Joyce Lee on sun 25 jan 98
Once again I am in awe of Clayarters who have responded movingly to my
simple, and admittedly tinged-with-ignorance, statements about tea bowls
and possible mug ceremonies. I won't repeat them here for I must
respect our lurkers' sense of privacy, but Derek's, Cindy's and Jenni's
posted to the list are wonderful examples. I, too, am touched by tea
bowls and, obviously, touched-in-the-head by the challenge of a good,
simple mug cum handle. To add to the confusion, my favorite juice vessel
at the moment is shino-glazed with carbon trapping and woodfired, which
I purchased at the Archie Bray last Summer on the way to northern
Manitoba. It's one of those that might "appear" to have been thrown
rather carelessly, has an organic look with a kind of blobby flare at
the bottom (gotta' work on my descriptions) and a somewhat uneven rim,
which evokes from some potters the response, "You paid $18.00 for that?
Hmmm. Gonna' send you a special invitation to MY shows!" with the clear
implication that if I'd buy THAT, I'd buy anything. Oh, not so...so not
so. I wish the artist could know how nicely it fits in the hand and how
gently it brushes the lips. There's a graceful stamp on its side with, I
think, "JD" imprinted. Thank you, JD. Wish I knew who you are.
Question: Somewhere on the net or in what is becoming (thanks to
Clayarters' suggestions) my rather extensive clay library, I saw
pictures of summer, winter, spring and fall tea bowls. Alas, can't find
them now. Any information as to such sightings would be received most
gratefully.
Joyce
In the Mojave
Donald G. Goldsobel on mon 26 jan 98
I wish the artist could know how nicely it fits in the hand and how
>gently it brushes the lips. There's a graceful stamp on its side with, I
>think, "JD" imprinted. Thank you, JD. Wish I knew who you are.
>
>
I believe the artist is Josh Deweese, the current director of the Archie
Bray. I went to a workshop of his and the style you describe is definately
his. I agree his work is very user friendly.
Donald in the San Fernando Valley where the sun is shining and 70 deg is
the forecast.
terryh on tue 13 feb 01
the "tea bowls" discussion reminded me of a japanese saying, "potters
journey begins at tea bowls and ends at tea bowls".
Terry Hagiwara
terryh@pdq.net
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Cafe/3755
Vicki Katz on tue 13 feb 01
Mel's entry on the subject brought to mind Mark Hewitt's comment at NCECA a
couple years ago - something about THE GREAT AMERICAN ICE TEA CEREMONY.
I think Mel hit it on the nose, again. Wisdom from our mayor.
will edwards on tue 13 feb 01
Hello,
I think traditions are great ways to understanding ouselves better on hig=
her
levels. The ceremony of drinking tea to the ritual of the shaman listenin=
g to
the hand-made drum comes to mind. We live and work so fast that the rhyth=
m of
our daily routine is not in pace with our needs for comfort and relaxatio=
n.
Touching clay and spending time with Earthy things and traditions can bri=
ng
out that in a person.
In my mind I see us potters as going into a state of thought when we sit =
down
at the wheel that carries our emotions from our brain and spirit down to =
our
finger tips. Some control this through excercises in judgement and need f=
or
output, others just create. Thats what I see the tea bowl become, a creat=
ion
from the spirit without forethought. Only the thought of a tea bowl for t=
he
purpose of ceremony may come to mind.
Of course all can produce such pieces at any level of experience but thos=
e
that are guided and less controlled by their ambitions are capable of fix=
ing
their feelings within the clay and bring that form to a life of its own. =
Thats
the character I see. The very skilled crafter can do this in a swifter wa=
y. I
still see beginning students making the tea bowl and sometimes not realiz=
ing
it! I believe it would be good for our Center to look at having a potters=
tea
ceremony and share in this knowledge!
William Edwards
Alchemy 101
____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D=
1
Rick Monteverde on tue 13 feb 01
William -
Do you or anyone else here know any web sites with images/discussions
of tea bowls?
Thanks,
- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI
Steve Mills on thu 15 feb 01
Robert Yellin's takes a lot of beating.
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
In message , Rick Monteverde writes
>William -
>
>Do you or anyone else here know any web sites with images/discussions
>of tea bowls?
>
>Thanks,
>
>- Rick Monteverde
>Honolulu, HI
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Elizabeth Judd on fri 21 sep 01
Hi all,
I'm going to throw some Japanese tea bowls and am wondering if
anyone has any interesting info to share about them--technical or
just historical. For instance, are there traditional glazes used? Or
standard sizes?
Thanks!
Elizabeth
"All human beings are dream beings. Dreaming ties all
mankind together."--Jack Kerouac
http://www.care2.com - Get your Free e-mail account that helps save Wildlife!
Imzadi Donelli on fri 21 sep 01
A movie with a great representation of an authentic Japanese tea ceremony is
"Karate Kid 2". The actress, Tamlyn Tamita does one version of a ceremony for
Daniel-son, about halfway through the film. Pay attention to how EVERY move,
every object she touches is done with a ritual symbolic meaning, whether she
places the dipping spoon up or down. the direction of her palms and hands,
etc., how many times she wipes and the direction and hand movements she
rotates the bowls.
The Raku process was originally a quick process for the firing of the tea
bowls. The crackle glazes allows the tea to flavor the clay over time. If the
tea bowl actually has a bitter or off taste after the first drinking, it is
traditionally broken, as no tea after that will be much better tasting. The
more tea that is drunk from a good bowl over time, the bowl actually starts
to flavor the tea.
There are two types of Japanese tea bowls, winter and summer tea bowls.
Winter tea bowls have more of a "U" shape to them. This keeps the heat in.
The summer tea bowls have more of a "V" shape to them, allowing more surface
of the tea to be exposed to the air to cool the tea. Most tea bowls that I
have seen, are sized to fit into the two (aveage sized) hands cupped together.
There is a Japanese Tea center in NYC, around the upper east side. They have
actual tea ceremonies about once a month or two and explain the whole process
and have literature on it. There are differnent types of ceremonies. It is
called the Chanoyou Center, or something like that. Chanoyou (spelling may be
off) meaning tea. Can't quite remember the name at the moment as last week's
events have kind of wiped it from my mind at the moment. (I have yet to
return to an apartment my family has in NYC that once had a beautiful view of
the Twin Towers where there is now a hole in the view as well as in my
heart.) (
Imzadi
Hank Murrow on fri 21 sep 01
>Hi all,
> I'm going to throw some Japanese tea bowls and am wondering if
>anyone has any interesting info to share about them--technical or
>just historical. For instance, are there traditional glazes used? Or
>standard sizes?
>Thanks!
>Elizabeth
>
Dear Elizabeth;
Having just had a beautiful "chabako" or picnic Tea served in our
garden, I heartily reccommend that you make some sencha (leaf) tea and some
matcha (powdered) tea. Use any pots you have that seem like they might work.
Soon, you will know what is needed. And try handbuilding some also!
This is a most direct way of knowing IMHO.
Cheers, Hank (safe in his garden in Eugene)
William Lucius on sun 23 sep 01
Two references with information on tea bowls:
Cort, Louise Allison
1992 Seto and Mino Ceramics: Japanese Collections in the Freer Gallery of
Art. University of Hawaii Press, Honolulu
Plumer, Caroline I.
1972 Temmoku: A Study of the Ware of Chien. Idemitsu Art Gallery, Tokyo.
_________________________________________________________________
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Tony Ferguson on fri 28 sep 01
Elizabeth,
If you do a search for "raku" "teabowl" "chawan"
"wabisabi" wabi sabi" you will probably find more
information on teabowls than you need. Also consider
that what you make is not Japanese and Japanese find
it funny that we try to make Japanese work--I have
found that they do not like to buy work that looks
Japanese that was not made by a Japanese artist.
--you will want to throw them off the hump for
starters.
--set the speed and take your foot off. Get centered
--use your stick to cut and carry them off the hump
--you can use a variety of tools to shape your
teabowl.
--hands are best
--=as Americans, we tend to be tight. Learning how to
throw teabowls off the hump will loosen you up so get
ready to let go of your idea of perfection and classic
form should you embrace them.
--Have fun! Commit to a #25 block of clay and you
can't leave until you done--set up your boards around
you. Drink a little tea green or otherwise to help
you get into the mood. Tea is good.
I like to think of my work as inspired by the Japanese
and Korean energy and forms yet conscious that what I
make is not an attempt at creating their work (it
can't be done) but rather my American interpretation
of it. I have found that by taking what I see as the
best parts of other's works & inspiration, energy, I
am truly developing my own work and aethestic instead
of hanging on the curtails of another cultures--easy
to copy (sometimes) harder to take it and make it
better (most if the time). Good luck!
Tony Duluth, MN
--- Elizabeth Judd wrote:
> Hi all,
> I'm going to throw some Japanese tea bowls and am
> wondering if
> anyone has any interesting info to share about
> them--technical or
> just historical. For instance, are there traditional
> glazes used? Or
> standard sizes?
> Thanks!
> Elizabeth
>
>
> "All human beings are dream beings. Dreaming ties
> all
> mankind together."--Jack Kerouac
> http://www.care2.com - Get your Free e-mail account
> that helps save Wildlife!
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
=====
--Tony Ferguson, fergyart@yahoo.com(218) 727-6339Looking to see, buy or barter artwork go to:http://www.geocities.com/fergyart/fergyartmainpage.html
Kelly Averill Savino on thu 14 mar 02
The part that always strikes me in the story of the emperor's new clothes is not the cleverness of the tailors who fooled him, but how sad it is that nobody wanted to be the first to say, "I don't see it..."
I don't pretend to understand teabowls, and confess that my husband and I made fun of the first ones we saw. I wasn't brave enough to confess outloud that I didn't get it. (glad you did!) I sneaked off and got a few books at the library and that helped a little; they made me question our "industrial standard" and see that the teabowl "thing" wasn't easily translated to my culture.
I took a workshop with mel, and actually held a teabowl in my hands as he explained the idea, the elements each one should have, how they are used and why they are treasured. A little light went on and I started to think maybe this was a SENSORY thing --- my hands on that silky glaze, turning the faceted bowl, finding I had a "favorite" side to look at but my fingers kept seeking out a little irregularity that was "their" favorite...
Then once in a class at the UU church called "Mindfulness in everyday life", someone conducted a tea ceremony. We were asked to hold the teabowls in our hands all the time we were together; asked to notice the aromas wafting up under our noses, the warm round shape of the bowl in our hands (I always think the comfort goes back to breastfeeding memories) and the taste/heat of the tea in our mouths. It was lovely, but I was saddened by those identical, international-house-of-pancakes, white with a green rim applesauce cups in our hands. No pleasure for the eye, for the fingertips...
I still don't claim to understand the teabowl "thing", but I have to say that in a recent workshop with Jack Troy and he showed slides of teabowls that just about knocked me out of my chair. Something about the perspective of a woodfirer, who values the unplannable, the "happy accident", the cooperation between our plans and the unpredictable elements of ash and flame... and a lot of pots that end up thrown down the gulley... then the few that are so fascinating and can never be duplicated.
I'm still working toward an appreciation... I think I'm growing to a point where I can often (not always) look at something I just "don't get" and decide it's something lacking in ME... of course, it doesn't always work out that way. With some things (like scotch, cigars, and limburger cheese) I give it my best and still can't stand the stuff... Still, coming from a ^6 oxidation world, it's hard for me to see jagged-looking, cratery glazes and pictur them in my hands (or held to my lips!)
enjoying this thread... Kelly in Ohio
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Lois Ruben Aronow on thu 14 mar 02
Interesting topic, kelly!
I confess that I don't understand the whole tea bowl thing either. I
appreciate them as I would appreciate any beautiful pot, but I don't
get the whole "mystique-of-the-teabowl" thing.
I have taken Jack Troy's workshops, and Jeff Oestrich's,f or that
matter. Both make gorgeous tea bowls. I've been to the Asia Society
here in NYC. I'm also working toward an appreciation, but I seriously
doubt tea bowls will have any place in my repertoire.
If I remember correctly, there was a very interesting thread a while
back about tea bowls vs. handled mugs. I'm a handle type of girl. =20
Personally speaking, I strive to be the bastard child of Eva Zeisel
and Antonio Gaudi. Have no desire for the asian aesthetic thing.
Gaudi in particular blows me away. A whole church that looks like
it's melting? Cool. A tea bowl? I'm still scratching my head.
--------------------------------------------
Lois Ruben Aronow
gilois@bellatlantic.net
=46ine Craft Porcelain
http://www.loisaronow.com
pammyam on thu 14 mar 02
I don't understand it, and I don't make them, but there is
something about some teabowls that I find very appealing.
It's perhaps the way they feel in my hands and how they fit
and the assymmetry and some of the glazes. I have just a few
four by different people and two very different ones by the
same person. I feel somewhat the same about little bowls
that fit just in the palm of my hand ever-so-nicely.
Pam
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lois Ruben Aronow"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: tea bowls
Interesting topic, kelly!
I confess that I don't understand the whole tea bowl thing
either. I
appreciate them as I would appreciate any beautiful pot, but
I don't
get the whole "mystique-of-the-teabowl" thing.
I have taken Jack Troy's workshops, and Jeff Oestrich's,f or
that
matter. Both make gorgeous tea bowls. I've been to the Asia
Society
here in NYC. I'm also working toward an appreciation, but I
seriously
doubt tea bowls will have any place in my repertoire.
If I remember correctly, there was a very interesting thread
a while
back about tea bowls vs. handled mugs. I'm a handle type of
girl.
Personally speaking, I strive to be the bastard child of Eva
Zeisel
and Antonio Gaudi. Have no desire for the asian aesthetic
thing.
Gaudi in particular blows me away. A whole church that looks
like
it's melting? Cool. A tea bowl? I'm still scratching my
head.
--------------------------------------------
Mark A. Dyer on thu 14 mar 02
Great Topic Kelly
I have been studying and practicing the Lotus Sutra, which is a form of
buddhism for a number of years. What I have found is the inability of
people to distinguish the difference between cultural traditions and the
true meaning of what they are trying to learn. I also see the same when
it comes to producing art, people get caught up in the cultural
tradition of a certain movement as the truth or puritan way of producing
work and seem to forget to live in the time and moment in which they're
working. Appreciating a tea bowl for what it is and how it was produced
is (imho) noble, however when you idolize it to the point you don't
allow yourself to grow past it, it just becomes a way of hiding or
protecting ones self form the world around them. I truly value the idea
and tradition of the tea bowl and the great honor and respect that it
was meant to convey. I too try to approach my own work with the same
mind set of honor and respect, building on my own interpretation of what
that might mean in this day and time.
Just MHO
Mark
Hank Murrow on thu 14 mar 02
Lois Ruben Aronow wrote;
>
>Personally speaking, I strive to be the bastard child of Eva Zeisel
>and Antonio Gaudi. Have no desire for the asian aesthetic thing.
>Gaudi in particular blows me away. A whole church that looks like
>it's melting? Cool. A tea bowl? I'm still scratching my head.
>
Dear Lois;
On my fist visit to Sagrada Familia, I went to the west (holy
family) porch and as I went in the building I looked up to the portal
to see the birds that were sculpted above seem to lift off from the
waves around the portal! For me it is Gaudi AND tea bowls.
Cheers, Hank in Eugene
Bob Pulley on fri 15 mar 02
A sculptor friend of mine (trained in ceramics in grad school) has spent a =
couple sessions in Japan doing sculptor. He has met some young artists =
there. Last year one of them came to Indiana University to visit, lecture =
and do some sculpture. While visiting he did what he called a "Hoosier =
Tea". He put a blanket on the lawn outside a chemistry room, ran an =
extension chord out the window and mixed tea in a very tall glass =
measuring beaker with a glass rod affixed to an electric drill. My friend =
said he performed the ceremony with the utmost grace, attention and focus. =
Sometimes we get caught up in form and miss the point.
Bob Pulley
Gene and Dolita Dohrman on tue 30 sep 03
Just throwing in my 2 cents. I have always wondered what the big deal =
has been about slumped tea bowls with frothy, pitted glazes, I don't =
care who made them. They do not take my breath away. A few examples of =
what does - an incredible copper green faceted pitcher by Jim Connell, =
Dannon Rhudy's "pieced pots" - there is a picture of a grouping of these =
before their bisque firing in an edition of CM - carried it to the =
studio every time till she actually gave instructions in a Pottery =
Making Illustrated issue on how to make them. Talk about inspiring! I =
am ever so grateful. Peter Lane's beautiful carved bowls - one is =
called "Hedgerow". I have been carving and piercing ever since. Lucie =
Rie's perfectly balanced bowls. I could go on of course. We all have =
our inspirations and our admirations. But the little tea bowls? =
Nope.....
Dolita in Kentucky - the studio is taking shape!=20
dohrman@insightbb.com
Dolita Dohrman
Hank Murrow on tue 30 sep 03
On Tuesday, September 30, 2003, at 04:42 PM, Lee Love wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gene and Dolita Dohrman"
>
>> Just throwing in my 2 cents. I have always wondered what the big
>> deal has
> been about slumped tea bowls
>> with frothy, pitted glazes, I don't care who made them.
>
> Dolita, could you please point us to a photo of one of these tea
> bowls?
> I'm trying to imagine what you are talking about.
>
> If you go here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mingei/ You can
> see the
> kind of tea bowl I like.
>
>
> Actually, the best way to experience a tea bowl is not by
> looking at
> it, but rather, by using it. It is the most intimate form, like
> cradling
> a woman's breast in two hands.
>
> If you go here:
> http://www.winthrop.edu/vpa/art_&_design/faculty/connell.htm You can
> see a
> Jim Connel vase.
>
> Go here
> http://www.nottinghamarts.org/Workshops/MelDannon/MelDannon09.html
> And see a Rhudy teapot.
>
> Peter Lane bowl: http://www.burne.fsbusiness.co.uk/pottery.htm
>
> Lucie Rie bowl: http://www.galeriebesson.co.uk/rie.html
>
>
> I found these photos doing an image search on Google. I
> don't
> think any of these works can be categorically dismissed, but can and
> must be
> critiqued, based upon their own merit.
>
> --
> Lee In Mashiko, Japan Lee@Mashiko.org
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Hank Murrow on wed 1 oct 03
On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 04:25 PM, Lee Love wrote:
> I saw some of these?teabowls at the opening show of the Ceramics
> museum in Kasama. I think that it is partially a matter of taste.
> Many people like Suzuki's work and many people are crazy about Modern
> Japanese Shino, but these are not my favorite tea bowl shapes (as I
> mentioned before, my favorite tea bowls are "found" tea bowls) and the
> bright orange shinos are not my favorite. I much prefer the more
> subtle
> "shino-like" glazes from Minnesota. Remember, the secret of Shino was
> lost and the newly developed glazes in Japan and the West are
> "re-discovered."
Say Lee; Have another look at the fifth bowl down the page you
referenced. I can imagine serving Tea in that bowl with great relish
and enjoyment! Today I worked on hand shaping four matchawan to be
glazed with my Santiam Seto andesite glaze and fired in the Seabeck
anagama across the Puget Sound from Seattle next week. They will pull
them from the stoking door for quick cooling. I am also glazing some
with my shino, which I plan to half-saggar. Today, I had some help from
friends to lay out six slabs for my continuing "Migrations" series.
Life is Good!
Cheers, Hank
Gene and Dolita Dohrman on wed 1 oct 03
Lee,
Thank you for taking the time to look up all those sites with examples =
of the potters I listed. I really did not like that particular teapot =
by Rhudy. Oddly enough, I like some of her pieces more before they are =
glazed. I have made a number of pieces using her technique.
I have found tea bowls like the ones to which I was referring: =20
http://www.holymtn.com/teaceramics/index_teabowl.html
It may be just where I am in my development. I have found that the =
longer I am involved in ceramics, the more open I become to other =
styles. I am still in the "everything must be centered and symmetrical" =
stage - much fussing with the pot after it is thrown.=20
Do you have a web site? I would love to see some of the work you are =
doing there. What a wonderful opportunity!=20
Dolita - open to enlightenment!
dohrman@insightbb.com
Dolita Dohrman
Lee Love on wed 1 oct 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene and Dolita Dohrman"
>Just throwing in my 2 cents. I have always wondered what the big deal has
been about slumped tea bowls
>with frothy, pitted glazes, I don't care who made them.
Dolita, could you please point us to a photo of one of these tea bowls?
I'm trying to imagine what you are talking about.
If you go here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mingei/ You can see the
kind of tea bowl I like.
Actually, the best way to experience a tea bowl is not by looking at
it, but rather, by using it. It is the most intimate form, like cradling
a woman's breast in two hands.
If you go here:
http://www.winthrop.edu/vpa/art_&_design/faculty/connell.htm You can see a
Jim Connel vase.
Go here http://www.nottinghamarts.org/Workshops/MelDannon/MelDannon09.html
And see a Rhudy teapot.
Peter Lane bowl: http://www.burne.fsbusiness.co.uk/pottery.htm
Lucie Rie bowl: http://www.galeriebesson.co.uk/rie.html
I found these photos doing an image search on Google. I don't
think any of these works can be categorically dismissed, but can and must be
critiqued, based upon their own merit.
--
Lee In Mashiko, Japan Lee@Mashiko.org
wayneinkeywest on thu 2 oct 03
snip> Say Lee; Have another look at the fifth bowl down the page you
> referenced. I can imagine serving Tea in that bowl with great relish
> and enjoyment!
snip
Must be a cultural thing. We always put great relish on our hot dogs,
not in our tea.
No, Janet!, don't you come near me with that pink and purple
vibrating tea stirrer...I'll be good, I promise! :>)
Wayne in Key West
Lee Love on thu 2 oct 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene and Dolita Dohrman"
>It may be just where I am in my development.
Thank you for the example.
Here is another link, but by a National Living Treasure:
http://www.nihon-kogeikai.com/KOKUHO-E/SUZUKI-OSAMU-E/SUZUKI-OSAMU-SAKUHIN-E.html
I saw some of these?teabowls at the opening show of the Ceramics
museum in Kasama. I think that it is partially a matter of taste.
Many people like Suzuki's work and many people are crazy about Modern
Japanese Shino, but these are not my favorite tea bowl shapes (as I
mentioned before, my favorite tea bowls are "found" tea bowls) and the
bright orange shinos are not my favorite. I much prefer the more subtle
"shino-like" glazes from Minnesota.
Remember, the secret of Shino was lost and the newly developed glazes in
Japan and the West are "re-discovered."
Lee In Mashiko
Mitch on tue 11 jan 05
I have always assumed that one does not fill a tea bowl all the way to =
the top. Hence there is a cool place to hold the hot cup. Note; my =
grandmother was Russian and allways served tea in a glass and left about =
3/4" unfilled. This is how I was brought up I can only assume the =
Japanes and Chinese are as clever as the Russians.
Mitch
Anne Webb on tue 7 nov 06
I am looking for some opinions & general info on teabowls. There seems to be
a broad range of interpretations out there.
Can anyone perhaps shed a little light about the different types,
aesthetics, philosophies, mechanics, etc. ... or at the very least refer me
to a good source of this info.
Feel free to contact me on or off list
Thanks!
Anne
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Dave Finkelnburg on tue 7 nov 06
Anne,
As you have no doubt found, the Internet has more
information than on this than you may want
to...swallow? Search Clayart's archives for some
repeated posts by Mel Jacobson on his understanding of
what these should be.
Are you asking about formal tea ceremony ware, or
everyday oriental tea cups? The latter, often called
by their Japanese name, yunomi, are basically glazed,
fired, ceramic drinking glasses, though often much
more decorated and almost always vastly more
creatively rendered. All are similar in that they are
made with some sort of, usually trimmed, foot.
Formal tea ceremony ware, often called chawan,
you will find to be seasonal...wide and shallow in
summer so the tea cools quickly...heavier and narrower
in winter so the tea holds its temperature. A small
"well" in the center catches settling tea leaves. The
ware is not necessarily symmetrical. "Flaws" or
accidents of manufacture are frequently highly prized.
This stems from the Zen idea of accepting and valuing
what is, rather than trying to force things to be as
you desire them to be.
There is much more, and from more knowledgeable
sources. I like this site as a starter:
http://www.teaceramics.com/html/chawan-2004.html
Regards,
Dave Finkelnburg
--- Anne Webb wrote:
> I am looking for some opinions & general info on
> teabowls.
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Marcia Selsor on tue 7 nov 06
check out Northern and southern Song Dynasty tea bowls as wrll as
summer and winter tea bowls.
Marcia Selsor
http://marciaselsor.com
Lee Love on wed 8 nov 06
On 11/8/06, Anne Webb wrote:
> I am looking for some opinions & general info on teabowls. There seems to be
> a broad range of interpretations out there.
Hi Ann. I think the best way to understand teabowls, is to make
tea in them. You can read some information about the way of tea
here:
http://urasenke.org/
http://www.urasenkeseattle.org/
Originally, rice bowls were used to make whisked tea in.
The traditional size of a rice bowl can be found by the circle your
two hands make when you touch the middle fingers and thumbs together.
The rustic Korean Ido type are bigger. The straight sided shino
winter type are often of a smaller diameter.
If you can experience drinking whisked tea made by a tea
master a couple times, it will help you.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://potters.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
"When we all do better. We ALL do better." -Paul Wellstone
Lis Allison on mon 18 may 09
On Sunday 17 May 2009 11:08, Lili Krakowski wrote:
> You are totally right. It is a puzzlement. But there are I
> think several coinciding, overlapping reasons for the tea bowl
> fixation
I think there are two things goin on here: a basic underlying principle,
and a mis-use of it.
The underlying principle is that objects used in religious or ceremonial
contexts acquire meaning from their context. Tea Bowls, for example, have
meaning derived from their use in the Tea Ceremony, above and beyond
their use for holding something to drink. Mennorahs have meaning
beyond 'things to hold candles', and so on.
The mis-use is that it is easy to piggy-back on these extra meanings, and
many people do. I happen to think there is something wrong with calling
little bowls Tea Bowls, just to "grab" some of the imputed meaning for
them in order to give them more value. What I mean is, piggy-backing your
little bowl onto a serious philosophy in an effort to sell it for more
money is unethical. It's like trying to sell more work by telling the
public you will donate 10% of sales to some charity.....
The reason the public doesn't buy a lot of 'tea bowls' is that they aren't
Tea Bowls, they are just over-priced little anything bowls. Try pricing
them like your regular 4" bowls and see how fast they sell.
Personally, I made some bowls possibly suitable for use in the Tea
ceremony recently, as part of a small project introduced by my local
Potters' Guild. I really enjoyed learning more about Tea Bowls, and loved
spending a few days lovingly making and finishing some 'tea bowls'. I
found them a real challenge as the criteria for a good Tea Bowl are
strict and not obvious. I do not call what I made Tea Bowls, though. I
call them 'small bowls, which a Tea Practitioner could choose to use as
Tea Bowls'.
Lis
ps. I know my views will offend some of you, but please, no email rage!
Pointing out that doing something that is not right necessarily
criticizes those doing it, but remember, friends don't let friends do bad
things.
--
Elisabeth Allison
Pine Ridge Studio
David on mon 18 may 09
Very interesting topic.=3D20
I have my first show of "tea bowls" opening in Canada in a couple of days.=
=3D
=3D20
I have avoided making them for almost 15 years because of the extreme diffi=
=3D
culty in making them and the baggage that goes with them here in Japan. I h=
=3D
ave to agree=3D20
with most of what Lili says although I am unsure what the Darfurians have t=
=3D
o do with it.. I drink my bancha and all other kinds of tea out of a handle=
=3D
-less cup as I imagine 99% of Japanese do. The only person I know
that drinks regular tea out of a "teabowl" is an Australian expat here. I c=
=3D
an only imagine the colorful words that would be=3D20
used to describe a Japanese person that used an "O chawan" to drink anythin=
=3D
g other than macha outside of the tea ceremony.
I think the tea bowl has an extremely privileged position here in Japan. I =
=3D
still remember the kuuki, the vibe, when I used my=3D20
teacher's second quality teabowl to hold water so I could clean my throwing=
=3D
area. He was a student protest leader in the late=3D20
sixties so I am sure his visceral disgust at seeing me disrespect the teabo=
=3D
wl was held in check by his want for certain kinds of equality.
I wouldn't do the same thing now out of respect for the Japanese.=3D20
I do agree the tea ceremony is a ritual with roots that go as deep as the A=
=3D
merican penchant for individualism. As deep and=3D20
as unexplainable. I don't agree it is the sport of the rich. Yes, it costs =
=3D
a bundle, (I don't practice) but is done by people=3D20
of all economic strata.
=3DA0My two yen,
Dave
Podcast
Eric Hansen on mon 18 may 09
Lili:
When I play my Spanish guitar, do I worry about insulting the Mexicans?
No...
Tea bowls have crossed the cultural barrier decades ago. The Japanese aren'=
t
interested in what we do simply because they only support their own people,
not just in pottery, but in baseball, pop music, etc.
It is a formal exercise, and not an easy one at that, if the potter is bein=
g
honest. But to draft broad sweeping generalizations about it does potters
who accept his challenge a disservice.
Mugs are interesting from a visual point of view as a challenging design as
well, but they convey a distance from intimacy with the object and process
in their function as compared to the handle-less drinking bowl.
Intimacy and silence are two major factors in the contemplative practice of
tea, as developed by Buddhist monks centuries ago. In many ways, it
coincides with a certain attitude about clay, and craft, that isn't going t=
o
go away anytime soon
If beginners make teabowls and the look horrible, so what? Who is getting
hurt? Maybe you should just say "Hey, nice ashtray"...
H A N S E N
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 8:36 AM, David wrote:
> Very interesting topic.
> I have my first show of "tea bowls" opening in Canada in a couple of days=
.
> I have avoided making them for almost 15 years because of the extreme
> difficulty in making them and the baggage that goes with them here in Jap=
an.
> I have to agree
> with most of what Lili says although I am unsure what the Darfurians have
> to do with it.. I drink my bancha and all other kinds of tea out of a
> handle-less cup as I imagine 99% of Japanese do. The only person I know
> that drinks regular tea out of a "teabowl" is an Australian expat here. I
> can only imagine the colorful words that would be
> used to describe a Japanese person that used an "O chawan" to drink
> anything other than macha outside of the tea ceremony.
> I think the tea bowl has an extremely privileged position here in Japan. =
I
> still remember the kuuki, the vibe, when I used my
> teacher's second quality teabowl to hold water so I could clean my throwi=
ng
> area. He was a student protest leader in the late
> sixties so I am sure his visceral disgust at seeing me disrespect the
> teabowl was held in check by his want for certain kinds of equality.
> I wouldn't do the same thing now out of respect for the Japanese.
> I do agree the tea ceremony is a ritual with roots that go as deep as the
> American penchant for individualism. As deep and
> as unexplainable. I don't agree it is the sport of the rich. Yes, it cost=
s
> a bundle, (I don't practice) but is done by people
> of all economic strata.
> My two yen,
> Dave
>
> Podcast
>
Lee Love on mon 18 may 09
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 7:36 AM, David wrote:
> I do agree the tea ceremony is a ritual with roots that go as deep as the=
=3D
American
> penchant for individualism. As deep and
> as unexplainable. I don't agree it is the sport of the rich. Yes, it cost=
=3D
s a bundle, (I don't >practice) but is done by people
> of all economic strata.
> =3DA0My two yen,
It is good not to do tea bowls in Japan until you are sure of
your work.
But you have been away from the USA too long to know the
currents here. There has been a boom in interest in both green leaf
tea and matcha, primarily for the health benefits. So folks are
drinking "non-ceremony" matcha here.
I first was exposed to informal matcha here in Minneapolis,
at the Minneapolis Zen Meditation Center. As you know, green tea
was brought to Japan from China by Zen monks. It was available in
the mediation hall and a kettle was always hot in the hall so monks
could take a break if they were sore or sleepy.
At the zen center in Minneapolis, the matcha was served in a
very informal way. Just set before you with a sweet treat. I also
experienced this kind of tea in Shikoku at Zuioji and in Kyushsu at
Shogoji.
Our woodblock teacher always served matcha when we visited.
His example was very relaxed, centered on hospitality. It is very
accessible to open minded Americans. An the interested in green tea
for health purposed is really booming here. They are even selling
green tea extract for folks who don't like the taste of green tea.
--
"The tea ceremony bowl is the ceramic equivalent of a sonnet: a
small-scale, seemingly constricted form that challenges the artist to
go beyond mere technical virtuosity and find an approach that both
satisfies and transcends the conventions." -- Rob Sliberman
Lee Love on mon 18 may 09
On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Lili Krakowski
wrote:
amped...
>
> The tea ceremony is a profound cultural rite in Japan. =3DA0What I
> have read about it is is a cultural practice of the very rich. =3DA0I
> cannot think of a fit comparison with a Western cultural
> practice, because I cannot think of one that would not sound
> dismissive or insulting. =3DA0Among non-insulting ones I find the
> Seder the most suitable...However. The Seder is for all. =3DA0The tea
> ceremony is not.
Lili,
You share a "western centric" view of our culture. An
"old fart" perspective. While tea is not restricted to Japanese
culture, Japanese culture is just as valid an influence in our culture
as Jewish culture.
Imagine American culture without its African-American
culture. It has permeated our song, dance and art. When foreigners
want to know really American culture, they often turn to studying
dance or music which is indebted to African culture.
> That made The Tea Bowl a big deal on campus. =3DA0Furthermore a bowl
> is a relatively easy thing to throw. =3DA0It is an "obvious" practice
> piece both for throwing on the wheel head and for throwing off
> the hump.
A good tea bowl isn't really that easy to throw. In
Japan, they say you shouldn't try making them until you are 50. But
if you know nothing about them, it is hard to judge.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
"The secret of life is to have a task, something you devote your
entire life to, something you bring everything to, every minute of the
day for the rest of your life. And the most important thing is, it
must be something you cannot possibly do." - Moore, Henry
DJ Brewer on mon 18 may 09
Eric writes:
If beginners make teabowls and the look horrible, so what? Who is getting
hurt? Maybe you should just say "Hey, nice ashtray"...
DJ replies:
roflmao!
I've made a hell of a lot of ashtrays lately!
but I'm gettin better.
pretty soon, someone will say, "that's a damn fine spittoon!"
Mike Gordon on tue 16 mar 10
Here's some info from my files, Mike Gordon
http://employees.oxy.edu/mpitelka/bowl_terms.html
Vince Pitelka on tue 16 mar 10
Mike Gordon wrote:
"Here's some info from my files, Mike Gordon
http://employees.oxy.edu/mpitelka/bowl_terms.html"
Mike -
Please excuse me for bragging, but the above is my son, Morgan Pitelka, who
teaches East Asian Studies at Occidental College, in LA. Morgan and family
will be leaving LA this summer, because he has just been hired into a
tenured senior-faculty associate professor position at UNC-Chapel Hill, wit=
h
responsibility for helping them build their graduate program in East Asian
Studies. Morgan is a scholar of medieval Japanese ceramics and tea culture=
.
It is going to be wonderful to have them (including our grandkids Ravi and
Luca) so much closer.
If anyone wants to find the same information about teabowls in the future
without this link, it is also on the handouts page of my website.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Lee Love on wed 17 mar 10
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 9:51 PM, Antoinette Badenhorst
wrote:
>www.porcelainbyAntoinette.com to see my approach.
Antoinette, I put those tea bowl photos up just for you. Look at
the fifth one down, the Korean translucent porcelain bowl in white.
Maybe it relates to your work:
http://chanoyu-tea.blogspot.com/
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
David on wed 17 mar 10
Hello Antoinette,
I have a post on my blog, http://togeii.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/ido-tea-bo=
wls/ that explains the characteristics of one type of bowl, the ido. Have a=
look see if you like.
Dave
Etsy
Blog
Antoinette Badenhorst on wed 17 mar 10
Thank you for all this information. Hank, Lee, Marcia, Tony, David ( who di=
=3D
d I leave out?) What I picked up this far from a Western standpoint=3DC2=3D=
A0=3D
=3DC2=3DA0is that a bowl becomes a tea bowl=3DC2=3DA0when an individual dec=
ides it =3D
should be a tea bowl.=3D20
From an Asian standpoint there is much more to it. A certain bowls become p=
=3D
art of a spiritual, social or religious events and when that happens, it ca=
=3D
n becomes a tea bowl.=3D20
From the ones that I've seen in real life or on images, it is=3DC2=3DA0ofte=
n a =3D
little thicker and maybe more ( forgive me for using the wrong word here...=
=3D
......the=3DC2=3DA0vocabulary lacks!) crudely made, spontaniuo sly left for=
wha=3D
t it is; almost as if it is meant for wear and tear............... But then=
=3D
:................ it seems to be so precious that some are saved in special=
=3D
boxes as shown by Hank.=3D20
It is clear to me that there is more to it than just a bowl and here is whe=
=3D
re I should stop, because I am talking myself into trouble.=3D20
Question is weather I will be able to make one or if one of my bowls can be=
=3D
come a tea bowl.=3D20
For me in many instances any hollow object holds the potencial to be filled=
=3D
up( or left empty) and it is from that perspective that I create bowls, bu=
=3D
t I work with presicion, particularly when I create porcelain bowls. =3DC2=
=3DA0=3D
=3D20
From a construction perspective it seems as if ttea bowls=3DC2=3DA0all have=
wid=3D
e bottoms, whether it is summer or winter bowls. I could not make out if a =
=3D
rim shape for a lip is at all important.=3D20
Antoinette Badenhorst ( who made some Thaiwanese chili squid last night....=
=3D
..squid still tough despite marinating in buttermilk....................the=
=3D
rest was tasty though!)=3D20
Lincolnshire, Illinois=3D20
----- Original Message -----=3D20
From: "David" =3D20
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D20
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:04:01 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central=3D2=
0
Subject: Re: Tea bowls=3D20
Hello Antoinette,=3D20
I have a post on my blog, http://togeii.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/ido-tea-bo=
=3D
wls/ that explains the characteristics of one type of bowl, the ido. Have a=
=3D
look see if you like.=3D20
Dave=3D20
Etsy=3D20
Blog=3D20
Lee Love on wed 17 mar 10
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Antoinette Badenhorst
wrote:
> From an Asian standpoint there is much more to it. A certain bowls become=
=3D
part of a spiritual, >social or religious events and when that happens, it=
=3D
can becomes a tea bowl.
Originally, tea was brought to Japan as matcha during Sung China times
by Zen monks and was always available during meditation periods. But
Tea Ceremony became secular by the time it was codified in Rikyu's
time.
> From the ones that I've seen in real life or on images, it is=3DA0often a=
l=3D
ittle thicker and maybe more>
> It is clear to me that there is more to it than just a bowl and here is w=
=3D
here I should stop, because
>I am talking myself into trouble.
The teabowls in Sung times were not at all crude, but very
fine. You can see them here. I think the porcelain one is from
Korea. But they all have pedestals. I photographed them at the
Victoria and Albert and at The Minnesota Institute of Art.
http://chanoyu-tea.blogspot.com/
I am afraid most modern tea bowls today, both in and outside of
Japan are cliched or formulaic.
> Question is weather I will be able to make one or if one of my bowls can =
=3D
become a tea bowl.
Get a whisk and powered tea and try it.
More later! Gotta trim!
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
Mike Gordon on wed 17 mar 10
If my memory serves me correctly, Toshiro Mifune drank tea from a
saucer in the Samurai movie " Yojimbo", Mike Gordon
Tony Ferguson on wed 17 mar 10
Ant,
New traditions are born everyday.=3DA0 How something is used generally defi=
ne=3D
s what it is.=3DA0 Make your own tradition.=3DA0 We all too often learn to =
copy=3D
, emulate.=3DA0 Sometimes its time to move beyond, evolve, and create anew.=
=3D
=3DA0 But, a bowl is a bowl is a bowl.=3DA0 It's purpose is up to you to de=
fine=3D
or let others and just keep making your bowls.
Cheers,
Tony Ferguson
Artist/Educator...Clay, Web, Photo, Video, Digital
...where the sky meets the lake...=3D20
http://www.tonyferguson.net
Workshops, Websites, Film making
& Online Digital Photography Training
=3DA0
--- On Wed, 3/17/10, Antoinette Badenhorst =
=3D
wrote:
From: Antoinette Badenhorst
Subject: Re: Tea bowls
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 10:24 AM
Thank you for all this information. Hank, Lee, Marcia, Tony, David ( who di=
=3D
d I leave out?) What I picked up this far from a Western standpoint=3DA0=3D=
A0is=3D
that a bowl becomes a tea bowl=3DA0when an individual decides it should be=
a=3D
tea bowl.=3D20
From an Asian standpoint there is much more to it. A certain bowls become p=
=3D
art of a spiritual, social or religious events and when that happens, it ca=
=3D
n becomes a tea bowl.=3D20
From the ones that I've seen in real life or on images, it is=3DA0often a l=
it=3D
tle thicker and maybe more ( forgive me for using the wrong word here......=
=3D
...the=3DA0vocabulary lacks!) crudely made, spontaniuo sly left for what it=
i=3D
s; almost as if it is meant for wear and tear............... But then:.....=
=3D
........... it seems to be so precious that some are saved in special boxes=
=3D
as shown by Hank.=3D20
It is clear to me that there is more to it than just a bowl and here is whe=
=3D
re I should stop, because I am talking myself into trouble.=3D20
Question is weather I will be able to make one or if one of my bowls can be=
=3D
come a tea bowl.=3D20
For me in many instances any hollow object holds the potencial to be filled=
=3D
up( or left empty) and it is from that perspective that I create bowls, bu=
=3D
t I work with presicion, particularly when I create porcelain bowls. =3DA0=
=3D20
From a construction perspective it seems as if ttea bowls=3DA0all have wide=
b=3D
ottoms, whether it is summer or winter bowls. I could not make out if a rim=
=3D
shape for a lip is at all important.=3D20
Antoinette Badenhorst ( who made some Thaiwanese chili squid last night....=
=3D
..squid still tough despite marinating in buttermilk....................the=
=3D
rest was tasty though!)=3D20
Lincolnshire, Illinois=3D20
----- Original Message -----=3D20
From: "David" =3D20
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D20
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:04:01 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central=3D2=
0
Subject: Re: Tea bowls=3D20
Hello Antoinette,=3D20
I have a post on my blog, http://togeii.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/ido-tea-bo=
=3D
wls/ that explains the characteristics of one type of bowl, the ido. Have a=
=3D
look see if you like.=3D20
Dave=3D20
Etsy=3D20
Blog=3D20
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
Lee Love on wed 17 mar 10
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Tony Ferguson wrote:
> Ant,
>
> New traditions are born everyday.=3DA0 How something is used generally de=
fi=3D
nes what it is.
>Make your own tradition.
That certainly is the artiste's way. But one person cannot be a
tradition by any common understanding of the word.
What might help would be if Antoinette told us who her
audience will be. That helps us understand what she means by "tea
bowl."
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
Marcia Selsor on wed 17 mar 10
I think that design would help create pieces for specific functions. The =
=3D
example that a wider mouth helps something cool faster is pure physics. =3D
I think it is part of designing. Today's potters have been called =3D
"designer craftsmen" because they can design things for a purpose.
I have a collection of traditional Spanish pots . Some have very unique =3D
functions.=3D20
A bowl is a bowl but it could be a cream-based soup bowl or it could be =
=3D
a a winter tea bowl, an aspragus dish, a cheese strainer, a soft-boiled =3D
egg dish, a salt dish, a condiments serving dish, or a dog bowl that a =3D
pooch won't knock over. I was recently in a museum of medicine in Zurich =
=3D
and saw some amazing ceramic vaporizers with several components.. In a =3D
historic museum here in Brownsville, I saw an assemblage of six =3D
wedgewood basalt ware pieces that was an oil lamp with pulleys. SO IMHO =3D
a bowl can be much more than a bowl.
An individuals tradition is like an individuals vocabulary which I have =3D
seen decades ago used by young art students to explain their work.=3D20
How are strangers suppose to know and decipher their individual =3D
vocabulary? I think designer craftsmen have the opportunity to use their =
=3D
creativity to address needs like a bowl that will cool the contents =3D
faster. A bowl can also be a door stop but that is not an endearing =3D
function for one's work.
Marcia Selsor
Artist, Educator, writer, civicly engaged
where the border meets the sea
Tip o'Texas.
On Mar 17, 2010, at 8:02 PM, Tony Ferguson wrote:
> Ant,
>=3D20
> New traditions are born everyday. How something is used generally =3D
defines what it is. Make your own tradition. We all too often learn to =
=3D
copy, emulate. Sometimes its time to move beyond, evolve, and create =3D
anew. But, a bowl is a bowl is a bowl. It's purpose is up to you to =3D
define or let others and just keep making your bowls.
>=3D20
> Cheers,
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Tony Ferguson
> Artist/Educator...Clay, Web, Photo, Video, Digital
> ...where the sky meets the lake...=3D20
> http://www.tonyferguson.net
> Workshops, Websites, Film making
> & Online Digital Photography Training
>=3D20
> =3D20
>=3D20
> --- On Wed, 3/17/10, Antoinette Badenhorst =3D
wrote:
>=3D20
> From: Antoinette Badenhorst
> Subject: Re: Tea bowls
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 10:24 AM
>=3D20
> Thank you for all this information. Hank, Lee, Marcia, Tony, David ( =3D
who did I leave out?) What I picked up this far from a Western =3D
standpoint is that a bowl becomes a tea bowl when an individual decides =
=3D
it should be a tea bowl.=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>> =3D46rom an Asian standpoint there is much more to it. A certain bowls =
=3D
become part of a spiritual, social or religious events and when that =3D
happens, it can becomes a tea bowl.=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>> =3D46rom the ones that I've seen in real life or on images, it is often =
=3D
a little thicker and maybe more ( forgive me for using the wrong word =3D
here.........the vocabulary lacks!) crudely made, spontaniuo sly left =3D
for what it is; almost as if it is meant for wear and =3D
tear............... But then:................ it seems to be so precious =
=3D
that some are saved in special boxes as shown by Hank.=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> It is clear to me that there is more to it than just a bowl and here =3D
is where I should stop, because I am talking myself into trouble.=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Question is weather I will be able to make one or if one of my bowls =3D
can become a tea bowl.=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> For me in many instances any hollow object holds the potencial to be =3D
filled up( or left empty) and it is from that perspective that I create =3D
bowls, but I work with presicion, particularly when I create porcelain =3D
bowls. =3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>> =3D46rom a construction perspective it seems as if ttea bowls all have =
=3D
wide bottoms, whether it is summer or winter bowls. I could not make out =
=3D
if a rim shape for a lip is at all important.=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Antoinette Badenhorst ( who made some Thaiwanese chili squid last =3D
night......squid still tough despite marinating in =3D
buttermilk....................the rest was tasty though!)=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Lincolnshire, Illinois=3D20
>=3D20
> ----- Original Message -----=3D20
> From: "David" =3D20
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D20
> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:04:01 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada =3D
Central=3D20
> Subject: Re: Tea bowls=3D20
>=3D20
> Hello Antoinette,=3D20
> I have a post on my blog, =3D
http://togeii.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/ido-tea-bowls/ that explains the =3D
characteristics of one type of bowl, the ido. Have a look see if you =3D
like.=3D20
> Dave=3D20
>=3D20
> Etsy=3D20
>=3D20
> Blog=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
Marcia Selsor
http://www.marciaselsor.com
Mike on thu 18 mar 10
Tony,
I tend to agree with you here to a point, but I rather think that too
often people don`t learn to copy/emulate nearly enough, then they`re off
trying to move beyond, evolve, create anew. "Basics? Tradition? Stop
trying to stifle my creativity." How often have we all heard variations
of this, not just in ceramics but in a myriad of disciplines?
It can be a big problem, and one main contributor to the current
thread`s question of `what is a teabowl?` because of the preponderance
of vessels out there that one person or another has dubbed a `teabowl`,
because it is loose/floppy and/or nifty in some way, but which really
doesn`t fit the bill.
Mike
Mike
in Taku, Japan
http://karatsupots.com
http://karatsupots.blogspot.com
Kiln Building Workshop, Oct. 15 - 22
http://karatsupots.com/workshop2010/workshop2010.html
http://karatsupots-workshop.blogspot.com/
(2010/03/18 10:02), Tony Ferguson wrote:
> Ant,
>
> New traditions are born everyday. How something is used generally define=
s what it is. Make your own tradition. We all too often learn to copy, em=
ulate. Sometimes its time to move beyond, evolve, and create anew. But, a=
bowl is a bowl is a bowl. It's purpose is up to you to define or let othe=
rs and just keep making your bowls.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Tony Ferguson
> Artist/Educator...Clay, Web, Photo, Video, Digital
> ...where the sky meets the lake...
> http://www.tonyferguson.net
> Workshops, Websites, Film making
> & Online Digital Photography Training
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 3/17/10, Antoinette Badenhorst=
wrote:
>
> From: Antoinette Badenhorst
> Subject: Re: Tea bowls
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 10:24 AM
>
> Thank you for all this information. Hank, Lee, Marcia, Tony, David ( who =
did I leave out?) What I picked up this far from a Western standpoint is t=
hat a bowl becomes a tea bowl when an individual decides it should be a tea=
bowl.
>
>
>
> > From an Asian standpoint there is much more to it. A certain bowls beco=
me part of a spiritual, social or religious events and when that happens, i=
t can becomes a tea bowl.
>
>
>
> > From the ones that I've seen in real life or on images, it is often a l=
ittle thicker and maybe more ( forgive me for using the wrong word here....=
.....the vocabulary lacks!) crudely made, spontaniuo sly left for what it i=
s; almost as if it is meant for wear and tear............... But then:.....=
........... it seems to be so precious that some are saved in special boxes=
as shown by Hank.
>
>
>
> It is clear to me that there is more to it than just a bowl and here is w=
here I should stop, because I am talking myself into trouble.
>
>
>
> Question is weather I will be able to make one or if one of my bowls can =
become a tea bowl.
>
>
>
> For me in many instances any hollow object holds the potencial to be fill=
ed up( or left empty) and it is from that perspective that I create bowls, =
but I work with presicion, particularly when I create porcelain bowls.
>
>
>
> > From a construction perspective it seems as if ttea bowls all have wide=
bottoms, whether it is summer or winter bowls. I could not make out if a r=
im shape for a lip is at all important.
>
>
>
> Antoinette Badenhorst ( who made some Thaiwanese chili squid last night..=
....squid still tough despite marinating in buttermilk....................t=
he rest was tasty though!)
>
>
>
> Lincolnshire, Illinois
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David"
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:04:01 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
> Subject: Re: Tea bowls
>
> Hello Antoinette,
> I have a post on my blog, http://togeii.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/ido-tea-=
bowls/ that explains the characteristics of one type of bowl, the ido. Have=
a look see if you like.
> Dave
>
> Etsy
>
> Blog
>
>
>
>
>
>
Lee Love on thu 18 mar 10
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 5:48 AM, Mike wrote:
> I tend to agree with you here to a point, but I rather think that too
> often people don`t learn to copy/emulate nearly enough, then they`re off
> trying to move beyond, evolve, create anew. "Basics? Tradition? Stop
> trying to stifle my creativity." How often have we all heard variations
> of this, not just in ceramics but in a myriad of disciplines?
I agree Mike.
I just finished an article for Studio Potter about outside cultural
influences upon Japanese ceramics and am working on another that is in
first draft in which I talk in one section about how new tradition
can be started in craft.
> It can be a big problem, and one main contributor to the current
> thread`s question of `what is a teabowl?` because of the preponderance
> of vessels out there that one person or another has dubbed a `teabowl`,
> because it is loose/floppy and/or nifty in some way, but which really
> doesn`t fit the bill.
It's complex, isn't it?
Often, in the USA, a tea bowl is a tea bowl sized object that
the potter thinks represents his best work. Some of them can
actually be used for whisking powdered tea but they, more or less,
fall under the category of "found object" used for tea. Nothing
wrong witi that, but what it is, is the tea maker making decisions
about the bowl because the maker doesn't have the knowledge or
intention of making a bowl for powdered green tea. Actually, that is
where all the original Ido Korean tea bowls came from. The Korean
potter made a simple rice bowl, and the tea master picked the one in
10,000 that made a supreme tea bowl. These bowls, I believe, have
no equal when you compare them to modern matcha jawan made expressly
for tea, which tend to be exaggerated and formulaic.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
Jason Fasi on thu 18 mar 10
As somebody who came to pottery via tea, discussions of chawan (tea bowls=
=3D
)=3D20
are particularly interesting to me. I have my pet peeves about potters wh=
=3D
o=3D20
make "tea bowls" without considering how they will be used, or who mislab=
=3D
el=3D20
smaller teacups (yunomi) as tea bowls (chawan).
But, never one to air my complaints without throwing in something positiv=
=3D
e, I=3D20
have found that many Occidental potters add something interesting to thei=
=3D
r=3D20
tea bowls that distinguish them from the "formulaic and cliche" pots you =
=3D
might=3D20
find in Asian stores.=3D20
And for some utility: I find the links below very useful when considering=
=3D
tea=3D20
bowls for purchase. These blog posts discuss what makes a good tea bowl i=
=3D
n=3D20
terms of utility. I think it would be useful for any would-be chawan make=
=3D
r or=3D20
bowl repurposer:
http://teamind.wordpress.com/2008/05/16/what-to-look-for-in-a-chawan-
part-1/
http://teamind.wordpress.com/2008/05/17/what-to-look-for-in-a-chawan-
part-2/
Of course, the best way to figure out if a bowl is well suited for matcha=
=3D
=3D20
ceremony is to whisk matcha in that bowl.
Wishing good tea to you all,
Jason Fasi
puerh.blogspot.com
teaware.etsy.com
May Luk on thu 18 mar 10
Some interesting events in NYC yesterday.
Continuity & Change in Japanese Ceramics: An Evening with Miwa Kyusetsu XII
http://www.japansociety.org/event_detail?eid=3D3D3b9056c0
The Meaning of Tea (Video)
http://www.asiasociety.org/video/style-living/meaning-tea-complete
It's Asia Week over here in NYC. It would be helpful if y'all say
Japanese rather than Asian when talking about tea bowls in this
thread. If you can specify the tea type, that would be great too
(Matcha!) Otherwise, it's just Asian Confusion and nobody learned
anything.
May
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Lee Love wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 5:48 AM, Mike wrote:
>
>> I tend to agree with you here to a point, but I rather think that too
>> often people don`t learn to copy/emulate nearly enough, then they`re off
>> trying to move beyond, evolve, create anew. "Basics? Tradition? Stop
>> trying to stifle my creativity." How often have we all heard variations
>> of this, not just in ceramics but in a myriad of disciplines?
>
> I agree Mike.
>
> I just finished an article for Studio Potter about outside cultural
> influences upon Japanese ceramics and am working on another that is in
> first draft in which I talk =3DA0in one section about how new tradition
> can be started in craft.
>
>
>> It can be a big problem, and one main contributor to the current
>> thread`s question of `what is a teabowl?` because of the preponderance
>> of vessels out there that one person or another has dubbed a `teabowl`,
>> because it is loose/floppy and/or nifty in some way, but which really
>> doesn`t fit the bill.
>
> =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 It's complex, isn't it?
>
> =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 Often, in the USA, a tea bowl is a tea bowl sized objec=
t that
> the potter thinks represents his best work. =3DA0 Some of them can
> actually be used for whisking powdered tea but they, more or less,
> fall under the category of "found object" used for tea. =3DA0 =3DA0Nothin=
g
> wrong witi that, but what it is, is the tea maker making decisions
> about the bowl because the maker doesn't have the knowledge or
> intention of making a bowl for powdered green tea. =3DA0 Actually, that i=
s
> where all the original Ido Korean tea bowls came from. =3DA0 The Korean
> potter made a simple rice bowl, and the tea master picked the one in
> 10,000 that made a supreme tea bowl. =3DA0 =3DA0These bowls, I believe, h=
ave
> no equal when you compare them to modern matcha jawan made expressly
> for tea, which tend to be exaggerated and formulaic.
>
> --
> =3DA0Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
> http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
>
> =3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
> the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
>
--=3D20
http://twitter.com/MayLuk
Lee Love on thu 18 mar 10
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 12:59 PM, May Luk wrote:
>
> It's Asia Week over here in NYC. It would be helpful if y'all say
> Japanese rather than Asian
If anybody takes the time to look at the images I put up, it is
explicit that I am speaking about Chinese, Korean and Japanese bowls.
They ARE a part of Asia. Without any hesitation, I believe the
Korean bowls are the best.
> when talking about tea bowls in this
> thread. If you can specify the tea type, that would be great too
> (Matcha!) Otherwise, it's just Asian Confusion and nobody learned
> anything.
From the American perspective, I believe very few
potters make and drink matcha in their tea bowls. As I mentioned
previously, I believe tea bowls in America are a "tea bowl" sized bowl
created as a show piece, but not necessarily made for drinking whisked
tea from.
I could clarify by saying: Inspired by Korean and Japanese matcha jawan.
Zen Monks from Sung China invented the drinking of powdered
tea. We should also mention what time period along with which
country too.
In the different "tea countries", if you want to be
understood, you need to be very specific as May requests.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
Hank Murrow on thu 18 mar 10
On Mar 18, 2010, at 10:59 AM, May Luk wrote:
> It would be helpful if y'all say Japanese rather than Asian when =3D20
> talking about tea bowls in this thread. If you can specify the tea =3D20
> type, that would be great too
> (Matcha!) Otherwise, it's just Asian Confusion and nobody learned
> anything.
Very Good Point, May;
I know many potters say teabowl when they really are talking about =3D20
Yunomi. So Japanese Tea indeed, or even better.... Chanoyu(practice =3D20
of Japanese Tea). There is a very fine quarterly journal by that name =3D20=
=3D
published in America.
Go here for a .pdf listing of articles for the first 88 issues:
www.urasenke.or.jp/texte/study/book/.../chanoyu-quarterly00.pdf
Cheers, Hank
=3DEF=3DBF=3DBC
One of my anagama-fired chawan and its bag=3D
Antoinette Badenhorst on thu 18 mar 10
Tony, thanks for your input. I do not think that I will ever call my bowls =
=3D
tea bowls. I will leave that up to others that feel sentimental about that.=
=3D
You can look at www.porcelainbyAntoinette.com to see my approach. The webs=
=3D
ite is still preliminary, but you will get an idea of what I do.=3D20
It was nevertheless interesting to learn about tea bowls.=3D20
Take care.=3D20
Antoinette Badenhorst=3D20
Lincolnshire, Illinois=3D20
----- Original Message -----=3D20
From: "Tony Ferguson" =3D20
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D20
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:02:27 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central=3D2=
0
Subject: Re: Tea bowls=3D20
Ant,=3D20
New traditions are born everyday.=3DC2=3DA0 How something is used generally=
def=3D
ines what it is.=3DC2=3DA0 Make your own tradition.=3DC2=3DA0 We all too of=
ten lear=3D
n to copy, emulate.=3DC2=3DA0 Sometimes its time to move beyond, evolve, an=
d cr=3D
eate anew.=3DC2=3DA0 But, a bowl is a bowl is a bowl.=3DC2=3DA0 It's purpos=
e is up =3D
to you to define or let others and just keep making your bowls.=3D20
Cheers,=3D20
=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0Tony Ferguson=3D20
Artist/Educator...Clay, Web, Photo, Video, Digital=3D20
=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0...where the sky meets the lake...=3D20
=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0http://www.tonyferguson.net=3D20
Workshops, Websites, Film making=3D20
& Online Digital Photography Training=3D20
=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0=3DC2=3DA0=3D20
--- On Wed, 3/17/10, Antoinette Badenhorst =
=3D
wrote:=3D20
From: Antoinette Badenhorst =3D20
Subject: Re: Tea bowls=3D20
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D20
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010, 10:24 AM=3D20
Thank you for all this information. Hank, Lee, Marcia, Tony, David ( who di=
=3D
d I leave out?) What I picked up this far from a Western standpoint=3DC2=3D=
A0=3D
=3DC2=3DA0is that a bowl becomes a tea bowl=3DC2=3DA0when an individual dec=
ides it =3D
should be a tea bowl.=3D20
From an Asian standpoint there is much more to it. A certain bowls become p=
=3D
art of a spiritual, social or religious events and when that happens, it ca=
=3D
n becomes a tea bowl.=3D20
From the ones that I've seen in real life or on images, it is=3DC2=3DA0ofte=
n a =3D
little thicker and maybe more ( forgive me for using the wrong word here...=
=3D
......the=3DC2=3DA0vocabulary lacks!) crudely made, spontaniuo sly left for=
wha=3D
t it is; almost as if it is meant for wear and tear............... But then=
=3D
:................ it seems to be so precious that some are saved in special=
=3D
boxes as shown by Hank.=3D20
It is clear to me that there is more to it than just a bowl and here is whe=
=3D
re I should stop, because I am talking myself into trouble.=3D20
Question is weather I will be able to make one or if one of my bowls can be=
=3D
come a tea bowl.=3D20
For me in many instances any hollow object holds the potencial to be filled=
=3D
up( or left empty) and it is from that perspective that I create bowls, bu=
=3D
t I work with presicion, particularly when I create porcelain bowls. =3DC2=
=3DA0=3D
=3D20
From a construction perspective it seems as if ttea bowls=3DC2=3DA0all have=
wid=3D
e bottoms, whether it is summer or winter bowls. I could not make out if a =
=3D
rim shape for a lip is at all important.=3D20
Antoinette Badenhorst ( who made some Thaiwanese chili squid last night....=
=3D
..squid still tough despite marinating in buttermilk....................the=
=3D
rest was tasty though!)=3D20
Lincolnshire, Illinois=3D20
----- Original Message -----=3D20
From: "David" =3D20
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=3D20
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:04:01 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central=3D2=
0
Subject: Re: Tea bowls=3D20
Hello Antoinette,=3D20
I have a post on my blog, http://togeii.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/ido-tea-bo=
=3D
wls/ that explains the characteristics of one type of bowl, the ido. Have a=
=3D
look see if you like.=3D20
Dave=3D20
Etsy=3D20
Blog=3D20
Lee Love on thu 18 mar 10
I correct myself. At this link:
http://chanoyu-tea.blogspot.com/
There are 8 Sung Chinese Tenmoku matcha bowls and one Korean Porcelain
bowl. No Japanese bowls.
I'll put Ido Korean next.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
=3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. Feel
the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
Marcia Selsor on thu 18 mar 10
They are lovely. They remind me of the Tortoise and Hare's fur show a =3D
decade or so ago.
Thanks for posting.
marcia
On Mar 18, 2010, at 4:52 PM, Lee Love wrote:
> I correct myself. At this link:
>=3D20
> http://chanoyu-tea.blogspot.com/
>=3D20
> There are 8 Sung Chinese Tenmoku matcha bowls and one Korean Porcelain
> bowl. No Japanese bowls.
>=3D20
> I'll put Ido Korean next.
> --
> Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
> http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
>=3D20
> =3D93Observe the wonders as they occur around you. Don't claim them. =3D
Feel
> the artistry moving through and be silent.=3D94 --Rumi
>=3D20
Marcia Selsor
http://www.marciaselsor.com
Eric Hansen on fri 19 mar 10
Jason: Thanks for the links. I find this very useful. check out my sites if
you want to.
- h a n s e n
americanpotter.blogspot.com
thesuddenschool.blogspot.com
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Jason Fasi wrote:
> As somebody who came to pottery via tea, discussions of chawan (tea bowls=
)
> are particularly interesting to me. I have my pet peeves about potters wh=
o
> make "tea bowls" without considering how they will be used, or who mislab=
el
> smaller teacups (yunomi) as tea bowls (chawan).
>
> But, never one to air my complaints without throwing in something positiv=
e,
> I
> have found that many Occidental potters add something interesting to thei=
r
> tea bowls that distinguish them from the "formulaic and cliche" pots you
> might
> find in Asian stores.
>
> And for some utility: I find the links below very useful when considering
> tea
> bowls for purchase. These blog posts discuss what makes a good tea bowl i=
n
> terms of utility. I think it would be useful for any would-be chawan make=
r
> or
> bowl repurposer:
>
> http://teamind.wordpress.com/2008/05/16/what-to-look-for-in-a-chawan-
> part-1/
> http://teamind.wordpress.com/2008/05/17/what-to-look-for-in-a-chawan-
> part-2/
>
> Of course, the best way to figure out if a bowl is well suited for matcha
> ceremony is to whisk matcha in that bowl.
>
> Wishing good tea to you all,
>
> Jason Fasi
> puerh.blogspot.com
> teaware.etsy.com
>
| |
|
