Rick Mahaffey on thu 10 may 12
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 23:14:03 -0700
From: Ben Morrison
Subject: Saggar Firing
All,
Question, I'm new to saggar firing so I figured I'd ask before trying =3D
some things out. Has anyone ever tried to fire a piece up to temp and =3D
then saggar it at the lower temp afterwards? My guess is because the =3D
clay is vitrified that it would not work, but I figured I'd ask anyway.
Thanks,
Ben
----------------------------
Hi Ben,
I have done that. I fired my saggar clay (a stoneware) up to cone 10 =3D
then put it into a saggar with sawdust, salt and copper wire just like I =
=3D
do with a piece that is bisqued to 08 or 010.
Contrary to what Snail said the effects will not wipe off. The colors =3D
were much more subdued than with low temp bisque - mostly greys and =3D
blacks with some copper being "printed" on to the pot and some copper =3D
acting as a "resist" to the sawdust formed carbon colors. =3D20
I did this because I was entering two pieces in a show in Okayama Japan =3D
called Yakishime-ten. Yakishime is the term for any piece that is put =3D
into the kiln unglazed allowing the fire and usually ash to provide the =3D
color and glaze. My "conventional" saggar piece with pink, rose, bone =3D
and black colors was rejected but the high fire piece was accepted and =3D
not only that but it was in a shot used for the title page of the =3D
catalog with one of the jurors pointing at it.
Try it. The colors will be different, the surface feel will be =3D
different, not bad just different. Not only that but you piece may hold =
=3D
water unlike most saggar work.
I decided to do the high bisque and low finish firing because I learned =3D
a long time ago that the definition of China was bisque to the clay to =3D
maturity (usually cone 8 to 10) and apply a thick (usually lead) glaze =3D
and fire at lower temps (usually about cone 3). This is done because =3D
the work can be supported in sand filled saggars limiting warping and =3D
lessening other losses.
YMMV,
Rick=3D20=3D
Snail Scott on fri 11 may 12
On May 10, 2012, at 11:55 PM, Rick Mahaffey wrote:
> ...I fired my saggar clay (a stoneware) up to cone 10 then put it into =
=3D
a saggar with sawdust, salt and copper wire just like I do with a piece =3D
that is bisqued to 08 or 010...
Is your saggar clay actually vitrified at ^10, or still a bit=3D20
open? Seems to me that it's not the cone that counts,=3D20
but the tightness of the body. The color needs to penetrate=3D20
a bit to be permanent, and I find that very tight bodies do=3D20
not allow for more than a slight acquisition of color. There=3D20
are clays that even at ^10 still have the capacity for some=3D20
absorption.
-Snail
Ben Morrison on fri 11 may 12
So that's what I'm looking for, is something similar to what's going on her=
=3D
e in Shamai Gibsh's slides. That's a very nice site he's got too, wow! Than=
=3D
ks for sharing.=3D0A=3D0A-Ben=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A__________________________=
______=3D0A Fr=3D
om: James Freeman =3D0ATo: Clayart@LSV.CERAMI=
CS=3D
.ORG =3D0ASent: Friday, May 11, 2012 12:19 PM=3D0ASubject: Re: High temp bi=
sque=3D
then low temp saggar=3D0A =3D0AOn Fri, May 11, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Lee ders=3D
hins@gmail.com> wrote:=3D0A=3D0AMy friend, Shamai Gibsh, who I met at Mungy=
eong=3D
Chasabal (teabowl)=3D0Afestival last year does this.=3DA0 =3DA0 See his w=
ork at=3D
the link below:=3D0A=3D0Ahttp://www.shamaigibsh.com/#!__saggar-gallery=3D0=
A=3D0A=3D
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0ALee...=3D0A=3D0AYour friend's saggar work is amazing!=3DA0 T=
hanks for sh=3D
aring the link.=3D0A=3D0A...James=3D0A=3D0AJames Freeman=3D0A=3D0A"Talk sen=
se to a fool=3D
, and he calls you foolish."=3D0A-Euripides=3D0A=3D0Ahttp://www.jamesfreema=
nstudi=3D
o.com=3D0Ahttp://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/=3D0Ahttp://www.j=
ames=3D
freemanstudio.com/resources
Lee on fri 11 may 12
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:55 PM, Rick Mahaffey
wrote:
> I decided to do the high bisque and low finish firing because I learned a=
=3D
long time ago that the definition of China was bisque to the clay to matur=
=3D
ity (usually cone 8 to 10) and apply a thick (usually lead) glaze and fire =
=3D
at lower temps (usually about cone 3). =3DA0This is done because the work c=
an=3D
be supported in sand filled saggars limiting warping and lessening other l=
=3D
osses.
The other alternative is a higher temp final firing.
My friend, Shamai Gibsh, who I met at Mungyeong Chasabal (teabowl)
festival last year does this. See his work at the link below:
http://www.shamaigibsh.com/#!__saggar-gallery
I'll make whisked tea in a bowl of his today! This photo doesn't do
it justice! (Shamai lives in Israel and is at the Harvard ceramic
studios every summer.) He saggers, using various pine needles he
collects from various places in the Holyland:
http://tinyurl.com/6mk2zcm
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee on fri 11 may 12
On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Snail Scott w=
=3D
rote:
. There
> are clays that even at ^10 still have the capacity for some
> absorption.
Mogusa (shino clay) is not vitrified at cone 13 (I've fired it twice
to 13 and it is still porous.) Mogusa (mugwort) is also the name of
moxibustion incense.
Tea masters liked this soft quality because the unvitrified clay
had qualities similar to raku bowls: the whisk against the soft clay
has a similar sound in both shino and raku, as well as similar
insulating qualities.
Originally, shino, like tenmoku, is not just a glaze, but also a
claybody, a form, and making and firing technique.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Taylor Hendrix on fri 11 may 12
Ben,
I do not fire high temp before I so my low temp saggaring, but I have
experienced the subdued smoking effects on several of my refired pots. I am
making the assumption that my subsequent refiring tightened up the clay
body and allowed less of my saggar combustibles to penetrate the clay. I'm
remembering a particularly nice rebisqued saggar pot I burned with fresh
bamboo leaves. All grays, nice.
Taylor, in Rockport TX
wirerabbit1 on Skype (-0600 UTC)
http://wirerabbit.blogspot.com
http://wirerabbitpots.blogspot.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wirerabbit/
https://youtube.com/thewirerabbit
James Freeman on fri 11 may 12
On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Lee wrote:
My friend, Shamai Gibsh, who I met at Mungyeong Chasabal (teabowl)
festival last year does this. See his work at the link below:
http://www.shamaigibsh.com/#!__saggar-gallery
Lee...
Your friend's saggar work is amazing! Thanks for sharing the link.
...James
James Freeman
"Talk sense to a fool, and he calls you foolish."
-Euripides
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
J Motzkin on sat 12 may 12
The only way I have gotten or seen penetrated carbon at cone 10 saggar is
if the pot and saggar with combustibles go to the high temp. Byron temple
did it.
Low fire saggar after cone 10 only works for Mahaffey. Not for the plebes.
So it goes.
Judy
www.motzkin.com
From: Snail Scott Subject: Re: High temp
bisque then low temp saggarOn May 10, 2012, at 11:55 PM, Rick Mahaffey
wrote:> ...I fired my saggar clay (a stoneware) up to cone 10 then put it
into =3Da saggar with sawdust, salt and copper wire just like I do with a
piece =3Dthat is bisqued to 08 or 010...Is your saggar clay actually
vitrified at ^10, or still a bit=3D20open? Seems to me that it's not the
cone that counts,=3D20but the tightness of the body. The color needs to
penetrate=3D20a bit to be permanent, and I find that very tight bodies
do=3D20not allow for more than a slight acquisition of color. There=3D20are
clays that even at ^10 still have the capacity for
some=3D20absorption. -Snail
Lee on sun 13 may 12
On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Ben Morrison wrote:
> So that's what I'm looking for, is something similar to what's going on h=
=3D
ere in Shamai Gibsh's slides. That's a very nice site he's got too, wow! Th=
=3D
anks for sharing.
http://www.shamaigibsh.com/#!__saggar-gallery
It is! Shamai collects pine needles from around the Holy Land (he is
in Israel) to put in his saggers. I traded for one of his lovely tea
bowls.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee on sun 13 may 12
On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 1:46 AM, J Motzkin wrote:
> The only way I have =3DA0gotten or seen penetrated carbon at cone 10 sagg=
ar=3D
is
> if the pot and saggar with combustibles go to the high temp. Byron temple
> did it.
My friend Shamai explained to me that you get the undesirable black
(from his perspective) at his higher temps in oxidation. He has to
keep steady reduction to keep the colors. See here:
http://www.shamaigibsh.com/#!__saggar-gallery
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
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