Thomas G. Sawyer, M.D., J.D. on wed 28 dec 11
Is there an easy way to convert slips to underglaze so they can be used on
bisque?
Tom Sawyer
Paul Herman on wed 28 dec 11
Tom,
The slips may work just as they are. If they shrink and crack too
much, you can substitute non-plastic materials for plastic ones, and
bring them into balance. You could replace some of the clay with
calcined clay, thereby reducing the wet to dry shrinkage. As a rule of
thumb, underglazes or engobes to be used on bisque would have less
than 50% plastic materials (clay) in the recipe.
If you have the old textbook by Daniel Rhodes, "Clay and Glazes for
the Potter" there are slip recipes in there, for application to wet
clay, dry clay, or bisque and it provides the slightly differing
formulas that might work.
Best wishes,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
www.greatbasinpottery.com/
On Dec 28, 2011, at 4:54 PM, Thomas G. Sawyer, M.D., J.D. wrote:
> Is there an easy way to convert slips to underglaze so they can be
> used on
> bisque?
>
>
>
> Tom Sawyer
Eleanora Eden on wed 28 dec 11
Hi Tom,
I think there is a nomenclature problem here. Slip, by definition, is a m=
ixture
that is applied to bisqueware, as contrasted with engobe, which has
more clay and is made to apply to unfired ware. Commercial underglazes
are fancy slips.
For instance, many people will use a white clay over unfired stoneware to
get a white surface. In this case the white clay is being used as an engob=
e.
Is your question rather how do you alter such an engobe so you can use
it over bisque?
In case this will help your research, here is a formula for making undergla=
ze
out of Mason stains. Maybe it indicates that to alter your engobe you can
add some 3124.
30 Frit 3124
30 EPK
30 Mason (or other brand) Stain (or combination of stains equalling 30=
%)
Best,
Eleanora
>Is there an easy way to convert slips to underglaze so they can be used on
>bisque?
>
>
>
>Tom Sawyer
--
Bellows Falls Vermont
www.eleanoraeden.com
William & Susan Schran User on wed 28 dec 11
On 12/28/11 7:54 PM, "Thomas G. Sawyer, M.D., J.D."
wrote:
> Is there an easy way to convert slips to underglaze so they can be used o=
n
> bisque?
The basic answer is yes, but it's perhaps not as easy as mixing a slip.
Vince Pitelka has a good handout about making underglazes:
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/syllabi-handouts/handouts/underglazes%20and=
%
20engobes.htm
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Paul Lewing on wed 28 dec 11
On Dec 28, 2011, at 4:54 PM, Thomas G. Sawyer, M.D., J.D. wrote:
Is there an easy way to convert slips to underglaze so they can be
used on
bisque?
It's going to be strictly a shrinkage issue. If your regular clay
slips work on bisque, fine. Try it and find out; they might. If they
flake off, they're shrinking to much, and you'll need to calcine all
or part of the clay in your slip. That should be the only change
you'd have to make.
Paul Lewing
www.paullewingtile.com
www.paullewingart.com
Jeanie Silver on thu 29 dec 11
I have a slip recipe that I got from the sculptor Judy Moonelis almost
thirty years ago. I,ve used it on seven or eight different claybodies-on
wet, leatherhard or dry greenware. Thinned slightly, it works well on
dampened bisque fired to cone o6 or 05. I,ve used it mostly in electric,
but also extensively with woodfiring. It works from cone 06-cone9/10.in
any atmosphere...I haven't used it in soda fire..but I,ve never soda
fired-might work. It takes mason stains well-I mix by volume and by
eye,then run tests for each batch. I start with 8 0z. slip to two heaping
T. of stain. Oxides are better added as percentage of a dry batch-between
1.5- 5%. I think of it as'the universal slip'...sometimes I add 10% soda
ash to get a vitrious engobe with a slight sheen-best with a mason stain.
If anyone is interested I will go out to the studio and get the recipe...
Tomorrow.
Jeanie in Pa.
William & Susan Schran User on thu 29 dec 11
On 12/28/11 8:58 PM, "Eleanora Eden" wrote:
> I think there is a nomenclature problem here. Slip, by definition, is a
> mixture
> that is applied to bisqueware, as contrasted with engobe, which has
> more clay and is made to apply to unfired ware. Commercial underglazes
> are fancy slips.
I always understood it was the other way round.
Slip is a liquid clay, applied to wet/leatherhard clay.
Engobe is a slip containing non clay ingredients that can be adjusted to fi=
t
wet, leatherhard, dry or bisqued clay.
Underglaze is an engobe material with added frit to fuse it and higher
amounts of colorant for brighter color.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Nancy Gallagher on thu 29 dec 11
On 12/28/11 8:58 PM, Eleanora Eden wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
> I think there is a nomenclature problem here. Slip, by definition, is a =
mixture
> that is applied to bisqueware, as contrasted with engobe, which has
> more clay and is made to apply to unfired ware. Commercial underglazes
> are fancy slips.
Thought it was the other way around?? Slip applied to greenware while a
vitreous engobe can go on greenware or bisqueware??
Nancy
Vince Pitelka on thu 29 dec 11
Eleanora Eden wrote:
"I think there is a nomenclature problem here. Slip, by definition, is a
mixture that is applied to bisqueware, as contrasted with engobe, which has
more clay and is made to apply to unfired ware. Commercial underglazes are
fancy slips."
Hi Eleanora -
I know that there is a lot of confusion on the use of these two terms, but =
I
do believe that the generally-accepted definitions are just the opposite of
what you suggest above. This is something I have been curious about for a
long time and have tried to pay attention to usage in books and online
dialogue. I was taught, and have always taught, that a slip is a simple
clay mixture - basically just a watered down claybody, and in most cases is
best used on damp greenware. That seems to be pretty widely accepted
whenever people refer to "slip-decoration," including slip-painting,
slip-trailing, feather-combing, sgraffito, slip-layering, etc. The term
"engobe" is a little more vague, but I have found it useful to use the term
in reference to modified slips that contain more non-plastics and are for
application to bone-dry greenware and to bisqueware. I am not saying that
this is the "correct" usage of the term, but it has served me well, and so
far no one has corrected me in my usage of the word "engobe." I'll be
interested to read what others have to say about this.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Rimas VisGirda on thu 29 dec 11
Eleanora Eden says: I think there is a nomenclature problem here.=3D0A=3D0A=
I'm =3D
thinking she's quite right... and we are going to venture into semantics he=
=3D
re...=3DA0 and it could get confusing...=3DA0 Here's my take.=3D0A=3D0A=3D0=
AClay: mat=3D
erial dug from the earth and used to make things, can also be liquified to =
=3D
make slip=3D0A=3D0ASlip: clay and water -that's all=3D0A=3D0AEngobe: clay p=
lus sele=3D
cted non-clay materials (to make it fuse and stick at selected temps) and w=
=3D
ater=3D0A=3D0AUnderglaze: engobe with oxides and stains and other stuff to =
aid =3D
brushability and help it dry hard before firing and harden at a desired tem=
=3D
p when fired in a ceramic oven (kiln)=3D0A=3D0A=3D0AClay-body: a material m=
ade up=3D
of various clays and other stuff to make it behave in the desired matter, =
=3D
plasticity, maturity, porosity, etc=3D0A=3D0ACasting slip: clay plus other =
stuf=3D
f (spars, frits, talc, etc) plus deflocculants and water, used with molds t=
=3D
o produce objects and formulated to mature at a desired temperature. Can al=
=3D
so be a clay-body liquefied and deflocculated...=3D0A=3D0A=3D0AAlso oxides =
and st=3D
ains can be added to clays, clay bodies, slips, casting slips, and engobes =
=3D
to alter the (fired) color=3D0A=3D0AThen... here's where it gets confusing,=
or =3D
does it?... If I take, say, B-Mix and add enough water to make a slurry to =
=3D
paint (decorate) my (brown) stoneware, I'm actually painting an engobe even=
=3D
though I've used B-Mix "clay" -because B-Mix is a clay-body and has other =
=3D
ingredients than clay, probably feldspar, flint, etc...=3D0A=3D0AThus, I po=
stul=3D
ate, that in today's ceramic spectrum slips are rarely used with the except=
=3D
ion of third world pottery producing countries where they still dig and use=
=3D
unadulterated local clays... So, back when I was teaching, I told my stude=
=3D
nts that we will "call" engobes slips even though we "know" that what we ar=
=3D
e using is not slip in the strict sense... Any opinions? -Rimas
Edouard Bastarache on thu 29 dec 11
Hello Vince,
in French there is only "engobe", so for my own use
I use "engobe argilleux" (slip engobe) for "slip"; and "engobe
chimique"(chemical engobe) for "engobe", since it contains some
raw ceramic chemicals to various extent.
Gis,
Edouard Bastarache
Spertesperantisto
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30058682@N00/
http://edouardbastarache.blogspot.com/
http://edouardbastaracheblogs2.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/edouard.bastarache
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: Slips to Underglaze
> Eleanora Eden wrote:
> "I think there is a nomenclature problem here. Slip, by definition, is a
> mixture that is applied to bisqueware, as contrasted with engobe, which
> has
> more clay and is made to apply to unfired ware. Commercial underglazes
> are
> fancy slips."
>
> Hi Eleanora -
> I know that there is a lot of confusion on the use of these two terms, bu=
t
> I
> do believe that the generally-accepted definitions are just the opposite
> of
> what you suggest above. This is something I have been curious about for =
a
> long time and have tried to pay attention to usage in books and online
> dialogue. I was taught, and have always taught, that a slip is a simple
> clay mixture - basically just a watered down claybody, and in most cases
> is
> best used on damp greenware. That seems to be pretty widely accepted
> whenever people refer to "slip-decoration," including slip-painting,
> slip-trailing, feather-combing, sgraffito, slip-layering, etc. The term
> "engobe" is a little more vague, but I have found it useful to use the
> term
> in reference to modified slips that contain more non-plastics and are for
> application to bone-dry greenware and to bisqueware. I am not saying tha=
t
> this is the "correct" usage of the term, but it has served me well, and s=
o
> far no one has corrected me in my usage of the word "engobe." I'll be
> interested to read what others have to say about this.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
>
ronroy@CA.INTER.NET on thu 29 dec 11
Hi Tom,
The accurate way to sub in calcined clays for plastic clays is to use
a glaze calculator.
Easy to calcine your own clay by the way.
Ball clays are better in slips because they are stronger as they dry.
I once tried a slip that was 95% bell dark ball clay and 5% iron that
worked on all three stages - wet, leather hard and bisque.
RR
Quoting "Thomas G. Sawyer, M.D., J.D." :
> Is there an easy way to convert slips to underglaze so they can be used o=
n
> bisque?
>
>
>
> Tom Sawyer
>
Snail Scott on thu 29 dec 11
On Dec 28, 2011, at 6:58 PM, Eleanora Eden wrote:
> ...Slip, by definition, is a mixture
> that is applied to bisqueware, as contrasted with engobe, which has
> more clay and is made to apply to unfired ware. Commercial underglazes
> are fancy slips.
I think you mis-spoke here! Slips are liquid clays.
With or without colorants, their substance is all
or nearly all clay, even if it's not the same clay as
the underlying body. They possess all the shrinkage
of the clay, plus the extra shrinkage due to the extra
water., and so they fit best on damp clay. They
generally fit acceptably on dry clay, as applying them
re-wets the surface layer and gets a good bond
between them.
Bisque-fred clay isn't less 'shrinky' than dry greenware,
(really - almost no shrinkage from the greenware state
to low/medium bisque), but it can't form that re-wetted
surface bond with the slip, so the slip, if applied any
thicker than a wash, will tend to crack off. The thicker
it is, the more readily the slip coating will crack off.
So, 'straight' slips won't do. Enter: engobes! Ta-daa!
'Engobe' is a big-tent term that includes almost all
the materials combos that aren't plain slip but aren't
melty enough to be true glazes. Lots of territory in
beween those extremes. Some engobes (but not all)
are designed to apply to bisque. Some are designed
to be semi-vitreous, or have texture, or any number
of other particular properties. One of the most
common uses of engobe is as an underglaze.
Clay (slip) may still be a major component of many
engobes, but engobes include other materials as
well. Often, they include materials which are less
plastic than clay. (Almost everything is less plastic
than clay!) Reduced plasticity allows the resulting
engobe to be applied to bisque surfaces without
cracking off as it dries.
Where I presently teach, we are forbidden to have a
full glaze workshop, and must buy in our glazes pre-
mixed. Even with these restrictions, I have worked
out a good range of surfaces. Using a pre-packaged
dry white clay body as a slip base, I put some of it in
a bisqued jar and fire some in every bisque firing,
thus calcining the clay and reducing its shrinkage
somewhat. It's not really sufficient, however, as there
is still the inevitable wet-to-dry shrinkage as the water
evaporates, and anything beyond about 30% calcined
clay makes for a difficult-to-apply slurry. My best result
(using only what I'm allowed to have on premises),
has been 50% clay, 25% calcined clay, and 25% of
our base clear glaze. Easy. Not perfect, but adequate.
I can't give my students the hands-on experience of
mixing glazes from raw materials, but all of them, by
the end of first semester, have experimented in mixing,
combining, and devising alternative application
methods for what we do have, and you would never
guess that all their results come from just one base
glaze and one clay body plus colorant oxides. The
biggest thing they learn is to just try things, and then
to learn from the result and re-apply that knowledge.
-Snail
Snail Scott on thu 29 dec 11
Just gotta add to my previous post:
All commercial jars of so-called 'underglaze' are
in fact engobes, but are described based on
recommended usage instead of composition.
It's like buying a jar marked 'spaghetti sauce'. It's
actually a jar of tomato-based puree with herbs and
veggie fragments and maybe meat, and knowing
that, you can choose to use it in all sorts of ways
that aren't spaghetti-related al all. Manufacturers
call it 'underglaze' for the sake of hobbyists who
need to be told what to do. If you are on this Clayart
list, you are presumably past that point, so free
your mind! Don't let some label tell you how to
use a material...think about what it IS, instead, and
see the wealth of other possible applications!
-Snail
p.s. I acknowledge Vince's past observation that the
term 'slip' also applies to a runny ceramic slurry
regardless of its materials: it describes consistency,
not composition. However, the slip/engobe distinction
is one that also needs making. Thus: one word, two
meanings...we can roll with that, right?
-S.
Snail Scott on thu 29 dec 11
On Dec 28, 2011, at 6:58 PM, Eleanora Eden wrote:
> ...Slip, by definition, is a mixture
> that is applied to bisqueware, as contrasted with engobe, which has
> more clay and is made to apply to unfired ware. Commercial underglazes
> are fancy slips.
I think you mis-spoke here! Slips are liquid clays.
With or without colorants, their substance is all
or nearly all clay, even if it's not the same clay as
the underlying body. They possess all the shrinkage
of the clay, plus the extra shrinkage due to the extra
water., and so they fit best on damp clay. They
generally fit acceptably on dry clay, as applying them
re-wets the surface layer and gets a good bond
between them.
Bisque-fred clay isn't less 'shrinky' than dry greenware,
(really - almost no shrinkage from the greenware state
to low/medium bisque), but it can't form that re-wetted
surface bond with the slip, so the slip, if applied any
thicker than a wash, will tend to crack off. The thicker
it is, the more readily the slip coating will crack off.
So, 'straight' slips won't do. Enter: engobes! Ta-daa!
'Engobe' is a big-tent term that includes almost all
the materials combos that aren't plain slip but aren't
melty enough to be true glazes. Lots of territory in
beween those extremes. Some engobes (but not all)
are designed to apply to bisque. Some are designed
to be semi-vitreous, or have texture, or any number
of other particular properties. One of the most
common uses of engobe is as an underglaze.
Clay (slip) may still be a major component of many
engobes, but engobes include other materials as
well. Often, they include materials which are less
plastic than clay. (Almost everything is less plastic
than clay!) Reduced plasticity allows the resulting
engobe to be applied to bisque surfaces without
cracking off as it dries.
Where I presently teach, we are forbidden to have a
full glaze workshop, and must buy in our glazes pre-
mixed. Even with these restrictions, I have worked
out a good range of surfaces. Using a pre-packaged
dry white clay body as a slip base, I put some of it in
a bisqued jar and fire some in every bisque firing,
thus calcining the clay and reducing its shrinkage
somewhat. It's not really sufficient, however, as there
is still the inevitable wet-to-dry shrinkage as the water
evaporates, and anything beyond about 30% calcined
clay makes for a difficult-to-apply slurry. My best result
(using only what I'm allowed to have on premises),
has been 50% clay, 25% calcined clay, and 25% of
our base clear glaze. Easy. Not perfect, but adequate.
I can't give my students the hands-on experience of
mixing glazes from raw materials, but all of them, by
the end of first semester, have experimented in mixing,
combining, and devising alternative application
methods for what we do have, and you would never
guess that all their results come from just one base
glaze and one clay body plus colorant oxides. The
biggest thing they learn is to just try things, and then
to learn from the result and re-apply that knowledge.
-Snail
Steve Mills on thu 29 dec 11
Perhaps this is another case of two countries separated by a common languag=
e=3D
:
For me in the UK, slip is liquid clay applied to greenware.=3D20
Engobe is a vitrious slip or slip glaze!
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Sent from my iPod
On 29 Dec 2011, at 16:13, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Eleanora Eden wrote:
> "I think there is a nomenclature problem here. Slip, by definition, is a
> mixture that is applied to bisqueware, as contrasted with engobe, which h=
a=3D
s
> more clay and is made to apply to unfired ware. Commercial underglazes a=
r=3D
e
> fancy slips."
>=3D20
> Hi Eleanora -
> I know that there is a lot of confusion on the use of these two terms, bu=
t=3D
I
> do believe that the generally-accepted definitions are just the opposite =
o=3D
f
> what you suggest above. This is something I have been curious about for =
a=3D
> long time and have tried to pay attention to usage in books and online
> dialogue. I was taught, and have always taught, that a slip is a simple
> clay mixture - basically just a watered down claybody, and in most cases =
i=3D
s
> best used on damp greenware. That seems to be pretty widely accepted
> whenever people refer to "slip-decoration," including slip-painting,
> slip-trailing, feather-combing, sgraffito, slip-layering, etc. The term
> "engobe" is a little more vague, but I have found it useful to use the te=
r=3D
m
> in reference to modified slips that contain more non-plastics and are for
> application to bone-dry greenware and to bisqueware. I am not saying tha=
t=3D
> this is the "correct" usage of the term, but it has served me well, and s=
o=3D
> far no one has corrected me in my usage of the word "engobe." I'll be
> interested to read what others have to say about this.
> - Vince
>=3D20
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
ivor and olive lewis on fri 30 dec 11
I would go along with the ideas put forward by Vince Pitelka. What he has
written fits in well with the teaching of Daniel Rhodes and the information
given in Hammer's "Dictionary of materials and techniques". Cooper and
Royle, in "Glazes for the Studio Potter " discriminates between Slips,
Engobs and Undergalze in that the first two are composed of clays which may
be coloured in various ways and the latter is a colouring agent applied to
the surface of either unfired or fired clay and adheres to the body of the
pot assisted by a small proportion of glaze.
In preparing undergalze media ( to fire to Orton Cone 8 ) I add about one
part in ten of my Felspar to the colouring agent, be that metal oxide,
carbonate or proprietary ceramic stain. This I liquefy with water containin=
g
glycerine (about 20%) to make the undergalze flow well from the brush and
gum acacia to ensure it adheres to the clay.
There may be a cultural hiatus in distinguishing between Slip and Engobe. A=
s
I recall, they were regarded as identical in the UK and partitioners in the
USA discriminate between the two. Perhaps Engobe is a term better used for
a white clay slip employed to give a white ground for future coloured
undergalze decoration after bisque firing.
Wishing all Clayart Colleagues a bountiful 2012.
Ivor Lewis,
REDHILL,
South Australia
Paul Herman on fri 30 dec 11
Jeanie,
Yes please, post the recipe.
Thanks,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
www.greatbasinpottery.com/
On Dec 29, 2011, at 8:52 PM, Jeanie Silver wrote:
> I have a slip recipe that I got from the sculptor Judy Moonelis
> almost
> thirty years ago. I,ve used it on seven or eight different
> claybodies-on
> wet, leatherhard or dry greenware. Thinned slightly, it works well on
> dampened bisque fired to cone o6 or 05. I,ve used it mostly in
> electric,
> but also extensively with woodfiring. It works from cone 06-
> cone9/10.in
> any atmosphere...I haven't used it in soda fire..but I,ve never soda
> fired-might work. It takes mason stains well-I mix by volume and by
> eye,then run tests for each batch. I start with 8 0z. slip to two
> heaping
> T. of stain. Oxides are better added as percentage of a dry batch-
> between
> 1.5- 5%. I think of it as'the universal slip'...sometimes I add 10%
> soda
> ash to get a vitrious engobe with a slight sheen-best with a mason
> stain.
> If anyone is interested I will go out to the studio and get the
> recipe...
> Tomorrow.
> Jeanie in Pa.
tony clennell on fri 30 dec 11
Jeanie: I too am interested thanx. tc
On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 8:09 AM, Paul Herman wr=
ote:
> Jeanie,
>
> Yes please, post the recipe.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul Herman
>
> Great Basin Pottery
> Doyle, California US
> www.greatbasinpottery.com/
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 29, 2011, at 8:52 PM, Jeanie Silver wrote:
>
> I have a slip recipe that I got from the sculptor Judy Moonelis
>> almost
>> thirty years ago. I,ve used it on seven or eight different
>> claybodies-on
>> wet, leatherhard or dry greenware. Thinned slightly, it works well on
>> dampened bisque fired to cone o6 or 05. I,ve used it mostly in
>> electric,
>> but also extensively with woodfiring. It works from cone 06-
>> cone9/10.in
>> any atmosphere...I haven't used it in soda fire..but I,ve never soda
>> fired-might work. It takes mason stains well-I mix by volume and by
>> eye,then run tests for each batch. I start with 8 0z. slip to two
>> heaping
>> T. of stain. Oxides are better added as percentage of a dry batch-
>> between
>> 1.5- 5%. I think of it as'the universal slip'...sometimes I add 10%
>> soda
>> ash to get a vitrious engobe with a slight sheen-best with a mason
>> stain.
>> If anyone is interested I will go out to the studio and get the
>> recipe...
>> Tomorrow.
>> Jeanie in Pa.
>>
>
David Todd on fri 30 dec 11
Hi Jeanie
I would be interested in that recipe.
David Todd
www.otterrafting.com
Thomas G. Sawyer, M.D., J.D. on sat 31 dec 11
I was really surprised and pleased to see the response to my question about
some easy method to convert a "slip" to something that could be used on
bisque. This promoted a lively discussion which surprised me because on the
one hand I was afraid it might be a rather stupid question.
Let me give a little background that prompted the question. I started using
"Mary's Porcelain" on my "Max White Paper Clay" several months ago
[Laguna/Axner Clays]. By the way this works just fine and gives a very
smooth surface to the paper clay creation. I then started using various
stains and was pleased that they worked surprisingly well. Like others, I
have used slips [clays mixed with water to create a slurry] at earlier time=
s
and have had flaking problems when used on bisque.
I am so pleased with results of Mary's Porcelain on greenware, I wondered i=
f
there was a simple formula to allow use on bisque. Like others I have used
combinations such as Bringle's Slip with reasonable results but I have neve=
r
achieved such viable colors as with the Mary's Porcelain. I was just
curious. I am delighted that others submitted "englobe" formulas that
apparently work across the spectrum of greenware-bisque pottery and I now
appreciate that Mary's Porcelain is an englobe. I'll certainly try some of
the slip formulas submitted and hope the vibrant quality of colors achieved
with Mary's Porcelain are retained. I realize that placing one "englobe" on
the top of another "englobe" in which color has been added can produce quit=
e
variable results. And I understand that more universal use could be achieve=
d
with calcinating (?) the "englobe" but I was just curious if there were a
simpler method.
By the way, I use dozens of Terra Sigs produced by ball milling Mary
Porcelain for 24+ hours with various colors. I do use this on bisque ware;
this works beautifully for shadings and subtle variations and I have had no
problems with flaking in the bisque fire. I generally use Tony Hansen
Glossy, Matt or translucents over the underglaze or Terra Sigs. Another nic=
e
topping for slips and Terra Sigs is a Glaze I got off Clayart years ago and
that rightly or wrongly I have named "Chris Wolf".
In addition, I have several colors with various combinations of stains with
"clayart" glazes such as Ron's Satin and Tony Hansen's Glazes. Using these
over colored slips can produce nice results.
Anyway I didn't wish to appear unappreciative with all the responses.
Thanking everyone.
Tom Sawyer
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Thomas G.
Sawyer, M.D., J.D.
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 7:55 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Slips to Underglaze
Is there an easy way to convert slips to underglaze so they can be used on
bisque?
Tom Sawyer
Edouard Bastarache on sun 1 jan 12
Hello all,
a few years ago, wanting to make slips, or "engobes argileux",
I decided to use two clays made by the same maker thinking he
was probably using many raw materials common to both.
I thot that way I would probably avoid many problems.
I used Plainsman H-435 (a light clay) and H-440 (a brown one).
So, I have 2 nice slips without having to make a lot of testing,
In the next step I colored the light burning one to have more
colored ones, I even obtained a copper red engobe under a clear glaze.
See the results here:
http://slipengobe.blogspot.com/
Gis,
Edouard Bastarache
Spertesperantisto
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30058682@N00/
http://edouardbastarache.blogspot.com/
http://smart2000.pagesperso-orange.fr/bloggs_edouard.htm
http://www.facebook.com/edouard.bastarache
Snail Scott on sun 1 jan 12
On Dec 31, 2011, at 6:16 PM, Thomas G. Sawyer, M.D., J.D. wrote:
> "englobe" formulas that apparently work...
Just a reminder, as I suspect some folks' spellcheckers
are unhelpful: it's 'engobe' (derived from French) rather
than 'englobe', which sounds better in English but won't
return many useful Google searches.
I'm not the spelling police, but spelling does count when
doing online searches
-Snail
ronroy@CA.INTER.NET on sun 1 jan 12
Hi Tom,
Using a porcelain body (or any throwing body) for a slip works OK but
you need to deflocculate it.
Take a cup of slip and start adding darvan 7 to it a drop at a time -
stir - let sit for 20 min - stir again - if it gets thinner you have
added enough darvan at that stage - keep track of the number of drops.
Now add powdered clay body till it gets thick again - then add more
darvan - when adding more darvan does not make the slip go thin thats
enough.
The deflocced slip has much less water than the original body and
therefore does not shrink as much and won't crack up when it dries.
If you have kept track of the amounts of darvan and powdered clay you
have added you can make up bigger batches by adding darvan and clay by
the same amounts all at once.
Quoting "Thomas G. Sawyer, M.D., J.D." :
> I was really surprised and pleased to see the response to my question abo=
ut
> some easy method to convert a "slip" to something that could be used on
> bisque. This promoted a lively discussion which surprised me because on t=
he
> one hand I was afraid it might be a rather stupid question.
>
> Let me give a little background that prompted the question. I started usi=
ng
> "Mary's Porcelain" on my "Max White Paper Clay" several months ago
> [Laguna/Axner Clays]. By the way this works just fine and gives a very
> smooth surface to the paper clay creation. I then started using various
> stains and was pleased that they worked surprisingly well. Like others, I
> have used slips [clays mixed with water to create a slurry] at earlier ti=
mes
> and have had flaking problems when used on bisque.
>
> I am so pleased with results of Mary's Porcelain on greenware, I wondered=
if
> there was a simple formula to allow use on bisque. Like others I have use=
d
> combinations such as Bringle's Slip with reasonable results but I have ne=
ver
> achieved such viable colors as with the Mary's Porcelain. I was just
> curious. I am delighted that others submitted "englobe" formulas that
> apparently work across the spectrum of greenware-bisque pottery and I now
> appreciate that Mary's Porcelain is an englobe. I'll certainly try some o=
f
> the slip formulas submitted and hope the vibrant quality of colors achiev=
ed
> with Mary's Porcelain are retained. I realize that placing one "englobe" =
on
> the top of another "englobe" in which color has been added can produce qu=
ite
> variable results. And I understand that more universal use could be achie=
ved
> with calcinating (?) the "englobe" but I was just curious if there were a
> simpler method.
>
> By the way, I use dozens of Terra Sigs produced by ball milling Mary
> Porcelain for 24+ hours with various colors. I do use this on bisque ware=
;
> this works beautifully for shadings and subtle variations and I have had =
no
> problems with flaking in the bisque fire. I generally use Tony Hansen
> Glossy, Matt or translucents over the underglaze or Terra Sigs. Another n=
ice
> topping for slips and Terra Sigs is a Glaze I got off Clayart years ago a=
nd
> that rightly or wrongly I have named "Chris Wolf".
>
> In addition, I have several colors with various combinations of stains wi=
th
> "clayart" glazes such as Ron's Satin and Tony Hansen's Glazes. Using thes=
e
> over colored slips can produce nice results.
>
> Anyway I didn't wish to appear unappreciative with all the responses.
> Thanking everyone.
>
> Tom Sawyer
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Thomas G.
> Sawyer, M.D., J.D.
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 7:55 PM
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Slips to Underglaze
>
> Is there an easy way to convert slips to underglaze so they can be used o=
n
> bisque?
>
>
>
> Tom Sawyer
>
Eleanora Eden on mon 2 jan 12
Hi Edouard and all,
Dare I comment again on this thread.....When I worked at ^10 I also
did this very successfully. Slaked the trimmings of my porcelain body
to brush on top of my stoneware body. Gave me a wonderful white
decorating surface on the stoneware platters.
Will be wondering forever if everybody in that college class had the
engobe and slip definitions confused or if it was just me.
Eleanora
>Hello all,
>
>a few years ago, wanting to make slips, or "engobes argileux",
>I decided to use two clays made by the same maker thinking he
>was probably using many raw materials common to both.
>I thot that way I would probably avoid many problems.
>I used Plainsman H-435 (a light clay) and H-440 (a brown one).
>So, I have 2 nice slips without having to make a lot of testing,
>In the next step I colored the light burning one to have more
>colored ones, I even obtained a copper red engobe under a clear glaze.
>
>See the results here:
>http://slipengobe.blogspot.com/
>
>Gis,
>
>Edouard Bastarache
>Spertesperantisto
>
>Sorel-Tracy
>Quebec
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/30058682@N00/
>http://edouardbastarache.blogspot.com/
>http://smart2000.pagesperso-orange.fr/bloggs_edouard.htm
>http://www.facebook.com/edouard.bastarache
--
Bellows Falls Vermont
www.eleanoraeden.com
May Luk on mon 2 jan 12
I use porcelain slip on stoneware (poor man's porcelain). After I down
my firing from cone 8 to cone 6. I changed the clay (just bmix but the
cone 5 version) and I still have all this grolleg left. So I put some
grolleg slip on my cone 6 bmix. The surface was very white, like some
old celebrity's teeth. The cobalt decal looked great on the white
surface. I thought "great, this is brilliant!" Then as I made more of
it, the slip started chipping off on the edge and the glaze surface
very gassy. I ruined about a kiln load's worth of work. It wasn't that
big of a deal, just slightly disappointed, I thought I stumbled upon
something easy with good result.
Now I use Frost porcelain (cone 6) slip on Bmix. The porcelain slip
surface gone back to a bit translucent and not as white. It's okay for
embossed work.
May
Brooklyn NY
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Eleanora Eden wrote:
> Hi Edouard and all,
>
> Dare I comment again on this thread.....When I worked at ^10 I also
> did this very successfully. =3DA0Slaked the trimmings of my porcelain bod=
y
> to brush on top of my stoneware body. =3DA0Gave me a wonderful white
> decorating surface on the stoneware platters."
>
> Eleanora
>
>
>
>
> --
> Bellows Falls Vermont
> www.eleanoraeden.com
--=3D20
http://www.artspan.org/artist/mayluk
http://www.ceramicsbrooklyn.com/
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