Suchman ceramics on fri 22 jul 11
I have a metal lathe for sale...........just sayin'
On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 7:43 PM, Dan Pfeiffer wrote:
> How many they will see depends on the price. If they set it way high only
> someone who is sure it will make him some money will buy one. If they mak=
e
> is cheap anyone who thinks it fun to try will buy one.
>
> There once was a guy who sold a software compiler for $30 dollars when th=
e
> going price was $400. he needed to build a new factor to keep up with
> demand. make tons of money because anyone who had any interest bought a
> copy.
>
> If there are smart and have any real interest in making them they need to
> find out what the cost is to them and make a small profit. If under $100 =
I
> would think about it. < $50 and I would just buy it on the chance I could
> make it work, over $100 I can do without.
>
> Dan & Laurel
> www.pfeifferfirearts.com
>
>
> >> They are considering making the 1-1/4" set again and asked me what I
> would be willing to pay for such a set. So, I am throwing some questions
> out
> to Clayart:>>
>
--
-e-in-o'side-
pagan by nature
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/42169721@N04/
William & Susan Schran User on fri 22 jul 11
On 7/22/11 5:01 PM, "David Hendley" wrote:
> As far as use, I use the 1 1/4" set to make threaded stoppers
> for bottles, and the 2 3/4" set to make threaded caps for
> jugs or bottles. The 2" set is not so useful. It is too big to
> make a solid stopper and the opening ends up being pretty
> small if it is used to make a threaded cap. I make a few pots
> with it from time to time just because it is there, but a potter who
> wants to screw around could get along just fine without it.
> By the way, like most everything that has to do with clay, you
> don't just get a potters tap and die, do a little screwing as
> you'd do to make a threaded rod with a metal die, and end
> up with a threaded lid. Plan on messing up several dozen
> lids, stoppers, and bottles before you get the hang of it.
Hey David,
When I saw the original post asking if others might be interested in having
Bluebird make the tap & die sets again, I responded yes and with a fairly
low price. Then I began to wonder if there might be a more inexpensive way
to do this. I began thinking about taps and dies, not for metal, but for
wood. Here's a site with an example:
http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2000792/Woodthreading-Kits.aspx
The 1 1/2" set with 6 tpi for about $41 looks promising. I wonder if the
fineness of the thread pattern might be a problem?
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Lee on fri 22 jul 11
They really need to figure out what it cost to make them and then what
they need as profit. Isn't that what we all do?
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Pottery by John on fri 22 jul 11
Hey Gang,
After the seeing discussions on Clayart over the years about threaded
openings on pots, and just recently on another forum, I thought I would
research a bit. I contacted Bluebird Manufacturing, the original
manufacturer of the tap and die sets David Hendley shows on his Farm Pots
website and it turns out they have recently done some research on making a
tap and die set again. The original set contained 1-1/4", 2" and 2-3/4"
sizes. They are considering making the 1-1/4" set again and asked me what I
would be willing to pay for such a set. So, I am throwing some questions ou=
t
to Clayart:
1. Would a 1-1/4" tap and die set be something you would purchase at a fair
price?
2. Is there another size (2" or 2-3/4") that would make you more likely (or
less likely) to purchase a set?
3. What would you consider a fair price that you would be willing to pay to
purchase a tap and die set?
The manufacturer asked me what I would be willing to pay, and I thought I
might give them some encouragement to actually produce some sets if I could
also show that there is a fair amount of interest, and what the interested
parties would consider a fair price. I would like to get back to them
within a week, so if you are interested please respond promptly.
Thanks for your help,
John Lowes
Sandy Springs, Georgia
http://wynhillpottery.weebly.com/
William & Susan Schran User on fri 22 jul 11
On 7/22/11 9:53 AM, "Pottery by John" wrote:
>The original set contained 1-1/4", 2" and 2-3/4"
> sizes. They are considering making the 1-1/4" set again and asked me what=
I
> would be willing to pay for such a set. So, I am throwing some questions =
out
> to Clayart:
> 1. Would a 1-1/4" tap and die set be something you would purchase at a fa=
ir
> price?
Yes
> 2. Is there another size (2" or 2-3/4") that would make you more likely (=
or
> less likely) to purchase a set?
Also would like the 2 3/4"
> 3. What would you consider a fair price that you would be willing to pay =
to
> purchase a tap and die set?
$75 - $100 for set of 1 1/4" & 2 3/4"
> The manufacturer asked me what I would be willing to pay, and I thought I
> might give them some encouragement to actually produce some sets if I cou=
ld
> also show that there is a fair amount of interest, and what the intereste=
d
> parties would consider a fair price. I would like to get back to them
> within a week, so if you are interested please respond promptly.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
David Hendley on fri 22 jul 11
It sounds like Bluebird is using the same pricing technique I like
to use when someone asks about a custom order, "What would
you be willing to pay!?"
Now that separates the serious buyers from the tire-kickers.
Let me provide a little historical price information about the
Bluebird taps and dies.
When they were being manufactured and offered for sale in
the '70's, they were very expensive. A set of all three sizes with
a wooden box was as much as a professional potters wheel.
I'm sure this price discouraged all but the most enthusiastic
potters and thus not many sets were ever sold. I really,
really wanted a set, but as a poor college student, it was
beyond my budget.
(As an interesting commentary on the price of college as
well as the cost of these tools, the tap and die set cost more
than my tuition for a semester of college!)
I don't really know, but I imagine the 1970's tools were pretty
much hand made on a metal lathe. Perhaps a computerized
lathe could make them more efficiently now, but I wonder,
and Bluebird probably wonders as well, how much demand
there might be for this. I think it would be a pretty small
market once the price is set where it needs to be to cover
the costs.
I don't think people realize the massive size of the 2 3/4" set.
To save on materials and reduce weight, I guess, the tap is
hollow, yet this set weighs in at 2 1/4 pounds of aluminum.
Imagine the weight and cost of the metal blank that the tap
was turned from.
The 1 1/4" set is tiny in comparison, and I imagine it could
be made and sold for much less.
I didn't get my set until the 1990's, when Ric Swenson
generously offered to send me his set of three, since he never
used them. Of course, this exchange was all thanks to Clayart,
when I wrote in expressing my regret that I didn't buy a set
when they were available.
A few years ago another potter here in Texas had 2 sets for
sale, a used set for $400 and a new unused set for $600.
I know that he sold the $400 set, but I don't know about
the other one.
Through the years, on Clayart and in my personal experience,
no less than half a dozen people have told me that they
have access to a metal lathe and were going to make potters
taps and dies. No one has ever followed through. I think this
is because, after doing some research, they find out it would
be way more expensive than they'd imagined.
As far as use, I use the 1 1/4" set to make threaded stoppers
for bottles, and the 2 3/4" set to make threaded caps for
jugs or bottles. The 2" set is not so useful. It is too big to
make a solid stopper and the opening ends up being pretty
small if it is used to make a threaded cap. I make a few pots
with it from time to time just because it is there, but a potter who
wants to screw around could get along just fine without it.
By the way, like most everything that has to do with clay, you
don't just get a potters tap and die, do a little screwing as
you'd do to make a threaded rod with a metal die, and end
up with a threaded lid. Plan on messing up several dozen
lids, stoppers, and bottles before you get the hang of it.
David Hendley
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
http://www.thewahooligans.com
----- Original Message -----
> After the seeing discussions on Clayart over the years about threaded
> openings on pots, and just recently on another forum, I thought I would
> research a bit. I contacted Bluebird Manufacturing, the original
> manufacturer of the tap and die sets David Hendley shows on his Farm Pots
> website and it turns out they have recently done some research on making =
a
> tap and die set again. The original set contained 1-1/4", 2" and 2-3/4"
> sizes. They are considering making the 1-1/4" set again and asked me what
> I
> would be willing to pay for such a set. So, I am throwing some questions
> out
> to Clayart:
>
> 1. Would a 1-1/4" tap and die set be something you would purchase at a
> fair
> price?
> 2. Is there another size (2" or 2-3/4") that would make you more likely
> (or
> less likely) to purchase a set?
> 3. What would you consider a fair price that you would be willing to pay
> to
> purchase a tap and die set?
>
> The manufacturer asked me what I would be willing to pay, and I thought I
> might give them some encouragement to actually produce some sets if I
> could
> also show that there is a fair amount of interest, and what the intereste=
d
> parties would consider a fair price. I would like to get back to them
> within a week, so if you are interested please respond promptly.
Veena Raghavan on fri 22 jul 11
Hi John,
I would definitely be interested, but would prefer a larger size, such as
the 2-3/4" set. As for a fair price, I have no idea how much would be fair.
If you do convince them to produce the sets, I hope you will let us know wh=
at
the price would be.
Thanks so much for working on this. I love making screw top jars, but find
the process of making them the hard way just too tedious, although I have
done it!
All the best.
Veena
In a message dated 7/22/2011 12:42:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
potterybyjohn@BELLSOUTH.NET writes:
> I contacted Bluebird Manufacturing, the original
> manufacturer of the tap and die sets David Hendley shows on his Farm Pots
> website and it turns out they have recently done some research on making =
a
> tap and die set again. The original set contained 1-1/4", 2" and 2-3/4"
> sizes. They are considering making the 1-1/4" set again and asked me what
> I
> would be willing to pay for such a set. So, I am throwing some questions
> out
> to Clayart:
>
> 1. Would a 1-1/4" tap and die set be something you would purchase at a
> fair
> price?
> 2. Is there another size (2" or 2-3/4") that would make you more likely
> (or
> less likely) to purchase a set?
> 3. What would you consider a fair price that you would be willing to pay
> to
> purchase a tap and die set?
>
> The manufacturer asked me what I would be willing to pay, and I thought I
> might give them some encouragement to actually produce some sets if I
> could
> also show that there is a fair amount of interest, and what the intereste=
d
> parties would consider a fair price. I would like to get back to them
> within a week, so if you are interested please respond promptly.
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> John Lowes
VeenaRaghavan@cs.com
pdp1 on fri 22 jul 11
Can someone forward me images showing any of the previous examples of these
Taps-n-Dies which were well thought of?
Does anyone have an example I could borrow for a short time, to study?
I am sure I could make these in various sizes for a much saner cost...
I just never have seen any to learn more about what has been done, how it
was done, whether it was done right as far as basic design and function,
and, obviously, never stayed with even when done.
I assume these would be used during the far Leather Hard phase?
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike"
>A few days ago we were treated to an introduction to the 3D 'printing'
> machines, which work with a number of materials, including the hard
> resin shown in the videos. These tap and die sets sound like the perfect
> candidate for such a device, and would bring the manufacture price down
> as well.
>
> I'd love a set of these, but $600? Difficult to justify. In this day and
> age, with materials and production improvements, surely there must be a
> more cost effective path. A quick google of the above technology
> revealed multiple services for 3D printing. Need a photo to get a quote,
> though.
>
> Mike
> in Taku, Japan
>
> http://karatsupots.com
> http://karatsupots.blogspot.com
>
> Workshop in Taku 2012: The Simple Teabowl, May 12 - 18
>
> http://karatsupots.com/workshop2012/2012home.html
>
> http://workshopintaku2012.blogspot.com/
>
>
> (2011/07/23 6:01), David Hendley wrote:
>> It sounds like Bluebird is using the same pricing technique I like
>> to use when someone asks about a custom order, "What would
>> you be willing to pay!?"
>> Now that separates the serious buyers from the tire-kickers.
>>
>> Let me provide a little historical price information about the
>> Bluebird taps and dies.
>> When they were being manufactured and offered for sale in
>> the '70's, they were very expensive. A set of all three sizes with
>> a wooden box was as much as a professional potters wheel.
>> I'm sure this price discouraged all but the most enthusiastic
>> potters and thus not many sets were ever sold. I really,
>> really wanted a set, but as a poor college student, it was
>> beyond my budget.
>> (As an interesting commentary on the price of college as
>> well as the cost of these tools, the tap and die set cost more
>> than my tuition for a semester of college!)
>>
>> I don't really know, but I imagine the 1970's tools were pretty
>> much hand made on a metal lathe. Perhaps a computerized
>> lathe could make them more efficiently now, but I wonder,
>> and Bluebird probably wonders as well, how much demand
>> there might be for this. I think it would be a pretty small
>> market once the price is set where it needs to be to cover
>> the costs.
>>
>> I don't think people realize the massive size of the 2 3/4" set.
>> To save on materials and reduce weight, I guess, the tap is
>> hollow, yet this set weighs in at 2 1/4 pounds of aluminum.
>> Imagine the weight and cost of the metal blank that the tap
>> was turned from.
>> The 1 1/4" set is tiny in comparison, and I imagine it could
>> be made and sold for much less.
>>
>> I didn't get my set until the 1990's, when Ric Swenson
>> generously offered to send me his set of three, since he never
>> used them. Of course, this exchange was all thanks to Clayart,
>> when I wrote in expressing my regret that I didn't buy a set
>> when they were available.
>> A few years ago another potter here in Texas had 2 sets for
>> sale, a used set for $400 and a new unused set for $600.
>> I know that he sold the $400 set, but I don't know about
>> the other one.
>>
>> Through the years, on Clayart and in my personal experience,
>> no less than half a dozen people have told me that they
>> have access to a metal lathe and were going to make potters
>> taps and dies. No one has ever followed through. I think this
>> is because, after doing some research, they find out it would
>> be way more expensive than they'd imagined.
>>
>> As far as use, I use the 1 1/4" set to make threaded stoppers
>> for bottles, and the 2 3/4" set to make threaded caps for
>> jugs or bottles. The 2" set is not so useful. It is too big to
>> make a solid stopper and the opening ends up being pretty
>> small if it is used to make a threaded cap. I make a few pots
>> with it from time to time just because it is there, but a potter who
>> wants to screw around could get along just fine without it.
>> By the way, like most everything that has to do with clay, you
>> don't just get a potters tap and die, do a little screwing as
>> you'd do to make a threaded rod with a metal die, and end
>> up with a threaded lid. Plan on messing up several dozen
>> lids, stoppers, and bottles before you get the hang of it.
>>
>> David Hendley
>> david@farmpots.com
>> http://www.farmpots.com
>> http://www.thewahooligans.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> After the seeing discussions on Clayart over the years about threaded
>>> openings on pots, and just recently on another forum, I thought I would
>>> research a bit. I contacted Bluebird Manufacturing, the original
>>> manufacturer of the tap and die sets David Hendley shows on his Farm
>>> Pots
>>> website and it turns out they have recently done some research on
>>> making a
>>> tap and die set again. The original set contained 1-1/4", 2" and 2-3/4"
>>> sizes. They are considering making the 1-1/4" set again and asked me
>>> what
>>> I
>>> would be willing to pay for such a set. So, I am throwing some question=
s
>>> out
>>> to Clayart:
>>>
>>> 1. Would a 1-1/4" tap and die set be something you would purchase at a
>>> fair
>>> price?
>>> 2. Is there another size (2" or 2-3/4") that would make you more likely
>>> (or
>>> less likely) to purchase a set?
>>> 3. What would you consider a fair price that you would be willing to pa=
y
>>> to
>>> purchase a tap and die set?
>>>
>>> The manufacturer asked me what I would be willing to pay, and I
>>> thought I
>>> might give them some encouragement to actually produce some sets if I
>>> could
>>> also show that there is a fair amount of interest, and what the
>>> interested
>>> parties would consider a fair price. I would like to get back to them
>>> within a week, so if you are interested please respond promptly.
>>
Dan Pfeiffer on fri 22 jul 11
How many they will see depends on the price. If they set it way high only
someone who is sure it will make him some money will buy one. If they make
is cheap anyone who thinks it fun to try will buy one.
There once was a guy who sold a software compiler for $30 dollars when the
going price was $400. he needed to build a new factor to keep up with
demand. make tons of money because anyone who had any interest bought a
copy.
If there are smart and have any real interest in making them they need to
find out what the cost is to them and make a small profit. If under $100 I
would think about it. < $50 and I would just buy it on the chance I could
make it work, over $100 I can do without.
Dan & Laurel
www.pfeifferfirearts.com
>> They are considering making the 1-1/4" set again and asked me what I
would be willing to pay for such a set. So, I am throwing some questions ou=
t
to Clayart:>>
Liz Gowen 1 on sat 23 jul 11
Bill I bought and tried one of these sets years ago but found the thread
spacing too close. It doesn't leave enough room for shrinkage, and really
needs to make a deeper cut ....Liz Gowen
When I saw the original post asking if others might be interested in having
Bluebird make the tap & die sets again, I responded yes and with a fairly
low price. Then I began to wonder if there might be a more inexpensive way
to do this. I began thinking about taps and dies, not for metal, but for
wood. Here's a site with an example:
http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2000792/Woodthreading-Kits.aspx
The 1 1/2" set with 6 tpi for about $41 looks promising. I wonder if the
fineness of the thread pattern might be a problem?
Bill
--
Mike on sat 23 jul 11
A few days ago we were treated to an introduction to the 3D 'printing'
machines, which work with a number of materials, including the hard
resin shown in the videos. These tap and die sets sound like the perfect
candidate for such a device, and would bring the manufacture price down
as well.
I'd love a set of these, but $600? Difficult to justify. In this day and
age, with materials and production improvements, surely there must be a
more cost effective path. A quick google of the above technology
revealed multiple services for 3D printing. Need a photo to get a quote,
though.
Mike
in Taku, Japan
http://karatsupots.com
http://karatsupots.blogspot.com
Workshop in Taku 2012: The Simple Teabowl, May 12 - 18
http://karatsupots.com/workshop2012/2012home.html
http://workshopintaku2012.blogspot.com/
(2011/07/23 6:01), David Hendley wrote:
> It sounds like Bluebird is using the same pricing technique I like
> to use when someone asks about a custom order, "What would
> you be willing to pay!?"
> Now that separates the serious buyers from the tire-kickers.
>
> Let me provide a little historical price information about the
> Bluebird taps and dies.
> When they were being manufactured and offered for sale in
> the '70's, they were very expensive. A set of all three sizes with
> a wooden box was as much as a professional potters wheel.
> I'm sure this price discouraged all but the most enthusiastic
> potters and thus not many sets were ever sold. I really,
> really wanted a set, but as a poor college student, it was
> beyond my budget.
> (As an interesting commentary on the price of college as
> well as the cost of these tools, the tap and die set cost more
> than my tuition for a semester of college!)
>
> I don't really know, but I imagine the 1970's tools were pretty
> much hand made on a metal lathe. Perhaps a computerized
> lathe could make them more efficiently now, but I wonder,
> and Bluebird probably wonders as well, how much demand
> there might be for this. I think it would be a pretty small
> market once the price is set where it needs to be to cover
> the costs.
>
> I don't think people realize the massive size of the 2 3/4" set.
> To save on materials and reduce weight, I guess, the tap is
> hollow, yet this set weighs in at 2 1/4 pounds of aluminum.
> Imagine the weight and cost of the metal blank that the tap
> was turned from.
> The 1 1/4" set is tiny in comparison, and I imagine it could
> be made and sold for much less.
>
> I didn't get my set until the 1990's, when Ric Swenson
> generously offered to send me his set of three, since he never
> used them. Of course, this exchange was all thanks to Clayart,
> when I wrote in expressing my regret that I didn't buy a set
> when they were available.
> A few years ago another potter here in Texas had 2 sets for
> sale, a used set for $400 and a new unused set for $600.
> I know that he sold the $400 set, but I don't know about
> the other one.
>
> Through the years, on Clayart and in my personal experience,
> no less than half a dozen people have told me that they
> have access to a metal lathe and were going to make potters
> taps and dies. No one has ever followed through. I think this
> is because, after doing some research, they find out it would
> be way more expensive than they'd imagined.
>
> As far as use, I use the 1 1/4" set to make threaded stoppers
> for bottles, and the 2 3/4" set to make threaded caps for
> jugs or bottles. The 2" set is not so useful. It is too big to
> make a solid stopper and the opening ends up being pretty
> small if it is used to make a threaded cap. I make a few pots
> with it from time to time just because it is there, but a potter who
> wants to screw around could get along just fine without it.
> By the way, like most everything that has to do with clay, you
> don't just get a potters tap and die, do a little screwing as
> you'd do to make a threaded rod with a metal die, and end
> up with a threaded lid. Plan on messing up several dozen
> lids, stoppers, and bottles before you get the hang of it.
>
> David Hendley
> david@farmpots.com
> http://www.farmpots.com
> http://www.thewahooligans.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> After the seeing discussions on Clayart over the years about threaded
>> openings on pots, and just recently on another forum, I thought I would
>> research a bit. I contacted Bluebird Manufacturing, the original
>> manufacturer of the tap and die sets David Hendley shows on his Farm
>> Pots
>> website and it turns out they have recently done some research on
>> making a
>> tap and die set again. The original set contained 1-1/4", 2" and 2-3/4"
>> sizes. They are considering making the 1-1/4" set again and asked me
>> what
>> I
>> would be willing to pay for such a set. So, I am throwing some questions
>> out
>> to Clayart:
>>
>> 1. Would a 1-1/4" tap and die set be something you would purchase at a
>> fair
>> price?
>> 2. Is there another size (2" or 2-3/4") that would make you more likely
>> (or
>> less likely) to purchase a set?
>> 3. What would you consider a fair price that you would be willing to pay
>> to
>> purchase a tap and die set?
>>
>> The manufacturer asked me what I would be willing to pay, and I
>> thought I
>> might give them some encouragement to actually produce some sets if I
>> could
>> also show that there is a fair amount of interest, and what the
>> interested
>> parties would consider a fair price. I would like to get back to them
>> within a week, so if you are interested please respond promptly.
>
| |
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