials I have
stockpiled for such a possibility.
Computer controllers work great, until they don't. Then you are faced
with a lengthy diagnosis and repair morass, which can take weeks or
months. You better have a whole 'nother computer controlled kiln in
the back room as a spare, huh?
My friend Joe got a new electric kiln about 12 years ago and used it
for bisque firing at 06 or less. Within one year the computer quit
working. Joe got his wire cutters and monkey wrench and ripped that
computer off the side of the (new) kiln, and put in three three-way
switches. We took the computer and mudded it onto the shell of the
wood kiln for a joke. Luckily, back then the electric kiln was
manufactured with a kiln sitter too. The switches have never failed in
the ensuing eleven years. Go figure.
I currently bisque fire in a manually operated Skutt that was made in
1968, and it always works (pretty much.) If it doesn't work, it is
simple enough for me to understand and repair.
In the years to come, dependability and robustness of systems could be
a major selling point. Kiln manufacturers should consider that. Some
people seem to want a kiln that is about as challenging to fire as a
microwaved burrito.
best,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
www.greatbasinpottery.com/
On Jan 9, 2011, at 9:24 AM, David Woof wrote:
> When whoever, L&L, Paragon, et.al. (are you listening Howard?) comes
> out with a kiln control system that includes a Mechanical Dawson
> type kiln sitter system along with the computerized components I
> will apply for dealership and sell in exuberant mode. Of course it
> will sell itself I'm sure!!!! The computer system should be able to
> be over ridden by choice, or by default to the mechanical in event
> of the computer system failure.
> It could be offered as an optional feature and I'm sure the serious
> time/money smart people would pay the additional cost.
>
> One would need only to load the sitter each firing if one wanted
> this default insurance, but such economical insurance!!! All the
> while enjoying the convenience of the computerized system while/when
> it works.
>
> It would be the savior for the looming show date, or end of semester
> rush where computer failure seems to happen most often.
>
> Folks we will get what we want if enough of us communicate!!! And
> I think more actual feed back to the companies each time there is a
> problem may make the manufacturers more aware of the scope of the
> problems. The information gets diluted when it filters back from the
> repair technicians and retailers in the form of parts orders. It
> seldom reaches the proper channels or R @ D departments in impact
> full form. My experience is that these companies are very
> responsive when contacted. Our success is intrinsic to their
> continued success. There is a relationship here, let's not make it
> faceless.
>
> David Woof........Clarkdale, AZ...........
John Rodgers on sun 9 jan 11
This can - and should - be done. I have two Paragons that I really
like. However, sole dependence on the computer to drive the kiln is a
serious weakness. I like very much the control over firings that I have
with the computer. My kilns are now 5 years old, and I have had computer
failure once and had to change it out - and fortunately it was still
under warranty. But now the replacement board has a fault, and while it
does fire - I need to change it out again to have full functionality.
I'm not happy about that. Those boards a pricey!! Like several hundred
dollars each. If the board goes out, then my kiln is down until I come
up with the bucks to replace it again. But worse - if the board goes
down at an inconvenient time - then I am stuck because while the rest of
the kiln works just fine - there is no way to bypass that board and
continue to use the kiln until the issue can be dealt with. Now, if I
were a big time operator - I would have at least a spare board, spare
thermocouples, and spare elements on hand at all times. That is what as
a commercial operation I would have at a minimum. If not - then I'm not
serious about production. To operate a serious business you never allow
yourself to be in the position of being tool blocked. On the other hand,
as a studio potter of limited means, that's a lot of money to tie up and
have sitting on a shelf
The alternative is to buy one of the wall mount computers and build your
own combo unit. You can take a manually fired kiln with kiln sitter and
mount that wal mount computer to it and then have both worlds. Takes a
bit of doing, though, but it is do-able.
So - it would be nice to see one of the manufacturers take this on and
produce a kiln that has that redundancy built into it.
My $0.02. on an ice coated day in the South.
John
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
On 1/9/2011 11:24 AM, David Woof wrote:
> When whoever, L&L, Paragon, et.al. (are you listening Howard?) comes out =
with a kiln control system that includes a Mechanical Dawson type kiln sitt=
er system along with the computerized components I will apply for dealershi=
p and sell in exuberant mode. Of course it will sell itself I'm sure!!!! =
The computer system should be able to be over ridden by choice, or by defau=
lt to the mechanical in event of the computer system failure.
> It could be offered as an optional feature and I'm sure the serious time/=
money smart people would pay the additional cost.
>
> One would need only to load the sitter each firing if one wanted this def=
ault insurance, but such economical insurance!!! All the while enjoying the=
convenience of the computerized system while/when it works.
>
> It would be the savior for the looming show date, or end of semester rush=
where computer failure seems to happen most often.
>
> Folks we will get what we want if enough of us communicate!!! And I thi=
nk more actual feed back to the companies each time there is a problem may =
make the manufacturers more aware of the scope of the problems. The informa=
tion gets diluted when it filters back from the repair technicians and reta=
ilers in the form of parts orders. It seldom reaches the proper channels o=
r R @ D departments in impact full form. My experience is that these compa=
nies are very responsive when contacted. Our success is intrinsic to their=
continued success. There is a relationship here, let's not make it facel=
ess.
>
> David Woof........Clarkdale, AZ...........
> _______________________________________________________________________
> 7b. Re: Luddites and computerized kilns
> Posted by: "Randall Moody" randall.moody@GMAIL.COM
> Date: Sat Jan 8, 2011 9:28 pm ((PST))
>
> While it is true that Luddites were a knitting and lace group who
> smashed up mills and textile machines, the term luddite has come to
> mean "one who fears technology or new technology". Computer
> controllers are great things but I simply don't trust them. There are
> too many variables and in my first semester of grad school I have had
> to change more thermocouples in the computer kilns than any other
> maintainance issue.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
John Post on sun 9 jan 11
If you need to have a sitter and a computer on your electric kiln then
a workable option for you may be a wall mounted computer controller.
You plug your kiln (that has a sitter in it) into the controller and
then the controller into your wall receptacle.
I have purchased two of these type of units from an ebay seller named
vulcankilns and have found them to work very well.
I always remove the sitters on my kilns when I hook them up to a
controller, but you could easily leave them in place as a back up. If
your wall mounted computer or thermocouple ever failed, you could then
just plug your kiln back into the wall and fire it manually.
You can see an example of this controller here...
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Orton-controller-large-ceramic-pottery-kilns-/16052=
6608383?pt=3DLH_DefaultDomain_0&var=3D&hash=3Ditem6b1b12ffcb#ht_500wt_1156
or search for ebay item number:
160526608383
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
http://www.johnpost.us
Follow me on Twitter
https://twitter.com/UCSArtTeacher
On Jan 9, 2011, at 8:44 PM, May Luk wrote:
> The sitter was NOT redundant, it could have been a back up system.
> When my controller was giving me problems, there was no way I could
> fire. The manufacturer is probably trying to cut cost. I looked into
> the controller of my now dead kiln, it's all made in China and poor
> quality control. So typical.
>
> May
> Brooklyn NY
>
> On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Eva Gallagher wrote:
>> I second that! When I asked about that - they said that switches,
>> sitter
>> were redundant and that you would never need it. I was told that
>> what is the
>> diff between the computer failing and a switch? None as you just
>> have to
>> repair both.
>
>> Regards,
>> Eva Gallagher
>> http://newfoundoutpotter.blogspot.com/
>> http://www.valleyartisans.com/gallagher/Gallagher.htm
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Woof"
>
>> Subject: Re: Luddites and computerized kilns
>>
>>
>> When whoever, L&L, Paragon, et.al. (are you listening Howard?)
>> comes out
>> with a kiln control system that includes a Mechanical Dawson type
>> kiln
>> sitter system along with the computerized components I will apply for
>> dealership and sell in exuberant mode. Of course it will sell
>> itself I'm
>> sure!!!! The computer system should be able to be over ridden by
>> choice, or
>> by default to the mechanical in event of the computer system failure.
>> It could be offered as an optional feature and I'm sure the serious
>> time/money smart people would pay the additional cost.
>>
>>
>> David Woof........Clarkdale, AZ...........
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://twitter.com/MayLuk
> http://www.takemehomeware.com/
Lee on sun 9 jan 11
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Steve Mills
wrote:
> That's what I have; the ease of a controller coupled with the reliability=
=3D
of a cone.
> THE best combination!!!
Cone backup would be a good failsafe.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Steve Mills on mon 10 jan 11
This is exactly what I have; an Olympic
With a Kiln Sitter, and a good quality Programmer, with multiple steps avai=
l=3D
able (if needed), and 10 adjustable on-board programmes. If the Programmer =
g=3D
oes AWOL I can cut it out and fire manually!
Unbeatable!
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Sent from my Itouch
On 10 Jan 2011, at 03:04, John Rodgers wrote:
>=3D20
> The alternative is to buy one of the wall mount computers and build your
> own combo unit. You can take a manually fired kiln with kiln sitter and
> mount that wal mount computer to it and then have both worlds. Takes a
> bit of doing, though, but it is do-able.
>=3D20
> So - it would be nice to see one of the manufacturers take this on and
> produce a kiln that has that redundancy built into it.
>=3D20
> My $0.02. on an ice coated day in the South.
>=3D20
> John
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> John Rodgers
> Clayartist and Moldmaker
> 88'GL VW Bus Driver
> Chelsea, AL
> Http://www.moldhaus.com
>=3D20
>=3D20
> On 1/9/2011 11:24 AM, David Woof wrote:
>> When whoever, L&L, Paragon, et.al. (are you listening Howard?) comes out=
w=3D
ith a kiln control system that includes a Mechanical Dawson type kiln sitte=
r=3D
system along with the computerized components I will apply for dealership =
a=3D
nd sell in exuberant mode. Of course it will sell itself I'm sure!!!! The=
c=3D
omputer system should be able to be over ridden by choice, or by default to=
t=3D
he mechanical in event of the computer system failure.
>> It could be offered as an optional feature and I'm sure the serious time=
/=3D
money smart people would pay the additional cost.
>>=3D20
>> One would need only to load the sitter each firing if one wanted this de=
f=3D
ault insurance, but such economical insurance!!! All the while enjoying the=
c=3D
onvenience of the computerized system while/when it works.
>>=3D20
>> It would be the savior for the looming show date, or end of semester rus=
h=3D
where computer failure seems to happen most often.
>>=3D20
>> Folks we will get what we want if enough of us communicate!!! And I th=
i=3D
nk more actual feed back to the companies each time there is a problem may =
m=3D
ake the manufacturers more aware of the scope of the problems. The informat=
i=3D
on gets diluted when it filters back from the repair technicians and retail=
e=3D
rs in the form of parts orders. It seldom reaches the proper channels or R=
@=3D
D departments in impact full form. My experience is that these companies =
a=3D
re very responsive when contacted. Our success is intrinsic to their conti=
n=3D
ued success. There is a relationship here, let's not make it faceless.
>>=3D20
>> David Woof........Clarkdale, AZ...........
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> 7b. Re: Luddites and computerized kilns
>> Posted by: "Randall Moody" randall.moody@GMAIL.COM
>> Date: Sat Jan 8, 2011 9:28 pm ((PST))
>>=3D20
>> While it is true that Luddites were a knitting and lace group who
>> smashed up mills and textile machines, the term luddite has come to
>> mean "one who fears technology or new technology". Computer
>> controllers are great things but I simply don't trust them. There are
>> too many variables and in my first semester of grad school I have had
>> to change more thermocouples in the computer kilns than any other
>> maintainance issue.
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
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Lee on mon 10 jan 11
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Steve Mills
wrote:
> This is exactly what I have; an Olympic
> With a Kiln Sitter, and a good quality Programmer, with multiple steps
> available (if needed), and 10 adjustable on-board programmes. If the
> Programmer goes AWOL I can cut it out and fire manually!
>
Kind of like a Lockerbie kick wheel with attached motor.
I will eventually get a computer to plug into for my 20 year old AIM
2327. I mostly just bisqued in it and it sat in heated storage for 10
years. nothing like programing a a 180*F drying period to dry
leatherhard for bisquing.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he land
of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent within
itself." -- John O'Donohue
Liz Gowen 1 on tue 11 jan 11
I upgraded my kiln from an old 2 1/2 " L&L j230 to one with 3 " brick.
Since I already had a wall mounted orton controller that I wanted to
continue to use I basically bought a manual kiln with the kiln setter also
L&L. The 3 plugs from the kiln plug into the controller unit and it has 3
thermocouples for the 3 tiers. L&L worked with me as did Orton to get what =
I
wanted which was a controller kiln with the redundant kiln setter. I have
not hooked up the setter it is still new in its packaging but there if I
want it. I don't think it would shut the kiln down if you put a cone in it
but it will drop the lever and if you are manually firing you need to be
there towards the end. If the controller fails I just need to return the
plugs from the controller to the kiln and plug in the large main plug into
the wall and the dason sitter would then work as expected...Liz Gowen
Paul Herman said
You are right on with this call for a kiln sitter and computer bypass as a
manual back-up system.
David Woof said
On Jan 9, 2011, at 9:24 AM, David Woof wrote:
> When whoever, L&L, Paragon, et.al. (are you listening Howard?) comes
> out with a kiln control system that includes a Mechanical Dawson type
> kiln sitter system along with the computerized components I will apply
> for dealership and sell in exuberant mode. Of course it will sell
> itself I'm sure!!!!
Arnold Howard on tue 11 jan 11
On 1/9/2011 11:24 AM, David Woof wrote:
> When whoever, L&L, Paragon, et.al. (are you listening Howard?) comes out =
with a kiln control system that includes a Mechanical Dawson type kiln sitt=
er system along with the computerized components I will apply for dealershi=
p and sell in exuberant mode.
David, thanks for the suggestion. Actually, we do offer an optional
Orton Auto-Cone safety shutoff for digital kilns (less the Limit Timer).
The Auto-Cone is Orton's version of the Dawson Kiln Sitter. We added
this option because of the demand from Clayart members.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Arnold Howard on tue 11 jan 11
On 1/8/2011 5:43 PM, Randall Moody wrote:
Computer
> controllers are great things but I simply don't trust them. There are
> too many variables and in my first semester of grad school I have had
> to change more thermocouples in the computer kilns than any other
> maintainance issue.
Randall, you will get much better service out of an S-Type thermocouple
than the K-Type for stoneware firings. Before buying the S-Type, find
out if your controller will accept it. The controller must be reset for
the new thermocouple, and the thermocouple-to-controller wires must be
changed, or the temperature will be off.
The S-Type is quite fragile, because the expensive thermocouple wires
that extend into the kiln are so thin. It is easy to destroy the S-Type
by bumping into it with a shelf. But as long as the thermocouple is not
jarred, it should last far longer than the K-Type, and without
temperature drift.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
jonathan byler on wed 12 jan 11
I have yet to have the computer fail on the kiln, but have had no end
of trouble with the kiln sitter. the kiln occasionally turns off when
it won't come to temperature because of weak old elements. or because
of a problem with the kiln sitter... but I have never had any other
problems with it (the controller). The biggest problem with the kiln
controllers is the use of cheap type K thermocouples which
progressively wear out and fail. and even that is not that big a deal
for most work - you can see the things deteriorating and get to know
when they are going to go out.
On Jan 9, 2011, at 11:24 AM, David Woof wrote:
> The computer system should be able to be over ridden by choice, or
> by default to the mechanical in event of the computer system failure.
David Woof on thu 13 jan 11
Thanks Howard=3D2C
I am reminded=3D3B if I can think it=3D2C somewhere someone has done it=3D=
2C is =3D
doing it=3D2C or soon will do it.
=3D20
Thanks to you and your company for listening responsively.
=3D20
David Woof
=3D20
Re: Luddites and computerized kilns
Posted by: "Arnold Howard" ahoward@PARAGONWEB.COM=3D20
Date: Tue Jan 11=3D2C 2011 4:22 pm ((PST))
=3D20
On 1/9/2011 11:24 AM=3D2C David Woof wrote:
> When whoever=3D2C L&L=3D2C Paragon=3D2C et.al. (are you listening Howard?=
) come=3D
s out with a kiln control system that includes a Mechanical Dawson type kil=
=3D
n sitter system along with the computerized components I will apply for dea=
=3D
lership and sell in exuberant mode.
=3D20
David=3D2C thanks for the suggestion. Actually=3D2C we do offer an optional
Orton Auto-Cone safety shutoff for digital kilns (less the Limit Timer).
The Auto-Cone is Orton's version of the Dawson Kiln Sitter. We added
this option because of the demand from Clayart members.
=3D20
Sincerely=3D2C
=3D20
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries=3D2C L.P.=3D2C Mesquite=3D2C Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
=3D20
=3D20
=3D
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