Lee on sat 4 jun 11
rs
On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 7:21 PM, William & Susan Schran User
wrote:
> Olympic tries to keep the expense down on their updraft gas kilns, but I
> think if they would just replace the current pipe burners with true ventu=
=3D
ri
> burners, folks would not have this issue with back burning.
They have changed them. I recall Rob Haugen
helping out last time the Torch Bearer was
brought up.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
William & Susan Schran User on sat 4 jun 11
rs
On 6/4/11 2:24 PM, "June" wrote:
> This is the first day all week with no rain in the forecast that I could =
fire
> this small Olympic gas kiln. I don't know why I'm getting back burning si=
nce
> the beginning of the firing. I cleaned the burners and orifices very well
> before the firing. The shutters are open 3/8". They suggest 3/8 - 1/2" sh=
utter
> openings. I have no idea what more I could do to correct this problem.
> I've seen on line where another person with this kiln had the same proble=
m
> with these Olympic burners and replaced them with other venturi burners; =
but I
> can't believe that there isn't another solution for this.
> The kiln is now up to 1660+ degrees and I just hope this back burning won=
't
> stop me from getting to temperature. It's supposed to fire on 5 gallons a=
nd my
> 7 gallon tank is already less than 1/2 full. Fortunately, I have another =
5
> gallon ready to attach if the 7 gallon empties. Thanks for any suggestio=
ns.
June,
I'm probably the one you saw online that replaced the original pipe burners
with true venturi burners. Olympic claims their pipe burners are venturi
burners, but I can't see it. The thing, I believe, these burners need is
more gas pressure, but the baso valve supplied by Olympic is limited to
fairly low pressure. I switched out the originals with MR750's supplied fro=
m
Marc Ward, along with new thermocouple and the kiln screamed! Got to cone 6
in 5-6 hours using less pressure than with the original burners!
Olympic tries to keep the expense down on their updraft gas kilns, but I
think if they would just replace the current pipe burners with true venturi
burners, folks would not have this issue with back burning. At least that i=
s
how I solved the back-burning problem. Calling them for assistance didn't
solve the problem.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Steve Mills on sun 5 jun 11
rs
Dear June ,
I assume by shutters you mean the rotating air controls on the burners.=3D2=
0
I fired a 7 cube version for a while, and found that wide open was the most=
e=3D
ffective option, controlling atmosphere at the flue opening with two pieces=
o=3D
f kiln shelf to make a variable slot.=3D20
If I shut the air down in any way I was fighting my way up through a contin=
u=3D
ous reduction which in no way helped gas economy.=3D20
My two-penny-worth.=3D20
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my Ipod touch
On 4 Jun 2011, at 19:24, June wrote:
> This is the first day all week with no rain in the forecast that I could =
f=3D
ire this small Olympic gas kiln. I don't know why I'm getting back burning =
s=3D
ince the beginning of the firing. I cleaned the burners and orifices very w=
e=3D
ll before the firing. The shutters are open 3/8". They suggest 3/8 - 1/2" s=
h=3D
utter openings. I have no idea what more I could do to correct this problem=
.=3D
>=3D20
> I've seen on line where another person with this kiln had the same proble=
m=3D
with these Olympic burners and replaced them with other venturi burners; b=
u=3D
t I can't believe that there isn't another solution for this.
>=3D20
> The kiln is now up to 1660+ degrees and I just hope this back burning won=
'=3D
t stop me from getting to temperature. It's supposed to fire on 5 gallons a=
n=3D
d my 7 gallon tank is already less than 1/2 full. Fortunately, I have anoth=
e=3D
r 5 gallon ready to attach if the 7 gallon empties. Thanks for any suggest=
i=3D
ons.
>=3D20
> Warm regards,
> June
>=3D20
> http://wwww.shambhalapottery.blogspot.com
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sodasaltfiring/
> http://www.shambhalapottery.com
Lee on sun 5 jun 11
rs
On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 9:59 PM, William & Susan Schran User
wrote:
> Scroll down to the 23" burner system and you will see they are using the
> back end of the GACO 100, then sticking a pipe in it - this is NOT a vent=
=3D
uri
> burner.
Rob said the MR750s are available if requested:
"If someone wants the
MR750's on one of our kilns, we can do it, but I do not feel that it is a
necessity. If someone wants to buy just the burner system and do the
conversion, we will do that as well."
Folks at Olympic are extremely flexible and listen to their
customers. Like I said, I got a free set of burners on an '80s set,
with the upgrade of the ring and baso.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
William & Susan Schran User on sun 5 jun 11
rs
On 6/5/11 8:23 PM, "Lee" wrote:
> Bill,
> It is related to the topic at hand. GACO 100s are exactly the
> same as GACO 750s, except bigger. They are venturi burners.
Yes, you are correct, the 750 and 100 are the same shape with the 100 being
bigger, but...
Please go back and re-read what I wrote.
Olympic is NOT using the GACO 100 burners!
They are using the back end of the GACO 100, the orifice holder and primary
air plate only - they are not using the entire burner as it is pictured on
Ward's web site:
http://www.wardburner.com/burnersparts/venturiburners.html
If you look at Olympic's web site, gas kiln page:
http://www.greatkilns.com/gas_raku_torchbearer_kilns.cfm
Scroll down to the 23" burner system and you will see they are using the
back end of the GACO 100, then sticking a pipe in it - this is NOT a ventur=
i
burner.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Vince Pitelka on sun 5 jun 11
rs
Lee Love wrote:
"They have changed them. I recall Rob Haugen
helping out last time the Torch Bearer was brought up.
Lee -
At one time Olympic used the GACO MR-750 in their Torchbearer kilns, and
that's a true venturi burner. As far as I can see from the images on the
Olympic website, they now use a GACO Mixer with a pipe tub, and technically
it is a tube burner and not a venturi. Having a flared opening at the inlet
end of the burner does not make it a venturi. The burner tube must have a
streamlined restriction just beyond the orifice, and then must slowly flare
out or open up again in order to be a venturi burner. Also there does not
seem to be a true flame-retention tip on the end, and that seems to be the
source of the problems with back-burning. I hope that Rob will chime in an=
d
explain, because so many people with Torchbearer kilns seem to be having
this problem. Some people have actually converted their Torchbearers back
to MR-750s.
The GACO MR-750 is so reasonably-priced, and if Olympic were purchasing the=
m
in bulk from GACO I expect they would even more inexpensive, so I do not
understand why they are using the current burners rather than the MR-750.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Lee on sun 5 jun 11
rs
On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Lee wrote:
> They use GACO 1000s.
Sorry, this is a typo. I meant GACO 100s.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee on sun 5 jun 11
rs
On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Lee Love wrote:
> "They have changed them. =3DA0I recall Rob Haugen co=3D
m>
> helping out last time the Torch Bearer was brought up.
>
> Lee -
> At one time Olympic used the GACO MR-750 in their Torchbearer kilns, and
> that's a true venturi burner. =3DA0As far as I can see from the images on=
t=3D
he
> Olympic website, they now use a GACO Mixer with a pipe tub, and technical=
=3D
ly
> it is a tube burner and not a venturi.
They use GACO 1000s.
Do you remember this apology below Vince?
Subject: Olympic Torchbearer Kilns Do Use Quality Burners
From: Vince Pitelka
Reply-To: Vince Pitelka
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 14:10:05 -0600
Content-Type: text/plain
Parts/Attachments:=3D09
=3D09
text/plain (69 lines)
I just sent a message apologizing to Rob Haugen and Olympic Kilns for
spreading false information about the burners on their Torchbearer kilns. =
=3D
I
went on second-hand information, and I should have checked more thoroughly.
It is evident that the burners on the Torchbearers are very different from
those on the Summit conversion kits. Please see Rob's message below. I
wanted to send the same message under this subject heading just to make sur=
=3D
e
people get the message.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Rob Haugen
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 8:23 AM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: FW: burners for electric kiln conversion
Vince,
You may want to take a look at one of our current burner systems a little
more carefully. I can assure you that our burners are not a conglomeration
of "off the shelf" parts. We use a GACO AM100 air mixer that most
definitely do have a shutter plate for primary air adjustment. In fact the
shutter plate, brass spud and orifice are the same for the AM100 and the
MR750. We have done extensive testing with our current burner and the MR75=
=3D
0
and find very little difference in performance between the two burners. We
have been building gas kilns for over 40 years and have probably built more
gas kilns than anyone out there. We are very aware of the gas kiln firing
process and we strive to build a simple kiln, that can be easily set up and
fired by anybody with the desire to fire a gas kiln. If someone wants the
MR750's on one of our kilns, we can do it, but I do not feel that it is a
necessity. If someone wants to buy just the burner system and do the
conversion, we will do that as well.
Rob Haugen
Olympic Kilns
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee on sun 5 jun 11
rs
Bill,
It is related to the topic at hand. GACO 100s are exactly the
same as GACO 750s, except bigger. They are venturi burners.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee on sun 5 jun 11
rs
Okay. I see that it is a AM 100 and not MR 100. Rob says they are
willing to switch for MR 750s.
They gave me a new set of burners when I requested the fire
ring and only charged me for the difference between the burners and
burners with fire ring with baso. Don't have the gas hooked up
yet, but will give a report when I do.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
William & Susan Schran User on sun 5 jun 11
rs
On 6/5/11 6:54 PM, "Lee" wrote:
>They use GACO 1000s.
>Do you remember this apology below Vince?
> We use a GACO AM100 air mixer that most
> definitely do have a shutter plate for primary air adjustment.
Lee,
The apology Vince sent to Rob & Olympic had to do with comparing the burner=
s
on Olympic kilns to those used on Summit conversion kits, that do not have
adjustable primary air plates..
The GACO air mixer that Rob writes in his message is only the back end of
the burner assembly. This is the area that holds the orifice and the
adjustable primary air plate/disc. The throat/length of the remainder of th=
e
burner is a simple straight pipe with no flame retention device. Rob never
claims this is a venturi burner design.
From my own first hand experience with an Olympic updraft kiln, hooked up t=
o
a proper sized gas line, with the pressure regulated according to the
manufacturer's instructions, I was unable to fire the kiln without
encountering back burning. After switching out the burners for MR750's, not
changing anything else, besides the thermocouple and tiny burner to keep it
hot, using same gas pressure (though later finding I needed less pressure),
I got much better results, more rapid heating and never had anymore issues
with back burning.
I have described how I was able to get very even firings from this Olympic
kiln on my web site.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Vince Pitelka on mon 6 jun 11
rs
Lee Love wrote:
"Okay. I see that it is a AM 100 and not MR 100. Rob says they are
willing to switch for MR 750s."
Hi Lee -
I explained that the current burners use a GACO mixer with a straight tube,
with no flame retention accommodations. Maybe next time you could do the
research and make sure you know what you are talking about BEFORE you send
such a snarky messages to Clayart. But then, why should we expect you to
change?
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Lee on mon 6 jun 11
rs
On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 12:33 AM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Lee Love wrote:
> "Okay. =3DA0 I see that it is a AM 100 and not MR 100. =3DA0 =3DA0Rob say=
s they=3D
are
> willing to switch for MR 750s."
>
> Hi Lee -
> I explained that the current burners use a
Vince,
I shared the old email showing that we didn't have to look
at a photo on the web to guess what the burners were because Rob
explicitly told us.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
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