David Hendley on sat 17 sep 11
Use sheet cork. Find it at hobby, building supply, or auto supply stores.
1/8" is the most common thickness.
E-6000 will work fine. Silicone sealant in a caulking tube works good
and is much cheaper, but hard to keep usable once it has been opened.
In years past, I actually designed and made lids smaller than their pots
with the intention of adding sheet cork, to make canister jars with
tight-fitting sealing lids.
David Hendley
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
http://www.thewahooligans.com
----- Original Message -----
> I'm thinking about winding jute around the inside some lids that are a
> little too loose and am looking to all the glue experts out here for some
> advice. The clay is unglazed, and it's natural jute (no colors). And
> being
> on the lid, I need something that will keep the jute in one place as the
> lid
> is pulled on and off the canister. E-6000? Rubber cement?
Fredrick Paget on sat 17 sep 11
hi keba,
I am a retired product development engineer and a self procaimed glue exper=
t.
Your best bet is a silicone rubber adhesive that was developed many
years ago by Dow Corning. The patent has expired and they no longer
make it but an independent glue company called DAP now offers it.
They call it Household Adhesive Sealant. It is clear transparent.
Comes in a blue-green tube.
I just bought a tube of it from our large local hardware chain owned
by Sears and called Orchard Supply Hardware. I do not think they are
in Ohio but there must be Sears and other such merchants.
It is an adhesive unlike the more common Silicone caulk.
This adhesive silicone can be used to mend broken dishes and I have
used it for decades. It is dish washer safe and unaffected.
You will have to experiment to find the best way to use it. Maybe
just the silicone in a bead would do it with out the jute. Or you can
wind the jute into a bed of the adhesive.
It remains rubberlike after drying which takes overnight.
Fred
>I'm thinking about winding jute around the inside some lids that are a
>little too loose and am looking to all the glue experts out here for some
>advice. The clay is unglazed, and it's natural jute (no colors). And bei=
ng
>on the lid, I need something that will keep the jute in one place as the l=
id
>is pulled on and off the canister. E-6000? Rubber cement?
>
>Or is jute even the best choice here?
>
>keba
>
>--
>**********************************************
>Keba Hitzeman
>Pleasant Hill OH
>
>www.yellowroomarts.com
--
Twin Dragon Studio
Mill Valley, CA, USA
Snail Scott on sat 17 sep 11
On Sep 17, 2011, at 3:12 PM, Keba Hitzeman wrote:
> I'm thinking about winding jute around the inside some lids that are a
> little too loose and am looking to all the glue experts out here for some
> advice...
Is the clay vitrified? Does the glue need to be waterproof?
I'm thinking that if it's jute, then washing isn't planned.
If so, I'd consider plain old Elmer's (white glue) as a first
choice. If washability is needed, I'd reconsider the jute
anyway, and go with a washable gasketing and washable
glue as well.
-Snail
Keba Hitzeman on sat 17 sep 11
I'm thinking about winding jute around the inside some lids that are a
little too loose and am looking to all the glue experts out here for some
advice. The clay is unglazed, and it's natural jute (no colors). And bein=
g
on the lid, I need something that will keep the jute in one place as the li=
d
is pulled on and off the canister. E-6000? Rubber cement?
Or ss jute even the best choice here?
keba
--
**********************************************
Keba Hitzeman
Pleasant Hill OH
www.yellowroomarts.com
Pottery by John on sun 18 sep 11
Keba,
You can use valve grinding compound from the automotive store to create
a smooth, lapped, finish on both the lid and gallery that will change
the sound of the lid and gallery rubbing together to one more pleasant.
The www.potters.org access to the archives had some postings:
http://www.potters.org/SEARCH.ASP?QU=3Dvalve+grinding&titleorbody=3Dbody&ma=
ximumResults=3D50
The "sins of the fathers" one tells about the technique.
--
John Lowes
Sandy Springs, Georgia, USA
http://wynhillpottery.weebly.com
pdp1 on sun 18 sep 11
Hi Keba,
There are of course many possible diameters and depths and ways of being
shaped for 'Lids'.
Can you post some images of these Lidded Pots onto a free site and post the
Link?
Phil
L v
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keba Hitzeman"
> As always, the responses are more than I hoped for, and much appreciated.
>
> David - yes, I am fully aware of the need to have well fitting lids. One
> reason I'm looking for "additives" to lids is because the sound of clay o=
n
> clay is my equivalent to fingernails on the chalkboard. It makes me
> crazy,
> and I want it to stop! I've also had customers ask for this because of
> the
> same reason (even when the lid fits very well), and of course I want my
> customers to be happy. Trust me, I have an entire shard pile of failed
> lids
> and pots, so cutting corners is not what I'm looking for!
>
> Snail - washability is not an issue with these jars, but since the clay i=
s
> not glazed, I'm wondering if the Elmer's wouldn't just "soak into" the
> clay
> and release the jute?
>
> I've already put sheet cork in one, and will be trying the jute + silicon
> on
> another. If I have a 3rd volunteer at some point, jute + Elmer's will be
> added to the mix!
>
> keba
Birgit Wright on sun 18 sep 11
Hi Fred=3D3B This is interesting news=3D2C I have long wondered if using a=
bea=3D
d of silicone around the top seam of a lid with a throat would make it airt=
=3D
ight (assuming the lid is well made) in the manner of a sealing jar ring=
=3D
but on the lid =3D2C or if over time it would glue the two parts together.=
=3D
Have you ever done such a thing=3D2C has anyone? I know there are food saf=
e =3D
silicones out there and the brand you mention sounds accessible . =3D20
=3D20
Just curious=3D2C Birgit Wright
=3D20
=3D20
> Date: Sat=3D2C 17 Sep 2011 17:04:56 -0700
> From: fredrick@WELL.COM
> Subject: Re: Attaching jute to clay
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>=3D20
>> Your best bet is a silicone rubber adhesive that was developed many
> years ago by Dow Corning. The patent has expired and they no longer
> make it but an independent glue company called DAP now offers it.
> They call it Household Adhesive Sealant. It is clear transparent.
> Comes in a blue-green tube.
>=3D20
> This adhesive silicone can be used to mend broken dishes and I have
> used it for decades. It is dish washer safe and unaffected.
>=3D20
> You will have to experiment to find the best way to use it. Maybe
> just the silicone in a bead would do it with out the jute. > >
> >--
> >**********************************************
> >
> >=3D20
>=3D20
=3D
David Woof on sun 18 sep 11
Hi Keba=3D2C
Short of going off on a rant advocating making lids that fit and function p=
=3D
roperly and=3D20
aesthetically=3D3B "Shoe Goo" at (Ace Hardware and other fine "do it" store=
s)=3D
is top of my list=3D20
for flexible joining of materials of differing composition.
Seriously Keba=3D2C I don't know you or your work=3D3B but whether you are =
in t=3D
his for the long haul and=3D20
aspiring to be known as a professional potter or working as a clay loving h=
=3D
obbyist tinkerer=3D3B=3D20
the corners we cut always cut us back.
It is always so much better to toss the flawed work (call it part of tuitio=
=3D
n or paying your dues)
and make them again and again until you get it "right".=3D20
Of course again and again means practice of effective technique with consci=
=3D
ousness and=3D20
understanding of the mechanics and aesthetics of good pottery form.=3D20
Classes with someone who knows and can teach (first choice) Workshops with =
=3D
"same"=3D2C coupled with=3D20
some of the great books and other media available.=3D20
Study the masters=3D2C living and dead=3D2C and if you could be so fortunat=
e=3D3B=3D
study with one or several.
Best wishes and regards=3D2C
David Woof
Personal anecdote: I cherish a pair of ancient=3D2C paid their dues=3D2C le=
athe=3D
r hiking boots that I am=3D20
testing for how long I can keep them together and comfortably functioning w=
=3D
ith the=3D20
aid of Shoe Goo. They have proven great while digging submerged clay from t=
=3D
he Rio Verde and hand
hauling the twenty 5 Gallon buckets up a 50 foot tumbled rocky embankment t=
=3D
o the truck.=3D20
The shoes=3D2C Shoe Goo=3D2C and "this old man" proved up to the wet and ro=
ugh =3D
terrain and are=3D20
still going strong.
___________________________________________________________
7. Attaching jute to clay
Posted by: "Keba Hitzeman" alfarera.pelirroja@GMAIL.COM=3D20
Date: Sat Sep 17=3D2C 2011 2:31 pm ((PDT))
=3D20
I'm thinking about winding jute around the inside some lids that are a
little too loose and am looking to all the glue experts out here for some
advice. The clay is unglazed=3D2C and it's natural jute (no colors). And =
be=3D
ing
on the lid=3D2C I need something that will keep the jute in one place as th=
e =3D
lid
is pulled on and off the canister. E-6000? Rubber cement?
=3D20
Or ss jute even the best choice here?
=3D20
keba
=3D20
--
**********************************************
Keba Hitzeman
Pleasant Hill OH
=3D20
www.yellowroomarts.com
=3D20
=3D
David Hendley on sun 18 sep 11
Fred, many companies now make pure silicone adhesive/sealant.
It is sold as an adhesive as well as a sealant, and it is sold in
small tubes as well as 10.5 oz. tubes for caulking guns. It also
comes in clear, white, and a few other colors.
The most common brands where I live are DAP and GE
(General Electric). DAP is very inexpensive, about $3.50 for
a caulk tube (maybe because it is made in near-by Oklahoma),
and works great, GE costs more but comes with a cap which
helps keep the unused portion from drying in the tube. They are
both guaranteed for 50 years.
This is the same product that I recommended that Keba use in
combination with sheet cork.
David Hendley
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
http://www.thewahooligans.com
----- Original Message -----
> hi keba,
>
> I am a retired product development engineer and a self procaimed glue
> expert.
>
> Your best bet is a silicone rubber adhesive that was developed many
> years ago by Dow Corning. The patent has expired and they no longer
> make it but an independent glue company called DAP now offers it.
> They call it Household Adhesive Sealant. It is clear transparent.
> Comes in a blue-green tube.
>
> I just bought a tube of it from our large local hardware chain owned
> by Sears and called Orchard Supply Hardware. I do not think they are
> in Ohio but there must be Sears and other such merchants.
> It is an adhesive unlike the more common Silicone caulk.
>
> This adhesive silicone can be used to mend broken dishes and I have
> used it for decades. It is dish washer safe and unaffected.
>
> You will have to experiment to find the best way to use it. Maybe
> just the silicone in a bead would do it with out the jute. Or you can
> wind the jute into a bed of the adhesive.
> It remains rubberlike after drying which takes overnight.
>
Keba Hitzeman on sun 18 sep 11
As always, the responses are more than I hoped for, and much appreciated.
David - yes, I am fully aware of the need to have well fitting lids. One
reason I'm looking for "additives" to lids is because the sound of clay on
clay is my equivalent to fingernails on the chalkboard. It makes me crazy,
and I want it to stop! I've also had customers ask for this because of the
same reason (even when the lid fits very well), and of course I want my
customers to be happy. Trust me, I have an entire shard pile of failed lid=
s
and pots, so cutting corners is not what I'm looking for!
Snail - washability is not an issue with these jars, but since the clay is
not glazed, I'm wondering if the Elmer's wouldn't just "soak into" the clay
and release the jute?
I've already put sheet cork in one, and will be trying the jute + silicon o=
n
another. If I have a 3rd volunteer at some point, jute + Elmer's will be
added to the mix!
keba
Vince Pitelka on mon 19 sep 11
I don't get it. I don't understand the concept of making or buying ceramic
covered jars or casseroles and objecting to the sound of clay against clay
when the lid is put in place. What kind of strange response is that? I
mean, it is the real sound of the two pieces coming in contact with each
other. A customer should be able to soak a covered jar or casserole in the
sink or put them in the dishwasher, and of course the casserole needs to go
in a hot oven, so that pretty much eliminates the option of adding
non-ceramic sealing materials.
What I do find offensive is the sound and feel of a glazed lid against a
glazed pot. That always sounds like banging two glazed pots against each
other. It just sounds and feels all wrong. In comparison, the reassuring
"clunk" of a nicely-fitting stoneware or porcelain lid being put in place o=
n
a covered jar or casserole is a reassuring and authentic sound, inherent in
the form and the materials. Getting rid of that sound contradicts the
material. If a person is really dead-set against that sound, it seems to m=
e
it's going to involve switching to some media other than ceramics.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Ron Roy on mon 19 sep 11
Hi Keba,
Just to add another suggestion - you can grind the lid and galley by
centering the pot on your wheel and place some clay around the bottom
to hold it - then hold the lid on the pot while the pot turns - a
little water helps. The result will eventually be a smooth fitting lid
with none of that unpleasant sound.
Clean up is easy.
RR
Quoting Keba Hitzeman :
> As always, the responses are more than I hoped for, and much appreciated.
>
> David - yes, I am fully aware of the need to have well fitting lids. One
> reason I'm looking for "additives" to lids is because the sound of clay o=
n
> clay is my equivalent to fingernails on the chalkboard. It makes me craz=
y,
> and I want it to stop! I've also had customers ask for this because of t=
he
> same reason (even when the lid fits very well), and of course I want my
> customers to be happy. Trust me, I have an entire shard pile of failed l=
ids
> and pots, so cutting corners is not what I'm looking for!
>
> Snail - washability is not an issue with these jars, but since the clay i=
s
> not glazed, I'm wondering if the Elmer's wouldn't just "soak into" the cl=
ay
> and release the jute?
>
> I've already put sheet cork in one, and will be trying the jute + silicon=
on
> another. If I have a 3rd volunteer at some point, jute + Elmer's will be
> added to the mix!
>
> keba
>
Liz Gowen 1 on tue 20 sep 11
Sorry Vince, it bothers me too. I don't care for disonit, or non harmonic
sounds. I don't think we can control, nor do I want to ,what isn't pleasing
to us.I do not care for Stavinsky or jazz but that doesn't mean others don'=
t
like it, just not me. I do not think it is the same for a cassorole. As you
said and I agree it needs to be washed, put in an oven and is different tha=
n
small covered jars. NO I have no intention of giving up clay after 41 years
I just generally choose not to make small covered jars, but perhaps will tr=
y
some of the grinding methods others suggest. I had been toying with the ide=
a
for years of lathe turned wood lids and took classe,s but wood is not my
medium and I didn't think the market would be willing to pay the extra for
the turned lid even though woold and clay look great together. There is
also only so much time in a day so I have been looking hard at what is my
medium and to explore it to the best of my ability. Ithink the dislike of
this sound just help to define what I like to make, I am not trying to forc=
e
my like and dislikes on others, too old for that. I have decided to make
what pleases me, and if others like my work great that is part of who I
am.....Liz Gowen
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Vince Pitelka
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 7:21 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Attaching jute to clay
I don't get it. I don't understand the concept of making or buying ceramic
covered jars or casseroles and objecting to the sound of clay against clay
when the lid is put in place. What kind of strange response is that? I
mean, it is the real sound of the two pieces coming in contact with each
other. A customer should be able to soak a covered jar or casserole in the
sink or put them in the dishwasher, and of course the casserole needs to go
in a hot oven, so that pretty much eliminates the option of adding
non-ceramic sealing materials.
What I do find offensive is the sound and feel of a glazed lid against a
glazed pot. That always sounds like banging two glazed pots against each
other. It just sounds and feels all wrong. In comparison, the reassuring
"clunk" of a nicely-fitting stoneware or porcelain lid being put in place o=
n
a covered jar or casserole is a reassuring and authentic sound, inherent in
the form and the materials. Getting rid of that sound contradicts the
material. If a person is really dead-set against that sound, it seems to m=
e
it's going to involve switching to some media other than ceramics.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Gayle Bair on tue 20 sep 11
Hi Vince et al,
I felt the same way until my daughter told me she cringes at that sound and
then one of the owners of a shop which carries my work told me the same
thing. So I figure it must be true as I know 2 people who cannot handle the
sound. My daughter said that's why she didn't pursue clay after her HS
class.
In addition I only ever made one glazed lid/pot.... ewwwww sound.... plus
the lid didn't fit well!
Some of my teapots scream for non clay additions e.g. cane, wood, etc for
the handles. So there are occasions I'll use non clay items on functional
ware.
The answers to Keba is to get better at making tighter fitting lids, use
another material for lids or make pots that don't need lids. I did some
research a while back and found some silicon lids that stretch but they wer=
e
pretty pricey. Do a search for "silicon lids" or see:
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=3Dgmail&rls=3Dgm&q=3Dsilicone=
+lids&um=3D1&ie=3DUTF-8&tbm=3Dshop&cid=3D3658942348510521145&sa=3DX&ei=3D0b=
V4Tq-MM6iksQLTr8i0DQ&ved=3D0CDwQ8wIwAA
Best regards,
Gayle Bair
www.claybair.com
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> I don't get it. I don't understand the concept of making or buying cerami=
c
> covered jars or casseroles and objecting to the sound of clay against cla=
y
> when the lid is put in place. What kind of strange response is that? I
> mean, it is the real sound of the two pieces coming in contact with each
> other. A customer should be able to soak a covered jar or casserole in t=
he
> sink or put them in the dishwasher, and of course the casserole needs to =
go
> in a hot oven, so that pretty much eliminates the option of adding
> non-ceramic sealing materials.
> >snip
douglas fur on sat 24 sep 11
Keba
something lurking in the back of my head says that jute degrades quickly...
DRB
Seola Creek
> Or ss jute even the best choice here?
>
> keba
>
> --
> **********************************************
> Keba Hitzeman
> Pleasant Hill OH
>
> www.yellowroomarts.com
>
Keba Hitzeman on tue 4 oct 11
Just to update:
Jar #1: Winding jute is a somewhat messy and time-consuming proposition,
and (at least with the jute I have), all those little sticky-out bits are
aggravating. Not fun.
Jar #2: Used E6000 to attach a cork strip to the lid and like that method
much better. No sticky-out bits, and a smooth slide on and off the jar.
This may have potential.
Absolutely the best answer is to work on better-fitting lids - I've not had
a problem in the past, just with a few jars recently, hence the idea of
wrapping jute.
And it seems that I'm not the only one with an aversion to the sound of
unglazed clay on clay, and that's nice to know, because sometimes it's just
me with the issue. Come to think of it, I don't have any lidded clay items
in my house. Since this is really the only thing I make with a lid, I may
just rework the design to avoid the issue altogether. I like the wood lid
idea, but don't have the workshop ready for turning wood yet. Hopefully
this winter.
keba
On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 3:03 PM, douglas fur <23drb50@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Keba
> something lurking in the back of my head says that jute degrades quickly.=
..
> DRB
> Seola Creek
>
>
>> Or ss jute even the best choice here?
>>
>> keba
>>
>> --
>> **********************************************
>> Keba Hitzeman
>> Pleasant Hill OH
>>
>> www.yellowroomarts.com
>>
>
>
--
**********************************************
Keba Hitzeman
Pleasant Hill OH
www.yellowroomarts.com
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