pdp1 on tue 5 jul 11
It's really pretty simple -
Do not stand in line with the Wheel ( nor permit anyone else to be in-line
with the Wheels ) when the Machine is starting up.
Wheels can get bumped or cracked when the Grinder is at rest...then, when
starting up, as the Wheels are coming up to speed, a cracked Wheel can fly
apart, and, it will fly apart in the plane of it's rotational axis.
Incidents of Wheels disintegrating while in use after having been up to
speed, are pretty much non-existent uless some entirely outraguous order of
impact can somehow cause the wheel to crack from being hit very hard from
the side...or, for a thin Wheel, disintegrating from outrageous amounts of
side pressure from forcing material into it on the Wheel's side, when the
Wheel was not designed for this.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Cravens"
When I was a jig builder at Boeing, the grinding wheels were partitioned of=
f
from the other work areas, and a full face shield was mandatory protection.
They had a training video hosted by an employee who had lost both eyes to a
shattered wheel.
They still considered the grinder a critical tool. You just have to give al=
l
tools the respect and awareness they demand.
William & Susan Schran User on tue 5 jul 11
On 7/5/11 10:46 AM, "James Freeman" wrote:
> Does anyone have firsthand experience with Harbor Freight bench
> grinders?
> I can see from the photo that the tool rests are junk, but I will be
> removing them anyway. I know also that the tools that Harbor Freight
> sells are low quality, but I am wondering if these things are even
> reasonably durable, or if I would just be wasting my money. Any
> advice would be appreciated.
We have a 6" bench grinder fitted with silicon carbide wheels at school
where I teach. Have had it 3 years, lots of grinding, especially from the
crystalline glaze class this past spring. Has held up well.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
James Freeman on tue 5 jul 11
Vince, and others...
Does anyone have firsthand experience with Harbor Freight bench
grinders? I am about to start a big metal sculpture project, and am
thinking about ordering this one to set up in the barn so I don't have
to haul my other one out of the basement workshop (It's only a 6"
grinder, so it's too small anyway):
http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-bench-grinder-39798.html
I can see from the photo that the tool rests are junk, but I will be
removing them anyway. I know also that the tools that Harbor Freight
sells are low quality, but I am wondering if these things are even
reasonably durable, or if I would just be wasting my money. Any
advice would be appreciated.
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness,
too preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice.=3DA0 I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
John Rodgers on tue 5 jul 11
James,
I cannot address the grinder issue, but will say that when ti comes to
tools and equipment, Harbor Freight is a mixed bag. Some tools are very
good, others are pure crap. Cast a wide net (talk wit a lot of people)
and you my find what is good and what is not. I have a turbine paint
sprayer from HF that I have had for a number of years. Cost at the time
was about $85. I use it as a glaze gun and it works really well for that
purpose. I have also had their HVLP top feed spray guns - fabulous. Low
cost and work really well. There is a lot of other stuff they carry that
is the same way, butr again - some of it is junk. With HF it's always YMMV.
Good hunting.
JOhn
John Rodgers
Clayartist and Moldmaker
88'GL VW Bus Driver
Chelsea, AL
Http://www.moldhaus.com
On 7/5/2011 9:46 AM, James Freeman wrote:
> Vince, and others...
>
> Does anyone have firsthand experience with Harbor Freight bench
> grinders? I am about to start a big metal sculpture project, and am
> thinking about ordering this one to set up in the barn so I don't have
> to haul my other one out of the basement workshop (It's only a 6"
> grinder, so it's too small anyway):
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-bench-grinder-39798.html
>
> I can see from the photo that the tool rests are junk, but I will be
> removing them anyway. I know also that the tools that Harbor Freight
> sells are low quality, but I am wondering if these things are even
> reasonably durable, or if I would just be wasting my money. Any
> advice would be appreciated.
>
> ...James
>
> James Freeman
>
> "...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness,
> too preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
>
> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
> should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
> -Michel de Montaigne
>
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
>
>
Arnold Howard on tue 5 jul 11
On 7/5/2011 9:46 AM, James Freeman wrote:
> Does anyone have firsthand experience with Harbor Freight bench
> grinders?
Years ago a custom sword smith named Phill Hartsfield told me he was
almost injured when a grinding wheel disintegrated. The pieces became
missiles that exploded throughout his shop. He warned me not to ever use
a grinding wheel such as the type you are considering. I believe he used
a belt sander.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
pdp1 on tue 5 jul 11
Hi James,
Darn, I got rid of a nice old good condition Free Standing Pedestal Grinder
a couple months ago.
An old 'Cincinnatti', 12 inch Wheel capacity, very robust, Drip Pan, all th=
e
amenities, 2 Horse? , I forget...probably made in the late 1920s...ran ultr=
a
quiet and smooth. Motor was 9 inches around, Shafts were 1-1/4 Inch.
That 'harbor freight' stuff just does not look good, smell good, feel good
or have any kind of good about it in any way whatever.
It's the wrong color 'pill'...and cultural suicide on the installment plan.
Lol...
Check your local want ads and or see if any used Machinery Dealers near
you...I am sure you can find a good one.
Love,
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Freeman"
Vince, and others...
Does anyone have firsthand experience with Harbor Freight bench
grinders? I am about to start a big metal sculpture project, and am
thinking about ordering this one to set up in the barn so I don't have
to haul my other one out of the basement workshop (It's only a 6"
grinder, so it's too small anyway):
http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-bench-grinder-39798.html
I can see from the photo that the tool rests are junk, but I will be
removing them anyway. I know also that the tools that Harbor Freight
sells are low quality, but I am wondering if these things are even
reasonably durable, or if I would just be wasting my money. Any
advice would be appreciated.
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness,
too preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
Paul Herman on tue 5 jul 11
James,
I have the exact same 8" grinder in my shop. It's been at least five
years since I got it, and I'm satisfied with it so far.
best,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
www.greatbasinpottery.com/
On Jul 5, 2011, at 7:46 AM, James Freeman wrote:
> Vince, and others...
>
> Does anyone have firsthand experience with Harbor Freight bench
> grinders? I am about to start a big metal sculpture project, and am
> thinking about ordering this one to set up in the barn so I don't have
> to haul my other one out of the basement workshop (It's only a 6"
> grinder, so it's too small anyway):
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-bench-grinder-39798.html
>
> I can see from the photo that the tool rests are junk, but I will be
> removing them anyway. I know also that the tools that Harbor Freight
> sells are low quality, but I am wondering if these things are even
> reasonably durable, or if I would just be wasting my money. Any
> advice would be appreciated.
>
> ...James
>
> James Freeman
Vince Pitelka on tue 5 jul 11
James Freeman wrote:
"Does anyone have firsthand experience with Harbor Freight bench grinders?
I am about to start a big metal sculpture project, and am thinking about
ordering this one to set up in the barn so I don't have to haul my other on=
e
out of the basement workshop (It's only a 6" grinder, so it's too small
anyway):
http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-bench-grinder-39798.html
James -
I once bought a cheap Chinese grinder that looked a lot like that one, and
it was a piece of crap. I learned my lesson. I have just heard so many
horror stories about the "Chicago Electric" power tools from Harbor Freight=
.
They are made to look like other brands of quality tools, but are cheap and
shoddy inside. I know that you are a guy who appreciates fine tools, and i=
f
you get the cheap grinder from Harbor Freight, you will regret it every tim=
e
you use it, and it will likely fail soon.
Good bench grinders are no longer expensive because of the competition from
fairly high-quality imported tools. I'd pay a little more and buy this one
- http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-Bench-Grinder/H4379 for about $80. If
that link doesn't work, just go to www.grizzly.com and enter "H4379" in the
search box. I have heard nothing but good reports about the products from
Grizzly, and have been very happy with the things I have purchased from the=
m
over the years. I know a lot of professional woodworkers who use Grizzly
tools and are happy with them. Grizzly manufactures their tools in China,
Korea, India, etc., but they seem to do a very good job of quality control.
If you would be more comfortable with a quality name brand, you could go a
step farther and get the DeWalt that Grizzly has at
http://www.grizzly.com/products/DW758-8-Bench-Grinder/T22016 for $120 (or
get it from amazon for $125 with free shipping). Two weeks ago I taught a
workshop at Studio 540 in Nevada City. I had requested a bench grinder for
grinding profile ribs. The studio owner Rene Sprattling had a funky bench
grinder, and decided to replace it. She bought the 6" DeWalt from Grizzly,
and it is a beauty. With a bench grinder, you can usually tell the minute
you turn it on, and this one purred.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Vince Pitelka on tue 5 jul 11
Arnold Howard wrote:
"Years ago a custom sword smith named Phill Hartsfield told me he was almos=
t
injured when a grinding wheel disintegrated. The pieces became missiles tha=
t
exploded throughout his shop. He warned me not to ever use
a grinding wheel such as the type you are considering. I believe he used a
belt sander."
Hi Arnold -
I know that your intentions are the best, and you are one of the Clayart
members who generally gives very sound, well considered information and
advice, but in this case you cannot dismiss the bench grinder because of
such accidents. It is too important as a piece of shop/studio equipment,
and there is no replacement for it. A belt sander is good for certain
things, but cannot replace the bench grinder for most applications. As I
wrote several months ago when someone else posted a similar message, a
critical safety consideration with any bench grinder is a matter of staying
"out of the line of fire" while the grinding wheels are coming up to speed.
If someone was carrying a length of 2x4 or angle iron through the studio an=
d
accidentally whacked the grinding wheel, cracking it, the moment it would
fly apart with explosive force is when it is reaching maximum RPMs. That
should be a part of every lesson on tool safety - stay out of the line of
fire. In 8th-grade metal-shop class at Garfield Junior High School in
Berkeley, Mr. Blanchard explained to all of us how you make sure no one els=
e
is in the line of fire, and then switch on the bench grinder and stand off
to the side while it comes up to speed. That way, on the incredibly remote
chance that one of the stones was cracked and might explode, you are out of
harm's way, because the pieces will fly outwards by centrifugal force
in-line with the wheel. That is when the wheel is subjected to the most
stress.
So, it makes sense to place the bench grinder in a protected, out-of-the-wa=
y
spot where it is less inclined to get bumped or whacked, and it is essentia=
l
to practice proper safety, standing off to the side while it is coming up t=
o
speed and wearing proper eye protection, but you really cannot dispense wit=
h
the bench grinder. As I said, nothing else takes its place.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Carl Cravens on tue 5 jul 11
When I was a jig builder at Boeing, the grinding wheels were partitioned of=
=3D
f from the other work areas, and a full face shield was mandatory protectio=
=3D
n. They had a training video hosted by an employee who had lost both eyes t=
=3D
o a shattered wheel.
They still considered the grinder a critical tool. Yo=3D
u just have to give all tools the respect and awareness they demand.
Vince=3D
Pitelka wrote:
Arnold Howard wrote:
"Years ago a cu=3D
stom sword smith named Phill Hartsfield told me he was almost
injured when =3D
a grinding wheel disintegrated. The pieces became missiles that
exploded th=3D
roughout his shop. He warned me not to ever use
a grinding wheel such as th=3D
e type you are considering. I believe he used a
belt sander."
Hi Arnold -
=3D
I know that your intentions are the best, and you are one of the Clayart
me=3D
mbers who generally gives very sound, well considered information and
advic=3D
e, but in this case you cannot dismiss the bench grinder because of
such ac=3D
cidents. It is too important as a piece of shop/studio equipment,
and there=3D
is no replacement for it. A belt sander is good for certain
things, but ca=3D
nnot replace the bench grinder for most applications. As I
wrote several mo=3D
nths ago when someone else posted a similar message, a
critical safety cons=3D
ideration with any bench grinder is a matter of staying
"out of the line of=3D
fire" while the grinding wheels are coming up to speed.
If someone was car=3D
rying a length of 2x4 or angle iron through the studio and
accidentally wha=3D
cked the grinding wheel, cracking it, the moment it would
fly apart with ex=3D
plosive force is when it is reaching maximum RPMs. That
should be a part of=3D
every lesson on tool safety - stay out of the line of
fire. In 8th-grade m=3D
etal-shop class at Garfield Junior High School in
Berkeley, Mr. Blanchard e=3D
xplained to all of us how you make sure no one else
is in the line of fire,=3D
and then switch on the bench grinder and stand off
to the side while it co=3D
mes up to speed. That way, on the incredibly remote
chance that one of the =3D
stones was cracked and might explode, you are out of
harm's way, because th=3D
e pieces will fly outwards by centrifugal force
in-line with the wheel. Tha=3D
t is when the wheel is subjected to the most
stress.
So, it makes sense to=3D
place the bench grinder in a protected, out-of-the-way
spot where it is le=3D
ss inclined to get bumped or whacked, and it is essential
to practice prope=3D
r safety, standing off to the side while it is coming up to
speed and weari=3D
ng proper eye protection, but you really cannot dispense with
the bench gri=3D
nder. As I said, nothing else takes its place.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appal=3D
achian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpit=3D
elka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Carl Cravens on tue 5 jul 11
I have a HF bench grinder. It's cheap, but it runs true and does the job. I=
=3D
've never used it for heavy work, though.
James Freeman o@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
Vince, and others...
Does anyone have firsthand exper=3D
ience with Harbor Freight bench
grinders? I am about to start a big metal s=3D
culpture project, and am
thinking about ordering this one to set up in the =3D
barn so I don't have
to haul my other one out of the basement workshop (It'=3D
s only a 6"
grinder, so it's too small anyway):
http://www.harborfreight.c=3D
om/8-inch-bench-grinder-39798.html
I can see from the photo that the tool =3D
rests are junk, but I will be
removing them anyway. I know also that the to=3D
ols that Harbor Freight
sells are low quality, but I am wondering if these =3D
things are even
reasonably durable, or if I would just be wasting my money.=3D
Any
advice would be appreciated.
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider ar=3D
tists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness,
too preciously idiosyn=3D
cratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and noth=3D
ing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be=3D
believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://=3D
www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com=3D
/resources
Tommy Humphries on wed 6 jul 11
I would also suggest checking out your local pawn shop for your tool
needs. Many high quality tools can be found at dirt cheap prices
there. Bought a half inch milwaukee angle drill kit once for 5 bucks,
didn't run. Went down to the local motor repair shop, paid .50 for a
pair of brushes for the motor. Been running strong now for 25 years.
400.00 drill back then!
Tommy Humphries
Arnold Howard on wed 6 jul 11
On 7/5/2011 5:45 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
A belt sander is good for certain
> things, but cannot replace the bench grinder for most applications. As I
> wrote several months ago when someone else posted a similar message, a
> critical safety consideration with any bench grinder is a matter of stayi=
ng
> "out of the line of fire" while the grinding wheels are coming up to spee=
d.
Vince's post on safe use of a grinding wheel is so logical and clear
that I would now buy a grinding wheel if I ever needed one. Thanks to
Vince, Carl, and Phil for your excellent safety advice.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Ric Swenson on wed 6 jul 11
you get what you pay for.... why be a cheap bastard?
that never changes.
be a sucker or do not...
don't be cheap for something that really matters..like a wheel...kiln or g=
rinder
want it to serve for weeks...or for years?
expend wisely.
IMHO
ric
http:blog.sina.com.cn/ricswenson
"...then fiery expedition be my wing, ..."
-Wm. Shakespeare, RICHARD III, Act IV Scene III
Richard H. ("Ric") Swenson, Teacher,
Office of International Cooperation and Exchange of Jingdezhen Ceramic Inst=
itute,
TaoYang Road, Eastern Suburb, Jingdezhen City.
JiangXi Province, P.R. of China.
Postal code 333001.
Mobile/cellular phone : 86 13767818872
< RicSwenson0823@hotmail.com>
http://www.jci.jx.cn
> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 17:35:48 -0500
> From: vpitelka@DTCCOM.NET
> Subject: Re: Harbor Freight grinder
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>
> James Freeman wrote:
> "Does anyone have firsthand experience with Harbor Freight bench grinders=
?
> I am about to start a big metal sculpture project, and am thinking about
> ordering this one to set up in the barn so I don't have to haul my other =
one
> out of the basement workshop (It's only a 6" grinder, so it's too small
> anyway):
> http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-bench-grinder-39798.html
>
> James -
> I once bought a cheap Chinese grinder that looked a lot like that one, an=
d
> it was a piece of crap. I learned my lesson. I have just heard so many
> horror stories about the "Chicago Electric" power tools from Harbor Freig=
ht.
> They are made to look like other brands of quality tools, but are cheap a=
nd
> shoddy inside. I know that you are a guy who appreciates fine tools, and =
if
> you get the cheap grinder from Harbor Freight, you will regret it every t=
ime
> you use it, and it will likely fail soon.
>
> Good bench grinders are no longer expensive because of the competition fr=
om
> fairly high-quality imported tools. I'd pay a little more and buy this on=
e
> - http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-Bench-Grinder/H4379 for about $80. If
> that link doesn't work, just go to www.grizzly.com and enter "H4379" in t=
he
> search box. I have heard nothing but good reports about the products from
> Grizzly, and have been very happy with the things I have purchased from t=
hem
> over the years. I know a lot of professional woodworkers who use Grizzly
> tools and are happy with them. Grizzly manufactures their tools in China,
> Korea, India, etc., but they seem to do a very good job of quality contro=
l.
>
>
> If you would be more comfortable with a quality name brand, you could go =
a
> step farther and get the DeWalt that Grizzly has at
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/DW758-8-Bench-Grinder/T22016 for $120 (or
> get it from amazon for $125 with free shipping). Two weeks ago I taught a
> workshop at Studio 540 in Nevada City. I had requested a bench grinder fo=
r
> grinding profile ribs. The studio owner Rene Sprattling had a funky bench
> grinder, and decided to replace it. She bought the 6" DeWalt from Grizzly=
,
> and it is a beauty. With a bench grinder, you can usually tell the minute
> you turn it on, and this one purred.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
David Woof on thu 7 jul 11
With the economy hitting the trades hard;=3D3B Pawn shops are getti=
ng=3D
real choosey about what they take
so quality is usually high. Guys out =
=3D
of work still have to feed their kids=3D2C selling one'=3D3Bs
tools =
seem=3D
s the last thing someone should do and it usually is but "=3D3Byour gain=
&#=3D
34=3D3B and
it does indirectly help the next guy in because there is a =
ma=3D
rket in operation.
Just have a prayer in your heart for the unfortunate=
=3D
one who had to pawn it.
=3D3B
Regarding Milwaukee Tools=3D2C fo=
r th=3D
e money spent and life of tool=3D2C they are up there with
the best.>I=3D
buy them new=3D2C occasionally used=3D2C and use them hard.
David =
Woof=3D
____________________
Re:=3D3B Harbor Freight grinder
=
Po=3D
sted by:=3D3B "=3D3BTommy Humphries"=3D3B tommyhumphries@=3D3BS=
BCGLOBAL=3D
.NET
Date:=3D3B Thu Jul 7=3D2C 2011 1:=3D3B47 am (=3D3B=
0=3D3BPDT&=3D
#41=3D3B)=3D3B
I would also suggest checking out your local pawn=
sho=3D
p for your tool
needs. Many high quality tools can be found at dirt che=
=3D
ap prices
there. Bought a half inch milwaukee angle drill kit once for 5=
=3D
bucks=3D2C
didn'=3D3Bt run. Went down to the local motor repair shop=
=3D2C =3D
paid .50 for a
pair of brushes for the motor. Been running strong now fo=
=3D
r 25 years.
400.00 drill back then!=3D3B
Tommy Humphries
=
r>
=3D
pdp1 on sat 9 jul 11
Hi Wayne,
What kind of Drill Bit were you using?
Phil
L v
----- Original Message -----
From: "WJ Seidl"
> And now, if I may; the other side to that particular coin.
>
> I recently needed another 1/2 inch drill motor. I have a Craftsman
> 1/2 inch, but it just seemed a bit "light" for all the drilling I was
> contemplating,
> consisting of drilling maybe 150 1/2 inch holes through 12 inches of
> hemlock.
>
> So I went out and bought a Porter Cable. My reasoning was that it was a
> tool
> on which I could depend, ones that "professionals" use. That drill motor
> was $85, where a Craftsman was $59.
> Okay...the quality is worth the extra price I thought.
>
> I was wrong. The PC drill lasted 2 holes, started to smoke half way
> through the second hole
> and burst into flames as I was removing it from the hole. The Craftsman
> drilled one hole
> and it too died. (It is four years old, and had medium use.)
>
> Here's what I discovered...the Craftsman has replaceable brushes. I
> took it apart and cleaned the
> armature, touched up the ends of the brushes, reassembled it and went
> back to work. It's fine.
>
> The Porter Cable does NOT have accessible brushes. It got packed back
> into its box
> and sent directly to Porter Cable, with a letter telling them I was not
> amused; that if this is the kind of quality they espouse,
> they can keep their products. I told them I didn't want a replacement
> from them, for fear of the same thing happening again.
> I have yet to receive any type of response (and really don't expect one
> given the level of customer service one finds these days).
>
> Will I buy a tool without looking at it in a store? Possibly, if I
> already own one or if I sincerely believe the company puts out quality
> products.
> It did not help me to be "up close and personal" when I was shopping for
> that Porter Cable.
>
> So far, my DeWalt corded drill has outlived three other brands, and seen
> very hard use. My Bosch chipping hammer/ drill
> has been put through hell and continues on like it's new. But so has my
> Black and Decker 3/8 cheapo drill.
> Buying quality does not equate to "buying a name brand" these days.
> You don't always get what you pay for, either.
>
> Best,
> Wayne Seidl
>
> On 7/9/2011 7:48 PM, James Freeman wrote:
>>
>> Thank you to everyone who replied, both on list and off. I did
>> consider all of the advice, but it was ultimately Vince's club over
>> the head that knocked some sense back into me. Vince, you are quite
>> right; almost every time I have purchased a cheap tool, I have
>> regretted it (and usually replaced it!). A few years ago I purchased
>> a cheap chop saw from Harbor Freight. I managed to build one kiln
>> frame with it, though it was a nightmare to get the angles right with
>> the cheapo fence assembly and shoddy clamp on the saw. I next used it
>> to cut some 2" box channel to build a studio table, and the saw died
>> halfway through the second cut. I ended up buying the big, beautiful
>> Milwaukee chop saw that I should have purchased in the first place.
>>
>> I decided to purchase the DeWalt grinder that Vince had recommended,
>> but at the last minute, heeding Phil's advice to look for a used
>> industrial grinder, I checked Ebay to see what they had to offer. I
>> just purchased a brand new Porter Cable 5 amp, 8" grinder, with work
>> light and variable speed, for $56, only $6 more than I would have
>> spent on the cheap Harbor Freight tool! Woo hoo! Can't wait to get
>> to work.
>>
>> All the best.
>>
>> ...James
>>
>> James Freeman
James Freeman on sat 9 jul 11
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 6:35 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> I know that you are a guy who appreciates fine tools, and if
> you get the cheap grinder from Harbor Freight, you will regret it every t=
=3D
ime
> you use it, and it will likely fail soon.
>
> If you would be more comfortable with a quality name brand, you could go =
=3D
a
> step farther and get the DeWalt that Grizzly has at
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/DW758-8-Bench-Grinder/T22016 for $120 (or
> get it from amazon for $125 with free shipping).
Thank you to everyone who replied, both on list and off. I did
consider all of the advice, but it was ultimately Vince's club over
the head that knocked some sense back into me. Vince, you are quite
right; almost every time I have purchased a cheap tool, I have
regretted it (and usually replaced it!). A few years ago I purchased
a cheap chop saw from Harbor Freight. I managed to build one kiln
frame with it, though it was a nightmare to get the angles right with
the cheapo fence assembly and shoddy clamp on the saw. I next used it
to cut some 2" box channel to build a studio table, and the saw died
halfway through the second cut. I ended up buying the big, beautiful
Milwaukee chop saw that I should have purchased in the first place.
I decided to purchase the DeWalt grinder that Vince had recommended,
but at the last minute, heeding Phil's advice to look for a used
industrial grinder, I checked Ebay to see what they had to offer. I
just purchased a brand new Porter Cable 5 amp, 8" grinder, with work
light and variable speed, for $56, only $6 more than I would have
spent on the cheap Harbor Freight tool! Woo hoo! Can't wait to get
to work.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness,
too preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice.=3DA0 I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
pdp1 on sat 9 jul 11
Hi James,
Glad to read of the happy outcome..!
Ebay...
Freecycle...
Craigslist...
Local Want Ads in the noose-paper or scene-zines...
Always well worth sounding.
I am working on my No. 2 Step Van to-day...got the 25 Gallon Gas Tank pulle=
d
( fell right on my abdomen when I got the last Bolt out...you'd think I
would have seen that coming, and, well, I dunno, guess I did not care, but
Woo Hoo! That kinda took the wind outta me for a moment there, let me tell
you...damned thing still had quite a bit of old stale Gasolene in it ) and
now all sluiced out and spiffy, so on to re-install now, and, put in a new
Battery and then see if I can figure out where the hell I'd put the Keys si=
x
years ago or whenever it was, so I can fire it up! Oye, hundred-an'-hot out
again and HUMID too, so sweating to beat the Band. Really nice rolling
around in the gravel out there, under the Van, working on it and so on, Thi=
s
is the Life!
I will find something to Grind on with the old Van, just so Life feels
complete...in fact, some Bozo welded on some clips on the Cargo Floor, whic=
h
are just perfect for tripping on or snagging things on, so, those gotta
go...and, likely, it'll be Mr. Thor Grinder of the monsterously large but
none-the-less Hand Held sort, who gets the Gig...
Lol...
Grind on! And do it with Love..!
Best wishes,
Phil
L v
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Freeman"
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 6:35 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> I know that you are a guy who appreciates fine tools, and if
> you get the cheap grinder from Harbor Freight, you will regret it every
> time
> you use it, and it will likely fail soon.
>
> If you would be more comfortable with a quality name brand, you could go =
a
> step farther and get the DeWalt that Grizzly has at
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/DW758-8-Bench-Grinder/T22016 for $120 (or
> get it from amazon for $125 with free shipping).
Thank you to everyone who replied, both on list and off. I did
consider all of the advice, but it was ultimately Vince's club over
the head that knocked some sense back into me. Vince, you are quite
right; almost every time I have purchased a cheap tool, I have
regretted it (and usually replaced it!). A few years ago I purchased
a cheap chop saw from Harbor Freight. I managed to build one kiln
frame with it, though it was a nightmare to get the angles right with
the cheapo fence assembly and shoddy clamp on the saw. I next used it
to cut some 2" box channel to build a studio table, and the saw died
halfway through the second cut. I ended up buying the big, beautiful
Milwaukee chop saw that I should have purchased in the first place.
I decided to purchase the DeWalt grinder that Vince had recommended,
but at the last minute, heeding Phil's advice to look for a used
industrial grinder, I checked Ebay to see what they had to offer. I
just purchased a brand new Porter Cable 5 amp, 8" grinder, with work
light and variable speed, for $56, only $6 more than I would have
spent on the cheap Harbor Freight tool! Woo hoo! Can't wait to get
to work.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness,
too preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
WJ Seidl on sat 9 jul 11
And now, if I may; the other side to that particular coin.
I recently needed another 1/2 inch drill motor. I have a Craftsman
1/2 inch, but it just seemed a bit "light" for all the drilling I was
contemplating,
consisting of drilling maybe 150 1/2 inch holes through 12 inches of
hemlock.
So I went out and bought a Porter Cable. My reasoning was that it was a
tool
on which I could depend, ones that "professionals" use. That drill motor
was $85, where a Craftsman was $59.
Okay...the quality is worth the extra price I thought.
I was wrong. The PC drill lasted 2 holes, started to smoke half way
through the second hole
and burst into flames as I was removing it from the hole. The Craftsman
drilled one hole
and it too died. (It is four years old, and had medium use.)
Here's what I discovered...the Craftsman has replaceable brushes. I
took it apart and cleaned the
armature, touched up the ends of the brushes, reassembled it and went
back to work. It's fine.
The Porter Cable does NOT have accessible brushes. It got packed back
into its box
and sent directly to Porter Cable, with a letter telling them I was not
amused; that if this is the kind of quality they espouse,
they can keep their products. I told them I didn't want a replacement
from them, for fear of the same thing happening again.
I have yet to receive any type of response (and really don't expect one
given the level of customer service one finds these days).
Will I buy a tool without looking at it in a store? Possibly, if I
already own one or if I sincerely believe the company puts out quality
products.
It did not help me to be "up close and personal" when I was shopping for
that Porter Cable.
So far, my DeWalt corded drill has outlived three other brands, and seen
very hard use. My Bosch chipping hammer/ drill
has been put through hell and continues on like it's new. But so has my
Black and Decker 3/8 cheapo drill.
Buying quality does not equate to "buying a name brand" these days.
You don't always get what you pay for, either.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
On 7/9/2011 7:48 PM, James Freeman wrote:
>
> Thank you to everyone who replied, both on list and off. I did
> consider all of the advice, but it was ultimately Vince's club over
> the head that knocked some sense back into me. Vince, you are quite
> right; almost every time I have purchased a cheap tool, I have
> regretted it (and usually replaced it!). A few years ago I purchased
> a cheap chop saw from Harbor Freight. I managed to build one kiln
> frame with it, though it was a nightmare to get the angles right with
> the cheapo fence assembly and shoddy clamp on the saw. I next used it
> to cut some 2" box channel to build a studio table, and the saw died
> halfway through the second cut. I ended up buying the big, beautiful
> Milwaukee chop saw that I should have purchased in the first place.
>
> I decided to purchase the DeWalt grinder that Vince had recommended,
> but at the last minute, heeding Phil's advice to look for a used
> industrial grinder, I checked Ebay to see what they had to offer. I
> just purchased a brand new Porter Cable 5 amp, 8" grinder, with work
> light and variable speed, for $56, only $6 more than I would have
> spent on the cheap Harbor Freight tool! Woo hoo! Can't wait to get
> to work.
>
> All the best.
>
> ...James
>
> James Freeman
Robert Klander on sun 10 jul 11
The sadness is very deep when I hear stories like this about a once-quality
American manufacturer. When I made my living as a wood-worker, Porter-Cabl=
e
tools were right up there with Milwaukee tools with regard to quality. And=
,
they were priced accordingly. But, those tools could be counted on to
perform even with years of hard use.
Recently, I had need of a new angle grinder. Living where I do, access to
tools is dominated by the local Lowes, so off I went to find a replacement.
I didn't need to pay up for the absolute best tool available, as I only nee=
d
it to grind shelves once in a great while...but still, I didn't want to
waste my cash on the bottom line option, either. BTDT...
The Porter-Cable looked like a good option, and I was at first confident
that it would perform well, having had used many of their routers, drills,
saws, etc. those many years ago...And, I wanted to "buy American"...
The clerk pointed out that no matter which brand I decided on, I could not
"buy American"! Sure enough, upon inspection of the packaging, Made In
China was printed on each brand offered. All of them!...I was deeply
shocked, disturbed by this realization.
Just like the American Auto industry of the 1970's, the quality control tha=
t
insured such fine durability in past years is no longer as constant.
Now, there is no evidence that "You get what you pay for": Maybe, maybe not=
.
Robert Klander
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Buying quality does not equate to "buying a name brand" these days.
You don't always get what you pay for, either.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
Anita Rickenberg on sun 10 jul 11
I became a fan of Milwaukee tools when I needed replacement parts for a
grinder that I'd had more than 10 years. Knowing the planned obsolescence
of most things I figured it was probably a waste of time to contact the
manufacturer but figured I'd try anyway. I got an immediate response that
yes, they had replacement parts and they were in stock. The price was
reasonable and shipping was fast. They've had my business for any new tools
since then.
Anita
James Freeman on sun 10 jul 11
On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 9:35 PM, WJ Seidl wrote:
> And now, if I may; the other side to that particular coin.
>
> I recently needed another 1/2 inch drill motor. I have a Craftsman
> 1/2 inch, but it just seemed a bit "light" for all the drilling I was
> contemplating,
> consisting of drilling maybe 150 1/2 inch holes through 12 inches of
> hemlock.
The PC drill lasted 2 holes, started to smoke half way
> through the second hole
> and burst into flames as I was removing it from the hole. The Craftsman
> drilled one hole
> and it too died.
Hi Wayne, all...
OK, so drills are something I know a little bit about. after burning
up a number of them working on my log house. Drills fall into three
basic categories, homeowner, contractor, and professional. Many of
the manufacturers offer models in several different categories, so
sometimes it is hard to know what you are getting based solely on
brand. Price is a more reliable indicator.
Homeowner-grade drills are typically priced in the range of $60 or
less. They are made to poke holes once in a while, and when used in
such fashion will last the average homeowner a lifetime. They tend to
be made entirely of plastic, including the structural members which
hold and locate the guts inside the case. They have cheap bearings,
often just bronze sleeves or similar. They usually have 1/4" or 3/8"
chucks, though the larger size is mostly for convenience and
marketing, as they really don't have enough huevos to handle large
drill bits with any frequency.
Contractor-grade drills usually fall into the $90-$140 or so range.
They are made for drilling somewhat more serious holes, but only on a
periodic basis, and are not suitable for continuous operation. These
tools have stronger motors, often with replaceable brushes, and better
bearings. While the cases are still plastic (isn't everything?), one
will often find metal in high stress areas. These drills will have
3/8" or 1/2" chucks, but like their smaller brethren, 1/2" shank tools
will be pushing it. As the name implies, this is the grade of tool
that you will often see professional handymen and carpenters carrying,
folks who don't drill serious holes too often, but need a reliable
tool with a bit of guts.
Professional-grade drills are for those who poke a lot of holes and do
so all the time, such as electricians and plumbers, or for those who
need to spin some pretty serious tools or bits. Professional drills
run $300 and up. On the job, you will almost always see one brand,
Milwaukee "Hole Hawg", though in the REALLY serious range, Bosch is
probably tops. DeWalt makes clones of the Milwaukees, though I have
no experience with them. This grade of tool will drill through most
anything you can throw at it, and will do so all day long without
complaint. This is the grade which tool rental stores will have on
offer, and if you only need it once in a while, like your one-time
job, renting is a very good option.
Once you are trying to drill through a foot of solid wood, even a
moderately soft wood like hemlock, you are drilling a serious hole,
and you need a serious drill. When I built the railings for my house,
I had to turn 2" tenons onto the ends of some 4-5" diameter spruce
poles. The tenon cutter, which operates something like a giant pencil
sharpener, had a 1/2" shank, but the tool was bigger than my 1/2"
DeWalt contractor-grade drill! When I tried to cut the first tenon,
the drill just stopped dead while the cutter laughed at me. I
borrowed a massive 1/2" inline Milwaukee Hole Hawg, and was able to
cut these large tenons with no strain whatsoever on the drill (though
pretty serious strain on me!). While cutting the tenons, I strapped
the pole to two wooden saw horses. At one point my tenon cutter
caught on the pole, and the drill had so much power that it flipped
the pole and both saw horses before I could let go of the trigger.
Scared the @$#*^ out of me! (I put a photo of part of the railing on
my Flickr page, if anyone is curious:
www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio )
My DeWalt contractor-grade drill is able to spin the small tenon
cutters I use to make twig furniture, but even these small cutters
(1/2", 5/8", and 3/4") seriously tax the drill. The motor gets quite
hot, and I know the drill will not last very long. I borrowed a a
right angle Milwaukee Hole Hawg from my electrician, and it cut these
tenons with ease. When the DeWalt gives up the ghost, I will be
replacing it with a right angle Hole Hawg. (I also put up a few
pictures of my twig furniture, same Flickr page)
Just my experience and opinion. YMMV.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness,
too preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice.=3DA0 I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
pdp1 on sun 10 jul 11
Some of the best quality and most elegant Drills I have enjoyed owning and
using at my tasks, were made for use in the Aircraft Manufacturing Industry
or for conditions of similar sophistication ( justificaiton of cost ) or
special context.
These tend to cost new now, about ten times what a so called 'Industrial'
Rated Drill does.
One would never see these in any stores.
Hence, all the ones I have are fairly old, and, I got lucky to find and
purchase them at that.
There is something kind of nice about using a really good Drill which has a
small Brass Tag which says "Property United States Army Air Corps" or
'Property of A.E.C.", or 'Property of Westinghouse Experimental Labs",
"Lockheed', etc.
These tend to be Pnuematic, but, some were Electric also.
Nice thing about those also, or the Pnuematic ones anyway, even in the 1930=
s
many were variable Speed and reversing.
Super compact Right-Angle designs for tight places, on and on.
Nice...
'Milwaukee' Drills were still very good not too long ago, and, maybe some
still are.
Far as anything 'New' since the 1970s, 'Milwaukee' ( or older ones so to
speak of their make, ) is about the only Brand I myself would consider if I
was needing to buy a 'New' drill of some sort...but this does not mean ever=
y
Model would be a contender.
Sadly, all of the 'Contractors' I was ever around since the 1980s, had junk
tools, and, took horrible care of them. They bought everything at 'Home
Club' or the likes...ruin it and throw it away and buy another one.
Same with all the Pnuematic Fastener Guns any more - all junk, all stupid
looking, all cheezy, and 'Puhhh-Tooooey'.
Stupid boorish 'contractors' and indifferent unfamiliar and confused or
apathetic home owners are what has driven the 'market' now for many decades=
.
I used to think that the only thing good about the 1950s, were the
continuity and habits and artifacts which were still abundant from several
decades prior.
Well, I still think that.
Of course, all of that has thinned out a great deal, too...since.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Klander"
> The sadness is very deep when I hear stories like this about a
> once-quality
> American manufacturer. When I made my living as a wood-worker,
> Porter-Cable
> tools were right up there with Milwaukee tools with regard to quality.
> And,
> they were priced accordingly. But, those tools could be counted on to
> perform even with years of hard use.
>
> Recently, I had need of a new angle grinder. Living where I do, access t=
o
> tools is dominated by the local Lowes, so off I went to find a
> replacement.
>
> I didn't need to pay up for the absolute best tool available, as I only
> need
> it to grind shelves once in a great while...but still, I didn't want to
> waste my cash on the bottom line option, either. BTDT...
>
> The Porter-Cable looked like a good option, and I was at first confident
> that it would perform well, having had used many of their routers, drills=
,
> saws, etc. those many years ago...And, I wanted to "buy American"...
>
> The clerk pointed out that no matter which brand I decided on, I could no=
t
> "buy American"! Sure enough, upon inspection of the packaging, Made In
> China was printed on each brand offered. All of them!...I was deeply
> shocked, disturbed by this realization.
>
> Just like the American Auto industry of the 1970's, the quality control
> that
> insured such fine durability in past years is no longer as constant.
>
> Now, there is no evidence that "You get what you pay for": Maybe, maybe
> not.
>
>
> Robert Klander
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>
> Buying quality does not equate to "buying a name brand" these days.
> You don't always get what you pay for, either.
>
> Best,
> Wayne Seidl
pdp1 on sun 10 jul 11
Hi James, Wayne, all,
Well, the problem in many instances of drilling deep Holes in Wood, is that
the Wood Chips begin binding the Drill Bit...and or in doing so, create mor=
e
resistence than the Drill Motor can overcome.
This can over-power even a very large and very powerful Drill Motor.
Conversely, very deep holes can be drilled in Wood up to even around 3/4
inch in diameter, using a small 1/4 inch
Chuck Drill Motor, as long as the Bit is sharp, and, sharpened correctly fo=
r
the task, and, as long as by one means or another, one clears out the Wood
Chips as one goes, to prevent the Drill Bit from binding in the Hole.
For deep Holes, one can use any usual length or short 'cheapie' 1/4 inch
Shank Machinist's type Twist-Drill Bit, re-sharpened in a special way for
Wood, and, use a
Drill Bit extention of a kind suited for the shank of the Drill Bit.
Quarter Inch capacity Drill Bit Extentions come in various lengths and will
accept any 1/4 Inch Drill Shank.
Regular Spade Bits can be re-sharpened to cut greatly more effeciently in
Wood or other non-Ferrous Materials, but are liable to have binding issues
of their own when used in drilling deep Holes in Wood.
Far better, is the use of Standard Machinist type Twist Drills which one ha=
s
re-sharpened to cut greatly more effeciently in Wood than they would if lef=
t
in their usual configuration for use in Steel/Metals.
For this, one would re-sharpen them to be what is usually called a 'Brad
Point' Drill, having a short sharp central point which extends slightly pas=
t
the perimeter 'Ears', a relieved and sharpened area betwen the central poin=
t
and the
permimiter, and, sharp 'Ears' at the permimiter which are sharpened at thei=
r
inside of course, and, not touched on their outside area.
A correctly re-sharpened to be a 'Brad Point' Twist Drill ( of what had bee=
n
a usual Machinists Twist Drill ) of say, 1/2 or 9/16ths or 5/8ths of an Inc=
h
in diameter, with a 1/4 inch Shank, and fitted to a usual 1/4 inch Shank
Drill Bit extention, used in an average cheap low power 'plastic' body 1/4
Inch Capacity Chuck Drill Motor, will perform perfectly well in Drilling
very
deep Holes in Hemlock or other Construction Woods, Beams, Glue Lam Beams,
Posts, or whatever.
This kind of Drill Bit also allows easy clearing of the Wood Chips by
frequent withdrawl to bring the Chips out.
One drills maybe half-an-inch worth, or less, and, pulls out the Chips whil=
e
the Bit
is rotating, drills another 1/2 Inch or so, clears the Chips out again, etc=
.
This typs of Cutting tip also allows the Drill Bit to produce very long dee=
p
straight Holes without following the Grain or being deflected by Knots or
other density anomalies/inconsistencies of the Wood.
Horsepower helps with larger diameter Holes, as of course the mechanical
leverage of the periphery is greater, but, the same principles still apply =
-
Drill BIts must be correctly suited for the Task and be sharpened correctly
for use in Wood, and, must be "Sharp".
Drilling waste in a Hole will bind the Drill Bit unto fatality of the Drill
Motor, unless cleared out very frequently before it can build up.
Love,
Phil
L v
Vince Pitelka on sun 10 jul 11
Anita Rickenberg wrote:
"I became a fan of Milwaukee tools when I needed replacement parts for a
grinder that I'd had more than 10 years. Knowing the planned obsolescence
of most things I figured it was probably a waste of time to contact the
manufacturer but figured I'd try anyway. I got an immediate response that
yes, they had replacement parts and they were in stock. The price was
reasonable and shipping was fast. They've had my business for any new tools
since then."
That has been my experience as well. I became acquainted with Milwaukee
tools in the late 1960s in Stephen Daly's foundry program at Humboldt State=
.
We had several Milwaukee 7"/9" angle grinders, and I gained a great deal of
respect for them. That's what we used for cutting the sprues and vents off
our castings, and for general grinding and cleanup work on fabricated steel
work.
For reasons I do not know, Milwaukee tools are frequently offered at
discount prices on Amazon. Several years ago I bought a 5" angle grinder
for half-price, and shortly after that a pair of lithium-ion compact drills
- one with Jacobs chuck and one with a socket for hex bits. Just a few
months ago, when it was offered for less than half-price, I bought their
largest 7"/9" angle grinder for really heavy work. Obviously the design ha=
s
changed since those all aluminum and steel angle grinders we used in foundr=
y
class. Now the body and handle are plastic, but very tough, thick plastic,
and aside from that the quality seems as high as ever.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
WJ Seidl on mon 11 jul 11
James:
I, like you , was under the impression that hemlock is a soft wood,
being a member of the fir family.
However, then I moved to Maine...my opinion has changed.
Take a piece of fresh cut hemlock, say, a 4X4 or 6X6.
Have it rough cut to true dimensions.
Now stack it (under cover or not, either way) out in your yard. Let the
rain and snow and weather hit it for a year.
Now that it's aged a year, go ahead and just drive a spike into it...I
dare you!
That hemlock is stronger than hornbeam (which is a hardwood called
"ironwood" up here.)
I regularly cut chunks of hemlock for use around the farm. Cutting
through, my chainsaw chain will shoot sparks,
and from what I'm told, that's NOT an unusual occurrence. Not, it's not
from nails,either.
Yes, drilling through a foot of any kind of wood is serious work. Doing
so over and over is sometimes called "carpentry".
Any drill, properly used, should be able to accomplish that task,
subject to the limitations of the machine.
You can't just hog through a beam that size without stopping
occasionally and withdrawing the bit to clear the hole, etc.
But NO drill, under any circumstances, given proper use, should burst
into flames after two holes.
That's just sh*tty engineering/manufacturing.
Best,
Wayne
On 7/10/2011 11:28 AM, James Freeman wrote:
>
> Once you are trying to drill through a foot of solid wood, even a
> moderately soft wood like hemlock, you are drilling a serious hole,
| |
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