J.A. Monk on thu 26 may 11
I would like to know it the flame ware clay body below is viable.
Cone 9-10 Flame ware
Spodumene 30
Pyrophyllite 10
Custer Spar 10
OM#4 20
Fire Clay 30
Bentonite 2
Macaloid 1
103
Steve Slatin on thu 26 may 11
At the risk of adding to the upset on this subject,
let me suggest an answer to your question -- no one
can possibly tell if the formula is 'viable' or not.
George C has pointed out at some length that testing
is a key element to flameware. He is correct for
a variety of reasons, but consider this -- isn't there
a range of temperatures within the "Cone 9-10"
standard? How about firing processes? It is=3D20
entirely conceivable that the recipe might work for
one combination and not for another.
Now, consider the ingredients in your recipe.
Your number 1 ingredient is spodumene. Which
kind? Even bag-to-bag it'll vary somewhat, but
the variation between Brazilian, Canadian, Australian,
and Californian deposits are potentially quite
significant.
You also have a significant amount of pyrophyllite
-- a useful material, but one which has significant
differences in the thickness of the silica 'sheets'
it created when heated, even if the overall analysis
remains the same. And 'fire clay?' Thing of how
different one may be from another.
I would suggest that if you want to go the flameware
route, you resign yourself to doing many, many hours
of testing before you consider selling the first=3D20
piece -- and that you continue to do testing as
you produce, just in case a supplier sends you a
material that differs from you got previously. Or
your kiln fires differently. Or you make a small
error in mixing your clay.
Just my two banii --
Steve Slatin=3D20
N48.0886450
W123.1420482
--- On Thu, 5/26/11, J.A. Monk wrote:
> I would like to know it the flame
> ware clay body below is viable.
>=3D20
> Cone 9-10=3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0
> =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0Flame ware
>=3D20
> Spodumene=3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0
> =3DA0=3DA0=3DA030
> Pyrophyllite=3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 10
> Custer Spar=3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0
> =3DA0=3DA0=3DA010
> OM#4=3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0
> =3DA0 =3DA0 20
> Fire Clay=3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0
> =3DA0=3DA0=3DA030
> Bentonite=3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0
> =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 2
> Macaloid=3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0
> =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0=3DA0=3DA01
> =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0
> =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0=3DA0=3DA0103
>
J.A. Monk on fri 27 may 11
George again the gist of my question did not come across the way I asked it=
.
The only thing that I wanted to know is if the compounds in this particular
clay body could found today and the clay body still work, since most
compounds change for decade to decade; the only thing that I wanted to know
is if the clay body could still be use today, since the compounds may have
changed. I do not care if this is a so-called modification of the one in th=
e
May issue of Ceramic Monthly, which I have not seen because I do not
subscribe to CM and have not since 1987.
James
-----Original Message-----
From: George Chechopoulos [mailto:marrowstonepots@waypoint.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 9:59 PM
To: 'J.A. Monk'
Subject: RE: Flame ware Clay body
J.A.,
I'm glad that you didn't post this message on the Clayart site because I
would have had to embarrass you in front of the entire group. As I said,
the recipe that you posted is a modification of the one published in the Ma=
y
issue of CM and I really don't care how or when you came by it. That recip=
e
was given to Robbie Lobell by Karen Karnes who got it back in the '70s or
possibly before. Either you haven't taken a good look at Robbie Lobell's
recipe in CM or you don't have the experience to recognize the similarities=
.
That recipe has been around for centuries now. Below is my post of March
26th which explains some of the history behind that so called "Flameproof"
clay body. Again, no test results to support the statement of "Flameproof.=
"
Get a copy of my article in the May issue of Ceramics Technical if you want
to learn more about Flameware.
Sorry I have to be so blunt with you. Yes, the ingredients can be found to
formulate this clay body today but it is obvious to me from your comments
that you really don't have the experience necessary to jump into Flameware
clay body formulation and mixing. Please take my advice and start with
stoneware or earthenware clay bodies after you have a thorough understandin=
g
of the ingredients that compose such a clay body. A good book to start wit=
h
is "Out of the Earth and Into the Fire" which you can find on Amazon.com an=
d
other sites selling books.
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 11:35:54 -0700
From: George Chechopoulos
Subject: Re: All of those Flameware Comments
Subject: Re: All of those Flameware comments:
To Richard Aerni: Yes, Robbie Lobell did get her so called Flameware
recipes from Karen Karnes. However, Karen Karnes was not the originator of
those recipes. See the link and the excerpt of an interview with Karen
Karnes by a Mr. Shapiro, 2005.
www.aaa.si.edu/collections/interviews/oral-history-interview-karen-karnes-1=
2
096
Interview with Karen Karnes
Conducted by Mark Shapiro
At the Artist's home and studio in Morgan, Vermont
August 9 and 10, 2005
Excerpt:
"MR. SHAPIRO: Was this before the flameproof?
MS. KARNES: Flameproof came pretty quickly afterwards.
MR. SHAPIRO: So you mentioned that you were helped by a chemist with that. =
I
don't know that story.
MS. KARNES: No, not me. That was MC. I don't know a chemist.
MR. SHAPIRO: But she had somehow gotten this formula?
MS. KARNES: Yeah. Yeah."
George J. Chechopoulos
Marrowstone Pottery
292 Merry Road, Box 193
Nordland, WA 98358
Website: www.marrowstonepottery.com
Youtube: www.youtube.com/marrowstonepots
Email: marrowstonepots@waypoint.com
Phone: 360-379-5169
-----Original Message-----
From: J.A. Monk [mailto:monkja.1@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 7:15 PM
To: 'George Chechopoulos'
Subject: RE: Flame ware Clay body
George,
This is not a modification of a formula published in the May issue of CM. A=
s
matter of fact this formula has not be published anywhere. I have had this
formula since 1990 and it was give to me by a close friend. Regina, did not
formulate this clay body be use on an open flame. This formula was fired in
a reduction kiln and its use was intended to be as oven-ware. The question
that I should have asked is this "Can I still found the compounds that are
used in this clay body today?"
Thanks
James
George Chechopoulos on sat 28 may 11
Hi J.A.,
That's interesting. Was it left out in the rain before use? When you say
"explode" what exactly do you mean? Did it shatter when you started a fire
in it?
We have one also from Mexico that we have used for years. It is finally
starting to crack in several places so I think that this will be its last
summer of use in rainy Washington State. I have also been thinking of
making one out of Flameware. Give me a few days and I'll post my "First
Generation" Flameware clay body recipe on this site. I'm not using it any
longer for my Flameware pots but it would work fine for a Chiminea or an
outdoor oven and my recipe is better than the one that you presently have.
If you build it right with this clay body it will last you forever.
George J. Chechopoulos
Marrowstone Pottery
292 Merry Road, Box 193
Nordland, WA 98358
Website: www.marrowstonepottery.com
Youtube: www.youtube.com/marrowstonepots
Email: marrowstonepots@waypoint.com
Phone: 360-379-5169
-----Original Message-----
From: J.A. Monk [mailto:monkja.1@comcast.net]
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 12:14 AM
To: 'George Chechopoulos'
Subject: RE: Flame ware Clay body
George,
Thank you for the information. Please know that I do not plan to use this
claybody for cooking. I plan to use this claybody to make a few Chimineas,
small ones for family and friends. In the past, I have purchased ones that
were made from terra cotta and they have exploded, even after they have bee=
n
seasoned.
I enjoyed watching your videos they were very informative.
Again, thank you for the information.
James
J.A. Monk on sat 28 may 11
George,
After I had started a small fire in it, it started to smoke, or so I
thought. It was steaming and then shortly there was a loud pop and the
chiminea was in pieces. The chiminea had been under a covered patio, it was
not exposed to rain, and when I used it, it did not feel wet. I may have no=
t
seasoned the chiminea properly, here is what I did when I first get it, and
I laid a small bed of sand on the bottom and then started a little fire
using only little thigs. I took several days to do this and it was find and
I use it for three years, then it exploded.
I would be interested in having your flame ware clay, so that I may make a
few for my family and friends. I had thought about doing coils, but I am no=
w
of the opinion that it should be thrown in sections. I would appreciate you=
r
input on this and your help.
James
-----Original Message-----
From: George Chechopoulos [mailto:marrowstonepots@waypoint.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 12:47 PM
To: 'J.A. Monk'
Cc: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: RE: Flame ware Clay body
Hi J.A.,
That's interesting. Was it left out in the rain before use? When you say
"explode" what exactly do you mean? Did it shatter when you started a fire
in it?
We have one also from Mexico that we have used for years. It is finally
starting to crack in several places so I think that this will be its last
summer of use in rainy Washington State. I have also been thinking of
making one out of Flameware. Give me a few days and I'll post my "First
Generation" Flameware clay body recipe on this site. I'm not using it any
longer for my Flameware pots but it would work fine for a Chiminea or an
outdoor oven and my recipe is better than the one that you presently have.
If you build it right with this clay body it will last you forever.
George J. Chechopoulos
Marrowstone Pottery
292 Merry Road, Box 193
Nordland, WA 98358
Website: www.marrowstonepottery.com
Youtube: www.youtube.com/marrowstonepots
Email: marrowstonepots@waypoint.com
Phone: 360-379-5169
-----Original Message-----
From: J.A. Monk [mailto:monkja.1@comcast.net]
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 12:14 AM
To: 'George Chechopoulos'
Subject: RE: Flame ware Clay body
George,
Thank you for the information. Please know that I do not plan to use this
claybody for cooking. I plan to use this claybody to make a few Chimineas,
small ones for family and friends. In the past, I have purchased ones that
were made from terra cotta and they have exploded, even after they have bee=
n
seasoned.
I enjoyed watching your videos they were very informative.
Again, thank you for the information.
James
| |
|
