Fred Parker on fri 11 feb 11
I have decided to make handles a priority for 2011. Currently, about the=
=3D
only things I put handles on are mugs. I need to learn how to add them t=
=3D
o
small trays, dishes etc.
My problem is this: When I form and attach a handle to the edge of a thi=
=3D
n
tray I generally wait until the tray reaches leather hard first. I then
score and slip, then press the handle (typically a patterned, flattened
snake) into place. All is just fine until the handle dries to leather ha=
=3D
rd,
at which time I get MANY cracked handles and recycled trays.
I was wondering if anyone has experience using paper clay for this sort o=
=3D
f
thing, and if so, does it work? The trays I am making are about 1/4" to
3/8" thick, flat with a gentle curve in the edges similar to a sushi plat=
=3D
e.
I am trying to connect the handles directly to the thin edges.
I will certainly appreciate any advice. Many thanks...
Fred Parker
Lis Allison on fri 11 feb 11
On February 11, 2011, Fred Parker wrote:
>
> My problem is this: When I form and attach a handle to the edge of a
> thin tray I generally wait until the tray reaches leather hard first.
> I then score and slip, then press the handle (typically a patterned,
> flattened snake) into place. All is just fine until the handle dries
> to leather hard, at which time I get MANY cracked handles and recycled
> trays.
Yes, and they look so good when they are just made! I love handles and put
them on all kinds of things and I've run into that problem too. Here are
two tricks you can try to solve the problem of the handles cracking off
the dishes (which they do because they are softer than the dish when you
put them together).
First, sometimes I make the handle at the same time as the dish and let
them both stiffen to leather hard before I put them together. This works
great with smaller handles. Try it a few times and you'll get a feel for
when they are both stiff/soft enough. For pulled handles you can give them
an approximate loop and let them stiffen like that. They'll still bend
enough to fit. Others just need to stiffen up.
For larger handles, I do that plus I wrap the handle ends of the dishes in
a bit of soft plastic (dry cleaners bags are great if you can get them)
and let them stand like that at least overnight. You just need to lightly
cover the areas where the handles attach to allow the moisture in the two
pieces to equalize. Practically always this works.
Lis
--
Elisabeth Allison
Pine Ridge Studio
website: www.pine-ridge.ca
Pottery blog: www.studio-on-the-ridge.blogspot.com
Garden blog: www.garden-on-the-ridge.blogspot.com
Birgit Wright on fri 11 feb 11
Hi Fred=3D3B I have used paper clay slip quite a bit and find it works wel=
l =3D
but if the parts you are attaching are very different in water content=3D2C=
a=3D
s in leatherhard versus fresh soft clay then it would be a good thing to wr=
=3D
ap the whole thing in plastic=3D2Cor hold in a damp cupboard till all parts=
h=3D
ave equalized in water content=3D2C then it can dry more predictably withou=
t =3D
cracking. You may need to support the handles until they are set up. I d=
=3D
o a lot of slab building and that is my solution. I would also be careful =
=3D
about how much paper to clay there is in the slip.
Good luck and Cheers=3D2C Birgit Wright
=3D20
> Date: Fri=3D2C 11 Feb 2011 12:47:27 -0500
> From: fhparker@YAHOO.COM
> Subject: Paper clay as a repair medium
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>=3D20
> I have decided to make handles a priority for 2011. Currently=3D2C about =
th=3D
e
> only things I put handles on are mugs. I need to learn how to add them to
> small trays=3D2C dishes etc.
>=3D20
> My problem is this: When I form and attach a handle to the edge of a thin
> tray I generally wait until the tray reaches leather hard first. I then
> score and slip=3D2C then press the handle (typically a patterned=3D2C fla=
tten=3D
ed
> snake) into place. All is just fine until the handle dries to leather har=
=3D
d=3D2C
> at which time I get MANY cracked handles and recycled trays.
>=3D20
> I was wondering if anyone has experience using paper clay for this sort o=
=3D
f
> thing=3D2C and if so=3D2C does it work? The trays I am making are about 1=
/4" =3D
to
> 3/8" thick=3D2C flat with a gentle curve in the edges similar to a sushi =
pl=3D
ate.
> I am trying to connect the handles directly to the thin edges.
>=3D20
> I will certainly appreciate any advice. Many thanks...
>=3D20
> Fred Parker
=3D
William & Susan Schran User on fri 11 feb 11
On 2/11/11 12:47 PM, "Fred Parker" wrote:
> My problem is this: When I form and attach a handle to the edge of a thi=
n
> tray I generally wait until the tray reaches leather hard first. I then
> score and slip, then press the handle (typically a patterned, flattened
> snake) into place. All is just fine until the handle dries to leather ha=
rd,
> at which time I get MANY cracked handles and recycled trays.
> I was wondering if anyone has experience using paper clay for this sort o=
f
> thing, and if so, does it work? The trays I am making are about 1/4" to
> 3/8" thick, flat with a gentle curve in the edges similar to a sushi plat=
e.
> I am trying to connect the handles directly to the thin edges.
Fred,
One thing I've found when adding handles to drier surfaces is if I wet the
area where the handle will be attached (wet until I can easily stick my
finger nail into the clay) before applying slurry, then handle, I rarely ge=
t
any cracking between handle and pot.
I have been recently building 4 piece pots using a B-Mix/Loafers Glory type
clay (a porcelainous stoneware with no grog) and have been using paper clay
made from the clay body to assemble the parts with good results and very
little cracking.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
monkeymind88@COMCAST.NET on fri 11 feb 11
Two things: Try attaching the handles to a tray that is just damper
than leather hard. Score both the handle and tray well, slather on
slip with just a touch of vinegar added and use a firm touch to
attach. Handle with a feather touch; attach with a firm touch.
Make a cradle of foam rubber to set the tray and handles into. But
first create a plastic 'biosphere' to put it all in. Foam rubber
gives firm support, but will give as the piece shrinks. If the
handles have this soft support during the drying process, they are
less likely to crack. Cut out and cut off pieces of foam are great
for making adjustments around unique pieces. The foam also promotes a
uniform damp atmosphere in the ''biosphere' for drying.
Experiment, experiment, experiment
Cheers,
Jeanette
--
Jeanette Harris in Poulsbo WA
http://www.jeanetteharrisblog.blogspot.com
http://fiberneedlethread.blogspot.com/
http://www.washingtonpotters.org/WPA_Gallery.htm
http://www.southernarizonaclayartists.org/gallery/jeanette-harris
KATHI LESUEUR on fri 11 feb 11
Rather than paper clay I'd suggest that after you attach the handles you =
=3D
apply a coating of wax to the handle and a small area around it.=3D20
KATHI LESUEUR
http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
On Feb 11, 2011, at 12:47 PM, Fred Parker wrote:
> I have decided to make handles a priority for 2011. Currently, about =3D
the
> only things I put handles on are mugs. I need to learn how to add =3D
them to
> small trays, dishes etc.
>=3D20
> My problem is this: When I form and attach a handle to the edge of a =3D
thin
> tray I generally wait until the tray reaches leather hard first. I =3D
then
> score and slip, then press the handle (typically a patterned, =3D
flattened
> snake) into place. All is just fine until the handle dries to leather =
=3D
hard,
> at which time I get MANY cracked handles and recycled trays.
>=3D20
> I was wondering if anyone has experience using paper clay for this =3D
sort of
> thing, and if so, does it work? The trays I am making are about 1/4" =3D
to
> 3/8" thick, flat with a gentle curve in the edges similar to a sushi =3D
plate.
> I am trying to connect the handles directly to the thin edges.
>=3D20
> I will certainly appreciate any advice. Many thanks...
>=3D20
> Fred Parker
>=3D20
Steve Mills on sat 12 feb 11
In the past I used to have the same issues of drying and adhesion, so I dev=
e=3D
loped two basic rules for myself for "Handled Work", other than Pulled Hand=
l=3D
es.=3D20
For sticking them on, I use an old Toothbrush and a little water, and scrub=
t=3D
he drier surface a little. This degrades the surface enough, makes enough s=
l=3D
ip for the job (so I don't have a pot of slip as such), and is very quick a=
n=3D
d very simple.=3D20
The second rule is (like others have posted) is to cover the work long enou=
g=3D
h for the moisture to even out. In very warm weather I leave the work to dr=
y=3D
out covered=3D20
I don't lose any handled work if I keep to these two rules, and none of my =
"=3D
joints" have ever failed.....honest!
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my Ipod touch
On 11 Feb 2011, at 17:47, Fred Parker wrote:
> I have decided to make handles a priority for 2011. Currently, about the
> only things I put handles on are mugs. I need to learn how to add them t=
o=3D
> small trays, dishes etc.
>=3D20
> My problem is this: When I form and attach a handle to the edge of a thi=
n=3D
> tray I generally wait until the tray reaches leather hard first. I then
> score and slip, then press the handle (typically a patterned, flattened
> snake) into place. All is just fine until the handle dries to leather ha=
r=3D
d,
> at which time I get MANY cracked handles and recycled trays.
>=3D20
> I was wondering if anyone has experience using paper clay for this sort o=
f=3D
> thing, and if so, does it work? The trays I am making are about 1/4" to
> 3/8" thick, flat with a gentle curve in the edges similar to a sushi plat=
e=3D
.
> I am trying to connect the handles directly to the thin edges.
>=3D20
> I will certainly appreciate any advice. Many thanks...
>=3D20
> Fred Parker
David Woof on sat 12 feb 11
Hi Fred=3D2C
=3D20
I've read the advice you've been given=3D2C and have at one time or another=
t=3D
ried and used those methods as well. Most of them have been handed down a=
=3D
s potters lore because they work. =3D20
=3D20
The one thing that was not mentioned was the labor saving=3D2C fuss/time sa=
vi=3D
ng use of wax resist. =3D20
=3D20
I will put the handle(s) on=3D2C tent the piece in plastic for over night t=
o =3D
let the moisture migrate to evenness between the parts=3D2C by then the cl=
ay=3D
has set up to where I can compress a seam with out distortion or marring t=
=3D
he surface if needed=3D2C and then wax the entire handle and join area. Wi=
th=3D
the wax moisture barrier in place the handle moisture must now migrate bac=
=3D
k thru and out of the body of the piece. If I can invert the piece for fina=
=3D
l drying so much the better. If not then for more delicate or complex work=
=3D
=3D2C a bit more light tenting and un tenting may be in order to help the m=
oi=3D
sture content remain uniform through out the piece as it dries. =3D20
Your thin trays and handles are perfect candidates for this method.
=3D20
The reservation I have re paper clay is that while it may be successfully s=
=3D
moothed over a crack to hide it=3D2C you still have a crack hidden in a par=
t =3D
that folks depend on to be strong. I suppose moms and dads shouldn't drink=
=3D
hot coffee while nursing a child but they do and I don't want my mug=3D2C =
di=3D
sh or tray=3D2C and handle parting company in this or any scenario.
=3D20
We know that paper clay is not as dense and strong as a fully vitrified non=
=3D
paper clay body so I don't like to use it as an attaching medium either. =
=3D
Rather than short cuts=3D2C learn the time proven right ways of the craft. =
S=3D
ort of like the folks that imagine that they can "glue" on a broken part wi=
=3D
th a micro thin crust of fired glaze between the surfaces holding it all to=
=3D
gether. Just give it one good accidental bump and potential disaster......
=3D20
We are the keepers of the knowledge=3D2C and in buying our work our patrons=
i=3D
mply trust in us to protect them.
=3D20
David Woof
=3D20
__________________________________________
8a. Paper clay as a repair medium
Posted by: "Fred Parker" fhparker@YAHOO.COM=3D20
Date: Fri Feb 11=3D2C 2011 11:57 am ((PST))
=3D20
I have decided to make handles a priority for 2011. Currently=3D2C about th=
e
only things I put handles on are mugs. I need to learn how to add them to
small trays=3D2C dishes etc.
=3D20
My problem is this: When I form and attach a handle to the edge of a thin
tray I generally wait until the tray reaches leather hard first. I then
score and slip=3D2C then press the handle (typically a patterned=3D2C flatt=
ened
snake) into place. All is just fine until the handle dries to leather hard=
=3D
=3D2C
at which time I get MANY cracked handles and recycled trays.
=3D20
I was wondering if anyone has experience using paper clay for this sort of
thing=3D2C and if so=3D2C does it work? The trays I am making are about 1/4=
" to
3/8" thick=3D2C flat with a gentle curve in the edges similar to a sushi pl=
at=3D
e.
I am trying to connect the handles directly to the thin edges.
=3D20
I will certainly appreciate any advice. Many thanks...
=3D20
=3D20
=3D
May Luk on sat 12 feb 11
Hi Fred;
You being an architect, I am reluctant to inquire about the thickness
of the handle Vs the tray, as you understand physics and engineering
better than I do. But I will ask anyway cause sometimes we are so
focused at the work so closely and we forgot: Is the tray bearing the
weight of the handle okay? Are the thickness vary too much?
When I do handles on mugs or jugs, I dried the wares upside down plus
wrapping them up for moisture equalization. The handle shape falls
nicer when they dried and the movement of the handle while drying
would not create cracks on the wares. I wonder if you handle needs
some support for drying.
Regards
May
Brooklyn NY
On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Fred Parker wrote:
> I have decided to make handles a priority for 2011. =3DA0Currently, about=
t=3D
he
> only things I put handles on are mugs. =3DA0I need to learn how to add th=
em=3D
to
> small trays, dishes etc.
>
> My problem is this: =3DA0When I form and attach a handle to the edge of a=
t=3D
hin
> tray I generally wait until the tray reaches leather hard first. =3DA0I t=
he=3D
n
> score and slip, then press the handle (typically a patterned, flattened
> snake) into place. =3DA0All is just fine until the handle dries to leathe=
r =3D
hard,
> at which time I get MANY cracked handles and recycled trays.
>
> I was wondering if anyone has experience using paper clay for this sort o=
=3D
f
> thing, and if so, does it work? =3DA0The trays I am making are about 1/4"=
t=3D
o
> 3/8" thick, flat with a gentle curve in the edges similar to a sushi plat=
=3D
e.
> =3DA0I am trying to connect the handles directly to the thin edges.
>
> I will certainly appreciate any advice. =3DA0Many thanks...
>
> Fred Parker
>
--=3D20
http://twitter.com/MayLuk
http://www.takemehomeware.com/
Eleanora Eden on sat 12 feb 11
Hi Fred and all,
I have read all the responses with great interest. I used to use
the wax resist strategy but now I do some raw decoration so that
is out. I use the cover tightly with plastic combined with the
burnish the place it tends to crack strategies now with pretty
consistent success. The occasional crack that develops gets
further vigorous burnishing.
Nobody has really focused on the fact that according to what you
say you are trying to attach the handle only to the edge of the tray.
Do you mean that none of the handle clay goes under or over the
edge? Maybe you could make the ends of the dish a bit thinner
where the handles go so that you could be adding that clay back
to the underneath of the dish with the handle. Wouldn't that make
it stronger and give you more possibility of success with your
handles?
Best,
Eleanora
The trays I am making are about 1/4" to
> 3/8" thick, flat with a gentle curve in the edges similar to a sushi pla=
te.
> I am trying to connect the handles directly to the thin edges.
--
Bellows Falls Vermont
www.eleanoraeden.com
Fred Parker on mon 14 feb 11
Eleanora: I have received so many very good suggestions and comments abo=
=3D
ut
this that I cannot help pondering the entire issue further and deeper. Y=
=3D
ou
are correct in that I have been attempting to attach ONLY to the edge of =
=3D
a
relatively thin slab. While my cracking problem has not been at the
attachment points (cracking has been somewhere near the middle) I can't h=
=3D
elp
noticing that visually, this approach is not really very attractive. It
seems structurally unsure of itself. A lesson I learned doing sculpture =
=3D
in
metals long ago is that visual imbalance in design usually means somethin=
=3D
g
else is very wrong. This works both ways: physical imbalance also usuall=
=3D
y
flags visual imbalance -- or should.
Your suggestion to attach handles underneath the dish is probably what I
should be doing. To be completely honest, I considered this earlier but
decided because the dish was still a bit flexible "it might be too
difficult" and so I took the coward's way out. That never works. I shou=
=3D
ld
know it by now.
Fred=3D20=3D20=3D20=3D20
On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 10:58:33 -0500, Eleanora Eden w=
=3D
rote:
>Hi Fred and all,
>
>I have read all the responses with great interest. I used to use
>the wax resist strategy but now I do some raw decoration so that
>is out. I use the cover tightly with plastic combined with the
>burnish the place it tends to crack strategies now with pretty
>consistent success. The occasional crack that develops gets
>further vigorous burnishing.
>
>Nobody has really focused on the fact that according to what you
>say you are trying to attach the handle only to the edge of the tray.
>Do you mean that none of the handle clay goes under or over the
>edge? Maybe you could make the ends of the dish a bit thinner
>where the handles go so that you could be adding that clay back
>to the underneath of the dish with the handle. Wouldn't that make
>it stronger and give you more possibility of success with your
>handles?
>
>Best,
>
>Eleanora
>
>
>
>The trays I am making are about 1/4" to
>> 3/8" thick, flat with a gentle curve in the edges similar to a sushi =
=3D
plate.
>> I am trying to connect the handles directly to the thin edges.
>--
>Bellows Falls Vermont
>www.eleanoraeden.com
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