Paul Herman on fri 4 may 12
Earl,
Have you seen the refractory element holders in the L&L kilns? I think
something like that is what you could do to make it work.
best,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
www.greatbasinpottery.com/
On May 4, 2012, at 1:04 PM, Url Krueger wrote:
> How would you mount/suspend/hang elements
> in an electric kiln with fiber insulation?
>
> I'm just considering various alternatives for a
> new kiln and can't seem to find much on this.
>
> My first thought is to insert a ceramic rod or
> tube through the coil, but then I can't see how
> I would mount the tube to a solid wall.
>
> Anybody seen this done or have ideas on how to do it?
>
> earl in Oregon
> Probably procrastinating rather than just
> getting on with it.
Url Krueger on fri 4 may 12
How would you mount/suspend/hang elements
in an electric kiln with fiber insulation?
I'm just considering various alternatives for a
new kiln and can't seem to find much on this.
My first thought is to insert a ceramic rod or
tube through the coil, but then I can't see how
I would mount the tube to a solid wall.
Anybody seen this done or have ideas on how to do it?
earl in Oregon
Probably procrastinating rather than just
getting on with it.
Steve Mills on sat 5 may 12
Hi Earl,
Donald Shelley invented and patented a system for lining fibre kilns with a=
h=3D
ard face of overlapping tiles, held in place by rectangular rods attached t=
o=3D
the casing.=3D20
For Electric versions he extended the rods to support a ceramic trough to h=
o=3D
ld the elements.=3D20
These were industrial kilns, but I see no reason why some inventive soul co=
u=3D
ldn't sort out something similar for private use.=3D20
Free Patents Online have PDFs available which illustrate the basics of his =
s=3D
ystem.=3D20
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my iPod
On 4 May 2012, at 21:04, Url Krueger wrote:
> How would you mount/suspend/hang elements
> in an electric kiln with fiber insulation?
>=3D20
> I'm just considering various alternatives for a
> new kiln and can't seem to find much on this.
>=3D20
> My first thought is to insert a ceramic rod or
> tube through the coil, but then I can't see how
> I would mount the tube to a solid wall.
>=3D20
> Anybody seen this done or have ideas on how to do it?
>=3D20
> earl in Oregon
> Probably procrastinating rather than just
> getting on with it.
Eric Ciup on sat 5 may 12
Why would you bother. It is unlikely that you will be firing higher than
cone 9/10 in electric and a k23 brick has much better insulating values
than fibre. The only advantage that fibre has over brick is it low mass
but seeing as how everybody is firing down to slow their cooling, this
advantage is debatable. My preferred wall for cone 9/10 electric or gas
is 2.5 inches of k23 brick backed by 3 to 5 inches of 1800 degree F
calcium silicate board/ Inswool. The vast majority of electric kilns are
built to fire to earthenware temps and so are woefully under insulated.
> How would you mount/suspend/hang elements
> in an electric kiln with fiber insulation?
Rimas VisGirda on mon 7 may 12
Earl writes:
My first thought is to insert a ceramic rod or
tube through the coil, but then I can't see how
I would mount the tube to a solid wall.
Anybody seen this done or have ideas on how to do it?
Yes, you can make a vertical "pillar" at the 4 corners of the kiln. Then ma=
ke a hole in the side of the pillar to accommodate one end of the tube and =
a slot in the opposite tube for the other end to "slide" into. In the photo=
the left hand pillar has the hole and the right hand pillar has the "slot"=
for the elements at the back. For the (right) side elements the back pilla=
r has the hole and the front pillar has the slot.
I know clayart doesn't accommodate pics, maybe Mel could post the attached =
on his clayart page...? -Rimas
Url Krueger on mon 7 may 12
Hey Rimas,
Your photo gave me a new idea.
Move next to a volcano and use the lava
to heat the kiln... Yah, right...
But I like your pillar idea.
Eric, you just corrected a misconception
on my part. I was under the assumption
that fiber was a better insulator than brick
but when I looked up the thermal
conductivity of both I see that brick is 0.24
while fiber is 0.30 W/m.K. However the
density of brick is about 4 times the density
of fiber which explains the slower cooling
rate of brick kilns.
Hank, It sounds to me like you're thinking
of a Mercedes kiln while I'm thinking more
along the line of a Chevy. But the SiC looks
like the ticket if you want to go to cone 10
or above and can afford them and the
power supply to match.
The whole point of this discussion is I am
out growing my little 18X18" $150 used
Olympic kiln and am trying to decide if I
want to go with electric or gas. I saw
Paragon's Dragon kiln at NCECA and
really like it but would have to start selling
pots in order to justify that kind of expense.
Same with a Kurt Wild design MFT.
How about if everybody just sent me $1
(big smile on my face) and then I could
have both.
earl in Oregon
just spinnin' the wheels and going nowhere.
"Just do it" Mel says.
Ben Morrison on mon 7 may 12
I've seen kilns made with electric elements fed through ceramic tubes which=
were pinned to the wall with Kanthal wire. I can't say it's an inexpensive=
way to build a fiber kiln, but I'm sure it works.
Url Krueger,
Have you used fiber before? One problem that some
people don't anticipate is that most of the fiber products shrink when
they are first fired. Because of this some people find building with
fiber difficult at best. A second problem is that when fiber is damaged
it's more difficult to repair than soft bricks. It does make for a great
fast fire kiln, but one must over come these and a couple other
obstacles before finding success with fiber. There are a couple fastener
methods used with fiber, the most common being ceramic button and
kanthal wire pushed through the fiber walls and attached to some metal
frame
This guy here seems to have segmented his elements, and
used a ceramic button and kanthal wire fastener. This seems like a
difficult way to build a kiln, but it's really huge so maybe it's easier
at this scale.
http://www.stoneware.net/stoneware/workshop/mykilnbig/mykilnbig.htm
Here's
a patent on a product that might give you some ideas on how fasteners
could be made. Of course US patents are protected so copying this
exactly would be against the law.
http://www.google.com/patents/US4418415
The
last link here is to the L&L site. I believe their product is
patented as well, but it can also give you ideas of how one might
construct their own element hangers that could be attached to a fiber
kiln. I've considered creating a button type of attachment for a hanger
that's similar to the L&L hanger.
http://www.hotkilns.com/
And here's something to think about as well on general kiln theory and desi=
gn.
http://ceramicartsdaily.org/firing-techniques/kiln-plans-and-diagrams/elect=
ric-kiln-firing-techniques-and-tips-inspiration-instruction-and-glaze-recip=
es-for-electric-ceramic-kilns-available-for-download/
Best of luck,
Ben
________________________________
From: Rimas VisGirda
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 8:09 AM
Subject: mounting electric elements in fiber kiln
Earl writes:
My first thought is to insert a ceramic rod or
tube through the coil, but then I can't see how
I would mount the tube to a solid wall.
Anybody seen this done or have ideas on how to do it?
Yes, you can make a vertical "pillar" at the 4 corners of the kiln. Then ma=
ke a hole in the side of the pillar to accommodate one end of the tube and =
a slot in the opposite tube for the other end to "slide" into. In the photo=
the left hand pillar has the hole and the right hand pillar has the "slot"=
for the elements at the back. For the (right) side elements the back pilla=
r has the hole and the front pillar has the slot.
I know clayart doesn't accommodate pics, maybe Mel could post the attached =
on his clayart page...? -Rimas
Hank Murrow on mon 7 may 12
On May 7, 2012, at 11:28 AM, Url Krueger wrote:
>=3D20
> Hank, It sounds to me like you're thinking
> of a Mercedes kiln while I'm thinking more
> along the line of a Chevy. But the SiC looks
> like the ticket if you want to go to cone 10
> or above and can afford them and the
> power supply to match.
Actually, Earl;
While I was thinking of the SiC GloBars for my Doorless Fiberkiln, my =3D
suggestion to you was to consider placing the rods vertically which =3D
support the elements for the fiber kiln (Chevvy) that you visualize. =3D
There is no reason in particular to have them horizontal save their =3D
tendency to sag. Sagging around vertical rods could be minimized with =3D
small projections on the rods. Vertical elements might even fire your =3D
small kiln more evenly. The fiber walls could be indented with a stout =3D
dowel to 'receive' the ords and their elements.
Cheers, Hank=3D
Steve Mills on tue 8 may 12
I've also got an 18 x 18 Olympic. I use it as a biscuit "Feeder" for my 9 c=
u=3D
be gas kiln at home.=3D20
Nice combo; the Olympic is basically self propelled with a controller & kil=
n=3D
sitter, and the gas one is big enough for small runs, but small enough to =
r=3D
un sets of tests without having to make a big load to fill it as well!
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my iPod
On 7 May 2012, at 19:28, Url Krueger wrote:
> Hey Rimas,
> Your photo gave me a new idea.
> Move next to a volcano and use the lava
> to heat the kiln... Yah, right...
> But I like your pillar idea.
>=3D20
> Eric, you just corrected a misconception
> on my part. I was under the assumption
> that fiber was a better insulator than brick
> but when I looked up the thermal
> conductivity of both I see that brick is 0.24
> while fiber is 0.30 W/m.K. However the
> density of brick is about 4 times the density
> of fiber which explains the slower cooling
> rate of brick kilns.
>=3D20
> Hank, It sounds to me like you're thinking
> of a Mercedes kiln while I'm thinking more
> along the line of a Chevy. But the SiC looks
> like the ticket if you want to go to cone 10
> or above and can afford them and the
> power supply to match.
>=3D20
>=3D20
> The whole point of this discussion is I am
> out growing my little 18X18" $150 used
> Olympic kiln and am trying to decide if I
> want to go with electric or gas. I saw
> Paragon's Dragon kiln at NCECA and
> really like it but would have to start selling
> pots in order to justify that kind of expense.
> Same with a Kurt Wild design MFT.
>=3D20
> How about if everybody just sent me $1
> (big smile on my face) and then I could
> have both.
>=3D20
> earl in Oregon
> just spinnin' the wheels and going nowhere.
> "Just do it" Mel says.
| |
|
