Philip Poburka on tue 1 feb 11
Hi James,
That is some very nice and useful news!
I used to just keep the reservoir shaken, which is tedious of course.
Anyway...
I think you can thin Mineral Oil very nicely, with Dichloromethane.
But...best to have the breeze at your back for that one though I s'pose.
Though I have heard that a 60/40 mix of Mineral Oil and Mineral Spirits (
aka Paint Thinner ) will behave pretty well.
Might work better if warmed ( say, in a Hot Water Bath ) first....( lots of
things do ).
Phil
L v
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Freeman"
> Some weeks ago I posted about problems I was having in trying to spray
> oxides through an internal mix airbrush. The problem was that the solids
> settled almost immediately, thus clogging the pick up tube in the cup. I
> floated the idea of mixing the oxide ingredients in mineral oil rather
> than
> water in the hope that the viscous nature of the oil would keep the solid=
s
> in suspension longer, but no one seemed to have any experience with such
> an
> approach.
>
> I glazed three new Industrial pots this afternoon, and decided to give th=
e
> mineral oil idea a test run. The solid oxide particles, in this case
> equal
> parts by volume of RIO, rutile, and Gillespie borate, did indeed stay in
> suspension in the mineral oil for a very long time. The mixture sprayed
> perfectly through the Paasche internal mix airbrush, with none of the
> overspray I experienced with the water-based oxide mix last time. The oi=
l
> did not seem to cause any problems with the glazed pots. The pots are in
> the kiln now. I shall post an update on the fired results when I unload
> on
> Thursday, though again, I expect no problem from the oil.
>
> The oil-based oxide mix was a tad more viscous that I might have liked. =
I
> tried to thin it with mineral spirits, but saw instantly that this was no=
t
> a
> suitable solvent for the mineral oil, as it floated right to the top.
> Does
> anyone know definitively what a suitable solvent for mineral oil might be=
?
> I have lots of toxic and volatile things I might experiment with, but
> would
> much rather save a few brain cells by using the right solvent the first
> time.
>
> All the best.
>
> ...James
>
> James Freeman
>
> "...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
> preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
>
> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I shoul=
d
> not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
> -Michel de Montaigne
>
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
James Freeman on tue 1 feb 11
Some weeks ago I posted about problems I was having in trying to spray
oxides through an internal mix airbrush. The problem was that the solids
settled almost immediately, thus clogging the pick up tube in the cup. I
floated the idea of mixing the oxide ingredients in mineral oil rather than
water in the hope that the viscous nature of the oil would keep the solids
in suspension longer, but no one seemed to have any experience with such an
approach.
I glazed three new Industrial pots this afternoon, and decided to give the
mineral oil idea a test run. The solid oxide particles, in this case equal
parts by volume of RIO, rutile, and Gillespie borate, did indeed stay in
suspension in the mineral oil for a very long time. The mixture sprayed
perfectly through the Paasche internal mix airbrush, with none of the
overspray I experienced with the water-based oxide mix last time. The oil
did not seem to cause any problems with the glazed pots. The pots are in
the kiln now. I shall post an update on the fired results when I unload on
Thursday, though again, I expect no problem from the oil.
The oil-based oxide mix was a tad more viscous that I might have liked. I
tried to thin it with mineral spirits, but saw instantly that this was not =
a
suitable solvent for the mineral oil, as it floated right to the top. Does
anyone know definitively what a suitable solvent for mineral oil might be?
I have lots of toxic and volatile things I might experiment with, but would
much rather save a few brain cells by using the right solvent the first
time.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
May Luk on tue 1 feb 11
What about corn syrup or glycerin? You can thin it with water
May
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 3:26 PM, James Freeman
wrote:
> Some weeks ago I posted about problems I was having in trying to spray
> oxides through an internal mix airbrush. =3DA0The problem was that the so=
li=3D
ds
> settled almost immediately, thus clogging the pick up tube in the cup. =
=3D
=3DA0I
> floated the idea of mixing the oxide ingredients in mineral oil rather th=
=3D
an
> water in the hope that the viscous nature of the oil would keep the solid=
=3D
s
> in suspension longer, but no one seemed to have any experience with such =
=3D
an
> approach.
>
> I glazed three new Industrial pots this afternoon, and decided to give th=
=3D
e
> mineral oil idea a test run. =3DA0The solid oxide particles, in this case=
e=3D
qual
> parts by volume of RIO, rutile, and Gillespie borate, did indeed stay in
> suspension in the mineral oil for a very long time. =3DA0The mixture spra=
ye=3D
d
> perfectly through the Paasche internal mix airbrush, with none of the
> overspray I experienced with the water-based oxide mix last time. =3DA0Th=
e =3D
oil
> did not seem to cause any problems with the glazed pots. =3DA0The pots ar=
e =3D
in
> the kiln now. =3DA0I shall post an update on the fired results when I unl=
oa=3D
d on
> Thursday, though again, I expect no problem from the oil.
>
> The oil-based oxide mix was a tad more viscous that I might have liked. =
=3D
=3DA0I
> tried to thin it with mineral spirits, but saw instantly that this was no=
=3D
t a
> suitable solvent for the mineral oil, as it floated right to the top. =3D=
A0=3D
Does
> anyone know definitively what a suitable solvent for mineral oil might be=
=3D
?
> I have lots of toxic and volatile things I might experiment with, but wou=
=3D
ld
> much rather save a few brain cells by using the right solvent the first
> time.
>
> All the best.
>
> ...James
>
> James Freeman
>
> "...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
> preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
>
> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. =3DA0I s=
ho=3D
uld
> not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
> -Michel de Montaigne
>
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
>
--=3D20
http://twitter.com/MayLuk
http://www.takemehomeware.com/
John Rodgers on tue 1 feb 11
James,
In my Alaska shop, we did extensive china painting. It was all with a
brush, however, we used mineral oil to mix the dry-powder china paints.
For cleaning and diluting, we used Turpenoid, which is an odorless
thinner used by the painterly artistes types. . It worked very well for
that purpose. The product is made by Weber. We picked the Turpenoid
because it was the only odorless agent we could get back then. There
were plenty of turpentines that would have work just fine except for the
smell. So, Turpenoid it was. Now-a-days there are other odorless
turpentines on the market. Prol'ly just pick one and see if it works for
you.
For what little airbrushing that was done, the china paints were first
mixed with mineral oil, then diluted with the Turpenoid. While we were
using china paints, I don't know why it would not work for the oxides we
use on pottery today.
Regards,
John
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
On 2/1/2011 2:26 PM, James Freeman wrote:
> Some weeks ago I posted about problems I was having in trying to spray
> oxides through an internal mix airbrush. The problem was that the solids
> settled almost immediately, thus clogging the pick up tube in the cup. I
> floated the idea of mixing the oxide ingredients in mineral oil rather th=
an
> water in the hope that the viscous nature of the oil would keep the solid=
s
> in suspension longer, but no one seemed to have any experience with such =
an
> approach.
>
> I glazed three new Industrial pots this afternoon, and decided to give th=
e
> mineral oil idea a test run. The solid oxide particles, in this case equ=
al
> parts by volume of RIO, rutile, and Gillespie borate, did indeed stay in
> suspension in the mineral oil for a very long time. The mixture sprayed
> perfectly through the Paasche internal mix airbrush, with none of the
> overspray I experienced with the water-based oxide mix last time. The oi=
l
> did not seem to cause any problems with the glazed pots. The pots are in
> the kiln now. I shall post an update on the fired results when I unload =
on
> Thursday, though again, I expect no problem from the oil.
>
> The oil-based oxide mix was a tad more viscous that I might have liked. =
I
> tried to thin it with mineral spirits, but saw instantly that this was no=
t a
> suitable solvent for the mineral oil, as it floated right to the top. Do=
es
> anyone know definitively what a suitable solvent for mineral oil might be=
?
> I have lots of toxic and volatile things I might experiment with, but wou=
ld
> much rather save a few brain cells by using the right solvent the first
> time.
>
> All the best.
>
> ...James
>
> James Freeman
>
> "...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
> preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
>
> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I shoul=
d
> not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
> -Michel de Montaigne
>
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
>
>
marci Boskie's Mama =3D^..^=3D on wed 2 feb 11
> James Freeman said:
>The oil-based oxide mix was a tad more viscous that I might have liked. I
>tried to thin it with mineral spirits, but saw instantly that this was not=
a
>suitable solvent for the mineral oil, as it floated right to the top. Doe=
s
>anyone know definitively what a suitable solvent for mineral oil might be?
Try alcohol.. It thins the mineral oil -mixed paint well and
dries fast when it hits the surface so you are less likely to get
runs. A friend of mine used to chinapaint a lot of lamps and the
mineral oil-alcohol mix is what she used exclusively .
Marci the chinapainter
James Freeman on fri 4 feb 11
I unloaded the kiln with my airbrushed oxide mixed in mineral oil test. As
expected, the oil caused no adverse effects, and the fired results are
indistinguishable from the previous test with oxide in water. The only
difference is that the internal mix Paasche airbrush applies a much finer
coat of material than the cheap external mix airbrush I typically use, so I
will have to compensate by spraying for a bit longer. The precise control
afforded by the double action internal mix airbrush more than makes up for
the tiny bit of extra effort required.
In my test, the oxide was applied over the glaze. For the next test of the
mineral oil base I will apply some oxide under the glaze to see if it cause=
s
any glaze application or firing problems. I've never been much of a
believer in the oil-and-dust-causing-crawling theory, so I guess this will
be a pretty severe test of that idea. I'll report back with the results.
In terms of thinning the oil, I received a large number of suggestions off
list. Some of the suggestions include turpentine, turpenoid, alcohol, Zipp=
o
lighter fluid, and charcoal lighter fluid. I do intend to experiment with =
a
number of them. A couple of folks suggested various chloromethanes, but on=
e
of our members who is a chemist, but who never posts on chemistry questions=
,
advised against any chlorinated solvents. He said that in the heat of the
kiln the chlorine will combine with the colorants, particularly iron and
chrome, resulting in the colorant becoming fugitive, much as it does in a
salt kiln. When I get around to testing the various suggested thinners, I
will report the results.
I tried to send a thank you to everyone who replied, but if I inadvertently
missed someone, please accept these blanket thanks.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 3:26 PM, James Freeman
wrote:
> Some weeks ago I posted about problems I was having in trying to spray
> oxides through an internal mix airbrush. The problem was that the solids
> settled almost immediately, thus clogging the pick up tube in the cup. I
> floated the idea of mixing the oxide ingredients in mineral oil rather th=
an
> water in the hope that the viscous nature of the oil would keep the solid=
s
> in suspension longer, but no one seemed to have any experience with such =
an
> approach.
>
Philip Poburka on fri 4 feb 11
Hi James,
I would think the chloromethanes would evaporate entirely long before any
possibility of their having a chance to effect anything chemically in the
Firing.
Of course, take special care not to breathe them ( their aeromatic vapor ),
when Spraying, since they are associated with possible transient toxic or
potentially more enduring or accruing effects.
Certainly, you may as well try other Solvents also, and, see what they do.
I have no experience with Mineral Oil other than one time, trying it as a
Solvent in it's own right, for removing 'Glue Trap' adhesive from a small
Bird, where, it did not do anything useful.
Another thing you could try, instead of Baby Oil or Mineral Oil, would be
'Soluble Oil'.
This used to be used in Motor Vehicle Cooling Systems, and, in Machine Shop
applications, and, is inexpensive, easy to get, and, pretty well benign, an=
d
can be 'thinned' with Water or Water and Alcohol.
There are a number of related products also, which are thinned with Water
for lubricating or effecting Cooling Water for better surface tension or
adhesion or whatever, so, other things also along that line may be worth
looking into.
Benign Materials are always a lot less hassle and no worries or cumbersome
Breathing Apparatus and so on!
Phil
L v
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Freeman"
>I unloaded the kiln with my airbrushed oxide mixed in mineral oil test. A=
s
> expected, the oil caused no adverse effects, and the fired results are
> indistinguishable from the previous test with oxide in water. The only
> difference is that the internal mix Paasche airbrush applies a much finer
> coat of material than the cheap external mix airbrush I typically use, so
> I
> will have to compensate by spraying for a bit longer. The precise contro=
l
> afforded by the double action internal mix airbrush more than makes up fo=
r
> the tiny bit of extra effort required.
>
> In my test, the oxide was applied over the glaze. For the next test of
> the
> mineral oil base I will apply some oxide under the glaze to see if it
> causes
> any glaze application or firing problems. I've never been much of a
> believer in the oil-and-dust-causing-crawling theory, so I guess this wil=
l
> be a pretty severe test of that idea. I'll report back with the results.
>
> In terms of thinning the oil, I received a large number of suggestions of=
f
> list. Some of the suggestions include turpentine, turpenoid, alcohol,
> Zippo
> lighter fluid, and charcoal lighter fluid. I do intend to experiment wit=
h
> a
> number of them. A couple of folks suggested various chloromethanes, but
> one
> of our members who is a chemist, but who never posts on chemistry
> questions,
> advised against any chlorinated solvents. He said that in the heat of th=
e
> kiln the chlorine will combine with the colorants, particularly iron and
> chrome, resulting in the colorant becoming fugitive, much as it does in a
> salt kiln. When I get around to testing the various suggested thinners, =
I
> will report the results.
>
> I tried to send a thank you to everyone who replied, but if I
> inadvertently
> missed someone, please accept these blanket thanks.
>
> All the best.
>
> ...James
>
> James Freeman
marci Boskie's Mama =3D^..^=3D on sat 5 feb 11
> James Freeman wrote:
>In my test, the oxide was applied over the glaze. For the next test of th=
e
>mineral oil base I will apply some oxide under the glaze to see if it caus=
es
>any glaze application or firing problems. I've never been much of a
>believer in the oil-and-dust-causing-crawling theory, so I guess this will
>be a pretty severe test of that idea.
Dont know if this helps, but I make porcelain jewelry pieces
either clear glazed so I can later chinapaint them or I color them
with underglaze watered down like watercolor paints , then clear
glazed. I use cone 6 Laguna Frost as my clay and I once-fire the
pieces. I have not had a problem with the glaze crawling over
the u/g , even if I apply it heavier and the only issues I have
with dust is some minor pinholing which doesnt seem to happen when
I use the u/g colors but does happen on the clay itself unless I
lightly spray it with water before I glaze.
I use commercial u/g, mostly Velvet Underglazes which are water
based.. but since IM once-firing, Id dont burn out the binder before
I glaze. Glaze goes right over the U/g .
Then again , it might work differently if you bisque fire
first but I dont think it would...
The oil medium might be an issue though . I dont know if
something less viscous and more volatile would help? Like Lavendar
oil? ( with alcohol to thin )
marci the chinapainter
marci Boskie's Mama =3D^..^=3D on sat 5 feb 11
> Philip Poburka said:
>
>Benign Materials are always a lot less hassle and no worries or cumbersome
>Breathing Apparatus and so on!
Except , wouldnt you STILL want to wear some kind of breathing
apparatus if you're airbrushing? Even benign substances
aspirated would not be good..
marci the chinapainter
Philip Poburka on sat 5 feb 11
The Breathing apparatus would not have to be as sophisticated, or, likely,
as cumbersome, if working with approximately benign orders of aeromatic
Solvents, such as Ethyl Alcohol or Turpentine.
I was addressing situations of spraying Dichloromethane, which, relatively,
would be regarded as less friendly to a Liver or Nervous system, than, say,
things which are friendlier.
Actual conditions of spraying, of course, will effect results of all sorts.
Ones usual modes of preventing aspiration of Air borne particulates when
Spraying, can remain the same when the liquids the particles are suspended
in remains of a same order of benign.
Sorry about the ambiguity/ommission.
----- Original Message -----
From: "marci Boskie's Mama =3D^..^=3D"
>> Philip Poburka said:
>>
>>Benign Materials are always a lot less hassle and no worries or cumbersom=
e
>>Breathing Apparatus and so on!
>
>
> Except , wouldnt you STILL want to wear some kind of breathing
> apparatus if you're airbrushing? Even benign substances
> aspirated would not be good..
> marci the chinapainter
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