mel jacobson on thu 9 jun 11
remember, art education and of course clay
education is being knocked around pretty
badly.
in fact it is on its way out in public schools.
i try and wave the flag, warn people.
but,there are a great many folks out there with their
eyes closed...ear flaps down.
i have been reading about churchill in 1935 warning
the british people that herr hitler was going to
ruin the world. he said the jews were going to
be destroyed.
he was laughed at, scorned...vilified.
but, too bad....he was right.
i feel like that many days.
remember, those that destroy programs do
it with such `great and good intentions`.
they sound so sincere, so noble.
their intentions are of the best cause.
those are the people that often go into
school leadership, run for school boards, then
transfer to state education departments..
they know.
they know.
they get ph.d's in knowing things.
those of us that do art, have been involved our
entire life in making art are looked at as:
wait for it:
`single media teachers`
and, in their minds...`only those that understand
academic art can really teach children the `right way`.
it is a ten headed snake.
mel
they teach shop class in hopkins as an academic
class called `systems of industrial mechanics`.
it is taught from a book, tests are given..written tests.
there are no machines to be touched. ever.
it is taught in an english class room.
but, those that decided, had great intentions to protect
children from cuts.
from: minnetonka, mn
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
new book: http://www.21stcenturykilns.com
alternate: melpots7575@gmail.com
KATHI LESUEUR on thu 9 jun 11
On Jun 9, 2011, at 6:50 AM, mel jacobson wrote:
> remember, art education and of course clay
> education is being knocked around pretty
> badly.
>=3D20
> in fact it is on its way out in public schools.
>=3D20
> i try and wave the flag, warn people.
>=3D20
> but,there are a great many folks out there with their
> eyes closed...ear flaps down.
>=3D20
> i have been reading about churchill in 1935 warning
> the british people that herr hitler was going to
> ruin the world. he said the jews were going to
> be destroyed.
>=3D20
> he was laughed at, scorned...vilified.
>=3D20
> but, too bad....he was right.
>=3D20
> i feel like that many days.>>>
Mel,
For a long time now I've told people to study the rise of Nazi Germany =3D
and they would understand the future of our country. They look at me =3D
like I'm nuts. And yet, the signs are all here. And, like in 1939, a few =
=3D
see it and are beginning to plan for the future. The rest just go on =3D
willfully ignorant.=3D20
Controlling information is key and what better way of controlling =3D
information than to destroy the education system. I predict that in less =
=3D
than twenty years there will be no public schools as we know them. =3D
Everything will be taught on line. Just read what you are supposed to =3D
know and play it back on a test. No discussion, no challenging the =3D
information or presenting an opposing point of view. Those with money =3D
will send their kids to private schools where actually learning takes =3D
place. Their kids will take their "rightful" place in positions of =3D
power. The rest will be left to a boring, uninspiring, and unchallenging =
=3D
"education".=3D20
In Michigan the legislature is poised to vote on tenure under the guise =3D
of getting rid of bad teachers. When I was teaching at a privately run =3D
boy's school I was not protected by the tenure laws. I never worried for =
=3D
my job after all, I was good (my opinion). But, our principal could fire =
=3D
at will. The teachers most threatened were some of the best. They =3D
inspired kids to learn. They were independent, strong willed, and =3D
believed in what they were doing. Several of the best quit rather than =3D
be fired.=3D20
Administrators always say they can't get rid of incompetent teachers. =3D
Not true. They just don't want to be required to do the work to prove =3D
their case. "Fire at Will" is the cause of the day. No need to prove I'm =
=3D
no good, just fire me because it's your opinion. If you like me, I'm =3D
secure. If you don't, I'm gone.
If these people really think they have incompetent teachers now, wait =3D
till they get the next crop. Who would want to be a teacher in this =3D
environment. Anyone really good wouldn't be willing to go along with all =
=3D
of this crap. If they really care about kids they would eventually =3D
refuse to go along.=3D20
Mel, under the "fire at will" system you would be one of the first =3D
fired. You are far too outspoken. You challenge far too much. No one =3D
will want that from a teacher. It might infect the students and the next =
=3D
thing you know they would be challenging and questioning.
Meanwhile, the rest of the world is pouring massive amounts of money =3D
into education. Advanced degrees are expected of everyone and affordable =
=3D
or free. The world will pass us by and we will deserve it.
KATHI LESUEUR
http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
>=3D20
Liz Gowen 1 on thu 9 jun 11
I moved into an area where it seems to be more the norm for the boys to
drop out of high school at an alarming rate. These are neighbors that seem
to be good with their hands. I have had them put up shelves move but not
rewire an electric box etc and they were so pleased to be able to do this.
They couldn't survive the academics that everyone has to have. They all
eventually turned to drugs. One is dead at 20, 2 are in prison after many
events to get money for drugs and another, whose grandparents raised him
and are very hard working people with a great work ethic, is wanted for a
number of robberies the last including guns. The girls seem to take the
usual way out they get pregnant at 15 and quit then leave the kid to be
raised by the grandparents. SO they fail all the testing, quit school ,and
go this route, all in one small town. How does this help society???
My sister and brothers kids loved to do pottery and other craft
projects with their aunt growing up till sports took over their lives,
pushed by the parents, there is no time to get together with family. I thin=
k
it has been one of the worst things for extended family ever concieved and
better yet we get to pay for it through our taxes. My one niece would come
down and want to do project after project tell me what to make, about 47 mi=
n
later now what. You really could see the school tiime frame influence as
well as the do this project like this ...times up. Wow it is exhausting. I
know I know I did walk to and from school 2 X's a day 1 mile each way. (hom=
e
for lunch and back). Didn't take a school bus was in big city Phila. We go=
t
our exercise without the cost and pollution of buses. My neice gets driven =
4
blocks every day so has to do sports after school. Reverse some of this and
the kids would have time to include the arts and enjoy thinkin and creating=
.
I had always been a left and right brainer but after I was hit by a
school bus 15 yrs ago, 3 back surgeries, the last causing word loss memory
loss and the inability to read long things like books and probably this
message. I was able to strengthen the right brain use 1st with the book
drawing with the right side of the brain. I now need to close my eyes and
visualize what people are talking about. DO we just thow people like me
away?? WHat if kids are born this way? Wake up America. There is a place fo=
r
those that work with their hands as well as those that work with their left
brain. Stop exporting all these jobs and filling the street with delinquent=
s
so the CEO's of big companies can buy their 6th or 7th house and vacation
overseas....Liz Gowen Delaware.
mel wrote
they teach shop class in hopkins as an academic class called `systems of
industrial mechanics`.
it is taught from a book, tests are given..written tests.
there are no machines to be touched. ever.
it is taught in an english class room.
but, those that decided, had great intentions to protect children from cuts=
.
sharonia628 on fri 10 jun 11
How about this for dismantling education:
I just heard a segment on NPR about the newest fad - called "unschooling"
(as opposed to home schooling). Appears some folks have decided that their
children know best when, where, how and what to learn. At home or wherever.
This kid - 16 or 17 - said he didn't learn to read until he was 10 and
wanted to play a game. His mother, a nurse (I believe), said it was
important to let kids decide so as not to ruin their creativity and
spontaneity. Right now the kid is "working" on his spelling. No news about
his learning math, science, art, music etc. Kid said he would be forever
grateful to his parents for not interfering and pushing him when he wasn't
ready.
Kathi is right. Talk about the next generation. We'll probably elect him
president or something. We'll deserve it.
Sharon
--
Sharon La Rocca Miranda
www.sharonmiranda.com
Steve Mills on sat 11 jun 11
This is not new. Theories akin to that have been around for years. I was aw=
a=3D
re of so called "free schooling" when I was a kid in the '40s.=3D20
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my Ipod touch
On 10 Jun 2011, at 14:20, sharonia628 wrote:
> How about this for dismantling education:
> I just heard a segment on NPR about the newest fad - called "unschooling"
> (as opposed to home schooling). Appears some folks have decided that thei=
r=3D
> children know best when, where, how and what to learn. At home or whereve=
r=3D
.
> This kid - 16 or 17 - said he didn't learn to read until he was 10 and
> wanted to play a game. His mother, a nurse (I believe), said it was
> important to let kids decide so as not to ruin their creativity and
> spontaneity. Right now the kid is "working" on his spelling. No news abou=
t=3D
> his learning math, science, art, music etc. Kid said he would be forever
> grateful to his parents for not interfering and pushing him when he wasn'=
t=3D
> ready.
>=3D20
> Kathi is right. Talk about the next generation. We'll probably elect him
> president or something. We'll deserve it.
>=3D20
> Sharon
>=3D20
> --
> Sharon La Rocca Miranda
> www.sharonmiranda.com
Lee on mon 13 jun 11
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 8:20 AM, sharonia628 wrote:
> How about this for dismantling education:
> I just heard a segment on NPR about the newest fad - called "unschooling"
Just heard about a friend's kid who was homeschooled. He got full
scholarship offers to Harvard, MIT and other top schools, but did not
tell his parents about them and decided to go to a local school so he
wouldn't have to leave home.
--=3D20
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Johanna San Inocencio on mon 13 jun 11
Sharon,
Unschooling as an educational concept and a homeschooling method has =3D
been around for a long time. Just because you are hearing about it now =3D
does not make it a fad. I did not happen to hear the NPR segment but =3D
know quite a bit about it from personal experience. The term =3D
"unschooling" was first used by John Holt, an educator from =3D
Massachusetts who eventually focused his life's work in supporting =3D
homeschoolers. He started a newsletter for homeschoolers called Growing =3D
Without Schooling in the mid 70's. There is a lot of controversy over =3D
the term and some home educators use different terminology like "child =3D
directed learning". I personally know several people who were raised =3D
with these educational principles who are successful adults, many having =
=3D
also attended college. You have probably interacted with people who were =
=3D
unschooled and never even realized it.
Johanna
On Jun 10, 2011, at 8:20 AM, sharonia628 wrote:
> How about this for dismantling education:
> I just heard a segment on NPR about the newest fad - called =3D
"unschooling"
> (as opposed to home schooling). Appears some folks have decided that =3D
their
> children know best when, where, how and what to learn. At home or =3D
wherever.
> This kid - 16 or 17 - said he didn't learn to read until he was 10 and
> wanted to play a game. His mother, a nurse (I believe), said it was
> important to let kids decide so as not to ruin their creativity and
> spontaneity. Right now the kid is "working" on his spelling. No news =3D
about
> his learning math, science, art, music etc. Kid said he would be =3D
forever
> grateful to his parents for not interfering and pushing him when he =3D
wasn't
> ready.
>=3D20
> Kathi is right. Talk about the next generation. We'll probably elect =3D
him
> president or something. We'll deserve it.
>=3D20
> Sharon
>=3D20
> --
> Sharon La Rocca Miranda
> www.sharonmiranda.com
Lis Allison on tue 14 jun 11
On June 13, 2011, Johanna San Inocencio wrote:
> Sharon,
> Unschooling as an educational concept and a homeschooling method has
> been around for a long time....
Speaking as a person who was largely home-schooled, I can tell you that
the real tragedy is that kids who miss the interaction with their peers
during their childhood and teen years will always be outsiders, and will
never fully fit in. Home-schooling may (I think, will) lead to higher
academic achievement, but in today's world that doesn't count for much.
Lis
--
Elisabeth Allison
Pine Ridge Studio
website: www.pine-ridge.ca
Pottery blog: www.studio-on-the-ridge.blogspot.com
Garden blog: www.garden-on-the-ridge.blogspot.com
jonathan byler on tue 14 jun 11
I have not noticed this to be a problem. I have a large number of
cousins who were homeschooled, and they are some of the most well
adapted, intelligent, and decent people I have met. They have also
become very successful at rather young ages. They have the advantage
that they were raised by adults and not by other ignorant children in
an overfull classroom. they had plenty of time to interact with other
children at church, while playing intramural sports, and while
participating in other activities.
the problem is, not everyone can homeschool their children. this is
just not an option for many families for a variety of reasons. and as
a society, we owe it to everyone to provide for a decent public
education so that everyone has an opportunity to do well for
themselves. there is no single answer for everyone, despite what many
would like.
On Jun 14, 2011, at 6:08 AM, Lis Allison wrote:
> On June 13, 2011, Johanna San Inocencio wrote:
>> Sharon,
>> Unschooling as an educational concept and a homeschooling method has
>> been around for a long time....
>
> Speaking as a person who was largely home-schooled, I can tell you
> that
> the real tragedy is that kids who miss the interaction with their
> peers
> during their childhood and teen years will always be outsiders, and
> will
> never fully fit in. Home-schooling may (I think, will) lead to higher
> academic achievement, but in today's world that doesn't count for
> much.
>
> Lis
>
> --
> Elisabeth Allison
> Pine Ridge Studio
> website: www.pine-ridge.ca
> Pottery blog: www.studio-on-the-ridge.blogspot.com
> Garden blog: www.garden-on-the-ridge.blogspot.com
Johanna San Inocencio on wed 15 jun 11
Jonathan,
Yes I agree. Children are best served by having lots of choices =3D
available to parents so they have the freedom to choose what is best for =
=3D
their families whether they choose homeschool, private school, public =3D
school or a combination of all.
Lis,
while I have seen a few over sheltered and socially awkward =3D
homeschoolers, most that I have known function well and often better =3D
around all age groups, not just their peers. i have also known lots of =3D
children that were socially awkward in school settings who were NOT =3D
helped by the public school model. My children always had interaction =3D
with others while homeschooling through sports teams they were on, =3D
friendships with other kids in the neighborhood, youth group, homeschool =
=3D
group activities, SCA, and a large extended family. I am sorry that your =
=3D
experience with socialization was not a positive one.
My original intention of posting was to help Sharon see that unschooling =
=3D
was not the scourge on society that she was envisioning. Education is a =3D
choice and one I believe better left to the decision of the parents, not =
=3D
the government or anyone else. (yes, I know there are occasionally =3D
extreme situations where the law needs to intervene, I am not addressing =
=3D
that here).
Johanna
=3D20
On Jun 14, 2011, at 12:36 PM, jonathan byler wrote:
> I have not noticed this to be a problem. I have a large number of
> cousins who were homeschooled, and they are some of the most well
> adapted, intelligent, and decent people I have met. They have also
> become very successful at rather young ages. They have the advantage
> that they were raised by adults and not by other ignorant children in
> an overfull classroom. they had plenty of time to interact with other
> children at church, while playing intramural sports, and while
> participating in other activities.
>=3D20
> the problem is, not everyone can homeschool their children. this is
> just not an option for many families for a variety of reasons. and as
> a society, we owe it to everyone to provide for a decent public
> education so that everyone has an opportunity to do well for
> themselves. there is no single answer for everyone, despite what many
> would like.
>=3D20
>=3D20
> On Jun 14, 2011, at 6:08 AM, Lis Allison wrote:
>=3D20
>> On June 13, 2011, Johanna San Inocencio wrote:
>>> Sharon,
>>> Unschooling as an educational concept and a homeschooling method has
>>> been around for a long time....
>>=3D20
>> Speaking as a person who was largely home-schooled, I can tell you
>> that
>> the real tragedy is that kids who miss the interaction with their
>> peers
>> during their childhood and teen years will always be outsiders, and
>> will
>> never fully fit in. Home-schooling may (I think, will) lead to higher
>> academic achievement, but in today's world that doesn't count for
>> much.
>>=3D20
>> Lis
>>=3D20
>> --
>> Elisabeth Allison
>> Pine Ridge Studio
>> website: www.pine-ridge.ca
>> Pottery blog: www.studio-on-the-ridge.blogspot.com
>> Garden blog: www.garden-on-the-ridge.blogspot.com
Randall Moody on wed 15 jun 11
I have to agree with Jonathan on this one. I believe the "home schoolers
are outsiders" is a fallacy used by some (not necessarily you Lis) to keep
the idea of homeschooling out of the mainstream and also in a way to keep
home schooled children "other". So far I am yet to meet a home schooled
child who was not polite and pleasant to be around. Granted that is just my
experience and is purely anecdotal. Many people choose home schooling for a
variety of reasons, but the two I hear the most are "our local schools are
simply not good" and "I want my child taught the subjects without the socia=
l
engineering so prevalent in public schools these days." It is rare that I
hear someone say they are home schooling for religious reasons.
I can see points on both sides of the issue.
--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 1:36 PM, jonathan byler wrote:
> I have not noticed this to be a problem. I have a large number of
> cousins who were homeschooled, and they are some of the most well
> adapted, intelligent, and decent people I have met. They have also
> become very successful at rather young ages. They have the advantage
> that they were raised by adults and not by other ignorant children in
> an overfull classroom. they had plenty of time to interact with other
> children at church, while playing intramural sports, and while
> participating in other activities.
>
> the problem is, not everyone can homeschool their children. this is
> just not an option for many families for a variety of reasons. and as
> a society, we owe it to everyone to provide for a decent public
> education so that everyone has an opportunity to do well for
> themselves. there is no single answer for everyone, despite what many
> would like.
>
>
>
> On Jun 14, 2011, at 6:08 AM, Lis Allison wrote:
>
> On June 13, 2011, Johanna San Inocencio wrote:
>>
>>> Sharon,
>>> Unschooling as an educational concept and a homeschooling method has
>>> been around for a long time....
>>>
>>
>> Speaking as a person who was largely home-schooled, I can tell you
>> that
>> the real tragedy is that kids who miss the interaction with their
>> peers
>> during their childhood and teen years will always be outsiders, and
>> will
>> never fully fit in.
>>
>
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