mel jacobson on sat 15 oct 11
anyone that teaches throwing and has a batch of wheels
knows that high speed is awful.
it is how buckets of water get spilled, pots fly off,
and that twenty pound mass of crap in the hands
of a 250 lb boy is danger to all near him.
(and, the best big bowl you have ever made just
flew off the wheel head and smashed on the floor as
you hit the foot pedal too hard.)
it is so easy to set all the wheels at a modest speed.
see your wheel book/directions, or go online.
the standard brent is a simple adjustment under the
foot pedal. the new ones even have a small hole for
a screwdriver.
set them all the same.
your life will get much better.
i have asked the staff at brent why they set the
wheels so fast. they just say that is the way they
always have done it. i just shake my head.
great engineers, but not potters, or teachers of pots.
strange.
mel
from: minnetonka, mn
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
John Hesselberth on sun 16 oct 11
On Oct 15, 2011, at 7:29 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
> i have asked the staff at brent why they set the
> wheels so fast. they just say that is the way they
> always have done it. i just shake my head.
> great engineers, but not potters, or teachers of pots.
I disagree. A great engineer knows what his/her product is used for and =3D
sets it up appropriately. These are poor engineers!
Regards,
John
John Hesselberth
john@frogpondpottery.com
"American football combines the two worst aspects of American culture -- =
=3D
violence and committee meetings." George Will
John Post on sun 16 oct 11
An art teacher I am sharing a school with this year told me she needs
a new kiln at her other school. I asked her why. She said "The kiln
blows everything up."
It is a computer controlled kiln that was made by Evenheat with a
Perfect Fire controller. This model kiln was shipped by Evenheat with
a preset profile heating ramp of 400 degrees per hour.
Every art teacher I have helped with this model kiln has a kiln bottom
full of shards. This model kiln has probably blown up thousands of
kid sculptures because teachers don't know how to change the preset
heating ramp. The directions are in the manual, but the art teachers
I know keep selecting the preset "soft fire ramp" and blowing up work
over and over.
Evenheat doesn't sell kilns with this model controller any longer, but
it does make you wonder which engineer thought a 400 degree per hour
ramp would be useful as a " soft fire preset" heating rate.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
http://www.johnpost.us
Follow me on Twitter
https://twitter.com/UCSArtTeacher
> i have asked the staff at brent why they set the
>> wheels so fast. they just say that is the way they
>> always have done it. i just shake my head.
>> great engineers, but not potters, or teachers of pots.
>
> I disagree. A great engineer knows what his/her product is used for
> and sets it up appropriately. These are poor engineers!
>
Randall Moody on sun 16 oct 11
I feel the need to point out that it isn't the kiln that is at fault in thi=
s
instance. It isn't the kiln that is blowing up pots. The kiln is simply
doing the job that the "art teacher" is telling it to do. The fault for the
broken work lies directly and squarely on the shoulders of the teacher that
doesn't know now to properly use the equipment. Blaming the kiln is akin to
complaining that your keyboard keeps misspelling words.
If you don't want your wheel to go fast, don't press so far on the pedal.
It is a poor workman who blames his tools.
--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 11:03 AM, John Post wrot=
e:
> An art teacher I am sharing a school with this year told me she needs
> a new kiln at her other school. I asked her why. She said "The kiln
> blows everything up."
>
> It is a computer controlled kiln that was made by Evenheat with a
> Perfect Fire controller. This model kiln was shipped by Evenheat with
> a preset profile heating ramp of 400 degrees per hour.
>
> Every art teacher I have helped with this model kiln has a kiln bottom
> full of shards. This model kiln has probably blown up thousands of
> kid sculptures because teachers don't know how to change the preset
> heating ramp. The directions are in the manual, but the art teachers
> I know keep selecting the preset "soft fire ramp" and blowing up work
> over and over.
>
> Evenheat doesn't sell kilns with this model controller any longer, but
> it does make you wonder which engineer thought a 400 degree per hour
> ramp would be useful as a " soft fire preset" heating rate.
>
> John Post
> Sterling Heights, Michigan
>
> http://www.johnpost.us
>
> Follow me on Twitter
> https://twitter.com/**UCSArtTeacher
>
>
>
> i have asked the staff at brent why they set the
>>
>>> wheels so fast. they just say that is the way they
>>> always have done it. i just shake my head.
>>> great engineers, but not potters, or teachers of pots.
>>>
>>
>> I disagree. A great engineer knows what his/her product is used for
>> and sets it up appropriately. These are poor engineers!
>>
>>
Liz Gowen 1 on sun 16 oct 11
Mel do you mean like this?
I hope David Cuzick doesn't mind that I copied and pasted this from his web
site. I love to watch it.
Liz Gowen
http://cuzickpottery.com/clayworks/Mystery_Link.html
Mel said
anyone that teaches throwing and has a batch of wheels knows that high spee=
d
is awful.
it is how buckets of water get spilled, pots fly off, and that twenty pound
mass of crap in the hands of a 250 lb boy is danger to all near him.
(and, the best big bowl you have ever made just flew off the wheel head and
smashed on the floor as you hit the foot pedal too hard.)
Jim Kasper on sun 16 oct 11
=3D20
=3D20
John,
=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 I
infer from your post that when you worked as an engineer, they allowed yo=
=3D
u
to decide the marketing parameters.=3DA0 You lucky dog!!!
It
has been my experience that a lot of products go to market with options
based on the gut feelings of product managers, or features demanded by th=
=3D
e
loudest customer ( or sales guy)
Regards,
Jim
=3DA0Zafka Studios
Jensen
Beach, FL.
http://zafka.com
Phone: 772-334-3070
Posted by: "John
Hesselberth" =3D20
jjhesselberth@GMAIL.COM =3D20
Sun
Oct=3DA016,=3DA02011 5:31=3DA0am (PDT) =3D20
On Oct 15, 2011, at 7:29 PM, mel jacobson
wrote:
=3D20
> i have asked the staff at brent why they set
the
> wheels so fast. they just say that is the way they
> always have done it. i just shake my head.
> great
engineers, but not potters, or teachers of pots.
=3D20
I disagree.
A great engineer knows what his/her product is used for and sets it up
appropriately. These are poor engineers!
=3D20
Regards,
=3D20
John
=3D20
John Hesselberth
john@frogpondpottery.com
=3D20
Randall Moody on mon 17 oct 11
Okay Taylor, so it would be more akin to pressing the "h" button and
expecting the keyboard to be giving you a "j". To be fair the teachers are
"asking" the kiln to do something. They are telling the kiln to do
something. Also, if they don't know how to properly use the equipment then
they have no business messing with it.
I'm just sayin'.
On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Taylor Hendrix wrot=
e:
> Actually, Randall,
>
> For that analogy to work, that would have to be a keyboard with a
> preset spelling for elephant as "elefunt". I would certainly be
> inclined to blame that keyboard for the horrible letter typed to the
> old tusker.
>
> To be fair, the poor school teachers seem to be asking the kiln to
> 'soft fire ramp' not 'obliterate on bisque'.
>
> I'm just saying.
>
>
> Taylor, in Rockport TX
> wirerabbit1 on Skype (-0600 UTC)
> http://wirerabbit.blogspot.com
> http://wirerabbitpots.blogspot.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/wirerabbit/
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Randall Moody
> wrote:
> > I feel the need to point out that it isn't the kiln that is at fault in
> this
> > instance. It isn't the kiln that is blowing up pots. The kiln is simply
> > doing the job that the "art teacher" is telling it to do. The fault for
> the
> ...
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 11:03 AM, John Post > >wrote:
> >
> ...
> >> It is a computer controlled kiln that was made by Evenheat with a
> >> Perfect Fire controller. This model kiln was shipped by Evenheat with
> >> a preset profile heating ramp of 400 degrees per hour.
> >>
> ...
>
--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
John Hesselberth on mon 17 oct 11
Hi Jim
When I was a working engineer we actually talked to the =3D
marketing/product managers to understand their view of the market =3D
need--imagine that. In fact we were usually one team. We would never =3D
have given a response "because we always have" but rather something like =
=3D
"because our customers demand it" or whatever the marketing logic =3D
was--we would have known that. We would also have worked into the =3D
instruction manual words to the effect that "although this wheel will go =
=3D
very fast, that speed is required for very few tasks. Most potters find =3D
a speed of xyz works better for throwing..."
I was reacting more to the "because we always have.." part of Mel's =3D
comment. Unfortunately I have known way too many similar engineers who =3D
thought were were pretty hot stuff, but who gave responses like that =3D
which were actually the best answer they could give. Don't get me =3D
started on some I the civilian engineers I ran into when I was in the =3D
Army many years ago.
Regards,
John
On Oct 16, 2011, at 9:29 PM, Jim Kasper wrote:
>=3D20
> John,
>=3D20
> I
> infer from your post that when you worked as an engineer, they allowed =
=3D
you
> to decide the marketing parameters. You lucky dog!!!
>=3D20
> It
> has been my experience that a lot of products go to market with =3D
options
> based on the gut feelings of product managers, or features demanded by =
=3D
the
> loudest customer ( or sales guy)
>=3D20
> Regards,
> Jim
> =3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> On Oct 15, 2011, at 7:29 PM, mel jacobson
> wrote:
>=3D20
>> i have asked the staff at brent why they set
> the
>> wheels so fast. they just say that is the way they
>=3D20
>> always have done it. i just shake my head.
>> great
> engineers, but not potters, or teachers of pots.
>=3D20
> I disagree.
> A great engineer knows what his/her product is used for and sets it up
> appropriately. These are poor engineers!
>=3D20
> Regards,
>=3D20
> John
>=3D20
>=3D20
John Hesselberth
http://www.masteringglazes.com
http://www.frogpondpottery.com
Taylor Hendrix on mon 17 oct 11
Actually, Randall,
For that analogy to work, that would have to be a keyboard with a
preset spelling for elephant as "elefunt". I would certainly be
inclined to blame that keyboard for the horrible letter typed to the
old tusker.
To be fair, the poor school teachers seem to be asking the kiln to
'soft fire ramp' not 'obliterate on bisque'.
I'm just saying.
Taylor, in Rockport TX
wirerabbit1 on Skype (-0600 UTC)
http://wirerabbit.blogspot.com
http://wirerabbitpots.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wirerabbit/
On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Randall Moody wr=
=3D
ote:
> I feel the need to point out that it isn't the kiln that is at fault in t=
=3D
his
> instance. It isn't the kiln that is blowing up pots. The kiln is simply
> doing the job that the "art teacher" is telling it to do. The fault for t=
=3D
he
...
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 11:03 AM, John Post wr=
=3D
ote:
>
...
>> It is a computer controlled kiln that was made by Evenheat with a
>> Perfect Fire controller. =3DC2=3DA0This model kiln was shipped by Evenhe=
at w=3D
ith
>> a preset profile heating ramp of 400 degrees per hour.
>>
...
Taylor Hendrix on tue 18 oct 11
I think your right Randall. I think those under-paid, over-worked,
hyper-regulated teachers should just scrap their clay portion of the
curriculum because some dork engineer programed all the defaults to
lightning-speed ramp times. I just can't understand why they don't
have the time to learn that the default settings of their kiln will
blow up their student's work. They only work 8 hours a day, after
all...at their business...which happens to be teaching children...art
stuff...like clay...
When a local teacher has problems with kilns etc. and they manage to
carve out a few seconds to call me, I give them the information they
need. THAT is how they learn how to use the equipment. I may actually
give them too much information, come to think of it.
And no, it is decidedly _not_ like pressing the h button and expecting
anything other than an h. You have missed my point entirely.
While we're at it, lets skip the red herring and move on to using the
kiln properly. I would define using the kiln properly as expecting a
function labeled "soft bisque" to NOT result in exploded bisque. If I
were a teacher, not an electrical engineer mind you, or Mel's
doppelganger even, I just might blow up a few kiln loads of pots
before I suspected that the makers of the controller had sabotaged the
presets to cause me all manner of nightmares.
Just to give you some local perspective, our local middle school art
teacher (potter for many years) has her students for 30 minutes a day
now. 12 groups, 30 minutes. Half a measly hour. No longer time to do
complicated projects (like clay work), so if this is something
repeated elsewhere our little debate just may be moot, if we wait long
enough.
I'm going to suggest we don't wait, and when a teacher in a public or
private school or a youth camp or city project actually takes their
valuable time to ask someone like us for help that we give it, no
preaching.
It's my prayer that our attitudes we exhibit here will be reflected
out there and that those attitudes will be of a generous nature. I've
been guilty of the opposite, I'm sure.
Taylor, in Rockport TX
wirerabbit1 on Skype (-0600 UTC)
http://wirerabbit.blogspot.com
http://wirerabbitpots.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wirerabbit/
On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Randall Moody wr=
ote:
> Okay Taylor, so it would be more akin to pressing the "h" button and
> expecting the keyboard to be giving you a "j". To be fair the teachers ar=
e
> "asking" the kiln to do something. They are telling the kiln to do
> something. Also, if they don't know how to properly use the equipment the=
n
> they have no business messing with it.
...
Randall Moody on tue 18 oct 11
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Taylor Hendrix wro=
te:
> I think your right Randall. I think those under-paid, over-worked,
> hyper-regulated teachers should just scrap their clay portion of the
> curriculum because some dork engineer programed all the defaults to
> lightning-speed ramp times. I just can't understand why they don't
> have the time to learn that the default settings of their kiln will
> blow up their student's work. They only work 8 hours a day, after
> all...at their business...which happens to be teaching children...art
> stuff...like clay...
>
>
>
sigh... Yeah Taylor that is exactly what I am saying. (I am rolling my eyes
at the moment.)
My point is that the kiln being told to do something by the teacher. It
isn't the kiln nor the engineers' fault that the person who is supposed to
be teaching doesn't know how to properly work the equipment. Simply put, if
you don't know how to work a piece of equipment, leave it alone until you d=
o
and don't blame the equipment for your lack of knowledge on its operation.
Since that point is so simple I will leave this as my last post on this.
--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
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