KATHI LESUEUR on mon 23 jan 12
On Jan 23, 2012, at 7:12 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
> i wish teachers of art gave as much attention to `how do we
> get to be an artist, rather than `hey kid, be a famous artist`.
> teach folks how to make stuff, how to get from point A to point B.
> when you give people the tools of the trade, and they know how
> to use them...art begins.>>
When I was in college many years ago, I was fortunate to have John =3D
Mills, an English sculptor, for one of my sculpture classes. His biggest =
=3D
lament about American art education was that it didn't teach students =3D
how to make art. It expected them to already be artists without the =3D
foundation of technique. As a result, many good art ideas failed because =
=3D
students didn't know how to make plaster that would set up properly, how =
=3D
to make molds that would survive the casting process, how to mix paints =3D
properly, how to develop and refine glazes so that a pot wasn't ruined. =
=3D
They were never graded on their ability to execute an idea. Students =3D
were graded on their "creativity", in other words, "I've never seen that =
=3D
before, how creative." Not good. Not well executed. Not well designed. =3D
Just "creative". Unfortunately, nothing has changed and lots of work I =3D
see in all fields of art, pottery included, suffers from the same lack. =
=3D
It is "good" because it is different.
KATHI LESUEUR
http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
mel jacobson on mon 23 jan 12
rant friday.
a fellow that is 82 was telling me how smart his grandkids are.
`why you should see them type into a smart phone, do internet
and all that stuff..those kids are way ahead of our generation.`
i said...`bullshit, can they do anything with their brain? like
can they pull and engine from a car, can they take out a
water heater, can they shoot a gun with skill?`
no, they are as dumb as bricks, just the same as we
where in 1950.
experience, acquired knowledge makes us smart.
not playing with an electronic toy.`
as i have said many times...`how much art and serious
art knowledge does an 18 year old freshman in college
know?` nothing. totally nothing. so they use a cell
phone or an ipad. what else do they know? nothing.
do they have potential....? of course they do. gobs of
potential, but potential is just that...it is not being an
artist.
it takes years to fill our brains with art theory, skill and
knowledge. as mattise said...`you will not be an artist
until you have a major `visual experience``....like one
that makes your blood run cold, or blow your head off.
how many adults on this list have ever had a total visual
experience that has stayed with you your entire life?
i have had one...and i still try and paint it after maybe
200 attempts. one or two complete success stories in
that mix.
i wish teachers of art gave as much attention to `how do we
get to be an artist, rather than `hey kid, be a famous artist`.
teach folks how to make stuff, how to get from point A to point B.
when you give people the tools of the trade, and they know how
to use them...art begins.
same for pots. but, even more so.
mel
from: minnetonka, mn
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
Gayle Bair on mon 23 jan 12
Sorry Mel I have to disagree with you on a couple of your points.
I am following my niece's first year at Tyler. She is working hands with
the tools no iPad or cell phone. Her professors are very tough on her and
she is loving it! She told me she had never worked/studied so hard in her
life for her art history class. She has such a very good eye and can think
out of the box. She is also open and takes a fresh approach to assignments.
One of her profs keeps giving her lower grades than she deserves while
giving students lesser work better grades even when he says her work is the
better. I know he is pushing her and am very proud of her barreling through
with great determination. The piece he praised but didn't give her an A for
was accepted in Tyler's Art student show. She has stepped up and is very
devoted and thriving. I don't think she is any different than the students
you are mentoring in terms of drive and determination to learn.
I saw my niece's potential when she was very little and am so excited to
see her coming into her own now. I am very excited to see where she takes
it.
The second point is your comment on total visual expereinces. I think many
of us have had it and just do not vocalize it. I had multiple ones in early
childhood & it is something I acknowledge daily if only to myself. Those
experiences opened my eyes to incredible beauty. It drives just about every
creative effort I have ever made. I don't need to try to paint/draw it
anymore but use the experience to create new work.
Gayle
Gayle Bair Pottery
gayle@claybair.com
www.claybair.com
On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 5:12 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
> rant friday.
> a fellow that is 82 was telling me how smart his grandkids are.
> `why you should see them type into a smart phone, do internet
> and all that stuff..those kids are way ahead of our generation.`
>
> i said...`bullshit, can they do anything with their brain? like
> can they pull and engine from a car, can they take out a
> water heater, can they shoot a gun with skill?`
> no, they are as dumb as bricks, just the same as we
> where in 1950.
> experience, acquired knowledge makes us smart.
> not playing with an electronic toy.`
>
> as i have said many times...`how much art and serious
> art knowledge does an 18 year old freshman in college
> know?` nothing. totally nothing. so they use a cell
> phone or an ipad. what else do they know? nothing.
> do they have potential....? of course they do. gobs of
> potential, but potential is just that...it is not being an
> artist.
>
> it takes years to fill our brains with art theory, skill and
> knowledge. as mattise said...`you will not be an artist
> until you have a major `visual experience``....like one
> that makes your blood run cold, or blow your head off.
>
> how many adults on this list have ever had a total visual
> experience that has stayed with you your entire life?
>
> i have had one...and i still try and paint it after maybe
> 200 attempts. one or two complete success stories in
> that mix.
>
> i wish teachers of art gave as much attention to `how do we
> get to be an artist, rather than `hey kid, be a famous artist`.
> teach folks how to make stuff, how to get from point A to point B.
> when you give people the tools of the trade, and they know how
> to use them...art begins.
>
> same for pots. but, even more so.
> mel
> from: minnetonka, mn
> website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
> clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
>
Lee on tue 24 jan 12
My kids all turned out pretty smart in practical ways. =3DA0 None of them
spent much time behind T.V., game box or computer screens.
My daughter is an RN, my oldest son is in RN school preparing
to go into a nurse practitioner program. Nursing is an area that
requires practical skills.
=3DA0They've passed that practicality on to their kids.
Actually, I see these generations as being capable of fixing the mess
we've created in the last 31 years. =3DA0 I see my job as "holding the
ramparts" until they can take over.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
gary navarre on tue 24 jan 12
I can see it now Lee, you're up there facing a charge of machine made white=
=3D
coffee cups with the sward of Art and the shield of Craft wearing a Kilt a=
=3D
nd a Samurai helmet with the Koto playing heavy metal.=3D0A=3D0A=3DC2=3DA0=
=3D0AGary N=3D
avarre=3D0ANavarre Pottery=3D0ANavarre Enterprises=3D0ANorway, Michigan, US=
A=3D0Aht=3D
tp://www.NavarrePottery.etsy.com=3D0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/GindaUP=3D0Ahtt=
p://=3D
public.fotki.com/GindaUP/=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A______________________________=
__=3D0A Fr=3D
om: Lee =3D0ATo: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG =3D0ASent=
: Tu=3D
esday, January 24, 2012 10:01 AM=3D0ASubject: Re: [Clayart] had another sma=
rt=3D
kid=3D0A =3D0AMy kids all turned out pretty smart in practical ways. =3DC2=
=3DA0 No=3D
ne of them=3D0Aspent much time behind T.V., game box or computer screens.=
=3D0A=3D
=3D0A=3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 My daughter is an RN, my =
oldest son is in R=3D
N school preparing=3D0Ato go into a nurse practitioner program.=3DC2=3DA0 =
Nursin=3D
g is an area that=3D0Arequires practical skills.=3D0A=3D0A=3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=
=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 =3D
=3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0 =3DC2=3DA0They've passed that practicality=
on to their kid=3D
s.=3D0A=3D0AActually, I see these generations as being capable of fixing th=
e me=3D
ss=3D0Awe've created in the last 31 years. =3DC2=3DA0 I see my job as "hold=
ing th=3D
e=3D0Aramparts" until they can take over.=3D0A=3D0A--=3D0A=3DC2=3DA0Lee Lov=
e in Minneap=3D
olis=3D0Ahttp://mingeisota.blogspot.com/=3D0A=3D0A=3DC2=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=
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t is, "The=3D0Alan=3D
d of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent=3D0Awithin =
it=3D
self." -- John O'Donohue
Dannon Rhudy on tue 24 jan 12
.........
When I was in college many years ago, I was fortunate to have John Mills, a=
n
English sculptor, for one of my sculpture classes. His biggest lament about
American art education was that it didn't teach students how to make art. I=
t
expected them to already be artists without the foundation of
technique.........
I must agree with Kathi and Mel on this matter. I always told my
students that I wanted them to be ABLE to create what they
could THINK of to create. They would not be able to do so
unless they learned some basics. Then I made the basics as
interesting as I could, and challenged relentlessly. I
seldom had students who did not respond. If they were
interested in clay, or drawing, or painting - I did my best
to help them know what they needed to know to execute their
ideas. Made my life easier, too. Creativity follows ability.
Talent grows with tenacity.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
John Post on tue 24 jan 12
This week we were glazing animals and a first grader told me that he
wished he had glaze tongs, glaze and brown clay at home. He thought
using the tongs was cool. I had to teach the little guys how to hold
them in one hand instead of gripping one side of each handle in a
separate hand.
While my students were glazing I had them draw images from the
television monitor as rough sketches for an upcoming painting. They
were drawing cows from different view points. After the front view
and the side view were done a boy said, "Please, tell me we are not
doing a rear view next Mr. Post."
What I was most proud of this day was that there was no complaining or
whining about how to draw the cows. Over the last year I taught the
kids to draw things by finding the big shapes first and then moving
towards adding the small shapes and details later. Many kids if left
to their own when it comes to drawing will start with an eyelash on a
person before even drawing the body shape on the page. It was nice to
see that they internalized the drawing skills I taught them.
Kids love tools but they so infrequently get to use them. They love
the wire tool I use to slice clay in my room. No matter how many
times they see me use it, they still think its cool. The same goes
for the extruder.
I picked up a bunch of serrated edge metal ribs for scoring slabs and
a few of the sixth grade girls were amazed that they got to use them.
I always teach the kids the right way and the wrong way to use the tool.
My biggest issue with tools is always the budget. I teach at two
schools, 800 kids a week and my total alloted budget from my school
district this year is $450. How much art can a kid make with 56
cents? So naturally I scrounge, make, and repurpose tools as well as
fundraise to keep the kids supplied in tools.
There are some really nice paintbrushes that I have been using with my
students. They come in a variety of sizes and colors and if you have
any young artists in your life and want to give them some brushes that
really hold up well here's a link to them...
http://cl.ly/111l1D1G2A0V270s283w
The reason my kids love these paintbrushes is because the variety of
sizes lets them work from large to small. I tell my students about
how my wife who is a painter has a basket with over 100 different
brushes in it. She has her favorites, but the variety of brushes lets
her match the right one for the job.
The other thing I like about these brushes is with Kindergarteners I
can tell them to use the big red brush for the background or the small
green brush for the pupils in the eyes and they get the appropriate
size brush for the job. The older kids select their own brushes, but
the little guys are the Tabula rasa and so I need to lay the
foundation down with them.
I have a vivid memory of my son drilling a hundred or so holes in a
board while I was building him a covered sandbox. He was two or three
at the time, but I remember him taking his drilling very seriously and
with a little battery powered drill he had a blast that afternoon.
This past summer we made customized game boys together and Co2 powered
Nerf Rocket Launchers. He earned enough money selling these things
online to purchase his own computer. My favorite part of it like
all things is that the learning and thinking snuck in the side door.
His goal was to make things to sell, my goal was to help him learn how
to use tools and to watch how he creatively solved problems that arose
along the way. Here's a link to his Nerf rocket launchers...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DpHMVwKXY22Y&feature=3Dplayer_embedded
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
http://www.johnpost.us
Follow me on Twitter
https://twitter.com/UCSArtTeacher
On Jan 24, 2012, at 1:36 PM, Dannon Rhudy wrote:
> .........
> When I was in college many years ago, I was fortunate to have John
> Mills, an
> English sculptor, for one of my sculpture classes. His biggest
> lament about
> American art education was that it didn't teach students how to make
> art. It
> expected them to already be artists without the foundation of
> technique.........
>
>
>
> I must agree with Kathi and Mel on this matter. I always told my
> students that I wanted them to be ABLE to create what they
> could THINK of to create. They would not be able to do so
> unless they learned some basics. Then I made the basics as
> interesting as I could, and challenged relentlessly. I
> seldom had students who did not respond. If they were
> interested in clay, or drawing, or painting - I did my best
> to help them know what they needed to know to execute their
> ideas. Made my life easier, too. Creativity follows ability.
> Talent grows with tenacity.
>
> regards
>
> Dannon Rhudy
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