ivor and olive lewis on thu 17 nov 11
Without an environment rich in Hydrochloric Acid we would starve to death.
This compound is an essential aid to digestion and is released in the
digestive fluids in the human stomach after we swallow our food.
If those interested in the Chemistry of salt glazing would take the time an=
d
trouble to start trolling through Chemical Abstracts from the late 1890's
they will find a wealth of information. But the research peters out in the
1940's.
Our understanding or the Chemistry was published in German in the 1920's.
There are two flaws in the work. Regrettably the chemists who did this work
made an unwarranted assumption that information published in the 1880's in
Paris was valid. They compounded this flaw by failing to include a control
in their experimental design.
Regards,
Ivor Lewis,
REDHILL,
South Australia
Sojourner Forspam on thu 17 nov 11
Seriously???
What belongs in your stomach does not belong in your LUNGS.
This is some really bad reasoning - by these lights, the "natural" flora =
=3D
and
fauna of your bowels should also be welcome in your ocular membranes, in
your mouth, and in the tissues of your heart.
Ever had acid reflux? That's hydrochloric acid going where it doesn't
belong in your body. In tiny amounts. Breathe fumes with hydrochloric a=
=3D
cid
and it'll "digest" your lungs. The reason hydrochloric acid aids in
digestion is it dissolves almost ANYTHING. It is only by the constant
replenishing of protective membranes that hydrochloric acid doesn't disso=
=3D
lve
your stomach. In fact, when that mechanism fails, you get ulcers, which =
=3D
is
the hydrochloric acid in your stomach trying to digest your stomach. You=
=3D
can die of ulcers. Granted, it usually takes awhile. But that's in the
internal environment where hydrochloric acid actually belongs; it's much
worse when it gets where it doesn't belong.
I'm a little confused about all the hoo-hah about this subject. I don't
think anybody's saying salt glazing should be BANNED - I don't think I've=
=3D
seen that - but it shouldn't be done in an unvented shell of a kiln in
somebody's garage.
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, ivor and olive lewis wrote:
>
> Without an environment rich in Hydrochloric Acid we would starve to dea=
=3D
th.
> This compound is an essential aid to digestion and is released in the
> digestive fluids in the human stomach after we swallow our food.
ivor and olive lewis on sat 19 nov 11
Our belief that, at an elevated temperature, Sodium Chloride reacts with
superheated steam to generate Hydrogen Chloride and Sodium Hydroxide is
firmly rooted in a paper written by H.V Thompson and published by the
American Ceramic Society. See AmCerSoc Transactions, Vol 17, 1917-1918, pp
340-350.
Perhaps Mel, Vince and others who hold to this view might like to read
this article then make a critical assessment of the information..
I would draw attention to the opening paragraph which reads "...It is a
matter of common knowledge that salt is decomposed by water at high
temperature with the formation of sodium hydroxide and hydrochloric
acid...".On the following page it continues "...the amount of hydrogen
chloride produced by hydrolysis was far too small to be estimated with any
degree of accuracy..."
Regards,
Ivor Lewis,
REDHILL,
South Australia
Philip Poburka on sat 19 nov 11
Hi Ivor, Vince, Mel, all,
Any idea on how much Water would be present in the Ware being fired, or in
the Kiln in which it is being fired, by the time the Salt is being added?
I would imagine it would have to be something like "none" or extremely clos=
e
to none anyway.
And or, whether the Water necessary for the creation of the Sodium Hydroxid=
e
and Hydrochloric Acid would be what would be expected as something which
comes in with the ambient outside Air being drawn in, and, I suppose, as
would be bound to the Salt which has presumably been stored communication
with the outside Air as it were?
Which is to ask of course, how much Sodium Hydroxide and Hydrochloric Acid
could be formed, with this Water, given some particular size Kiln, a
prticular weight of decidedly dessicated Wares at the stage when the Salt i=
s
to be introduced, and, the total cubic feet of Air which a Salt firing draw=
s
in during the Salting phase, from a particular ambient Clime?
Of course an arid Clime vis a vie a humid clime, would represent the
extremes we may imagine to be possible, all else being equal, but within
those extremes, what sort of weight or volume of the Sodim Hydroxide and
Hydrochloric Acid would be reasonable to expect?
Phil
L v
----- Original Message -----
From: "ivor and olive lewis"
> Our belief that, at an elevated temperature, Sodium Chloride reacts with
> superheated steam to generate Hydrogen Chloride and Sodium Hydroxide is
> firmly rooted in a paper written by H.V Thompson and published by the
> American Ceramic Society. See AmCerSoc Transactions, Vol 17, 1917-1918, p=
p
> 340-350.
> Perhaps Mel, Vince and others who hold to this view might like to read
> this article then make a critical assessment of the information..
> I would draw attention to the opening paragraph which reads "...It is a
> matter of common knowledge that salt is decomposed by water at high
> temperature with the formation of sodium hydroxide and hydrochloric
> acid...".On the following page it continues "...the amount of hydrogen
> chloride produced by hydrolysis was far too small to be estimated with an=
y
> degree of accuracy..."
> Regards,
> Ivor Lewis,
> REDHILL,
> South Australia
Vince Pitelka on sat 19 nov 11
Philip Poburka wrote:
"Any idea on how much Water would be present in the Ware being fired, or in
the Kiln in which it is being fired, by the time the Salt is being added? =
I
would imagine it would have to be something like "none" or extremely close
to none anyway."
Hi Phil -
Whether or not there is water in the ware or the kiln itself isn't really
important, because water vapor is a major byproduct of the combustion of al=
l
hydrocarbon fuels. When the fuel dissociated to carbon and hydrogen, the
byproduct is carbon dioxide and water vapor, so there is plenty of water
vapor available for formation of hydrogen chloride and sodium hydroxide
gases.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Larry Kruzan on sat 19 nov 11
Atmospheric humidity pulled into the kiln as combustion air would be a
continuous source of "water" in the kiln in addition to the water that is
released by burning fuel of any kind. The amount and exact source is not
dependant on temp - only the state of the water. Steam, ice and liquid are
all water and steam can exist as such to a very high temperature before it
breaks down into its molecular components of hydrogen and oxygen. Vastly
higher temp than we fire a kiln to. Sorry I can't tell you the exact temp i=
t
can happen, but its close to plasma temps, as I recall.
Afraid I'm a bush league chemist (just 4 classes in college), so if I
miss-stated any of this, feel free to correct me. It has been a long time.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Philip Poburka
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 9:44 AM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Hydrochoric acid and the Salt Glaze Process
Hi Ivor, Vince, Mel, all,
Any idea on how much Water would be present in the Ware being fired, or in
the Kiln in which it is being fired, by the time the Salt is being added?
I would imagine it would have to be something like "none" or extremely clos=
e
to none anyway.
And or, whether the Water necessary for the creation of the Sodium Hydroxid=
e
and Hydrochloric Acid would be what would be expected as something which
comes in with the ambient outside Air being drawn in, and, I suppose, as
would be bound to the Salt which has presumably been stored communication
with the outside Air as it were?
Which is to ask of course, how much Sodium Hydroxide and Hydrochloric Acid
could be formed, with this Water, given some particular size Kiln, a
prticular weight of decidedly dessicated Wares at the stage when the Salt i=
s
to be introduced, and, the total cubic feet of Air which a Salt firing draw=
s
in during the Salting phase, from a particular ambient Clime?
Of course an arid Clime vis a vie a humid clime, would represent the
extremes we may imagine to be possible, all else being equal, but within
those extremes, what sort of weight or volume of the Sodim Hydroxide and
Hydrochloric Acid would be reasonable to expect?
Phil
L v
----- Original Message -----
From: "ivor and olive lewis"
> Our belief that, at an elevated temperature, Sodium Chloride reacts with
> superheated steam to generate Hydrogen Chloride and Sodium Hydroxide is
> firmly rooted in a paper written by H.V Thompson and published by the
> American Ceramic Society. See AmCerSoc Transactions, Vol 17, 1917-1918, p=
p
> 340-350.
> Perhaps Mel, Vince and others who hold to this view might like to read
> this article then make a critical assessment of the information..
> I would draw attention to the opening paragraph which reads "...It is a
> matter of common knowledge that salt is decomposed by water at high
> temperature with the formation of sodium hydroxide and hydrochloric
> acid...".On the following page it continues "...the amount of hydrogen
> chloride produced by hydrolysis was far too small to be estimated with an=
y
> degree of accuracy..."
> Regards,
> Ivor Lewis,
> REDHILL,
> South Australia
ivor and olive lewis on sun 20 nov 11
Dear Phil,
Imagine that the chemistry you describe is fictitious, that it is based on
an unwarranted assumption, a non sequitur and a material science just
emerging from the alchemical age.
Now, with an open mind, go back to first principles and think the scenario
through from what you start with to what you produce, what you can see and
what you can smell.
One of the earliest practical lesson I had in my high school career was
Chemistry with Mr (Poly) Stanford. It was to neutralise Hydrochloric acid
with a solution of Sodium hydroxide using litmus as an indicator of
neutrality. We then evaporated the resulting liquid to get a white
crystalline residue
As Her Rudolph Glauber wrote, "If you do not believe me build a fire and do
what I have done"
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis,
REDHILL,
South Australia
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