Ben Morrison on wed 9 may 12
I had come up with the same thing you did Steve. I have some 1800 degree bl=
=3D
anket that I was considering putting on the outside and then using a rigidi=
=3D
zer to seal it down. I figured I'd just wrap in up with some thin expanded =
=3D
metal to help keep it from getting damaged easily. Remounting the box on th=
=3D
e outside isn't a huge deal, but it's certainly a bit tricky. I've been thi=
=3D
nking about for too long now, maybe one of these days I'll do it.=3D0A=3D0A=
-Ben=3D
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A________________________________=3D0A From: Steve Slatin aystevsl=3D
at@YAHOO.COM>=3D0ATo: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG =3D0ASent: Wednesday, May 9,=
201=3D
2 1:48 PM=3D0ASubject: Re: Two electric kiln comments=3D0A =3D0AWell, a cou=
ple of=3D
things spring to mind -- one, the control box would be 'buried' which mean=
=3D
s overheating =3D0Acould be a problem.=3DA0 =3D0A=3DA0=3D0ATwo, the metal s=
hell of th=3D
e standard top-loader would have to be either removed or enclosed.=3DA0 If =
re=3D
moved,=3D0Athe entire thing is just so much loose brick; and if enclosed, t=
he=3D
metal will be probably subject to =3D0Asome rather rapid deterioration fro=
m =3D
the now-higher heat and possibly also exposure to some gasses.=3D0A=3DA0=3D=
0AThre=3D
e, you'd have to find a way to support the new jacket, so enlarging the flo=
=3D
or of the kiln would be=3D0Anecessary -- and you'd have to do it with suffi=
ci=3D
ent structural rigidity to support the weight of the jacket.=3D0A=3DA0=3D0A=
Four, =3D
the jacket'd need to be openable -- so you could get it over the irregulari=
=3D
ties in the exterior of the=3D0Akiln -- and closable with some kind of atta=
ch=3D
ment system that'd survive the heat of repeated firings.=3D0A=3DA0=3D0AFive=
, if y=3D
ou decided to do it, fibre would be easier to work with, but you might have=
=3D
structural deterioration.=3D0AInsulating board would be fine, but you'd ha=
ve=3D
to cut it and drill it (for control panel and peeps) and then=3D0Aattach a=
n=3D
ew shell that'd be bigger than the existing shell, so you'd also have to cu=
=3D
t, drill, and bend the=3D0Ametal.=3D0A=3DA0=3D0AThere are clearly easier ap=
proaches=3D
.=3DA0 For my smaller (ancient) 2 1/2 inch brick kiln, I even considered=3D=
0Acu=3D
tting board and attaching it with a strap and turbuckle arrangement on the =
=3D
outside, but I'd still need=3D0Ato reattach the control box.=3DA0 The cost,=
whi=3D
le possibly not prohibitive is at least significant, and I'd be =3D0Astuck =
wi=3D
th exposed, cut board (with dust issues, most likely).=3D0A=3DA0=3D0AThing =
is, I =3D
checked the pricing, and I can probably acquire a used kiln of better specs=
=3D
in good condition=3D0Afor less than the cost of upgrading the insulation.=
=3DA0=3D
It's like building a kiln -- yes, you can buy all the=3D0Abits and so on, =
bu=3D
t unless you can cut and groove brick really, really well you'll pay so muc=
=3D
h for=3D0Athose bits that you could buy a new kiln -- with better insulatin=
g =3D
properties -- for less.=3D0A=3DA0=3D0ABTW, Kanthal still sells that ribbon =
heatin=3D
g stuff.=3DA0 Their website (Kanthal.com) has all kinds of neat=3D0Athings,=
inc=3D
luding those wonderful Globar heating elements -- for which you need a vari=
=3D
able voltage=3D0Atransformer.=3DA0 Another piece of equipment I can't affor=
d ..=3D
.=3D0A=3DA0=3D0ABest wishes --=3D0A=3D0ASteve Slatin =3D0A=3D0A=3D0AN48.088=
6450=3D0AW123.1420=3D
482 =3D0A=3D0A=3D0A----- Original Message -----=3D0A=3D0AThere used to be a=
Kanthal "=3D
tape" or "ribbon"=3DA0 Not sure what name was, but have some.=3D0AThe Schei=
r el=3D
ectric kilns (ones one could build oneself, and The Big One was 18 x 18 x 1=
=3D
8, and I=3D0Asent John Hesselberth the plans (U of NH) I had for it) used t=
ho=3D
se.=3DA0 They were =3D0Anot coiled but zigzaged over nails on a board.=3D0A=
=3D0AThe=3D
y sat in grooves cut into soft brick with a drill bit that had been modifie=
=3D
d=3D0Aat operative end into a T shape.=3D0A=3D0AAnd then.=3D0A=3D0AWe often=
hear, in =3D
fact we know,=3DA0 US electric kilns by and large have =3D0Ano real insulat=
ion.=3D
=3DA0 And we know that there are super wonderful=3D0Aelectric kilns with pl=
enty=3D
of insulation, all built into steel frames, and=3D0Afront loaders.=3DA0 Th=
e fo=3D
lk who make and sell the latter love to call=3D0Athe other type "hobby kiln=
s"=3D
which is very inaccurate to say the least.=3D0AWhat kiln you buy is largel=
y =3D
a question of economics.=3D0A=3D0ABUT why has no one yet made a jacket, tha=
t ca=3D
n be bought separately=3D0Afrom the kiln and could be put around it?=3D0A=
=3D0AI n=3D
ever lower or raise my three ring electric kilns.=3DA0 I would think=3D0Aa =
jack=3D
et of sorts would work..=3D0A=3D0ASo why?=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0ALili=
Krakowski=3D0ABe =3D
of good courage
Lili Krakowski on wed 9 may 12
There used to be a Kanthal "tape" or "ribbon" Not sure what name was, =3D
but have some.
The Scheir electric kilns (ones one could build oneself, and The Big One =
=3D
was 18 x 18 x 18, and I
sent John Hesselberth the plans (U of NH) I had for it) used those. =3D
They were=3D20
not coiled but zigzaged over nails on a board.
They sat in grooves cut into soft brick with a drill bit that had been =3D
modified
at operative end into a T shape.
And then.
We often hear, in fact we know, US electric kilns by and large have=3D20
no real insulation. And we know that there are super wonderful
electric kilns with plenty of insulation, all built into steel frames, =3D
and
front loaders. The folk who make and sell the latter love to call
the other type "hobby kilns" which is very inaccurate to say the least.
What kiln you buy is largely a question of economics.
BUT why has no one yet made a jacket, that can be bought separately
from the kiln and could be put around it?
I never lower or raise my three ring electric kilns. I would think
a jacket of sorts would work..
So why?
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
Steve Slatin on wed 9 may 12
Well, a couple of things spring to mind -- one, the control box would be 'b=
=3D
uried' which means overheating =3D0Acould be a problem.=3DA0 =3D0A=3DA0=3D0=
ATwo, the =3D
metal shell of the standard top-loader would have to be either removed or e=
=3D
nclosed.=3DA0 If removed,=3D0Athe entire thing is just so much loose brick;=
and=3D
if enclosed, the metal will be probably subject to =3D0Asome rather rapid =
de=3D
terioration from the now-higher heat and possibly also exposure to some gas=
=3D
ses.=3D0A=3DA0=3D0AThree, you'd have to find a way to support the new jacke=
t, so =3D
enlarging the floor of the kiln would be=3D0Anecessary -- and you'd have to=
d=3D
o it with sufficient structural rigidity to support the weight of the jacke=
=3D
t.=3D0A=3DA0=3D0AFour, the jacket'd need to be openable -- so you could get=
it ov=3D
er the irregularities in the exterior of the=3D0Akiln -- and closable with =
so=3D
me kind of attachment system that'd survive the heat of repeated firings.=
=3D
=3D0A=3DA0=3D0AFive, if you decided to do it, fibre would be easier to work=
with,=3D
but you might have structural deterioration.=3D0AInsulating board would be=
f=3D
ine, but you'd have to cut it and drill it (for control panel and peeps) an=
=3D
d then=3D0Aattach a new shell that'd be bigger than the existing shell, so =
yo=3D
u'd also have to cut, drill, and bend the=3D0Ametal.=3D0A=3DA0=3D0AThere ar=
e clearl=3D
y easier approaches.=3DA0 For my smaller (ancient) 2 1/2 inch brick kiln, I=
e=3D
ven considered=3D0Acutting board and attaching it with a strap and turbuckl=
e =3D
arrangement on the outside, but I'd still need=3D0Ato reattach the control =
bo=3D
x.=3DA0 The cost, while possibly not prohibitive is at least significant, a=
nd=3D
I'd be =3D0Astuck with exposed, cut board (with dust issues, most likely).=
=3D
=3D0A=3DA0=3D0AThing is, I checked the pricing, and I can probably acquire =
a used=3D
kiln of better specs in good condition=3D0Afor less than the cost of upgra=
di=3D
ng the insulation.=3DA0 It's like building a kiln -- yes, you can buy all t=
he=3D
=3D0Abits and so on, but unless you can cut and groove brick really, really=
w=3D
ell you'll pay so much for=3D0Athose bits that you could buy a new kiln -- =
wi=3D
th better insulating properties -- for less.=3D0A=3DA0=3D0ABTW, Kanthal sti=
ll sel=3D
ls that ribbon heating stuff.=3DA0 Their website (Kanthal.com) has all kind=
s =3D
of neat=3D0Athings, including those wonderful Globar heating elements -- fo=
r =3D
which you need a variable voltage=3D0Atransformer.=3DA0 Another piece of eq=
uipm=3D
ent I can't afford ...=3D0A=3DA0=3D0ABest wishes --=3D0A=3D0ASteve Slatin =
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0AN4=3D
8.0886450=3D0AW123.1420482 =3D0A=3D0A=3D0A----- Original Message -----=3D0A=
=3D0AThere u=3D
sed to be a Kanthal "tape" or "ribbon"=3DA0 Not sure what name was, but hav=
e =3D
some.=3D0AThe Scheir electric kilns (ones one could build oneself, and The =
Bi=3D
g One was 18 x 18 x 18, and I=3D0Asent John Hesselberth the plans (U of NH)=
I=3D
had for it) used those.=3DA0 They were =3D0Anot coiled but zigzaged over n=
ails=3D
on a board.=3D0A=3D0AThey sat in grooves cut into soft brick with a drill =
bit =3D
that had been modified=3D0Aat operative end into a T shape.=3D0A=3D0AAnd th=
en.=3D0A=3D
=3D0AWe often hear, in fact we know,=3DA0 US electric kilns by and large ha=
ve =3D
=3D0Ano real insulation.=3DA0 And we know that there are super wonderful=3D=
0Aelec=3D
tric kilns with plenty of insulation, all built into steel frames, and=3D0A=
fr=3D
ont loaders.=3DA0 The folk who make and sell the latter love to call=3D0Ath=
e ot=3D
her type "hobby kilns" which is very inaccurate to say the least.=3D0AWhat =
ki=3D
ln you buy is largely a question of economics.=3D0A=3D0ABUT why has no one =
yet =3D
made a jacket, that can be bought separately=3D0Afrom the kiln and could be=
p=3D
ut around it?=3D0A=3D0AI never lower or raise my three ring electric kilns.=
=3DA0 =3D
I would think=3D0Aa jacket of sorts would work..=3D0A=3D0ASo why?=3D0A=3D0A=
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D
=3D0ALili Krakowski=3D0ABe of good courage=3D0A
Arnold Howard on thu 10 may 12
On 5/9/2012 3:48 PM, Steve Slatin wrote:
> Two, the metal shell of the standard top-loader would have to be
> either removed or enclosed. If removed, the entire thing is just so
> much loose brick; and if enclosed, the metal will be probably subject
> to some rather rapid deterioration from the now-higher heat and
> possibly also exposure to some gasses.
I agree with Steve. The stainless steel case will get about 100F hotter
than usual. Since the steel would be enclosed in insulation, it would
tend to warp and discolor.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Neil Estrick on thu 10 may 12
Modern top loading electric kilns are made to be easy to move and easy to=
=3D
=3D20
repair. This means no mortar between the bricks and sections that make ea=
=3D
ch=3D20
brick easily accessible. There are a couple of kilns on the market today=
=3D
that do=3D20
have an extra layer of fiber board insulation outside the bricks. The pro=
=3D
blem=3D20
with these kilns is that maintenance is a real pain. On the models I've r=
=3D
un into in=3D20
my repair work, the kiln is not sectional, and the outer jacket cannot be=
=3D
=3D20
tightened as the kiln ages. The whole thing becomes loose over time, and=3D=
20=3D
replacing a brick is a nightmare.
I have always felt that it was a waste of time, effort and money to try t=
=3D
o=3D20
insulate an electric kiln with some sort of outer wrapping. You're only g=
=3D
oing to=3D20
save a dollar or two at most with each firing if you do insulate it, beca=
=3D
use kilns=3D20
are cheap to fire to start with. So is it really worth all the effort and=
=3D
cost to save=3D20
maybe $200 year? Just make a couple extra pots....
Ben Morrison on thu 10 may 12
Well my only other idea was to use our capitalist system to improve kilns, =
=3D
e.g. stop purchasing them as a pottery community and request that they make=
=3D
more insulated kilns. Then we should be prepared to pay more for them beca=
=3D
use they would have twice the amount of brick.=3D0A=3D0A-Ben=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=
=3D0A_______=3D
_________________________=3D0A From: Ben Morrison =3D0=
ATo:=3D
Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG =3D0ASent: Wednesday, May 9, 2012 10:44 PM=3D0ASu=
bjec=3D
t: Re: Two electric kiln comments=3D0A =3D0AI had come up with the same thi=
ng y=3D
ou did Steve. I have some 1800 degree blanket that I was considering puttin=
=3D
g on the outside and then using a rigidizer to seal it down. I figured I'd =
=3D
just wrap in up with some thin expanded metal to help keep it from getting =
=3D
damaged easily. Remounting the box on the outside isn't a huge deal, but it=
=3D
's certainly a bit tricky. I've been thinking about for too long now, maybe=
=3D
one of these days I'll do it.=3D0A=3D0A-Ben=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A________________=
__________=3D
______=3D0AFrom: Steve Slatin =3D0ATo: Clayart@LSV.=
CERA=3D
MICS.ORG =3D0ASent: Wednesday, May 9, 2012 1:48 PM=3D0ASubject: Re: Two ele=
ctri=3D
c kiln comments=3D0A=3D0AWell, a couple of things spring to mind -- one, th=
e co=3D
ntrol box would be 'buried' which means overheating =3D0Acould be a problem=
.=3D
=3DA0 =3D0A=3DA0=3D0ATwo, the metal shell of the standard top-loader would =
have to =3D
be either removed or enclosed.=3DA0 If removed,=3D0Athe entire thing is jus=
t so=3D
much loose brick; and if enclosed, the metal will be probably subject to =
=3D
=3D0Asome rather rapid deterioration from the now-higher heat and possibly =
al=3D
so exposure to some gasses.=3D0A=3DA0=3D0AThree, you'd have to find a way t=
o supp=3D
ort the new jacket, so enlarging the floor of the kiln would be=3D0Anecessa=
ry=3D
-- and you'd have to do it with sufficient structural rigidity to support =
=3D
the weight of the jacket.=3D0A=3DA0=3D0AFour, the jacket'd need to be opena=
ble --=3D
so you could get it over the irregularities in the exterior of the=3D0Akil=
n =3D
-- and closable with some kind of attachment system that'd survive the heat=
=3D
of repeated firings.=3D0A=3DA0=3D0AFive, if you decided to do it, fibre wo=
uld be=3D
easier to work with, but you might have structural deterioration.=3D0AInsu=
la=3D
ting board would be fine, but you'd have to cut it and drill it (for contro=
=3D
l panel and peeps) and then=3D0Aattach a new shell that'd be bigger than th=
e =3D
existing shell, so you'd also have to cut, drill, and bend the=3D0Ametal.=
=3D0A=3D
=3DA0=3D0AThere are clearly easier approaches.=3DA0 For my smaller (ancient=
) 2 1/=3D
2 inch brick kiln, I even considered=3D0Acutting board and attaching it wit=
h =3D
a strap and turbuckle arrangement on the outside, but I'd still need=3D0Ato=
r=3D
eattach the control box.=3DA0 The cost, while possibly not prohibitive is a=
t =3D
least significant, and I'd be =3D0Astuck with exposed, cut board (with dust=
i=3D
ssues, most likely).=3D0A=3DA0=3D0AThing is, I checked the pricing, and I c=
an pro=3D
bably acquire a used kiln of better specs in good condition=3D0Afor less th=
an=3D
the cost of upgrading the insulation.=3DA0 It's like building a kiln -- ye=
s,=3D
you can buy all the=3D0Abits and so on, but unless you can cut and groove =
br=3D
ick really, really well you'll pay so much for=3D0Athose bits that you coul=
d =3D
buy a new kiln -- with better insulating properties -- for less.=3D0A=3DA0=
=3D0ABT=3D
W, Kanthal still sells that ribbon heating stuff.=3DA0 Their website (Kanth=
al=3D
.com) has all kinds of neat=3D0Athings, including those wonderful Globar he=
at=3D
ing elements -- for which you need a variable voltage=3D0Atransformer.=3DA0=
Ano=3D
ther piece of equipment I can't afford ...=3D0A=3DA0=3D0ABest wishes --=3D0=
A=3D0AStev=3D
e Slatin =3D0A=3D0A=3D0AN48.0886450=3D0AW123.1420482 =3D0A=3D0A=3D0A----- O=
riginal Messag=3D
e -----=3D0A=3D0AThere used to be a Kanthal "tape" or "ribbon"=3DA0 Not sur=
e what=3D
name was, but have some.=3D0AThe Scheir electric kilns (ones one could bui=
ld=3D
oneself, and The Big One was 18 x 18 x 18, and I=3D0Asent John Hesselberth=
t=3D
he plans (U of NH) I had for it) used those.=3DA0 They were =3D0Anot coiled=
but=3D
zigzaged over nails on a board.=3D0A=3D0AThey sat in grooves cut into soft=
bri=3D
ck with a drill bit that had been modified=3D0Aat operative end into a T sh=
ap=3D
e.=3D0A=3D0AAnd then.=3D0A=3D0AWe often hear, in fact we know,=3DA0 US elec=
tric kilns=3D
by and large have =3D0Ano real insulation.=3DA0 And we know that there are=
sup=3D
er wonderful=3D0Aelectric kilns with plenty of insulation, all built into s=
te=3D
el frames, and=3D0Afront loaders.=3DA0 The folk who make and sell the latte=
r lo=3D
ve to call=3D0Athe other type "hobby kilns" which is very inaccurate to say=
t=3D
he least.=3D0AWhat kiln you buy is largely a question of economics.=3D0A=3D=
0ABUT =3D
why has no one yet made a jacket, that can be bought separately=3D0Afrom th=
e =3D
kiln and could be put around it?=3D0A=3D0AI never lower or raise my three r=
ing =3D
electric kilns.=3DA0 I would think=3D0Aa jacket of sorts would work..=3D0A=
=3D0ASo w=3D
hy?=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0ALili Krakowski=3D0ABe of good courage
| |
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