DJ Brewer on wed 23 mar 11
Dear Lili
I am making these for myself for experimentation purposes only. Not for
sale. I just wanted to make some ramen in a clay pot just cuz. No
other reason. You can take off your helmet, hokey mask and bullet proof
vest. You can sit down with a glass of wine and relax. You can stave
off that coronary for another day!
much love
DJ
On 3/23/2011 7:06 PM, Lili Krakowski wrote:
> Again. Once more. I strap on my helmet, hockey mask , and bullet proof =
vest, as again. one more I warn against "flameware". Call me chicken, alar=
mist, etc. I do not care.
>
> In the 1970s pyrophilite clay bodies were "created" by several fine potte=
rs, and became famous and popular with the claim that they could go on top =
of the stove, sit atop a burner and like that.
>
> Then there was a spate of horror stories about what terrible things had h=
appened to some of those who used pots made from these clays.
> Claims, disclaimers and so on...BUT a no point did any reliable, trustwor=
thy authority figure give any kind of go-ahead.
>
> And, as far as Internet tells me, no one now sells a clay body represent=
ed as flameproof, for use on top of stove etc. Furthermore I do not know i=
f insurers would insure someone representing his/her pottery as safe to us=
e atop a burner.
>
> I have used these clays and they are nice because they produce very prett=
y bodies firing to a nice orangy color. I am thinking of mixing some for u=
se in planters--just for the color. As I recall they are not great to throw=
with.
>
> I would not however, would definitely NOT, ever use them on top of a s=
tove burner, and certainly not sell such pots with that representation.
>
> And an addendum. January 2011 Consumer Reports has long story above oven=
/baking glassware that explodes.
>
> As to bats. Throwing off the wheelhead or hump is perfectly good. But f=
or those of us who do slip decoration atop the thrown pot, a bat underneath=
gives good support and minimizes distortion.
>
>
>
>
> Lili Krakowski
> Be of good courage
>
Vince Pitelka on wed 23 mar 11
Lili mentioned some of the past problems with exploding flameware used on
stovetop burners. This happened most often when someone placed a handmade
flameware pot on an electric stove burner that was already hot. I would
hope that anyone would have the common sense to not do that, but apparently
that is a false hope.
I do not understand why anyone would want to risk making flameware - pots t=
o
use directly on the stove top. Why take the risk? Now, I can't see how
there would be any risk in porous, low-fired flameware. It might break, bu=
t
it wouldn't explode. But high-fired flameware that has absorbed a tiny
fraction of moisture from soaking in the sink or even just from atmospheric
humidity can explode catastrophically. Why mess around with that when ther=
e
are so many other wonderful things to make with clay?
In industry, they have the control and precision to make high-fired
flameware that is reliable and safe. In studio ceramics, we don't.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
James Freeman on wed 23 mar 11
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:06 PM, Lili Krakowski wr=
ote:
And, as far as Internet tells me, no one now sells a clay body represented
as flameproof, for use on top of stove etc. Furthermore I do not know if
insurers would insure someone representing his/her pottery as safe to use
atop a burner.
Hi, Lili, et alii...
Not arguing with you at all. I personally see no reason to take such a
chance either, but then again I am not a chef, so perhaps there are reasons
I do not understand. In any case, I know there is at least one potter who
is selling a successful flameware line, Tom Wirt. You can read about it
here: http://www.claycoyote.com/blog/2008/08/flameware.html , and see it
here:
http://claycoyote.com/index.cfm/FLAMEWARE/n/fuseaction/category.display/cat=
egory_ID/44/.
Some years ago there was an argument on clayart about ovenware breaking due
to a supposed temperature differential between the inside and outside of a
pot if it were put cold, full of food, into a hot oven. This made no sense
to me from a physics standpoint, so I ran a little experiment. In order to
demonstrate that meaningful differential heating was not really possible
under ordinary circumstances, I boiled water in a heavily crazed cone 10
ceramic vessel using an extremely hot open flame. I brought the water from
55 degrees F to a full, violent boil in under a minute by applying the 5000
degree flame of my oxy-acetylene blow torch directly to the outside of the
ceramic vessel as I slowly rotated it on a banding wheel. DISCLAIMER: DO
NOT TRY THIS AT HOME! NO ONE IS ADVISING YOU TO DO THIS! In any case, the
vessel did not fail, so under at least some circumstances, it is clearly
possible (the posts with the experimental results as to temperature
differential, actually lack thereof, will be in the archives). I say this
not to refute anything you said, but only to give one reason for my belief
that Mr. Wirt has done what he says.
As to the grand debate over batts, batt pins, and splash pans (and this is
directed to the list, not to any one person), it all seems like profound
silliness to me. As to batts, there are undeniably things that you can
accomplish with them that you cannot accomplish without them. If, however,
you personally do not do any of those things, then you can obviously get by
without them. A fine steel scalpel is an undeniably great tool, but if you
can do everything you personally need to do in life with a sharpened stick,
then of course a scalpel seems superfluous.
As to batt pins, sure, you can do the job without them, but they make life
easier. May as well be arguing against central heating and your kitchen
stove, both of which are precisely as "unnecessary" as batt pins.
As to splash pans, if you don't mind glop on your clothes, or the chance of
glop on your clothes, walls, and equipment, then don't use one. Since,
however, there is no drawback to using one, I personally see no reason to
even take a chance. With a splash pan, I can win or break even. Without a
splash pan, I can break even or lose. Seems like an easy decision. I've
never "needed" the seat belts in my car, but I wear them anyway.
Just a few thoughts.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
Lili Krakowski on wed 23 mar 11
Again. Once more. I strap on my helmet, hockey mask , and bullet proof =
=3D
vest, as again. one more I warn against "flameware". Call me chicken, =3D
alarmist, etc. I do not care.
In the 1970s pyrophilite clay bodies were "created" by several fine =3D
potters, and became famous and popular with the claim that they could go =
=3D
on top of the stove, sit atop a burner and like that. =3D20
Then there was a spate of horror stories about what terrible things had =3D
happened to some of those who used pots made from these clays.
Claims, disclaimers and so on...BUT a no point did any reliable, =3D
trustworthy authority figure give any kind of go-ahead.
And, as far as Internet tells me, no one now sells a clay body =3D
represented as flameproof, for use on top of stove etc. Furthermore I =3D
do not know if insurers would insure someone representing his/her =3D
pottery as safe to use atop a burner.
I have used these clays and they are nice because they produce very =3D
pretty bodies firing to a nice orangy color. I am thinking of mixing =3D
some for use in planters--just for the color. As I recall they are not =3D
great to throw with.
I would not however, would definitely NOT, ever use them on top of a =3D
stove burner, and certainly not sell such pots with that representation.
And an addendum. January 2011 Consumer Reports has long story above =3D
oven/baking glassware that explodes.
As to bats. Throwing off the wheelhead or hump is perfectly good. But =3D
for those of us who do slip decoration atop the thrown pot, a bat =3D
underneath gives good support and minimizes distortion.
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
Lee on thu 24 mar 11
On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:42 PM, James Freeman
wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 8:06 PM, Lili Krakowski =
=3D
wrote:
>
> And, as far as Internet tells me, =3DA0no one now sells a clay body repre=
se=3D
nted
> as flameproof, for use on top of stove etc.
> Hi, Lili, et alii...
>
> Not arguing with you at all.
I could by flameware clay in Mashiko. It is for Donabe pots.
See various kinds here:
http://bit.ly/h6eQIO
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
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