Rimas VisGirda on thu 8 sep 11
Snail wrote:
I have observed that among the British, however, the word 'pottery'
can mean anything made of clay even if it's not a pot, and is also
a synonym for clay itself, as in, "That sculpture is made of pottery'.
Seriously, they act like they invented the language or something!
Snail, Nice!
During the mid-70's, my wife and I took the QEII to England which took 5 da=
ys. We sat at a group seating for meals, at the first such meal we went aro=
und the table and introduced ourselves; I said that I taught ceramics -no i=
nterest generated... Over the next few days we became friends with a nice c=
ouple from England and it came out that I taught at a small Midwestern univ=
ersity. I still remember their surprise and the the comment "Oh! You are a =
PROFESSOR!" and all of a sudden I was somehow much more important than a "t=
eacher of ceramics..."
Semantics can be very interesting at times. -Rimas
James Freeman on thu 8 sep 11
On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Rimas VisGirda wrote:
I said that I taught ceramics -no interest generated... Over the next few
days we became friends with a nice couple from England and it came out that
I taught at a small Midwestern university. I still remember their surprise
and the the comment "Oh! You are a PROFESSOR!" and all of a sudden I was
somehow much more important than a "teacher of ceramics..." Semantics can
be very interesting at times
Rimas...
Semantics probably had less to do with it than imprimatur. Your university
position automatically made you "Someone", the university having vetted you
and declared you worthy.
I experienced exactly the opposite many years ago. I was in a three person
show at a gallery in Ohio. A woman approached me with an enthusiastic smil=
e
and just raved about one of my pieces; "It's so powerful, so moving, very
strong form, so this, so that..." (it was indeed a really cool piece!). Sh=
e
then asked me where I studied. When I replied that I did not have an MFA,
she looked a bit crestfallen. She then asked whose studios I worked out
of. When I replied that I made all of the work for the show in my basement
(I did not yet have my freestanding studio), she became quite ashen, replie=
d
with a simple "Oh", and excused herself. Apparently my lack of credentials=
,
with their implicit Nihil Obstat, instantly transformed a very strong work
into something one might scrape from one's shoe.
The piece did sell, by the way, to someone obviously far less discerning. =
I
went home and researched mail order degrees. Since it is obviously the
piece of paper that matters, why not just buy one? Actually found both an
MFA and a PhD in Art available for purchase! Dr. Freeman. I like the soun=
d
of that!
All the best.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
marci Boskie's Mama =3D^..^=3D on fri 9 sep 11
> James Freeman wrote:
>I experienced exactly the opposite many years ago. I was in a three perso=
n
>show at a gallery in Ohio. A woman approached me with an enthusiastic smi=
le
>and just raved about one of my pieces; ( snip ) When I replied
>that I made all of the work for the show in my basement
>(I did not yet have my freestanding studio), she became quite ashen, repli=
ed
>with a simple "Oh", and excused herself. Apparently my lack of credential=
s,
>with their implicit Nihil Obstat, instantly transformed a very strong work
>into something one might scrape from one's shoe.
It seems that there are people out there who need to have
assurances of taste. Hire a decorator to do your house, buy designer
clothing , the latest gadgets, etc because it has approval
....Let the chi-chi tell you if something is art ...
Apparently some people need a pedigree before they can be
comfortable that it's OK to like something. Others of us dont give a
crap what other people think . We likes what we likes and that 's that !
marci the outre un-pedigreed chinapainter
Kathy Forer on fri 9 sep 11
On Sep 9, 2011, at 11:44 AM, marci Boskie's Mama =3D3D^..^=3D3D wrote:
>> James Freeman wrote:
>> I experienced exactly the opposite many years ago. I was in a three =3D
person
>> show at a gallery in Ohio. A woman approached me with an =3D
enthusiastic smile
>> and just raved about one of my pieces; ( snip ) When I replied
>> that I made all of the work for the show in my basement
>> (I did not yet have my freestanding studio), she became quite ashen, =3D
replied
>> with a simple "Oh", and excused herself. Apparently my lack of =3D
credentials,
>> with their implicit Nihil Obstat, instantly transformed a very strong =
=3D
work
>> into something one might scrape from one's shoe.
>=3D20
> It seems that there are people out there who need to have
> assurances of taste. Hire a decorator to do your house, buy designer
> clothing , the latest gadgets, etc because it has approval
> ....Let the chi-chi tell you if something is art ...
> Apparently some people need a pedigree before they can be
> comfortable that it's OK to like something. Others of us dont give a
> crap what other people think . We likes what we likes and that 's =3D
that !
> marci the outre un-pedigreed chinapainter
Credentials and approval in non-academic fields are really about =3D
presentation.=3D20
Saying you work out of a dark, damp basement studio though you'd really =3D
love a light-filled atelier doesn't sound very appealing. A "fully =3D
equipped studio designed and built to your specifications and needs, =3D
with no travel time," is a much more attractive proposition. So too is =3D
enthusiasm and commitment to whatever your actual study heritage is. The =
=3D
pedigree is self-generating. You design your own imprimatur.
It's a little like saying "it's art because I say it's so," or even "do =3D
as I say, not as I do." There's no moral need to set an example or have =3D
a certain kind of approval--our work is the artifact, that's all that's =3D
needed. Our job is to advocate for ourselves and our work, not denigrate =
=3D
our lack of perfect studio, situation or background.
Kathy Forer
noMFA, Claypit Creek, Forever Ink, Jersey Mac, kathyforer.com=3D
Lee on sat 10 sep 11
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Kathy Forer wrote:
>kind of approval--our work is the artifact, that's all that's needed. Our =
=3D
job is >to advocate for ourselves and our work, not denigrate our lack of p=
=3D
erfect >studio, situation or background.
When you are confident in your work, you don't worry about what
others say. If you ever enter competitions, you learn that it is
important not to wear your heart on your sleeve.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
David Woof on mon 12 sep 11
Hi James=3D2C
respectfully=3D2C it was not your lack of credentials: she was not concerne=
d =3D
with your credentials=3D2C or had assumed from the work she liked that your=
c=3D
redentials were as she expected.
At that stage in your development (as a studio potter?) it was most likely =
=3D
your display of apologetic insecurity that caused her dismay and turned her=
=3D
off.=3D20
As I'm sure you know=3D2C and I write also for those just now starting out =
as=3D
you were then=3D3B When you're "the man/woman of the hour" you have to act=
t=3D
he smiling=3D2C relaxed=3D2C confident part no matter what is going on in y=
our =3D
personal life=3D2C and the fact that you are a relative beginner who may ha=
ve=3D
made some of your work sitting at a folding TV table while on the toilet..=
=3D
....
In fact some really great work has been made in cramped hallways=3D2C kitch=
en=3D
s=3D2C closets=3D2C back porches=3D2C garages etc.=3D20
It is best to let folks make up their own story about us from their own wel=
=3D
l of expectations=3D2C tastes=3D2C and desires.=3D20
If they like our work=3D3B their story about us is always much better than =
th=3D
e truth we would tell=3D2C or the credential bragging we could do.
Don't crush them.=3D20
Be Well=3D2C Have good things=3D2C and remember: waving credentials is larg=
ely =3D
for the insecure. One doesn't see much of that on Clayart.
David Woof
_______________________________________________________=3D20
Re: ceramics=3D2C pottery and the UK
James Freeman wrote:
I experienced exactly the opposite many years ago. I was in a three person
show at a gallery in Ohio. A woman approached me with an enthusiastic smile
and just raved about one of my pieces=3D3B ( snip ) When I replied
that I made all of the work for the show in my basement
(I did not yet have my freestanding studio)=3D2C she became quite ashen=3D2=
C re=3D
plied
with a simple "Oh"=3D2C and excused herself. Apparently my lack of credenti=
al=3D
s=3D2C
with their implicit Nihil Obstat=3D2C instantly transformed a very strong w=
or=3D
k
into something one might scrape from one's shoe.
=3D
Dannon Rhudy on mon 12 sep 11
David said:
.....In fact some really great work has been made in cramped hallways,
kitchens, closets, back porches, garages etc...........
Indeed, quite true. Lucie Rie worked in a TINY space to produce her
wares, and even after she became well known, and then famous - she
stayed in the same tiny space. Workshop/studio down, apartment up,
in a mews in London. A few hundred square feet, all told.
Worked out ok.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
James Freeman on mon 12 sep 11
Hi, David...
Sage advice, except there are a number of things you assumed, which in my
case were not the case at all.
I was not just starting out. Not even close. I did not act insecure nor
apologetic (not sure why you would assume that). I was my usual
effervescent, confident self. I answered her questions quite forthrightly.
You see, I had always been far more impressed with self-taught people than
with those of equal accomplishment who had received extensive training, and
just assumed that others felt the same way. I was quite proud of the fact
that I produced what I did on my own, with little training and no guidance,
and believed that to be a plus, not a minus. I was actually quite shocked
at her reaction, at her dismissal of the non-academic, and felt then, as
now, that she was a pretentious poseur. Also, she was, absolutely,
concerned with my credentials, and not sure upon what you base your contrar=
y
assertion. Had you been there, it would have been patently obvoius to you
too.
Take care.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 4:08 AM, David Woof wrote:
> Hi James,
>
> respectfully, it was not your lack of credentials: she was not concerned
> with your credentials, or had assumed from the work she liked that your
> credentials were as she expected.
>
> At that stage in your development (as a studio potter?) it was most likel=
y
> your display of apologetic insecurity that caused her dismay and turned h=
er
> off.
>
> As I'm sure you know, and I write also for those just now starting out as
> you were then; When you're "the man/woman of the hour" you have to act th=
e
> smiling, relaxed, confident part no matter what is going on in your perso=
nal
> life, and the fact that you are a relative beginner who may have made som=
e
> of your work sitting at a folding TV table while on the toilet......
>
> In fact some really great work has been made in cramped hallways, kitchen=
s,
> closets, back porches, garages etc.
>
> It is best to let folks make up their own story about us from their own
> well of expectations, tastes, and desires.
>
> If they like our work; their story about us is always much better than th=
e
> truth we would tell, or the credential bragging we could do.
>
> Don't crush them.
>
> Be Well, Have good things, and remember: waving credentials is largely fo=
r
> the insecure. One doesn't see much of that on Clayart.
>
> David Woof
> _______________________________________________________
> Re: ceramics, pottery and the UK
>
> James Freeman wrote:
> I experienced exactly the opposite many years ago. I was in a three perso=
n
> show at a gallery in Ohio. A woman approached me with an enthusiastic smi=
le
> and just raved about one of my pieces; ( snip ) When I replied
> that I made all of the work for the show in my basement
> (I did not yet have my freestanding studio), she became quite ashen,
> replied
> with a simple "Oh", and excused herself. Apparently my lack of credential=
s,
> with their implicit Nihil Obstat, instantly transformed a very strong wor=
k
> into something one might scrape from one's shoe.
>
>
>
>
Lis Allison on mon 12 sep 11
On September 12, 2011, James Freeman wrote:
> I was actually quite shocked at her reaction, at
> her dismissal of the non-academic, and felt then, as now, that she was
> a pretentious poseur. Also, she was, absolutely, concerned with my
> credentials, ....
Artists in other media run into this regularly too. I think that it is
because some people can't really evaluate the art, so they resort to
trying to evaluate the artist. And they go by credentials because they
don't know you, can't tell if the work is 'good' for themselves and have
nothing else to go by.
Not to excuse this lady - she sure was pretending!
Lis
--
Elisabeth Allison
Pine Ridge Studio
website: www.pine-ridge.ca
Pottery blog: www.studio-on-the-ridge.blogspot.com
Garden blog: www.garden-on-the-ridge.blogspot.com
Kathy Forer on mon 12 sep 11
On Sep 12, 2011, at 9:23 AM, James Freeman w=
r=3D
ote:
> I was quite proud of the fact
> that I produced what I did on my own, with little training and no guidanc=
e=3D
,
> and believed that to be a plus, not a minus.
This may or may not have been the case this time but many people find rever=
s=3D
e snobbery as offensive as outright snobbery.=3D20
Your conversant may have acted as interlocutor relaying the official 'what =
f=3D
or'.=3D20
Kathy Forer
Claypit Creek=3D
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