Lili Krakowski on sun 30 jan 11
Vince writes about that Ai WeiWei installation: " ... I think the =3D
majority of people would say instead that no amount of whining and =3D
complaining about the discrepancy in pay [between what the seed makers =3D
got, and everyone else] has the slightest negative impact on the =3D
significance
of what he did or the effectiveness of the installation."
Yo! Look over here, Vince! It matters to this minority.
In the 1940s--my high school years--the Metropolitan Museum still =3D
allowed regular folk to read in its library. Where I spent lovely hours =
=3D
and hours . =3D20
One of the things I read was that an Italian High Renaissance painter =3D
had been indicted for crucifying an apprentice. (I do not remember if =3D
the apprentice died ) The painter had done it to capture the correct =3D
expression for a painting of Jesus on the cross. The court let the =3D
painter go.
So the matter of human suffering vs artistic creation is not new. Mr Ai =
=3D
built his installation on quasi slave labor. I would guess that had he
had this idea in Great Britain (where the installation was shown) or the =
=3D
Americas or Europe and made the thing there while paying the workers a =3D
decent wage, he could not have done it. =3D20
It is something to think about. "The significance of what he did" is =3D
that quasi- slave-labor can produce lovely stuff...But what is our moral
stance towards the stuff produced? "The effectiveness of the =3D
installation"--which I have not seen at all--is exactly what?
I do not mean to drag things in...but let us remember that Leni =3D
Riefenstahl was shunned after WWII because of the "effectiveness" and =3D
"significance" of her propaganda films! Had she not been a great =3D
film-maker she would have fared better. (One of her complaints was that =3D
far worse Nazis than she had been "forgiven"--while she remained a =3D
pariah.)
I think the moral context of "artistic creation" matters a lot...And =3D
should matter more...But I own up to being in the minority.
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
Vince Pitelka on sun 30 jan 11
Lili Krakowski wrote:
"So the matter of human suffering vs artistic creation is not new. Mr Ai
built his installation on quasi slave labor. I would guess that had he ha=
d
this idea in Great Britain (where the installation was shown) or the
Americas or Europe and made the thing there while paying the workers a
decent wage, he could not have done it."
Dear Lili -
By using the term "quasi slave labor," you seem to betray that you do not
know very much about Ai Weiwei and his project. Do you know that the peopl=
e
who made the sunflower seeds needed the employment very badly and were very
grateful for it? Do you know that he kept them employed for two years? Do
you know that he paid them as much or more than what they were accustom to
receiving for labor in that part of China? Quasi slave labor? Come on,
Lili, it does no good to bring that kind of misleading terminology into the
discussion. OF COURSE he could not have afforded to do anything like that
if he had to pay for the labor in Europe or the US. But more importantly,
it would have negated the whole point of the work.
It is really a shame when people tear apart a worthwhile and significant
work of art with incorrect information and misleading responses. Everyone
is entitled to their opinions, and everyone's opinions are welcome on this
list. Your opinions are usually very well considered, and I always read
them, but this post baffled me.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Philip Poburka on sun 30 jan 11
Hi Lili, all...
As far as I was able to find out, the people who Mr. WeiWei contracted to
make the Seeds, were free agents, 'Grass Roots' level Artisans operating in
genuine
Free enterprise.
They were not slaves or quazi-slaves by any reasonable definition.
And for Pete's sakes, if someone went to say, the Acme Button Factory right
here in Waterbury Conn, and, had them make fifteen million 'Buttons' to
spec...and the person who contracted them to make the Buttons, then made a
sculpture or whatever out of the Buttons, and sold the Sculpture, would you
be moaning and lamenting on how for selling the Sculpture, the person did
not go back and give hefty shares of the proceeds, to the persons working i=
n
the Button Factory?
I do not think you would...
Have you gone to find the Carpenters/Plumbers/Electricians/Roofers/etc who
build the House you live in, to hand THEM a few grand each, since, probably
they got, what, four bucks an hour under a contractor, for building it, whe=
n
it was worth nine grand as a new Home, and, now it is worth four hundred
grand?
Do tell?
Lol...
Anyway...
The whole set-up in which the 'Seeds' were made, in many ways resembles wha=
t
had been common here in the
U.S. at one time.
Small Towns or Villages, or sometimes a family or network of families, of
people operating as free agents, independent Artisans, who had come to
specialize in specific kinds of Artisanship and Piece-Work.
That is how a lot of things were done here long ago, even as adjuncts to
proper or Formal Manu-Factories, where, sub-assemblies, parts manufacture,
fitting, etc, were
jobbed out to just such situations/groups/families.
This is also how most of the United States Military Arms were manufactured
at one time, the Contractor would sub out all the parts and sub-assemblies,
and, his Manu-Factory would often make the rough parts, and, later, do the
final assembly and checking of tolerances and
whatever else...with the intermediate shaping and fitting and so on, or
parts made as a whole, done my independent Artisan families near by.
Wagons or Horses would convey heavy Bags or Crates of rough or semi-finishe=
d
parts to
the Piece Workers who often lived, or, sprang up or located themselves,
within some reasonable distance from the central Manufactory. As the Piece
Workers completed the Work, the Manufactory would send Wagons or Horses and
so on to bring the parts back to the Manufactory.
Seems like a good system to me!
Many Americans 'Worked' at Home in that way, you get it done, you get it
done and out, you get paid Cash and no BS, you make your own hours, you wor=
k
on things
with a Baby in the Cradle, and your Foot rocking the Cradle as you Work.
Old people helped, friends would come over and help...one's own or friends
or neighbor's Kids helped, and thus learned the Trade and Skills.
Granted, in many instances, those families and small Towns and so on, grew,
prospered, came up with their own inventions to Manufacture or Market, and
became more formalized, and or confluenced into Manufacturing Centers with
their own Factories and so on.
This was how things worked.
Here, and in England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales...Germany, and in
Europe...and Asia also... all over.
This rough 'system' is what underlay the greatest expansion of human
creativity and genius and invention
and productivity the people-world had ever seen, or ever will see - America
in the first half of the 19th Century, and other places also, did things an=
d
did them well and with style and energy, which can not be duplicated today
or even imagined by these languid soggy muddied Seas of processed 'Hostess
Twinkies' glistening from under their cellowrap.
You want victims?
Look at wage hour job lackies from shore to sodden shore.
They are the 'quasi slaves'...and in oh so many ways...and there are a few
hundred million of them right here in the good ol' U.S. of A., too.
Oye...
Love,
Phil
L v
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lili Krakowski"
Vince writes about that Ai WeiWei installation: " ... I think the majority
of people would say instead that no amount of whining and complaining about
the discrepancy in pay [between what the seed makers got, and everyone else=
]
has the slightest negative impact on the significance
of what he did or the effectiveness of the installation."
Yo! Look over here, Vince! It matters to this minority.
In the 1940s--my high school years--the Metropolitan Museum still allowed
regular folk to read in its library. Where I spent lovely hours and hours =
.
One of the things I read was that an Italian High Renaissance painter had
been indicted for crucifying an apprentice. (I do not remember if the
apprentice died ) The painter had done it to capture the correct expressio=
n
for a painting of Jesus on the cross. The court let the painter go.
So the matter of human suffering vs artistic creation is not new. Mr Ai
built his installation on quasi slave labor. I would guess that had he
had this idea in Great Britain (where the installation was shown) or the
Americas or Europe and made the thing there while paying the workers a
decent wage, he could not have done it.
It is something to think about. "The significance of what he did" is that
quasi- slave-labor can produce lovely stuff...But what is our moral
stance towards the stuff produced? "The effectiveness of the
installation"--which I have not seen at all--is exactly what?
I do not mean to drag things in...but let us remember that Leni Riefenstahl
was shunned after WWII because of the "effectiveness" and "significance" o=
f
her propaganda films! Had she not been a great film-maker she would have
fared better. (One of her complaints was that far worse Nazis than she had
been "forgiven"--while she remained a pariah.)
I think the moral context of "artistic creation" matters a lot...And should
matter more...But I own up to being in the minority.
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
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