Kathy Forer on sun 6 mar 11
I over-cooked my kiln a while back. The cone melted in the sitter, fusing t=
h=3D
e moveable rod and two replaceable arms.=3D20
Would it be sufficient to use a propane torch to melt the parts free or do =
I=3D
need to dismantle the whole kiln sitter box? Is it a good idea anyway afte=
r=3D
going to cone 12 on a cone 6 kiln by error. The elements and bricks look o=
k=3D
ay. Econokiln c 1970's.=3D20
Do I need to take it apart again?
Thanks! Kathy
Kathy Forer
www.foreverink.com
Vince Pitelka on mon 7 mar 11
John Post wrote:
"Whenever I repair kilns for people who have over-fired them due to the kil=
n
sitter sticking, I order a new kiln sitter and just replace it."
John -
Am I understanding you correctly? If so, this is overkill. An over-fired
kiln has no effect on the exterior components of the kiln sitter. Replacin=
g
the whole kiln sitter makes no sense. It is not difficult to disconnect th=
e
electrical, remove the front panel of the kiln sitter, unscrew the kiln
sitter from the surface of the kiln, remove the whole assembly, unbolt the
sensor tube, replace it and the sensing rod, reassemble, install new cone
support prongs, and use the supplied gauge to adjust the position of the
sensing rod.
We no longer have any kiln-sitter kilns, but through the many years that we
had only kiln-sitter kilns, we had quite a few serious over-fires, and I
never replaced a whole kiln-sitter. It would never occur to me to do that,
because it would be a waste of money. It is a simple matter to replace the
defective components, whether the switch contacts, sensor tube, sensing rod=
,
cone supports, etc.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Steve Mills on mon 7 mar 11
Heat the fused bits up with a small (kitchen) gas torch then put a cup or s=
i=3D
milar under it and dribble cold water on it. The thermal shock will sort it=
o=3D
ut. Repeat if necessary!
NB Disconnect the kiln FIRST!!
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my Ipod touch
On 6 Mar 2011, at 22:14, Kathy Forer wrote:
> I over-cooked my kiln a while back. The cone melted in the sitter, fusing=
t=3D
he moveable rod and two replaceable arms.=3D20
>=3D20
> Would it be sufficient to use a propane torch to melt the parts free or d=
o=3D
I need to dismantle the whole kiln sitter box? Is it a good idea anyway af=
t=3D
er going to cone 12 on a cone 6 kiln by error. The elements and bricks look=
o=3D
kay. Econokiln c 1970's.=3D20
>=3D20
> Do I need to take it apart again?
>=3D20
> Thanks! Kathy
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Kathy Forer
> www.foreverink.com
Arnold Howard on mon 7 mar 11
On 3/6/2011 4:14 PM, Kathy Forer wrote:
> I over-cooked my kiln a while back. The cone melted in the sitter, fusing=
the moveable rod and two replaceable arms.
------------
Kathy, you might be able to remove the melted cone by chipping it away
with pliers and then sanding the rod with emery cloth. You should check
the Kiln Sitter rod for warpage. Remove it and roll it over a flat surface.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
John Post on mon 7 mar 11
Whenever I repair kilns for people who have over-fired them due to the
kiln sitter sticking, I order a new kiln sitter and just replace it.
Copy down all of the information from the side of your kiln and the
kiln sitter information if there is any so you can tell give this
information to your ceramics supplier.
Kiln sitter tube assemblies come in different lengths based on the
type of box they are mounted in. Kiln sitters are only held in by a
few screws and they are an easy replacement. While I am at it, I
usually recommend installing a new limit timer motor too. The last
time I did this for someone the total cost for both parts was probably
around $50.
Once you have taken off the metal box covering the elements you should
also check all of the wire connections in the kiln to make sure they
are tight and the ends of the wires are shiny. Electricity flows best
through tight shiny connections.
Think of this as a tune up for your old kiln. The sitter and the
limit timer make sure your kiln shuts off. Since you over-fired your
kiln, something went wrong with one or both of them (you may have a
kiln without a limit timer). Replacing these items while you are
inspecting your kiln ends up saving time and money in the long run.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
http://www.johnpost.us
Follow me on Twitter
https://twitter.com/UCSArtTeacher
On Mar 6, 2011, at 5:14 PM, Kathy Forer wrote:
> I over-cooked my kiln a while back. The cone melted in the sitter,
> fusing the moveable rod and two replaceable arms.
>
> Would it be sufficient to use a propane torch to melt the parts free
> or do I need to dismantle the whole kiln sitter box? Is it a good
> idea anyway after going to cone 12 on a cone 6 kiln by error. The
> elements and bricks look okay. Econokiln c 1970's.
>
> Do I need to take it apart again?
>
> Thanks! Kathy
>
>
> Kathy Forer
> www.foreverink.com
William & Susan Schran User on mon 7 mar 11
On 3/6/11 5:14 PM, "Kathy Forer" wrote:
> I over-cooked my kiln a while back. The cone melted in the sitter, fusing=
the
> moveable rod and two replaceable arms.
> Would it be sufficient to use a propane torch to melt the parts free or d=
o I
> need to dismantle the whole kiln sitter box? Is it a good idea anyway aft=
er
> going to cone 12 on a cone 6 kiln by error. The elements and bricks look =
okay.
> Econokiln c 1970's.
> Do I need to take it apart again?
Well Kathy, have we learned our lesson yet? ;^)
If you can pull out the two cone support arms from the refractory holder,
sometimes you can just break away the melted cone. Better would be to pull
them out and replace with new. Coat new supports with kiln wash.
As for the rod - yes, take apart, remove, break off melted cone with pliers=
,
grind as needed and check wear. If the rod has worn down, might be a good
idea to replace with new.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Bonnie Hellman on mon 7 mar 11
Hi Kathy,
In addition to the good advice from Steve Mills and Arnold Howard, I'd
mention that on my Skutt kiln, you can replace just the metal prongs/arms
that hold the cone, or you can replace the entire sitter apparatus, which
isn't a box. Neither is a "break the bank" expense.
On a previous kiln, I had the prongs/arms disintegrate and learned that
their length IS critical in having the sitter work properly.
On my current kiln, the interior brick holding the sitter got chipped, and
the round ceramic block that holds the prongs wouldn't stay in place. Once
the sitter was removed to fix the brick, it seemed like a good idea to
install a new sitter.
Anyway that was my experience.
Best,
Bonnie
Bonnie Hellman
Ouray, CO. USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Kathy Forer
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 3:15 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Melted kiln sitter
I over-cooked my kiln a while back. The cone melted in the sitter, fusing
the moveable rod and two replaceable arms.
Would it be sufficient to use a propane torch to melt the parts free or do =
I
need to dismantle the whole kiln sitter box? Is it a good idea anyway after
going to cone 12 on a cone 6 kiln by error. The elements and bricks look
okay. Econokiln c 1970's.
Do I need to take it apart again?
Thanks! Kathy
Kathy Forer
www.foreverink.com
William & Susan Schran User on mon 7 mar 11
On 3/7/11 6:35 PM, "Kathy Forer" wrote:
> The cone is utterly melted, like glass, just a small bit on the supports =
and
> tip of rod. Gentle thermal shock sounds effective. I'll let you know what
> happens, thanks for your knowing advices!
>
> The sitter rod seems pretty straight but the type K thermocouple for the
> pyrometer is seriously warped. It still fits in the kiln to be used, but =
will
> the warpage make a difference?
If you can pull supports and rod out, sounds like the thermal shock might
work best. Wear eye protection!
As long as the thermocouple is not broken or corroded to nearly breaking, i=
t
should be fine. Might want to see if you can rotate it so that it's warped
up.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Kathy Forer on mon 7 mar 11
On Mar 7, 2011, at 4:07 PM, John Post wrote:
> Think of this as a tune up for your old kiln. The sitter and the
> limit timer make sure your kiln shuts off. Since you over-fired your
> kiln, something went wrong with one or both of them (you may have a
> kiln without a limit timer). Replacing these items while you are
> inspecting your kiln ends up saving time and money in the long run.
John, It's a manual kiln. My own careless user-error over-fired it. I =3D
was measuring the temperature in Celsius as I had always done, but for =3D
some unexplained reason, thinking I was firing in Fahrenheit. When it =3D
couldn't get much past 1354, it finally crossed my mind there was a =3D
problem. The plug closing the peephole had fused shut at some point so I =
=3D
wasn't checking my witness cones; recording in my log book, just not =3D
paying attention.=3D20
I was driving in automatic on the wrong side of the road. Definite =3D
software glitch! And yes, Bill, I have learned my lesson, at least that =3D
one. More to come I am sure.
The cone is utterly melted, like glass, just a small bit on the supports =
=3D
and tip of rod. Gentle thermal shock sounds effective. I'll let you know =
=3D
what happens, thanks for your knowing advices!
The sitter rod seems pretty straight but the type K thermocouple for the =
=3D
pyrometer is seriously warped. It still fits in the kiln to be used, but =
=3D
will the warpage make a difference? =3D20
Thanks, Kathy
Kathy Forer
www.kforer.com=3D
Arnold Howard on tue 8 mar 11
On 3/7/2011 3:07 PM, John Post wrote:
> Once you have taken off the metal box covering the elements you should
> also check all of the wire connections in the kiln
Here is an article on basic kiln switch box maintenance. It applies to
Kiln Sitters and digital kilns:
http://www.paragonweb.com/Kiln_Pointer.cfm?PID=3D137
When vacuuming a digital kiln, do not bring the nozzle too close to the
thermocouple or controller. The static charge could damage the electronics.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
John Post on tue 8 mar 11
Vince,
I meant it to read kiln sitter tube assembly, you the white tubey
thing that sticks into the kiln.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
On Mar 7, 2011, at 10:16 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> John Post wrote:
> "Whenever I repair kilns for people who have over-fired them due to
> the kiln
> sitter sticking, I order a new kiln sitter and just replace it."
>
> John -
> Am I understanding you correctly? If so, this is overkill.
paul gerhold on wed 9 mar 11
Vince
Your problem is just that you are not young enough to be part of the money
is no object, replace the whole unit society. People who take things apar=
t
and spend time to do repairs are just plain obsolete.
Paul
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> John Post wrote:
> "Whenever I repair kilns for people who have over-fired them due to the
> kiln
> sitter sticking, I order a new kiln sitter and just replace it."
>
> John -
> Am I understanding you correctly? If so, this is overkill. An over-fire=
d
> kiln has no effect on the exterior components of the kiln sitter.
> Replacing
> the whole kiln sitter makes no sense. It is not difficult to disconnect
> the
> electrical, remove the front panel of the kiln sitter, unscrew the kiln
> sitter from the surface of the kiln, remove the whole assembly, unbolt th=
e
> sensor tube, replace it and the sensing rod, reassemble, install new cone
> support prongs, and use the supplied gauge to adjust the position of the
> sensing rod.
>
> We no longer have any kiln-sitter kilns, but through the many years that =
we
> had only kiln-sitter kilns, we had quite a few serious over-fires, and I
> never replaced a whole kiln-sitter. It would never occur to me to do tha=
t,
> because it would be a waste of money. It is a simple matter to replace t=
he
> defective components, whether the switch contacts, sensor tube, sensing
> rod,
> cone supports, etc.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>
Snail Scott on wed 9 mar 11
On Mar 6, 2011, at 4:14 PM, Kathy Forer wrote:
> ... The cone melted in the sitter, fusing the moveable rod and two =3D
replaceable arms...
> Would it be sufficient to use a propane torch to melt the parts free =3D
or do I need to dismantle the whole kiln sitter box?=3D20
Instead of melting it, i'd try to crack it apart with pliers.
If that doesn't work, I'd try the torch to heat (not melt)=3D20
it, then spray it with water to induce some thermal=3D20
shock to crack it. I bet you won't have to replace=3D20
anything, and the kiln will likely be fine.
-Snail=3D
Vince Pitelka on wed 9 mar 11
Paul Gerhold wrote:
"Your problem is just that you are not young enough to be part of the money
is no object, replace the whole unit society. People who take things apar=
t
and spend time to do repairs are just plain obsolete."
Hi Paul -
I know that you are just kidding. Of course those of us who take things
apart and fix things could be viewed as old-fashioned, but in truth we are
also ahead of our time, because as Lili points out, in the near future no
one will be able to afford to unnecessarily replace large component parts
rather than repairing them. It simply is an unrealistic approach in any
circumstance.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
paul gerhold on thu 10 mar 11
Vince,
The real reason to take things apart and fix them is that it stimulates you=
r
mind and expands your knowledge base. I started repairing things
practically as a baby working with my dad ( who by the way had no need to d=
o
it to save money). It was great bonding and great time together and probabl=
y
the reason I ended up studying engineering.
His favorite expression was that it is already broken so you can't make it
any worse and if you can't fix it you can always call the repair person
which was what you were going to have to do anyway.
Probably the thing that makes me most proud ( other than finally developin=
g
the glaze I want ) is to make some cool repair using a jury rig out of som=
e
inexpensive piece of useless stuff that had been lying around the house for
years.
Paul
On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Paul Gerhold wrote:
> "Your problem is just that you are not young enough to be part of the mon=
ey
> is no object, replace the whole unit society. People who take things
> apart
> and spend time to do repairs are just plain obsolete."
>
> Hi Paul -
> I know that you are just kidding. Of course those of us who take things
> apart and fix things could be viewed as old-fashioned, but in truth we ar=
e
> also ahead of our time, because as Lili points out, in the near future no
> one will be able to afford to unnecessarily replace large component parts
> rather than repairing them. It simply is an unrealistic approach in any
> circumstance.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>
Vince Pitelka on thu 10 mar 11
Paul Gerhold wrote:
"The real reason to take things apart and fix them is that it stimulates
your mind and expands your knowledge base."
Paul -
No, the real reason to take things apart and fix them is to fix them. It i=
s
wonderful that it stimulates our minds and expands our knowledge base but o=
f
course that is secondary to the need to fix things. I started taking thing=
s
apart and fixing them when I was a small child. No one knows where it came
from, because my dad never did that. From the time I first touched tools I
had an intuitive understanding of them and of almost all mechanical things,
and I have always felt so blessed to have such abilities. I have loved
machines and mechanisms ever since I was very small child, and I worry a lo=
t
that I see so few kids these days going in the same direction.
As you point out, one of the most fascinating and satisfying things is to
come up with improvised repairs that test our ability to fix things and sav=
e
us a lot of money in the process. I am so sorry that contemporary
automobiles have moved almost entirely out of that world of possibility. M=
y
first vehicle was a 1961 M38A1 ex-military Jeep Universal, and it was so
easy to fix everything on that machine - so accessible and adaptable.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
John Rodgers on thu 10 mar 11
When time has run out, civilization crashes and the chips are down -
only those who can do things with their hands, make things, will survive.
Yeah, yeah, cheery I'm not. My lingering head cold is working on me tonight=
!
John
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
On 3/10/2011 6:32 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Paul Gerhold wrote:
> "The real reason to take things apart and fix them is that it stimulates
> your mind and expands your knowledge base."
>
> Paul -
> No, the real reason to take things apart and fix them is to fix them. It=
is
> wonderful that it stimulates our minds and expands our knowledge base but=
of
> course that is secondary to the need to fix things. I started taking thi=
ngs
> apart and fixing them when I was a small child. No one knows where it ca=
me
> from, because my dad never did that. From the time I first touched tools=
I
> had an intuitive understanding of them and of almost all mechanical thing=
s,
> and I have always felt so blessed to have such abilities. I have loved
> machines and mechanisms ever since I was very small child, and I worry a =
lot
> that I see so few kids these days going in the same direction.
>
> As you point out, one of the most fascinating and satisfying things is to
> come up with improvised repairs that test our ability to fix things and s=
ave
> us a lot of money in the process. I am so sorry that contemporary
> automobiles have moved almost entirely out of that world of possibility. =
My
> first vehicle was a 1961 M38A1 ex-military Jeep Universal, and it was so
> easy to fix everything on that machine - so accessible and adaptable.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>
>
paul gerhold on fri 11 mar 11
Actually you can still do pretty much everything on a car, Just need a
code reader and good set of manuals, And you can do a lot of jury rigging
even on cars.
Paol
On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 10:26 PM, John Rodgers wrote:
> When time has run out, civilization crashes and the chips are down -
> only those who can do things with their hands, make things, will survive.
>
> Yeah, yeah, cheery I'm not. My lingering head cold is working on me
> tonight!
>
> John
>
> John Rodgers
> Clayartist and Moldmaker
> 88'GL VW Bus Driver
> Chelsea, AL
> Http://www.moldhaus.com
>
>
>
> On 3/10/2011 6:32 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
>
>> Paul Gerhold wrote:
>> "The real reason to take things apart and fix them is that it stimulates
>> your mind and expands your knowledge base."
>>
>> Paul -
>> No, the real reason to take things apart and fix them is to fix them. I=
t
>> is
>> wonderful that it stimulates our minds and expands our knowledge base bu=
t
>> of
>> course that is secondary to the need to fix things. I started taking
>> things
>> apart and fixing them when I was a small child. No one knows where it
>> came
>> from, because my dad never did that. From the time I first touched tool=
s
>> I
>> had an intuitive understanding of them and of almost all mechanical
>> things,
>> and I have always felt so blessed to have such abilities. I have loved
>> machines and mechanisms ever since I was very small child, and I worry a
>> lot
>> that I see so few kids these days going in the same direction.
>>
>> As you point out, one of the most fascinating and satisfying things is t=
o
>> come up with improvised repairs that test our ability to fix things and
>> save
>> us a lot of money in the process. I am so sorry that contemporary
>> automobiles have moved almost entirely out of that world of possibility.
>> My
>> first vehicle was a 1961 M38A1 ex-military Jeep Universal, and it was so
>> easy to fix everything on that machine - so accessible and adaptable.
>> - Vince
>>
>> Vince Pitelka
>> Appalachian Center for Craft
>> Tennessee Tech University
>> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
>> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>>
>>
>>
marci@PPIO.COM on sat 12 mar 11
paul gerhold said:
>
> His favorite expression was that it is already broken so you can't
> make it
> any worse and if you can't fix it you can always call the repair
> person
> which was what you were going to have to do anyway.
Actually , you CAN make it worse LOL !.. And there are times when what
would have been a quick and cheap fix for a repair person turns into a
nightmare because some hack decided to tackle it on his own .. ( and
this is not taking into consideration messing with things like
capacitors that can lay some serious hurt on ya )
While I agree that taking stuff apart is the best way to learn how it
works (I dont think my husband has one thing ... amps,
guitars,lawnmowers etc that have all their screws because he takes them
apart as soon as he gets em and then promptly loses a screw or two ),
you do have to do it with your wits about you ... and I love Mel's oft
repeated admonition about having a digital camera with you and using it
every step of the way .. ( Lesse: Was that red wire hooked onto the
whizamahoojee or the hoozit ? )
Marci the chinapainter ( who HAS made it worse a time or two LOL )
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