jonathan byler on mon 28 feb 11
it is not quite as easy as that... depending on where you live you
need to calculate for snow or wind loadings or both. you may even
have a building code you need to follow. even if you don't, it
doesn't hurt to follow the guidelines in the international residential
code as a bare minimum. especially if you are going to have other
people around. a roof is kind of a big deal, and having one fall on
you or blow off due to poor design is and even bigger deal.
On Feb 28, 2011, at 4:03 PM, David Hendley wrote:
> Dale, coming from a potter who has burned his wood-frame kiln shed,
> listen to the voice of experience and make your kiln shed out of
> non-flammable
> materials! Especially if, like I, you will be firing a wood kiln.
> There are
> just
> too many chances for something to go wrong, with a stray ember
> igniting the
> shed.
>
> You can, without a doubt, build a steel-framed shed for much less than
> your quoted price. I bought used 3" pipe for the posts, and actually
> 2"
> pipe should be fine. Then just buy 8" "C" (named for the shape) steel
> framing and weld it to the posts. Add a few purlins, and you're
> ready for
> the roofing. My 400 s.f. shed was just a few hundred dollars for the
> framing. It took me a few days to weld up - with your help positioning
> and holding, a real welder could do the job in a day for a few hundred
> dollars (these are 10 year-old prices - it would probably be more now,
> but nothing like the thousands of dollars you were quoted).
>
> If you built your own studio, you should be able to handle switching
> from building with wood to designing and building with steel.
> Also, to my mind, a "shed" is not bolted to a slab - it is a "pole
> building",
> which means the posts (pipe) are set in the ground and the framing
> is attached to them. Perhaps this construction method is what is
> adding
> to the high price you were quoted.
>
> Good luck,
> David Hendley
> david@farmpots.com
> http://www.farmpots.com
> http://www.thewahooligans.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dale Sizemore"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 2:06 PM
> Subject: Which roof framing for kiln area?
>
>
>> I'm planning to build three kilns on a covered concrete slab
>> measuring 32
>> feet wide by 24 feet in length. I am faced with deciding whether to
>> go
>> with
>> all metal for the shed roof system, for which I have gotten a bid for
>> $5617,
>> materials only, or with a wood structure of 9 - 6x6 posts, 2x12 beams
>> bolted
>> to the posts, with 2x6 rafters, tech shield decking (radiant
>> barrier), and
>> sheet metal roofing for $2079- $2254 (lower price if 2x4 purlins
>> are used
>> instead of the tech shields). The roof height will be 9 feet on the
>> low
>> end
>> and 15 feet on the high end. I built my own 40 by 40 studio recently
>> (double
>> wall construction), so have experience with the wood framing. I'm
>> told
>> that
>> the metal building kit would be relatively easy to erect and bolt
>> to the
>> slab, so that might save on time. We will have a soda kiln, wood
>> fired
>> kiln,
>> and an extra tall gas fired fiber stoneware kiln. Raku kilns will
>> be in a
>> separate open structure located 100 feet away.
>> Is it worth it to spend more than double for the metal vs. the wood
>> framing?
Dale Sizemore on mon 28 feb 11
I'm planning to build three kilns on a covered concrete slab measuring 32
feet wide by 24 feet in length. I am faced with deciding whether to go with
all metal for the shed roof system, for which I have gotten a bid for $5617=
,
materials only, or with a wood structure of 9 - 6x6 posts, 2x12 beams bolte=
d
to the posts, with 2x6 rafters, tech shield decking (radiant barrier), and
sheet metal roofing for $2079- $2254 (lower price if 2x4 purlins are used
instead of the tech shields). The roof height will be 9 feet on the low end
and 15 feet on the high end. I built my own 40 by 40 studio recently (doubl=
e
wall construction), so have experience with the wood framing. I'm told that
the metal building kit would be relatively easy to erect and bolt to the
slab, so that might save on time. We will have a soda kiln, wood fired kiln=
,
and an extra tall gas fired fiber stoneware kiln. Raku kilns will be in a
separate open structure located 100 feet away.
Is it worth it to spend more than double for the metal vs. the wood framing=
?
I'm leaning towards saving the money to go towards the materials for the
kilns.
Thanks for your input,
Dale Sizemore
Sizemore Studios
Moreland, GA
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of mel jacobson
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:43 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: clayart room use/open public/nceca
no one will need nceca credentials to get into the clayart room.
anyone can use it. all day thursday, all day friday.
clayarters will need nceca credentials to enter the
vendors hall, and any nceca programs.
we hope clayarters attending nceca will register.
it is the best way to be at the conference.
no lurking around. `hey bill, can i use your credentials for
two hours?` not a good idea.
but, if you just want to enjoy the company of clayart friends...
have at it.
programs most of the day thursday, and the mug exchange
will be announced/ it will be early thursday eve.
(mug chair is in charge of everything, and she must
be obeyed. muggettes will help her, as usual.
orange dots will be allocated via mel's pocket.
hugs mandatory. and, don't be asking for two..those
things are very expensive.
marta's room, and barb brown's room will be open
most days for parties. no more than 42 people
however can crowd into marta's room.
from: minnetonka, mn
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
new book: http://www.21stcenturykilns.com
alternate: melpots7575@gmail.com
Hank Murrow on mon 28 feb 11
On Feb 28, 2011, at 12:06 PM, Dale Sizemore wrote:
> I'm planning to build three kilns on a covered concrete slab measuring =
=3D
32
> feet wide by 24 feet in length. I am faced with deciding whether to go =
=3D
with
> all metal for the shed roof system, for which I have gotten a bid for =3D
$5617,
> materials only, or with a wood structure of 9 - 6x6 posts, 2x12 beams =3D
bolted
> to the posts, with 2x6 rafters, tech shield decking (radiant barrier), =
=3D
and
> sheet metal roofing for $2079- $2254 (lower price if 2x4 purlins are =3D
used
> instead of the tech shields). The roof height will be 9 feet on the =3D
low end
> and 15 feet on the high end. I built my own 40 by 40 studio recently =3D
(double
> wall construction), so have experience with the wood framing. I'm told =
=3D
that
> the metal building kit would be relatively easy to erect and bolt to =3D
the
> slab, so that might save on time. We will have a soda kiln, wood fired =
=3D
kiln,
> and an extra tall gas fired fiber stoneware kiln. Raku kilns will be =3D
in a
> separate open structure located 100 feet away.
> Is it worth it to spend more than double for the metal vs. the wood =3D
framing?
Hank replies:
Dale, ifyou have the skills to penetrate the roof structure safely with =3D
various chimneys and exhaust flues, then I would say, "Go for wood =3D
framing".
However, your Insurance Co. may give you a discount for metal framing. A =
=3D
discount of $100/year would add up in time.
I have always built with wood, and never had a problem with it.
Cheers, Hank=3D
Patty on mon 28 feb 11
They say the steel buildings are easy to construct but have you talked to
someone who has done one. We have heard horror stories about a man and wif=
e
struggling for months to get one erected. Be sure to find a happy customer
before you invest.
Patty Kaliher
David Hendley on mon 28 feb 11
Dale, coming from a potter who has burned his wood-frame kiln shed,
listen to the voice of experience and make your kiln shed out of
non-flammable
materials! Especially if, like I, you will be firing a wood kiln. There are
just
too many chances for something to go wrong, with a stray ember igniting the
shed.
You can, without a doubt, build a steel-framed shed for much less than
your quoted price. I bought used 3" pipe for the posts, and actually 2"
pipe should be fine. Then just buy 8" "C" (named for the shape) steel
framing and weld it to the posts. Add a few purlins, and you're ready for
the roofing. My 400 s.f. shed was just a few hundred dollars for the
framing. It took me a few days to weld up - with your help positioning
and holding, a real welder could do the job in a day for a few hundred
dollars (these are 10 year-old prices - it would probably be more now,
but nothing like the thousands of dollars you were quoted).
If you built your own studio, you should be able to handle switching
from building with wood to designing and building with steel.
Also, to my mind, a "shed" is not bolted to a slab - it is a "pole
building",
which means the posts (pipe) are set in the ground and the framing
is attached to them. Perhaps this construction method is what is adding
to the high price you were quoted.
Good luck,
David Hendley
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
http://www.thewahooligans.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Sizemore"
To:
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 2:06 PM
Subject: Which roof framing for kiln area?
> I'm planning to build three kilns on a covered concrete slab measuring 32
> feet wide by 24 feet in length. I am faced with deciding whether to go
> with
> all metal for the shed roof system, for which I have gotten a bid for
> $5617,
> materials only, or with a wood structure of 9 - 6x6 posts, 2x12 beams
> bolted
> to the posts, with 2x6 rafters, tech shield decking (radiant barrier), an=
d
> sheet metal roofing for $2079- $2254 (lower price if 2x4 purlins are used
> instead of the tech shields). The roof height will be 9 feet on the low
> end
> and 15 feet on the high end. I built my own 40 by 40 studio recently
> (double
> wall construction), so have experience with the wood framing. I'm told
> that
> the metal building kit would be relatively easy to erect and bolt to the
> slab, so that might save on time. We will have a soda kiln, wood fired
> kiln,
> and an extra tall gas fired fiber stoneware kiln. Raku kilns will be in a
> separate open structure located 100 feet away.
> Is it worth it to spend more than double for the metal vs. the wood
> framing?
Paul Haigh on tue 1 mar 11
I built my shed out of wood, with a wide area cut-out for the chimney. I pu=
t insulation, then spare metal roofing around the chimney, and loosely nail=
ed flashing on the closest beams as a heat shield (probably not necessary).=
I welded a small frame onto the chimney bracing steel up a couple of feet =
for a bit of roofing to keep snow out (good thing this year). It's worked g=
reat.
There's a pic at: http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/2410_10313=
53905934_1287984025_30102942_7110_n.jpg (with my friend dave stringing us a=
hammock.. he woke up saying "man- it got hot out"- though he may have been=
high)
You can see the bracing sort of here: http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto=
s-ak-snc1/2410_1031353825932_1287984025_30102941_6801_n.jpg
Paul Haigh
Wiley Hill Mudworks
Web: http://wileyhill.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wiley-Hill-Mudworks/108145139230652
etsy: http://www.etsy.com/shop/WileyHillMudworks
Doug Trott on tue 1 mar 11
You could also look at using metal conduit for the frame - some growers do
that for hoop houses. Then attach a metal roof with TEK screws.
Doug
http://www.prairie-garden.com
David Finkelnburg on tue 1 mar 11
Dale,
The decision is one only you can make.
My experience is I built a wood structure for roof, windbreak for my ca=
r
kiln and more than a decade later I have yet to burn it down. All roof
structure including purlins within 18" of the stack is steel. That said,
after reading the wise advice of David Hendley to the list, if I had it to
do again I would build entirely with steel, or at the very least for the
roof.
There are things you can do with wood. Reflective material as was bid t=
o
you helps, certain paint also. Put sheet metal 1" off (below) the wood to
act as a thermal shield that is non-combustible.
The problem, though, is wood dries over time, kilns deteriorate over
time to leak heat and even flame. The steel is an insurance policy for a
worry free kiln cover for a lifetime.
Good potting!
Dave Finkelnburg
http://www.mattanddavesclays.com
-----------------------------
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011, Dale Sizemore
wrote: "I'm planning to build three kilns on a covered concrete slab
measuring 32
feet wide by 24 feet in length....Is it worth it to spend more than double
for the metal vs. the wood framing?"
Steve Mills on tue 1 mar 11
Personally I'd go for metal every time!
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my Ipod touch
On 28 Feb 2011, at 21:02, Hank Murrow wrote:
> On Feb 28, 2011, at 12:06 PM, Dale Sizemore wrote:
>=3D20
>> I'm planning to build three kilns on a covered concrete slab measuring 3=
2=3D
>> feet wide by 24 feet in length. I am faced with deciding whether to go w=
i=3D
th
>> all metal for the shed roof system, for which I have gotten a bid for $5=
6=3D
17,
>> materials only, or with a wood structure of 9 - 6x6 posts, 2x12 beams bo=
l=3D
ted
>> to the posts, with 2x6 rafters, tech shield decking (radiant barrier), a=
n=3D
d
>> sheet metal roofing for $2079- $2254 (lower price if 2x4 purlins are use=
d=3D
>> instead of the tech shields). The roof height will be 9 feet on the low =
e=3D
nd
>> and 15 feet on the high end. I built my own 40 by 40 studio recently (do=
u=3D
ble
>> wall construction), so have experience with the wood framing. I'm told t=
h=3D
at
>> the metal building kit would be relatively easy to erect and bolt to the
>> slab, so that might save on time. We will have a soda kiln, wood fired k=
i=3D
ln,
>> and an extra tall gas fired fiber stoneware kiln. Raku kilns will be in =
a=3D
>> separate open structure located 100 feet away.
>> Is it worth it to spend more than double for the metal vs. the wood fram=
i=3D
ng?
>=3D20
> Hank replies:
>=3D20
> Dale, ifyou have the skills to penetrate the roof structure safely with v=
a=3D
rious chimneys and exhaust flues, then I would say, "Go for wood framing".
>=3D20
> However, your Insurance Co. may give you a discount for metal framing. A =
d=3D
iscount of $100/year would add up in time.
>=3D20
> I have always built with wood, and never had a problem with it.
>=3D20
> Cheers, Hank
David Hendley on tue 1 mar 11
----- Original Message -----
> it is not quite as easy as that... depending on where you live you
> need to calculate for snow or wind loadings or both. you may even
> have a building code you need to follow. even if you don't, it
> doesn't hurt to follow the guidelines in the international residential
> code as a bare minimum. especially if you are going to have other
> people around. a roof is kind of a big deal, and having one fall on
> you or blow off due to poor design is and even bigger deal.
It's pretty easy Jonathan......
Not necessarily the building, but the designing!
I hate for people to be intimidated and not do things for themselves.
There is no need to "calculate" anything. You have your dimensions
and look at a table that tells you exactly what the UBC requires. The
supplier where you buy your components will undoubtedly have one.
Even if there is not a building inspector where you are, one should
always build to code!
Dale and I, in Texas and Georgia, are not concerned with snow,
but there are tables for snowy areas that take that into account.
Your local supplier will know what you need. Mine, and suspect
most, will even do everything for you. Tell them you want, for instance,
a 20 X 20 shed and they will make your materials list, down to how
many screws you need.
David Hendley
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
http://www.thewahooligans.com
jonathan byler on tue 1 mar 11
The borate solution being water soluble it only stays put if your wood
doesn't get wet anymore. probably a good idea to paint any wood that
will be directly exposed to rain anyway. I have been thinking about
trying the borate solution added to the paint to make an anti mold
paint, but I'm not sure if it would help keep mold down or not, since
last I looked it is not listed to control black mold, only fungus/
mushroom type stuff that grows in wet wood.
On Mar 1, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Dale Sizemore wrote:
> Thanks Jonathan, great idea soaking the framing members with the
> borate
> solution. We have major problems with carpenter bees here. I could use
> pressure treated lumber, just hate handling that wet chemical and of
> course
> tons of shrinkage isn't so good for the screws through the metal
> roof. I
> read up on the two products you recommended but don't see anything
> about
> fireproofing, but did see a Flameproof product that is supposed to
> work for
> that. It's water soluble but under the roof that doesn't matter.
> Thanks
> again for your input.
> Dale
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jonathan byler [mailto:jebyler2@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 4:19 PM
> To: Dale Sizemore
> Subject: Re: Which roof framing for kiln area?
>
> I have never seen a metal framed kiln shed, except for the one that I
> am building. and I am only doing that to take all chance away that
> the safety people at the school here would shut us down. I would have
> much rather built this out of wood and saved a bunch of money and
> time. if your roof is a good 4 feet above the kiln, i don't see the
> wood construction as being a problem. worst case you could put a
> piece of thin sheet metal over the top of the klin (with a good sized
> air gap) in order to keep any radiant heat from causing a problem. if
> you have plenty of ventilation (which you should anyway) I don't see
> the wood getting hot and causing a problem. If you are concerned
> about the wood burning up (or with insects eating it for that mater,
> you can soak the beams with a borate solution (tim-bor and bora care
> are two brand names) which will provide fire proofing and bug
> proofing)
>
>
> On Feb 28, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Dale Sizemore wrote:
>
>> I'm planning to build three kilns on a covered concrete slab
>> measuring 32
>> feet wide by 24 feet in length. I am faced with deciding whether to
>> go with
>> all metal for the shed roof system, for which I have gotten a bid
>> for $5617,
>> materials only, or with a wood structure of 9 - 6x6 posts, 2x12
>> beams bolted
>> to the posts, with 2x6 rafters, tech shield decking (radiant
>> barrier), and
>> sheet metal roofing for $2079- $2254 (lower price if 2x4 purlins are
>> used
>> instead of the tech shields). The roof height will be 9 feet on the
>> low end
>> and 15 feet on the high end. I built my own 40 by 40 studio recently
>> (double
>> wall construction), so have experience with the wood framing. I'm
>> told that
>> the metal building kit would be relatively easy to erect and bolt to
>> the
>> slab, so that might save on time. We will have a soda kiln, wood
>> fired kiln,
>> and an extra tall gas fired fiber stoneware kiln. Raku kilns will be
>> in a
>> separate open structure located 100 feet away.
>> Is it worth it to spend more than double for the metal vs. the wood
>> framing?
>>
>> I'm leaning towards saving the money to go towards the materials for
>> the
>> kilns.
>> Thanks for your input,
>> Dale Sizemore
>> Sizemore Studios
>> Moreland, GA
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of mel
>> jacobson
>> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:43 PM
>> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>> Subject: clayart room use/open public/nceca
>>
>> no one will need nceca credentials to get into the clayart room.
>> anyone can use it. all day thursday, all day friday.
>>
>> clayarters will need nceca credentials to enter the
>> vendors hall, and any nceca programs.
>>
>> we hope clayarters attending nceca will register.
>> it is the best way to be at the conference.
>> no lurking around. `hey bill, can i use your credentials for
>> two hours?` not a good idea.
>>
>> but, if you just want to enjoy the company of clayart friends...
>> have at it.
>>
>> programs most of the day thursday, and the mug exchange
>> will be announced/ it will be early thursday eve.
>> (mug chair is in charge of everything, and she must
>> be obeyed. muggettes will help her, as usual.
>>
>> orange dots will be allocated via mel's pocket.
>> hugs mandatory. and, don't be asking for two..those
>> things are very expensive.
>>
>> marta's room, and barb brown's room will be open
>> most days for parties. no more than 42 people
>> however can crowd into marta's room.
>> from: minnetonka, mn
>> website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
>> clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
>> new book: http://www.21stcenturykilns.com
>> alternate: melpots7575@gmail.com
>
John Britt on tue 1 mar 11
Go with metal. I have I-beams with bar joists.
www.johnbrittpottery.com
Snail Scott on mon 7 mar 11
On Feb 28, 2011, at 4:03 PM, David Hendley wrote:
> You can, without a doubt, build a steel-framed shed for much less than
> your quoted price...
When I built my last shed, I used scrap mobile-home siding.
Nearly free, rustproof, and easy to use. Had to work around
the window holes, though. Ugly as heck, but it did OK.
-Snail
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