George Chechopoulos on mon 5 sep 11
If anyone out there has a proven refractory mix formula for repairing K24 o=
r
K26 soft kiln bricks it would be appreciated if you would post it on this
site.
Thanks,
George J. Chechopoulos
Marrowstone Pottery
292 Merry Road, Box 193
Nordland, WA 98358
Website: www.marrowstonepottery.com
Youtube: www.youtube.com/marrowstonepots
Email: marrowstonepots@waypoint.com
Phone: 360-379-5169
John Britt on tue 6 sep 11
George,
Aren't you the same guy who won't share any of your recipes? And now you =
=3D
want=3D20
a recipe? Hummnn?
Since I have a sworn oath to help all who search (for recipes), and can =
=3D
turn no=3D20
one down, here is my solution.
I use seraset (any high temp mortar) and wet the bricks and then apply it=
=3D
to both=3D20
sides and push them together. Then you need to fire the brick. If you jus=
=3D
t start=3D20
using it, say in the door only part gets heated. I usually sub it in the=
=3D
bag wall for=3D20
one firing.
Looking forward to a reciprocal relationship with recipe sharing some day=
=3D
.=3D20=3D20
Peace out!
johnbrittpottery.com
George Chechopoulos on wed 7 sep 11
On Wednesday, September 07, 2011 1:26 PM June wrote:
George,
John has always shared recipes even all of those in his book. No one has to
buy Johns book just for the recipes - they've always been offered freely.
Saying that, his book has more to offer than just recipes and believe me, n=
o
one is getting rich selling their books on ceramics - just ask John.
Hey June and everyone,
I realize that John was just joking around with me and I was just doing the
same with him. It's all in fun. Don't get so serious about it. John know=
s
how to defend himself without any additional help.
George J. Chechopoulos
Marrowstone Pottery
292 Merry Road, Box 193
Nordland, WA 98358
Website: www.marrowstonepottery.com
Youtube: www.youtube.com/marrowstonepots
Email: marrowstonepots@waypoint.com
Phone: 360-379-5169
-----Original Message-----
From: June [mailto:beinjoy@frontier.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 1:26 PM
To: George Chechopoulos
Subject: Re: Refractory mix for K24 or K26 Bricks
George,
John has always shared recipes even all of those in his book. No one has to
buy Johns book just for the recipes - they've always been offered freely.
Saying that, his book has more to offer than just recipes and believe me, n=
o
one is getting rich selling their books on ceramics - just ask John.
Warm regards,
June
http://wwww.shambhalapottery.blogspot.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sodasaltfiring/
http://www.shambhalapottery.com
----- Original Message -----
From: George Chechopoulos
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 19:47:03 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: Refractory mix for K24 or K26 Bricks
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 5:46 AM John Britt wrote in part:
Aren't you the same guy who won't share any of your recipes? And now you
want
a recipe? Hummnn?
Since I have a sworn oath to help all who search (for recipes), and can
turn no
one down, here is my solution.
I use seraset____.
Hi John,
Hey, aren't you the guy that wrote that book on cone 10 glazes? I have a
copy of that book on my shelf and use it all the time as my most reliable
source for cone 10 glazes. It is the most reliable source for cone 10 glaz=
e
formulas that I have seen thus far. Based on its content I would say that
you had to work on that book for a long time, maybe a year or more, before
publishing. I also recall that I had to pay money for that great book of
yours before I could use all those great formulas. So, when I'm finally
ready to publish my book on Flameware clay bodies and glazes I'll make sure
that you are the first one that I contact for a sale so I can share all of
my formulas with you. We are all Capitalists, John.
Thanks for the advice on Ceraset. I'm familiar with that product but I hav=
e
been told that it has too high of a shrinkage rate for soft brick repair.
By the way, Ceraset is a registered trademark product, not a formula. The
formula is proprietary. Sort of like "Furnoware".
I have a couple of formulas for castable refractory mixes but they form a
crack at the interface between the brick and refractory mix once heated.
Not very good as a patch for soft brick.
Another proprietary product out there that may work better is "Green Patch"
since it has more grog in it and a lower shrinkage rate. Spraying on
colloidal silica prior to application may help with the binding process.
I'll probably go that route first and see what happens.
Peace,
George J. Chechopoulos
Marrowstone Pottery
292 Merry Road, Box 193
Nordland, WA 98358
Website: www.marrowstonepottery.com
Youtube: www.youtube.com/marrowstonepots
Email: marrowstonepots@waypoint.com
Phone: 360-379-5169
George Chechopoulos on wed 7 sep 11
On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 5:46 AM John Britt wrote in part:
Aren't you the same guy who won't share any of your recipes? And now you
want
a recipe? Hummnn?
Since I have a sworn oath to help all who search (for recipes), and can
turn no
one down, here is my solution.
I use seraset____.
Hi John,
Hey, aren't you the guy that wrote that book on cone 10 glazes? I have a
copy of that book on my shelf and use it all the time as my most reliable
source for cone 10 glazes. It is the most reliable source for cone 10 glaz=
e
formulas that I have seen thus far. Based on its content I would say that
you had to work on that book for a long time, maybe a year or more, before
publishing. I also recall that I had to pay money for that great book of
yours before I could use all those great formulas. So, when I'm finally
ready to publish my book on Flameware clay bodies and glazes I'll make sure
that you are the first one that I contact for a sale so I can share all of
my formulas with you. We are all Capitalists, John.
Thanks for the advice on Ceraset. I'm familiar with that product but I hav=
e
been told that it has too high of a shrinkage rate for soft brick repair.
By the way, Ceraset is a registered trademark product, not a formula. The
formula is proprietary. Sort of like "Furnoware".
I have a couple of formulas for castable refractory mixes but they form a
crack at the interface between the brick and refractory mix once heated.
Not very good as a patch for soft brick.
Another proprietary product out there that may work better is "Green Patch"
since it has more grog in it and a lower shrinkage rate. Spraying on
colloidal silica prior to application may help with the binding process.
I'll probably go that route first and see what happens.
Peace,
George J. Chechopoulos
Marrowstone Pottery
292 Merry Road, Box 193
Nordland, WA 98358
Website: www.marrowstonepottery.com
Youtube: www.youtube.com/marrowstonepots
Email: marrowstonepots@waypoint.com
Phone: 360-379-5169
John Britt on wed 7 sep 11
Hey George,
Hey, you gotta to admit that there is some irony there. I know you don't
want to but.......come on. Just a bit?
Since you have a bit of spirit in you, I will post a recipe.... not a
formula .....for brick mortar repair on my blog:
http://ncclayclub.blogspot.com/2011/09/st-johns-repair-cement-cone-04-10.ht=
ml
I have never use it and from what I can see he threw in everything except
the kitchen sink as a flux and did the same with the clays. Probably to
generalize the materials thus making it work on most bricks...but I don't
know.
You are probably right on the colloidal silica and it would be nice if you
reported back on clayart if you find anything that works as many could
benefit from it. (That is the failed socialist in me clinging to life.)
Also you could just Google versions of IFB repair, soft fire brick repair,
etc.
Here are some links:
Sheffield has these L&L products:
http://www.sheffield-pottery.com/KILN-BRICK-REPAIR-KIT-p/lmgbkit00.htm
ITC 100 and 200:
http://www.anvilfire.com/sales/pages/ITC_index_100.htm
Euclids: with Orton repair cement:
http://www.euclids.com/kilnbuild&repair.htm
Pyroform EZ fill:
http://www.rexmaterials.com/activek/content.asp?s=3D&catid=3D30
You could also call Resco and ask their opinion:
http://www.rescoproducts.com/productsearch.asp
BNZ:
http://www.bnzmaterials.com/misc_materials.html
Another thought is to drill the ends of the brick with two holes like if yo=
u
were fixing a piece of wood. Then fill that with the mortar and then put in
a broken element wire to act as a dowel. Might work. The down side would b=
e
taking out more brick and weakening it. But may be worth a try.
Hope that helps. But if you could report back it would be great!
John Britt Pottery
- Show quoted text -
--
Regards,
John
johnbrittpottery@gmail.com
http://ncclayclub.blogspot.com
www.johnbrittpottery.com
On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 3:47 PM, George Chechopoulos <
marrowstonepots@waypoint.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 06, 2011 5:46 AM John Britt wrote in part:
>
> Aren't you the same guy who won't share any of your recipes? And now you
> want
> a recipe? Hummnn?
>
> Since I have a sworn oath to help all who search (for recipes), and can
> turn no
> one down, here is my solution.
>
> I use seraset____.
>
>
> Hi John,
>
> Hey, aren't you the guy that wrote that book on cone 10 glazes? I have a
> copy of that book on my shelf and use it all the time as my most reliable
> source for cone 10 glazes. It is the most reliable source for cone 10
> glaze
> formulas that I have seen thus far. Based on its content I would say tha=
t
> you had to work on that book for a long time, maybe a year or more, befor=
e
> publishing. I also recall that I had to pay money for that great book of
> yours before I could use all those great formulas. So, when I'm finally
> ready to publish my book on Flameware clay bodies and glazes I'll make su=
re
> that you are the first one that I contact for a sale so I can share all o=
f
> my formulas with you. We are all Capitalists, John.
>
> Thanks for the advice on Ceraset. I'm familiar with that product but I
> have
> been told that it has too high of a shrinkage rate for soft brick repair.
> By the way, Ceraset is a registered trademark product, not a formula. Th=
e
> formula is proprietary. Sort of like "Furnoware".
>
> I have a couple of formulas for castable refractory mixes but they form a
> crack at the interface between the brick and refractory mix once heated.
> Not very good as a patch for soft brick.
>
> Another proprietary product out there that may work better is "Green Patc=
h"
> since it has more grog in it and a lower shrinkage rate. Spraying on
> colloidal silica prior to application may help with the binding process.
> I'll probably go that route first and see what happens.
>
> Peace,
>
> George J. Chechopoulos
> Marrowstone Pottery
> 292 Merry Road, Box 193
> Nordland, WA 98358
> Website: www.marrowstonepottery.com
> Youtube: www.youtube.com/marrowstonepots
> Email: marrowstonepots@waypoint.com
> Phone: 360-379-5169
>
>
>
>
--
Regards,
John
johnbrittpottery@gmail.com
http://ncclayclub.blogspot.com
www.johnbrittpottery.com
David Hendley on thu 8 sep 11
I've tried it with nichrome wire and it works.
I had the wire sitting around, left over from a kiln built in the 1970's. I
don't
know if it would be worth buying wire for the purpose.
I also have no problem cementing broken bricks back together with a
sloppy, approximate mixture of equal parts portland cement, kaolin,
and alumina hydrate.
These are bricks that are stacked and unstacked in the door and go to
cone 11 in a wood kiln, a pretty rigorous test.
David Hendley
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
http://www.thewahooligans.com
----- Original Message -----
George,
I may try the element wire since I imagine it to be a good idea. Probably
too
much work to save a $2.00 brick but the idea may be worth it.
John Britt Pottery
Michael Wendt on thu 8 sep 11
George,
Raw Kyanite is used in the fire brick industry to offset
fired shrinkage since it undergoes a one time permanent
expansion upon firing.
I would start there.
Prepare mortars with various amounts of Kyanite and make
the standard 10 cm shrinkage test bars to find which
amount of Kyanite yields a mortar that either does not
shrink at all or expands slightly to "key" into cracks in
the
brick.
Once this mix is found, add fine sawdust to it until a fired
sample has the same density as the brick you are repairing
and test it again before use.
I really like that you are interested in being self reliant
rather than simply buying sairset or greenpatch as this
leads to a kind of freedom early potters had when there were
no pottery supply stores and they had to do it all
themselves
with whatever materials were at hand
Please share your results with at least the clayart group.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Lewiston, Idaho
John Britt on thu 8 sep 11
I really appreciate these two posts, one by June and one by George. (By =
=3D
George-=3D20
get it?)
I appreciate June defending me and George understanding that poking is no=
=3D
t=3D20
vindictive hateful speech. It seems that you can't say anything on clayar=
=3D
t=3D20
anymore without offending someone. Everyone is so territorialized and pr=
=3D
otective=3D20
of something or nothing of substance.=3D20
Thanks also to Steve Mills for his solution (get it?) to the brick patch.=
=3D
Posted=3D20
that on the blog.
And don't be a hater George,
Peace out,
John Britt Pottery=3D20
George Chechopoulos on thu 8 sep 11
Many thanks to John Britt and Steve Mills for all of the information on the
above subject. It will probably take me a while to go thru it all and do
the testing but I will report back on the results after a couple of firings=
.
George J. Chechopoulos
Marrowstone Pottery
292 Merry Road, Box 193
Nordland, WA 98358
Website: www.marrowstonepottery.com
Youtube: www.youtube.com/marrowstonepots
Email: marrowstonepots@waypoint.com
Phone: 360-379-5169
John Britt on thu 8 sep 11
George,
I may try the element wire since I imagine it to be a good idea. Probabl=
=3D
y too=3D20
much work to save a $2.00 brick but the idea may be worth it.
John Britt Pottery
Steve Mills on thu 8 sep 11
I usually repair damaged brick with Sodium Silicate 75TW (the liquid variet=
y=3D
) and a high proportion of brick dust (same type as the subject for repair)=
,=3D
with perhaps a little Kaolin to help the SS bind it together. The balance =
o=3D
f the components is crucial or you get (as you know) too much shrinkage.=3D=
20
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my Ipod touch
On 7 Sep 2011, at 20:47, George Chechopoulos =
w=3D
rote:
> I have a couple of formulas for cast able refractory mixes but they form =
a=3D
> crack at the interface between the brick and refractory mix once heated.
> Not very good as a patch for soft brick.
>=3D20
> Another proprietary product out there that may work better is "Green Patc=
h=3D
"
> since it has more grog in it and a lower shrinkage rate. Spraying on
> colloidal silica prior to application may help with the binding process.
> I'll probably go that route first and see what happens.
>=3D20
> Peace,
>=3D20
> George J. Chechopoulos
> Marrowstone Pottery
> 292 Merry Road, Box 193
> Nordland, WA 98358
> Website: www.marrowstonepottery.com
> Youtube: www.youtube.com/marrowstonepots
> Email: marrowstonepots@waypoint.com
> Phone: 360-379-5169
George Chechopoulos on fri 9 sep 11
On Thu, 8 Sep 2011 Michael Wendt wrote:
George,
Raw Kyanite is used in the fire brick industry to offset
fired shrinkage_____.
Michael,
Thank you for your post on Kyanite. That was a mineral that I was going to
do a little research into but just haven't gotten around to testing much.
Your suggestion makes a lot of sense. Based on my limited research of the
mineral it appear that the best mesh size to run the experiments with will
be 325 mesh since that size yields the lowest volume expansion because the
fines take up the void space. This mineral like Spodumene goes through an
irreversible expansion upon firing (cone 10 and above) and the courser the
grind the more the expansion. It also converts to Mullite at the high fire
temperature which contributes to high thermal shock resistance. I will
definitely report back on my test results.
Thanks,
George J. Chechopoulos
Marrowstone Pottery
292 Merry Road, Box 193
Nordland, WA 98358
Website: www.marrowstonepottery.com
Youtube: www.youtube.com/marrowstonepots
Email: marrowstonepots@waypoint.com
Phone: 360-379-5169
ivor and olive lewis on sat 10 sep 11
I was under the impression that the advantage of Kyanite was the absence of
Phase Changes that are so destructive when Quartz, Tridymite or Cristobalit=
e
are in an environment where there are fluctuations of temperature.
Ganister, a close-grained hard siliceous stone which was mined at Totley on
the border of the Peak District . This was made into bricks to line Gas
retorts making of Coal Gas and Metallurgical grade Coke, These structures
were never allowed to cool below seven hundred degrees Celsius. During the
"Depression" it was the custom to leave alternate retorts sealed and only
process coal in the other units.
Regards,
Ivor Lewis,
REDHILL,
South Australia
.
George Chechopoulos on sun 11 sep 11
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 ivor lewis wrote in part:
I was under the impression that the advantage of Kyanite was the absence of
Phase Changes that are so destructive when Quartz, Tridymite or Cristobalit=
e
are in an environment where there are fluctuations of temperature.
Ivor,
That is a very interesting piece of information to me, Ivor. I haven't bee=
n
able to find anything related to the absence of phase change for Kyanite.
This mineral might make a good addition to a Flameware clay body but the
fact still remains that it expands irreversibly upon heating (like
Spodumene) which is not a good quality for a Flameware clay body. However,
the finer the mesh size the less expansion. There is more to Flameware tha=
n
just having a compatible glaze and clay body. The clay body and glaze
matrix have to be tight enough to resist cooking oils from penetrating the
surface. Not an easy problem to solve. I'll have to see if I can put
together a clay body with this mineral and run a test sample through my
Dilatometer and test for vitrification also. It would certainly be a cost
improvement over Spodumene and Petalite.
One problem that I am having is finding a source for 325 mesh Kyanite. I
can find 100 mesh and possibly 200 mesh but nothing finer. Anyone have any
suggestions? I don't have a ball mill yet and that would just add more tim=
e
to the process which would not be cost effective.
George J. Chechopoulos
Marrowstone Pottery
292 Merry Road, Box 193
Nordland, WA 98358
Website: www.marrowstonepottery.com
Youtube: www.youtube.com/marrowstonepots
Email: marrowstonepots@waypoint.com
Phone: 360-379-5169
ivor and olive lewis on tue 13 sep 11
Dear George Chechopoulos
At temperatures above 1100 =B0C kyanite decomposes into mullite and vitreou=
s
silica via the following reaction: 3(Al2O3=B7SiO2) ? 3Al2O3=B72SiO2 + SiO2.=
This
transformation results in an expansion.
Which suggests that this decomposition of Kyanite is a once off and will
not be repeated in subsequent reheating. You might search for Sillimanite
This is another of the refractory Alumino Silicates that seems to be free
from phase changes that are so destructive of batch recipes containing
Quartz.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis,
REDHILL,
South Australia
George Chechopoulos on wed 14 sep 11
On Thu, 8 Sep 2011 David Hendley wrote in part:
I also have no problem cementing broken bricks back together with a
sloppy, approximate mixture of equal parts portland cement, kaolin,
and alumina hydrate.
David,
That sounds like an easy enough formula and it sounds very effective based
on your experience with its use. I assume you mean "equal parts" by volume
and not weight? Like using a small yogurt container. Do you wet the brick=
s
a bit with a spray bottle before sticking them together with that mixture?
George J. Chechopoulos
Marrowstone Pottery
292 Merry Road, Box 193
Nordland, WA 98358
Website: www.marrowstonepottery.com
Youtube: www.youtube.com/marrowstonepots
Email: marrowstonepots@waypoint.com
Phone: 360-379-5169
George Chechopoulos on wed 14 sep 11
Hi Ivor,
Yes, I knew that Kyanite converts to Mullite when high fired but I didn't
know the temperature. I was actually going to experiment with Mullite
rather than Kyanite in order to avoid the expansion problem. Based on my
understanding of the mineral, when Kyanite goes through that one time
irreversible expansion it will produce a porous clay body which is not
reversible and is obviously something to be avoided. However, if I use
Mullite there is no expansion. According to the Kyanite Mining Corp. in
Virginia over here Kyanite begins the Mullitization process at about 1250C
and instantaneously completes the process at 1450C. So, in order to avoid
the problem why not just use Mullite which I can purchase from my local Cla=
y
Art supplier? Haven't looked into Sillimanite yet but it apparently
converts to Mullite at a much higher temperature than Kyanite.
George J. Chechopoulos
Marrowstone Pottery
292 Merry Road, Box 193
Nordland, WA 98358
Website: www.marrowstonepottery.com
Youtube: www.youtube.com/marrowstonepots
Email: marrowstonepots@waypoint.com
Phone: 360-379-5169
ivor and olive lewis on thu 15 sep 11
Dear George Chechopoulos,
If Mullite is readily available it would seem to be an advantage to use it.
Relating to your suggestion that fired clay derived from Kyanite is porous
suggests that gas is evolved during decomposition to Mullite and Vitreous
Silicon dioxide. The suggested reaction does not support this view.
I would suggest that a comparison of the lattice parameters of the crystal
structures might better account for the dimensional changes.
Interesting topic.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis,
REDHILL,
South Australia
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