Philip Poburka on sun 30 jan 11
High time someone brought in a little Musical Interlude for all this -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D8IwkR7qSXs0
Ahhhhhh, much better!
Randall Moody on sun 30 jan 11
As was pointed out, "average wage" in China is still basically slave
wages. The math was done on this list when this first came out and the
wage WeiWei paid was pretty much average. It doesn't matter if the
person you are taking advantage of is okay with it. You are still
taking advantage of the person. What is so hard to understand about
that?
Given that Wei Wei paid near slave wages to a group of people to
create the work of art that ended up being a health hazard, more than
likely got a good deal of money from the Tate and now is selling the
product at a much inflated rate, what separates him from any number of
sweat shop owners or shoe manufacturers who do the same thing? Why are
those companies pilloried while Wei Wei is touted as some great "human
rights" advocate.
--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
Randall Moody on sun 30 jan 11
Actually it is directly to the point Vince. Since the issue isn't
black market or pirated ware the issue of copying 'Merican made items
is irrelevant in this case.
Wei Wei being Chinese doesn't excuse this. Your position seems to be
that since he is Chinese and the workers were Chinese it is okay. Why
do you seem to think that it is okay to pay slave wages or near slave
wages in one instance but not in another? Why are you giving him a
pass but are faulting Wal Mart?
The toxicity of the dust is relevant to this conversation or are you
going to fault Chinese toy manufacturers for using dangerous paints
and chemicals in the manufacture of their product but give Wei Wei a
pass for his?
I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy in paying the workers a
pittance and the selling the product at an inflated rate all the while
being touted as a "humanitarian". Sorry to point out this, to me,
obvious issue. I am done with this. It is starting to bore me.
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 9:16 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Randall Moody wrote:
> "As was pointed out, "average wage" in China is still basicClly slave wag=
=3D
es.
> The math was done on this list when this first came out and the wage WeiW=
=3D
ei
> paid was pretty much average. It doesn't matter if the person you are tak=
=3D
ing
> advantage of is okay with it. You are still taking advantage of the perso=
=3D
n.
> What is so hard to understand about that?"
>
> Randall -
> I wish you and other people could understand that the point you make abov=
=3D
e
> is completely irrelevant in this context. =3DA0It is valid when you are t=
al=3D
king
> about Walmart having products (often rip-offs of things originally made i=
=3D
n
> North America) manufactured so inexpensively in China and in other countr=
=3D
ies
> with such low wages, and then importing them to North American and sellin=
=3D
g
> the products for huge profit through their stores. =3DA0That is a valid
> comparison and criticism of Walmart. =3DA0In Ai Weiwei's case, he is a Ch=
in=3D
ese
> artist, and he hired Chinese workers for the going rate to make the
> sunflower seeds and in doing so he provided them with much-needed
> employment. =3DA0Within his own country, he did a wonderful thing.
>
> Bringing up the issue of the supposedly toxic dust just makes you sound
> ridiculous in this case, because it has nothing to do with this discussio=
=3D
n,
> and of course Ai Weiwei had no way to anticipate that problem. =3DA0Why a=
re=3D
you
> grasping at straws to try to demean him and his work?
>
> Of course the wages in China are terribly low in comparison to most
> industrialized countries. =3DA0That has nothing to do with the fact that =
Ai
> Weiwei hired his own countrymen for the going wage to make those seeds. =
=3D
=3DA0It
> is fine to illuminate violations of human rights in China, but please rem=
=3D
ain
> that has been much of the focus of Ai Weiwei's career as an artist. =3DA0=
Wh=3D
y
> don't you give him credit for that?
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>
>
>
>
>
--=3D20
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
Vince Pitelka on sun 30 jan 11
Randall Moody wrote:
"As was pointed out, "average wage" in China is still basically slave wages=
.
The math was done on this list when this first came out and the wage WeiWei
paid was pretty much average. It doesn't matter if the person you are takin=
g
advantage of is okay with it. You are still taking advantage of the person.
What is so hard to understand about that?"
Randall -
I wish you and other people could understand that the point you make above
is completely irrelevant in this context. It is valid when you are talking
about Walmart having products (often rip-offs of things originally made in
North America) manufactured so inexpensively in China and in other countrie=
s
with such low wages, and then importing them to North American and selling
the products for huge profit through their stores. That is a valid
comparison and criticism of Walmart. In Ai Weiwei's case, he is a Chinese
artist, and he hired Chinese workers for the going rate to make the
sunflower seeds and in doing so he provided them with much-needed
employment. Within his own country, he did a wonderful thing.
Bringing up the issue of the supposedly toxic dust just makes you sound
ridiculous in this case, because it has nothing to do with this discussion,
and of course Ai Weiwei had no way to anticipate that problem. Why are you
grasping at straws to try to demean him and his work?
Of course the wages in China are terribly low in comparison to most
industrialized countries. That has nothing to do with the fact that Ai
Weiwei hired his own countrymen for the going wage to make those seeds. It
is fine to illuminate violations of human rights in China, but please remai=
n
that has been much of the focus of Ai Weiwei's career as an artist. Why
don't you give him credit for that?
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
May Luk on mon 31 jan 11
All these talks about slaves and human rights reminded me of the dead
cockle-pickers Morecambe Bay, England.
http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/when-humans-are-just-pieces-of-cargo-feature=
=3D
s-december-09-human-trafficking
Slaves nowadays don't get paid. Please don't use the word slave to
describe below your standard wage in your world, thank you.
May
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 9:50 PM, Randall Moody wr=
=3D
ote:
> Actually it is directly to the point Vince. Since the issue isn't
> black market or pirated ware the issue of copying 'Merican made items
> is irrelevant in this case.
>
> Wei Wei being Chinese doesn't excuse this. Your position seems to be
> that since he is Chinese and the workers were Chinese it is okay. Why
> do you seem to think that it is okay to pay slave wages or near slave
> wages in one instance but not in another? Why are you giving him a
> pass but are faulting Wal Mart?
>
> The toxicity of the dust is relevant to this conversation or are you
> going to fault Chinese toy manufacturers for using dangerous paints
> and chemicals in the manufacture of their product but give Wei Wei a
> pass for his?
>
> I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy in paying the workers a
> pittance and the selling the product at an inflated rate all the while
> being touted as a "humanitarian". Sorry to point out this, to me,
> obvious issue. I am done with this. It is starting to bore me.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 9:16 PM, Vince Pitelka wrot=
=3D
e:
>> Randall Moody wrote:
>> "As was pointed out, "average wage" in China is still basicClly slave wa=
=3D
ges.
>> The math was done on this list when this first came out and the wage Wei=
=3D
Wei
>> paid was pretty much average. It doesn't matter if the person you are ta=
=3D
king
>> advantage of is okay with it. You are still taking advantage of the pers=
=3D
on.
>> What is so hard to understand about that?"
>>
>> Randall -
>> I wish you and other people could understand that the point you make abo=
=3D
ve
>> is completely irrelevant in this context. =3DA0It is valid when you are =
ta=3D
lking
>> about Walmart having products (often rip-offs of things originally made =
=3D
in
>> North America) manufactured so inexpensively in China and in other count=
=3D
ries
>> with such low wages, and then importing them to North American and selli=
=3D
ng
>> the products for huge profit through their stores. =3DA0That is a valid
>> comparison and criticism of Walmart. =3DA0In Ai Weiwei's case, he is a C=
hi=3D
nese
>> artist, and he hired Chinese workers for the going rate to make the
>> sunflower seeds and in doing so he provided them with much-needed
>> employment. =3DA0Within his own country, he did a wonderful thing.
>>
>> Bringing up the issue of the supposedly toxic dust just makes you sound
>> ridiculous in this case, because it has nothing to do with this discussi=
=3D
on,
>> and of course Ai Weiwei had no way to anticipate that problem. =3DA0Why =
ar=3D
e you
>> grasping at straws to try to demean him and his work?
>>
>> Of course the wages in China are terribly low in comparison to most
>> industrialized countries. =3DA0That has nothing to do with the fact that=
A=3D
i
>> Weiwei hired his own countrymen for the going wage to make those seeds. =
=3D
=3DA0It
>> is fine to illuminate violations of human rights in China, but please re=
=3D
main
>> that has been much of the focus of Ai Weiwei's career as an artist. =3DA=
0W=3D
hy
>> don't you give him credit for that?
>> - Vince
>>
>> Vince Pitelka
>> Appalachian Center for Craft
>> Tennessee Tech University
>> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
>> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Randall in Atlanta
> http://wrandallmoody.com
>
--=3D20
http://twitter.com/MayLuk
http://www.takemehomeware.com/
Fred Parker on tue 1 feb 11
SNICKER!
Fred Parker
(a fan of light levity liberally slathered over self-annointed illumunati=
=3D
...)
On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 21:21:57 -0800, Philip Poburka w=
=3D
rote:
>High time someone brought in a little Musical Interlude for all this -
>
>
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D3D8IwkR7qSXs0
>
>
>
>Ahhhhhh, much better!
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