William & Susan Schran User on sat 23 jul 11
For Phil and others with the tools and/or desire to make large taps & dies:
http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/schedule/27season_video.html
Watch show #2704
Also found this site with guy that makes wood screws/bolts for bench vises:
http://www.bigwoodvise.com/classic.html
On some wood workers forums I've found the suggestion that large screws/nut=
s
should have 2 threads per inch.
Who knows, perhaps we'll see Phil at NCECA with a tap & die set - and you
know it will be a damn fine tool!
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Randall Moody on sat 23 jul 11
I have seen these at a local hardware store here in Atlanta. I am not sure
of the cost.
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/search.aspx?find=3Dtap+and+die
--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
James Freeman on sat 23 jul 11
On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 11:41 AM, William & Susan Schran User <
wschran@cox.net> wrote:
For Phil and others with the tools and/or desire to make large taps & dies:
http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/schedule/27season_video.html
Watch show #2704
Also found this site with guy that makes wood screws/bolts for bench vises:
http://www.bigwoodvise.com/classic.html
On some wood workers forums I've found the suggestion that large screws/nut=
s
should have 2 threads per inch.
I asked David H about a year ago about the possibility of using the wood
threading kits on clay. He explained why they would not work, but I can't
recall the details. Perhaps he will comment.
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
William & Susan Schran User on sat 23 jul 11
On 7/23/11 12:40 PM, "James Freeman" wrote:
> I asked David H about a year ago about the possibility of using the wood
> threading kits on clay. He explained why they would not work, but I can'=
t
> recall the details. Perhaps he will comment.
James,
I would imagine to create a working threaded ceramic lid and container top
one might have to have the clay at a fairly stiff leatherhard so as not to
distort the forms. To cut the threads accurately would require a metal
cutting device as a wood device would not cut the stiff clay well.
I guess I should have explained that the video would show how to make the
thread maker and the other site showing the wood parts with threads was mor=
e
to illustrate the possible needed thread pattern of 2 threads per inch. Liz
Gowan posted that she had tried the tap & die sets for wood and the 6
threads per inch were too fine to work properly.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
James Freeman on sat 23 jul 11
On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 3:40 PM, William & Susan Schran User <
wschran@cox.net> wrote:
> I asked David H about a year ago about the possibility of using the wood
> threading kits on clay. He explained why they would not work, but I can'=
t
> recall the details. Perhaps he will comment.
James,
I would imagine to create a working threaded ceramic lid and container top
one might have to have the clay at a fairly stiff leatherhard so as not to
distort the forms. To cut the threads accurately would require a metal
cutting device as a wood device would not cut the stiff clay well.
Bill...
By "wood threading kit", I meant a kit for putting threads onto wood parts,
not a threading device made of wood. It was these "kits for threading wood=
"
that I thought you were referring to in your post, and are the kits I asked
David about when I was looking for a way to thread clay in the absence of a
Bluebird "kit for threading clay". (I cannot watch streaming video or
youtubes on my primitive rural internet connection, so did not watch the
clips you linked to. I am linked to the Internet via a hybrid system of
carrier pigeons and tin-cans-and-string)
I was, at the time, looking to thread clay merely for sculptural rather tha=
n
functional purposes. I ended up creating a simple tool that impressed a
series of V-shaped grooves around my clay components. Though the V-grooves
do not actually form threads, no one can really tell anyway from looking at
the part.
To answer the original poster's question, if the 1 1/4" kit were available
for $50 or less, I would probably buy one. Not saying it isn't worth much
more than that, but if the price were any higher I would just make do with
my fake threads.
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
pdp1 on sun 24 jul 11
Hi James, William, Lili, all,
Far as I recall, the Taps and Dies for cutting Thread in Wood, make a sort
of "V" shaped Thread.
For Clay, the Thread probably ought to be more of cross between an Acme and
a Whitworth type, or be a
heavily truncated acute "V" base.
Wood Threading Dies traditionally relied on a single very sharp "V" shaped
Cutter, a sort of Captive Chisel, where the waste exits via a small diamete=
r
opening an inch or more long through the Wooden Die Body, and, would likely
clog instantly with Clay, causing the Cuts still being attempted to be
merely mushing the Clay and destroying the possibility of a Thread, instead
of cutting it..
Steel, Wood, Clay, all have very different characteristics as far as how
Threads would be Cut, and, how those Threads ought to be shaped to hold up
well and behave well in use.
Phil
Lv
Bill Merrill on mon 25 jul 11
At one time there was a company that made a very large set of tap and
dies for clay. I own one but never really used it much. It was a large
thread and you could make screw on cap lids with it. I will see if it
has any manufacturing info stamped on it. If so I will send you the
info.
Bill Merrill
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of pdp1
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 8:33 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Tap & die stuff: Making wood screws
Hi James, William, Lili, all,
Far as I recall, the Taps and Dies for cutting Thread in Wood, make a
sort of "V" shaped Thread.
For Clay, the Thread probably ought to be more of cross between an Acme
and a Whitworth type, or be a heavily truncated acute "V" base.
Wood Threading Dies traditionally relied on a single very sharp "V"
shaped Cutter, a sort of Captive Chisel, where the waste exits via a
small diameter opening an inch or more long through the Wooden Die Body,
and, would likely clog instantly with Clay, causing the Cuts still being
attempted to be merely mushing the Clay and destroying the possibility
of a Thread, instead of cutting it..
Steel, Wood, Clay, all have very different characteristics as far as how
Threads would be Cut, and, how those Threads ought to be shaped to hold
up well and behave well in use.
Phil
Lv
Carl Cravens on mon 25 jul 11
And here we start to see the source of my comment about this on another for=
um. :)
As a one-time machinist and jig-builder in the aircraft industry (albeit of=
minor skill before I left the trade), I can stand up for the machinist her=
e and say, the Bluebird tap and die set aren't stoneware mugs, they're fine=
porcelain vases with intricate brushwork. They are the experienced machin=
ist's *art*.
Take everything this list has ever said about educating the potential potte=
ry buyer, how they need to understand the real value of pottery and everyth=
ing that stands behind that $50 mug or $5000 vase, and substitute "machine =
tooling" for "potter's art" and "pottery tap and die" for "mug or vase", an=
d you have an inkling of why these things cost hundreds of dollars.
Q: "$600!? How long did it take you to make this tap and die?"
A: "Thirty years."
If that sounds familiar, then I humbly ask that we think twice before assum=
ing the simplicity and ease of the machinist's craft and art. I know it's =
not easy to see that in our Wal-Mart world, where it's very easy to underes=
timate how hard it is to make an item of value, whether it be a tool, art o=
r functional item.
Yes, you could lower the cost quite a bit, once you've worked out the proto=
types, if you could find a large enough market and apply techniques of mass=
-production. The same could be said of your pottery, couldn't it?
On 07/24/2011 10:33 PM, pdp1 wrote:
> Wood Threading Dies traditionally relied on a single very sharp "V" shape=
d
> Cutter, a sort of Captive Chisel, where the waste exits via a small diame=
ter
> opening an inch or more long through the Wooden Die Body, and, would like=
ly
> clog instantly with Clay, causing the Cuts still being attempted to be
> merely mushing the Clay and destroying the possibility of a Thread, inste=
ad
> of cutting it..
--
Carl D Cravens (raven@phoenyx.net)
The modems canno' stand the strain, captain!
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