mel jacobson on tue 1 nov 11
i spent my entire life working with kids and art.
every month some magazine would come to the
department full of tricky art projects for teachers.
it reminded me of the `fake` sermons that were
sent to ministers so if they did not want to prepare
for sunday, they just read the prepared one from
the synod.
over a lifetime of teaching i never used one idea
from the magazines.
i got lots of ideas from cm. it was a professional
magazine. there was always an idea, a glaze color
or something that inspired me.
the berhends book of glazes came from cm. a great
little book, even to this day. (like early 60's.)
the best projects that kids can do are those that
real artists do.
make stuff, draw stuff, build stuff....`get em going
and turn em loose.`
it does lead me to believe that some art teachers are
not artists...have no clue. if they need cookie cutter,
step by step....well, they are behind the curve.
i worked with some of them over the years. sad creatures
that did not understand the process of doing art.
i was blessed to work with several incredible artists that
became my partners. verne was and still is at 82 a great
illustrator/block printer and cartoonist. kids loved him.
john was/is still at 84 a fine painter. i made clay.
we had a team that was incredible.
kids loved our department. they flocked to us.
all three/artists. and, of course in teaching, the big
S. support of each other.
a professor at the u of m called us `single medium hounds`.
she did not think we taught enough academic art and theory.
well, we did, but in the context of our program.
she did not know what end of a brush to paint with.
she played the guitar.
all theory. we won.
mel
i never entered my kids pots in contests. would not do it.
i used to tell them to make `pine cone trees` and cover them
with corn and enter those. i said...`we are so far ahead of contest
entrants that it would be embarrassing to win a trophy. like a
big ten football team playing our ninth grade team. `give it up,
and learn pride in what you do.`
from: minnetonka, mn
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
John Post on wed 2 nov 11
This past week I gave a lecture to my 4th through 6th grade students
about realistic art, abstract art and non-objective art. It was a
discussion with images on the television. They absolutely got it.
There was only one kid the entire week who asked "Why are we doing
this instead of making art?" My explanation to her was simple. If
you can talk about your work intelligently, you will make better
choices when you make it and this will make you a better artist.
My students loved the realistic optical illusions of sidewalk chalk
artists that I showed them. They were blown away by images of 3-D
holes in the pavement and creatures climbing out of them or of a Coke
bottle that was so realistic that it looked like a sculpture on the
street. When their class was over, they would ask me to back up the
slide show so I could show the images to their teacher. I had 9 to 12-
year-olds enjoying an art lecture. Imagine that.
During the lecture, I mentioned my mother-in-law who always made my
wife feel crappy about her art as a kid and adult by asking "What is
the meaning of this art work?" and then saying "Well I don't get it!"
I talked about how an artist would approach looking at another
artist's work compared to someone else who isn't visually aware like
my mother-in-law. The kids laughed at my impersonation of my mother-
in-law, but I used it as a tool about how to approach a work of art
with an open mind.
Today when I drew something on the board, one kid said "What's the
meaning of this? I don't get it!!!" I love the little smart-asses
when they tease me back in a kind-hearted way with perfect comedic
timing.
Next Tuesday my elementary art department is going to have a
"professional development" day. On the agenda, they would like to sit
and discuss what art words and terms we use with which grades so they
can put together a grade level curriculum guide. The goal of this
guide is probably so that they can issue a pretest and post test to
kids of art vocabulary each year so that we can "measure" their growth
to prove to the State of Michigan that the kids are learning about
art. These teachers are ready to jump on the measuring and test
taking band wagon when most of them haven't made a piece of art since
they left college.
I can hardly wait for them to send me their vocabulary list (I don't
go to these meetings as they have been know to dull the brain). Why
would I choose to limit what I discuss with my kids in the art room by
grade level? These teachers love to swap cutesy projects at these art
meetings. Like mel, I never use any tricky art project ideas. I
always have a direction I am traveling as a teacher and my ideas
spiral out from this direction all year long. To have a standard set
of vocabulary terms or little tricky projects wouldn't propel me and
the kids along a path and to me these tricky lessons seem more like a
dead end than an idea starter. Sure you have something to fill one
week, but then what are you going to do next week, and the week after
that?
This year I have been asking my upper elementary kids big open-ended
questions and posting some of their answers on my twitter account. A
bunch of them are following me and so they get to read what I and
their friends are tweeting. The first question was "What is art?"
That drew a bunch of interesting responses. Their current question is
"Can an artist make a perfect work of art? Why or why not?
I ask the kids these questions at the start of a class but tell them
that I don't want them to tell me their response right away. I want
them to go home, think about it, discuss it at the dinner table and
then tweet their answer to me or write it down and bring it into class
next week. I have a big scroll of paper hanging on a wall outside of
my art room that I glue their responses onto for the whole school to
read. I sometimes write questions to them on their responses. It's a
way to start a dialogue about art with little kids. Hardly anyone
asks kids questions that require them to think and internalize. What
I found out by doing this is who the deep thinkers in the classroom
are. Some kids even choose to argue both sides of a question,
something I find myself doing all the time.
Little kids love to make things, so that's what we do a lot of, the
art vocabulary and the big ideas sneak in the side door through jokes,
poems, stories and bad impersonations of my mother-in-law. The art
kids get the point, they're the deep thinkers.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
http://www.johnpost.us
Follow me on Twitter
https://twitter.com/UCSArtTeacher
On Nov 1, 2011, at 4:58 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
> she did not think we taught enough academic art and theory.
> well, we did, but in the context of our program.
jeanne wood on wed 2 nov 11
I teach in a school for children with behavioral problems (K-12). I am requ=
=3D
ired to teach Art History/Appreciation as well as hands-on art and, I actua=
=3D
lly like it. I find art history/appreciation fascinating, the challenge is =
=3D
to make it fascinating to the kids too.=3D20
We usually do this and art vocabulary by games like Jeopardy, they are comp=
=3D
etitive kids but I could tell they "got it" when they argued whether Rodin'=
=3D
s "Thinker" was an emotional sculpture or not to the point where they almos=
=3D
t got into a fight. I couldn't stop smiling, even though there were threats=
=3D
of violence.=3DA0=3D20
We've been learning about the composition of painting and sculpture by a ga=
=3D
me similar to charades, where one side poses like a famous painting and the=
=3D
other side has to guess what art piece it is. I thought they would have to=
=3D
do traditional charades for the abstract work, but sometimes they come up =
=3D
with amazing approaches. They love doing this.
Tomorrow, I think we are going to split into several teams and I'll have th=
=3D
e kids choose a painting from the textbook then debate why it is a better p=
=3D
ainting than the paintings the other teams choose. I just hope it doesn't e=
=3D
nd with fisticuffs. These kids are fighters.
~Jeanne W.
--- On Tue, 11/1/11, John Post wrote:
From: John Post
Subject: Re: tricky art projects
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 10:13 PM
This past week I gave a lecture to my 4th through 6th grade students
about realistic art, abstract art and non-objective art.=3DA0 It was a
discussion with images on the television.=3DA0 They absolutely got it.
There was only one kid the entire week who asked "Why are we doing
this instead of making art?"=3DA0 My explanation to her was simple.=3DA0 If
you can talk about your work intelligently, you will make better
choices when you make it and this will make you a better artist.
My students loved the realistic optical illusions of sidewalk chalk
artists that I showed them.=3DA0 They were blown away by images of 3-D
holes in the pavement and creatures climbing out of them or of a Coke
bottle that was so realistic that it looked like a sculpture on the
street.=3DA0 When their class was over, they would ask me to back up the
slide show so I could show the images to their teacher.=3DA0 I had 9 to 12-
year-olds enjoying an art lecture.=3DA0 Imagine that.
During the lecture, I mentioned my mother-in-law who always made my
wife feel crappy about her art as a kid and adult by asking "What is
the meaning of this art work?" and then saying "Well I don't get it!"
I talked about how an artist would approach looking at another
artist's work compared to someone else who isn't visually aware like
my mother-in-law.=3DA0 The kids laughed at my impersonation of my mother-
in-law, but I used it as a tool about how to approach a work of art
with an open mind.
Today when I drew something on the board, one kid said "What's the
meaning of this?=3DA0 I don't get it!!!"=3DA0 I love the little smart-asses
when they tease me back in a kind-hearted way with perfect comedic
timing.
Next Tuesday my elementary art department is going to have a
"professional development" day.=3DA0 On the agenda, they would like to sit
and discuss what art words and terms we use with which grades so they
can put together a grade level curriculum guide.=3DA0 The goal of this
guide is probably so that they can issue a pretest and post test to
kids of art vocabulary each year so that we can "measure" their growth
to prove to the State of Michigan that the kids are learning about
art.=3DA0 These teachers are ready to jump on the measuring and test
taking band wagon when most of them haven't made a piece of art since
they left college.
I can hardly wait for them to send me their vocabulary list (I don't
go to these meetings as they have been know to dull the brain).=3DA0 Why
would I choose to limit what I discuss with my kids in the art room by
grade level?=3DA0 These teachers love to swap cutesy projects at these art
meetings.=3DA0 Like mel, I never use any tricky art project ideas.=3DA0 I
always have a direction I am traveling as a teacher and my ideas
spiral out from this direction all year long.=3DA0 To have a standard set
of vocabulary terms or little tricky projects wouldn't propel me and
the kids along a path and to me these tricky lessons seem more like a
dead end than an idea starter.=3DA0 Sure you have something to fill one
week, but then what are you going to do next week, and the week after
that?
This year I have been asking my upper elementary kids big open-ended
questions and posting some of their answers on my twitter account.=3DA0 A
bunch of them are following me and so they get to read what I and
their friends are tweeting.=3DA0 The first question was "What is art?"
That drew a bunch of interesting responses.=3DA0 Their current question is
"Can an artist make a perfect work of art?=3DA0 Why or why not?
I ask the kids these questions at the start of a class but tell them
that I don't want them to tell me their response right away.=3DA0 I want
them to go home, think about it, discuss it at the dinner table and
then tweet their answer to me or write it down and bring it into class
next week.=3DA0 I have a big scroll of paper hanging on a wall outside of
my art room that I glue their responses onto for the whole school to
read.=3DA0 I sometimes write questions to them on their responses.=3DA0 It'=
s a
way to start a dialogue about art with little kids.=3DA0 Hardly anyone
asks kids questions that require them to think and internalize.=3DA0 What
I found out by doing this is who the deep thinkers in the classroom
are.=3DA0 Some kids even choose to argue both sides of a question,
something I find myself doing all the time.
Little kids love to make things, so that's what we do a lot of, the
art vocabulary and the big ideas sneak in the side door through jokes,
poems, stories and bad impersonations of my mother-in-law.=3DA0 The art
kids get the point, they're the deep thinkers.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
http://www.johnpost.us
Follow me on Twitter
https://twitter.com/UCSArtTeacher
On Nov 1, 2011, at 4:58 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
> she did not think we taught enough academic art and theory.
> well, we did, but in the context of our program.
Gayle Bair on wed 2 nov 11
John,
You are a Champion, Hero, Inspiration and someone who can bring tears to my
eyes just reading your posts.
You transcend all the budget cuts, moronic government standards,
educational politics and all the crap that is thrown your way.
You are one the shrinking number of national treasures that hold together
what little is left of our educational system.
THANK YOU!!!
Gayle - former school board director who fought for the students not
administrators benefits etc.
--
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island WA
Tucson AZ
gayle@claybair.com
www.claybair.com
On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:13 PM, John Post wrote=
:
> This past week I gave a lecture to my 4th through 6th grade students
> about realistic art, abstract art and non-objective art. It was a
> discussion with images on the television. They absolutely got it.
> There was only one kid the entire week who asked "Why are we doing
> this instead of making art?" My explanation to her was simple. If
> you can talk about your work intelligently, you will make better
> choices when you make it and this will make you a better artist.
>
> My students loved the realistic optical illusions of sidewalk chalk
> artists that I showed them. They were blown away by images of 3-D
> holes in the pavement and creatures climbing out of them or of a Coke
> bottle that was so realistic that it looked like a sculpture on the
> street. When their class was over, they would ask me to back up the
> slide show so I could show the images to their teacher. I had 9 to 12-
> year-olds enjoying an art lecture. Imagine that.
>
> During the lecture, I mentioned my mother-in-law who always made my
> wife feel crappy about her art as a kid and adult by asking "What is
> the meaning of this art work?" and then saying "Well I don't get it!"
> I talked about how an artist would approach looking at another
> artist's work compared to someone else who isn't visually aware like
> my mother-in-law. The kids laughed at my impersonation of my mother-
> in-law, but I used it as a tool about how to approach a work of art
> with an open mind.
>
> Today when I drew something on the board, one kid said "What's the
> meaning of this? I don't get it!!!" I love the little smart-asses
> when they tease me back in a kind-hearted way with perfect comedic
> timing.
>
> Next Tuesday my elementary art department is going to have a
> "professional development" day. On the agenda, they would like to sit
> and discuss what art words and terms we use with which grades so they
> can put together a grade level curriculum guide. The goal of this
> guide is probably so that they can issue a pretest and post test to
> kids of art vocabulary each year so that we can "measure" their growth
> to prove to the State of Michigan that the kids are learning about
> art. These teachers are ready to jump on the measuring and test
> taking band wagon when most of them haven't made a piece of art since
> they left college.
>
> I can hardly wait for them to send me their vocabulary list (I don't
> go to these meetings as they have been know to dull the brain). Why
> would I choose to limit what I discuss with my kids in the art room by
> grade level? These teachers love to swap cutesy projects at these art
> meetings. Like mel, I never use any tricky art project ideas. I
> always have a direction I am traveling as a teacher and my ideas
> spiral out from this direction all year long. To have a standard set
> of vocabulary terms or little tricky projects wouldn't propel me and
> the kids along a path and to me these tricky lessons seem more like a
> dead end than an idea starter. Sure you have something to fill one
> week, but then what are you going to do next week, and the week after
> that?
>
> This year I have been asking my upper elementary kids big open-ended
> questions and posting some of their answers on my twitter account. A
> bunch of them are following me and so they get to read what I and
> their friends are tweeting. The first question was "What is art?"
> That drew a bunch of interesting responses. Their current question is
> "Can an artist make a perfect work of art? Why or why not?
>
> I ask the kids these questions at the start of a class but tell them
> that I don't want them to tell me their response right away. I want
> them to go home, think about it, discuss it at the dinner table and
> then tweet their answer to me or write it down and bring it into class
> next week. I have a big scroll of paper hanging on a wall outside of
> my art room that I glue their responses onto for the whole school to
> read. I sometimes write questions to them on their responses. It's a
> way to start a dialogue about art with little kids. Hardly anyone
> asks kids questions that require them to think and internalize. What
> I found out by doing this is who the deep thinkers in the classroom
> are. Some kids even choose to argue both sides of a question,
> something I find myself doing all the time.
>
> Little kids love to make things, so that's what we do a lot of, the
> art vocabulary and the big ideas sneak in the side door through jokes,
> poems, stories and bad impersonations of my mother-in-law. The art
> kids get the point, they're the deep thinkers.
>
>
> John Post
> Sterling Heights, Michigan
>
> http://www.johnpost.us
>
> Follow me on Twitter
> https://twitter.com/**UCSArtTeacher
>
> On Nov 1, 2011, at 4:58 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
>
> she did not think we taught enough academic art and theory.
>> well, we did, but in the context of our program.
>>
>
Monica Wright on thu 3 nov 11
Oh my God...=3DA0 "data driven assesment".=3DA0 Have to love that, right?=
=3DA0 Th=3D
e idea is an honorable goal to attempt to achieve -making sure all kids are=
=3D
learning and growing.=3DA0 I have been given the task, along with 2 other =
te=3D
achers,=3DA0of coming up with a common formative and summative assesment to=
ol=3D
to use in order to show growth.=3DA0 I came up with one.=3DA0 A good one.=
=3DA0 I=3D
t fits with the Illinois State learning Standards, Goals, and Descriptors.=
=3D
=3DA0 It lines up with our district curriculum.=3DA0 The only problem was t=
hat =3D
with our "practice assessment" with third grade (Monet, painting) I forgot =
=3D
to go over the rubric with the kids ahead of time because i wanted to get t=
=3D
he kids working.=3DA0 They want to paint.=3DA0 I want to teach.=3DA0 No tim=
e for =3D
that crap.=3DA0 Oooops, matbe next time.
=3DA0
A local college professor came to my room to observe the "pre-student teach=
=3D
er" in action.=3DA0 Instead she witnessed me lecturing about Mondrian.=3DA0=
She=3D
=3DA0congratulated me after i was done lecturing.=3DA0 "Good job".=3DA0 Was=
nice =3D
to hear. =3DA0The kids love to hear information that is relevant and easy t=
o =3D
understand.=3DA0 They do not care where/when some dead guy was born/died.=
=3DA0 =3D
A name.=3DA0 That is all i give them (sometimes a place -Europe).=3DA0 That=
is =3D
all that matters to me.=3DA0 I am introducing information to them.=3DA0 By =
the =3D
time they walk out of my room they would have forgotten the dates/places an=
=3D
yway.=3DA0 Why bother?=3DA0 The kids want to make "stuff".=3DA0 I do not te=
st.=3DA0=3D
I do not quiz.=3DA0 Not right.=3DA0 Not wrong.=3DA0 Definately not the dir=
ection=3D
education is heading though.=3DA0 Test, Test, Test.=3DA0 Data, Data, Data.
=3DA0
--- On Tue, 11/1/11, John Post wrote:
From: John Post
Subject: Re: tricky art projects
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 11:13 PM
This past week I gave a lecture to my 4th through 6th grade students
about realistic art, abstract art and non-objective art.=3DA0 It was a
discussion with images on the television.=3DA0 They absolutely got it.
There was only one kid the entire week who asked "Why are we doing
this instead of making art?"=3DA0 My explanation to her was simple.=3DA0 If
you can talk about your work intelligently, you will make better
choices when you make it and this will make you a better artist.
My students loved the realistic optical illusions of sidewalk chalk
artists that I showed them.=3DA0 They were blown away by images of 3-D
holes in the pavement and creatures climbing out of them or of a Coke
bottle that was so realistic that it looked like a sculpture on the
street.=3DA0 When their class was over, they would ask me to back up the
slide show so I could show the images to their teacher.=3DA0 I had 9 to 12-
year-olds enjoying an art lecture.=3DA0 Imagine that.
During the lecture, I mentioned my mother-in-law who always made my
wife feel crappy about her art as a kid and adult by asking "What is
the meaning of this art work?" and then saying "Well I don't get it!"
I talked about how an artist would approach looking at another
artist's work compared to someone else who isn't visually aware like
my mother-in-law.=3DA0 The kids laughed at my impersonation of my mother-
in-law, but I used it as a tool about how to approach a work of art
with an open mind.
Today when I drew something on the board, one kid said "What's the
meaning of this?=3DA0 I don't get it!!!"=3DA0 I love the little smart-asses
when they tease me back in a kind-hearted way with perfect comedic
timing.
Next Tuesday my elementary art department is going to have a
"professional development" day.=3DA0 On the agenda, they would like to sit
and discuss what art words and terms we use with which grades so they
can put together a grade level curriculum guide.=3DA0 The goal of this
guide is probably so that they can issue a pretest and post test to
kids of art vocabulary each year so that we can "measure" their growth
to prove to the State of Michigan that the kids are learning about
art.=3DA0 These teachers are ready to jump on the measuring and test
taking band wagon when most of them haven't made a piece of art since
they left college.
I can hardly wait for them to send me their vocabulary list (I don't
go to these meetings as they have been know to dull the brain).=3DA0 Why
would I choose to limit what I discuss with my kids in the art room by
grade level?=3DA0 These teachers love to swap cutesy projects at these art
meetings.=3DA0 Like mel, I never use any tricky art project ideas.=3DA0 I
always have a direction I am traveling as a teacher and my ideas
spiral out from this direction all year long.=3DA0 To have a standard set
of vocabulary terms or little tricky projects wouldn't propel me and
the kids along a path and to me these tricky lessons seem more like a
dead end than an idea starter.=3DA0 Sure you have something to fill one
week, but then what are you going to do next week, and the week after
that?
This year I have been asking my upper elementary kids big open-ended
questions and posting some of their answers on my twitter account.=3DA0 A
bunch of them are following me and so they get to read what I and
their friends are tweeting.=3DA0 The first question was "What is art?"
That drew a bunch of interesting responses.=3DA0 Their current question is
"Can an artist make a perfect work of art?=3DA0 Why or why not?
I ask the kids these questions at the start of a class but tell them
that I don't want them to tell me their response right away.=3DA0 I want
them to go home, think about it, discuss it at the dinner table and
then tweet their answer to me or write it down and bring it into class
next week.=3DA0 I have a big scroll of paper hanging on a wall outside of
my art room that I glue their responses onto for the whole school to
read.=3DA0 I sometimes write questions to them on their responses.=3DA0 It'=
s a
way to start a dialogue about art with little kids.=3DA0 Hardly anyone
asks kids questions that require them to think and internalize.=3DA0 What
I found out by doing this is who the deep thinkers in the classroom
are.=3DA0 Some kids even choose to argue both sides of a question,
something I find myself doing all the time.
Little kids love to make things, so that's what we do a lot of, the
art vocabulary and the big ideas sneak in the side door through jokes,
poems, stories and bad impersonations of my mother-in-law.=3DA0 The art
kids get the point, they're the deep thinkers.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
http://www.johnpost.us
Follow me on Twitter
https://twitter.com/UCSArtTeacher
On Nov 1, 2011, at 4:58 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
> she did not think we taught enough academic art and theory.
> well, we did, but in the context of our program.
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