mel jacobson on thu 7 jun 12
here is a note i just got from cindy hoskisson. cindy and her husband
don are noted potters and teachers in oregon.
Mel,
not being a part of the Clay Art group, I don't know if I can ask them a qu=
estion... but I am curious about the feeling out there and if I am missing =
something... so I'm throwing it out to you....
Don and I took our work to a Gallery that was just opening last Oct... at t=
he time they were connected to another gallery we work with... they have re=
cently broken that relationship, and are setting out on their own... As par=
t of this change they are going to charge each Artist a $200.00 a year "Gal=
lery Support Fee" on top of the 45% commission.
Don and I are Not paying it, and will be going over to pick up our work soo=
n. But my question is, is this a new direction that galleries are going an=
d I'm just out of step? None of the 7 or 8 other galleries that we work wi=
th right now charge this kind of fee and no gallery that we have ever dealt=
with has ever asked us to pay to keep their doors open! But maybe I'm mis=
sing something?
We pay and annual fee to the Salem Art Assoc to be members, but that is $7=
5.00 for our family and it goes towards education and Art for the Community=
.... There is one other gallery that charges a $90.00 fee as a website fee.=
... but they are the only gallery we work with that sell from their website=
and that $90.. covers both of us....
I think this kind of thing starts a bad precident, and provides a way for t=
he gallery to make $$ without being hungry to sell the work!!
But as I said, I would really like to know if this is a new trend and I'm j=
ust out of step?
Thanks,
Cindy
from: minnetonka, mn
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
David Woof on thu 7 jun 12
Hi Cindy=3D2C
=3D20
Good to hear from you. You and Don already have it figured out and I agree.
=3D20
If a Gallery can't sell the work they represent fast enough to pay the bill=
=3D
s=3D2C then I am in the wrong gallery. I have no reason to be paying them t=
o =3D
store my work for me=3D2C and it is not getting viable exposure while sitti=
ng=3D
there.
It has been my past observation that galleries that try this support fee id=
=3D
ea usually wind up supported by hungry folks needing and willing to pay for=
=3D
exposure and so the gallery becomes a second line gallery. These galleries=
=3D
will then fail to build an upscale reputation with clients=3D2C purchasing=
a=3D
gents and upscale interior designers=3D2C and the vacationing tourists with=
b=3D
igger bucks and a refined and demanding taste may walk in and walk out of t=
=3D
hese places if they stop in at all.
=3D20
I have also watched (from afar) several Galleries that try taking a smaller=
=3D
up front percentage and then require that each artist sit the gallery for =
=3D
a day each week=3D2C etc. This also does not work!!! Some have tried combin=
in=3D
g this idea with the gallery fee.
Few creatives=3D2C driven to hands on studio work=3D2C are also successful =
at s=3D
ales. That is why we take our stuff to art literate business people who are=
=3D
. We don't want to waste a precious day pretending to be gallery staff.=3D2=
0
=3D20
On the other hand=3D3B $200.00 US per year doesn't raise the actual commiss=
io=3D
n percentage by much if they sell enough of your work in a years time.=3D20
However if they sell enough there is no need for support=3D2C so we have co=
me=3D
full circle as to why do it at all.=3D20
=3D20
Anyone starting a new business must consider and secure a source of start u=
=3D
p capital. If they presented the $200.00 as a start up venture loan to be r=
=3D
epaid=3D2C or as a percentage buy in with eventual dividend payments if the=
y =3D
make it=3D3B and if after considering the risk=3D2C you invested on that ba=
sis=3D
=3D2C...well....that is a different animal.
=3D20
So I boycott the gallery support concept.
It seems to cheapen the profession on several fronts.
=3D20
I too=3D2C would like to hear what others on Clayart have to think and say =
on=3D
this.
=3D20
Thanks for bringing this to the Clayart table.
=3D20
David Woof
__________________________________________________________________________=
=3D
=3D20
10. note about gallery/cost
Posted by: "mel jacobson" melpots2@VISI.COM
Date: Thu Jun 7=3D2C 2012 8:46 am ((PDT))
here is a note i just got from cindy hoskisson. cindy and her husbanddon ar=
=3D
e noted potters and teachers in oregon.
Mel=3D2Cnot being a part of the Clay Art group=3D2C I don't know if I can a=
sk t=3D
hem a question... but I am curious about the feeling out there and if I am =
=3D
missing something... so I'm throwing it out to you.... Don and I took our w=
=3D
ork to a Gallery that was just opening last Oct... at the time they were co=
=3D
nnected to another gallery we work with... they have recently broken that r=
=3D
elationship=3D2C and are setting out on their own... As part of this change=
t=3D
hey are going to charge each Artist a $200.00 a year "Gallery Support Fee" =
=3D
on top of the 45% commission. Don and I are Not paying it=3D2C and will be =
go=3D
ing over to pick up our work soon. But my question is=3D2C is this a new di=
re=3D
ction that galleries are going and I'm just out of step? None of the 7 or 8=
=3D
other galleries that we work with right now charge this kind of fee and no=
=3D
gallery that we have ever dealt with has ever asked us to pay to keep thei=
=3D
r doors open! But maybe I'm missing something? We pay and annual fee to the=
=3D
Salem Art Assoc to be members=3D2C but that is $75.00 for our family and i=
t =3D
goes towards education and Art for the Community.... There is one other gal=
=3D
lery that charges a $90.00 fee as a website fee.... but they are the only g=
=3D
allery we work with that sell from their website and that $90.. covers both=
=3D
of us.... I think this kind of thing starts a bad precident=3D2C and provi=
de=3D
s a way for the gallery to make $$ without being hungry to sell the work!! =
=3D
But as I said=3D2C I would really like to know if this is a new trend and I=
'm=3D
just out of step?=3D20
Thanks=3D2C
Cindy
=3D20
from: minnetonka=3D2C mnwebsite: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart link:=
h=3D
ttp://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html =
=3D
Kathi on thu 7 jun 12
I've been wholesaling my work for years and never heard of such a fee. If y=
o=3D
u feel that you can find other outlets for your work, I'd refuse to pay the=
f=3D
ee and take my work elsewhere. if you are consigning your work (something I=
r=3D
arely do unless I know the owners very well), 45 percent is, again, higher =
t=3D
han I've every allowed. Forty is my max with one third being the usual.
Banks, UPS, and other businesses are tacking on fees to increase their bott=
o=3D
m line. Not surprising a gallery is trying to do it, also. The IPAD is revo=
l=3D
utionizing the credit card business with SQUARE technology for taking credi=
t=3D
card. A straight fee of 2.75 percent. No other fees The banks will either =
c=3D
ut their fees and rates or lose credit card business completely.
Kathi LeSueur
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 7, 2012, at 11:42 AM, mel jacobson wrote:
> here is a note i just got from cindy hoskisson. cindy and her husband
> don are noted potters and teachers in oregon.
>=3D20
> Mel,
> not being a part of the Clay Art group, I don't know if I can ask them a =
q=3D
uestion... but I am curious about the feeling out there and if I am missing=
s=3D
omething... so I'm throwing it out to you....
>=3D20
> Don and I took our work to a Gallery that was just opening last Oct... at=
t=3D
he time they were connected to another gallery we work with... they have re=
c=3D
ently broken that relationship, and are setting out on their own... As part=
o=3D
f this change they are going to charge each Artist a $200.00 a year "Galler=
y=3D
Support Fee" on top of the 45% commission.
>=3D20
> Don and I are Not paying it, and will be going over to pick up our work s=
o=3D
on. But my question is, is this a new direction that galleries are going a=
n=3D
d I'm just out of step? None of the 7 or 8 other galleries that we work wi=
t=3D
h right now charge this kind of fee and no gallery that we have ever dealt =
w=3D
ith has ever asked us to pay to keep their doors open! But maybe I'm missi=
n=3D
g something?
>=3D20
> We pay and annual fee to the Salem Art Assoc to be members, but that is =
$=3D
75.00 for our family and it goes towards education and Art for the Communit=
y=3D
.... There is one other gallery that charges a $90.00 fee as a website fee.=
.=3D
.. but they are the only gallery we work with that sell from their website =
a=3D
nd that $90.. covers both of us....
>=3D20
> I think this kind of thing starts a bad precident, and provides a way for=
t=3D
he gallery to make $$ without being hungry to sell the work!!
>=3D20
> But as I said, I would really like to know if this is a new trend and I'm=
j=3D
ust out of step?
>=3D20
> Thanks,
> Cindy
> from: minnetonka, mn
> website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
> clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
>=3D20
tony clennell on thu 7 jun 12
Cindy: I'm with you. I would not pay the fee unless it was in the form of
shares in a co-operative and the money was returned to you when you leave
the stable. There would be a tendency on behalf of the gallery owner to
sell more shares. The more people in the stable the more x $200 the gallery
collects. The more people the smaller the slice of the pie for you.
At least as part of a co-operative you get a vote along with your
membership. That way you get a say in how many potters are represented.
One gallery I know of brags to representing 187 ceramic artists. You can't
represent that many. You warehouse most of the potter's work and represent
the flavour of the month.
It's a slippery slope out there.
Best,
Tony
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 11:42 AM, mel jacobson wrote:
> here is a note i just got from cindy hoskisson. cindy and her husband
> don are noted potters and teachers in oregon.
>
> Mel,
> not being a part of the Clay Art group, I don't know if I can ask them a
> question... but I am curious about the feeling out there and if I am
> missing something... so I'm throwing it out to you....
>
> Don and I took our work to a Gallery that was just opening last Oct... at
> the time they were connected to another gallery we work with... they have
> recently broken that relationship, and are setting out on their own... As
> part of this change they are going to charge each Artist a $200.00 a year
> "Gallery Support Fee" on top of the 45% commission.
>
> Don and I are Not paying it, and will be going over to pick up our work
> soon. But my question is, is this a new direction that galleries are goi=
ng
> and I'm just out of step? None of the 7 or 8 other galleries that we wor=
k
> with right now charge this kind of fee and no gallery that we have ever
> dealt with has ever asked us to pay to keep their doors open! But maybe
> I'm missing something?
>
> We pay and annual fee to the Salem Art Assoc to be members, but that is
> $75.00 for our family and it goes towards education and Art for the
> Community.... There is one other gallery that charges a $90.00 fee as a
> website fee.... but they are the only gallery we work with that sell from
> their website and that $90.. covers both of us....
>
> I think this kind of thing starts a bad precident, and provides a way for
> the gallery to make $$ without being hungry to sell the work!!
>
> But as I said, I would really like to know if this is a new trend and I'm
> just out of step?
>
> Thanks,
> Cindy
> from: minnetonka, mn
> website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
> clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
>
--
http://smokieclennell.blogspot.com
gmarshall@coloradocollege.edu on fri 8 jun 12
I am a member of an artists's co-op that charges $30/month "shop dues" bu=
=3D
t=3D20
the sales commission is only 30%. Of course, being a co-operative, there=
=3D
is a=3D20
monthly meeting, each member works a couple of shifts in the shop, and ea=
=3D
ch=3D20
of us is involved in a committee.=3D20=3D20
Last year I was feeling that the time committment for the co-op was getti=
=3D
ng=3D20
to be too much and I approached a consignment shop about carrying my=3D20
work. They charged a 40% commission with no other fees or committments. =
=3D
I=3D20
told them I needed to think about it (I've been a member of the co-op for=
=3D
30=3D20
years) and would make a decision after the first of the year.=3D20
I decided the consignment shop would be a better deal for me so I contact=
=3D
ed=3D20
the owner and set up an appointment to show them my work, talk about=3D20
display space, etc. At the end of the meeting, the owner informed me the=
=3D
y=3D20
had changed their terms at the beginning of the year and now charged a 50=
=3D
%=3D20
commission.
I have always been opposed to 50% consignment so decided to stick with th=
=3D
e=3D20
co-operative. I would hope that artists don't feel so desperate that the=
=3D
y=3D20
think they have to deal with galleries whose terms they don't agree with.=
=3D
I=3D20
realize that galleries have overhead but they need to have sales terms th=
=3D
at=3D20
are equitable for both parties and not try to get as much as they can out=
=3D
of=3D20
the artists.
Dina Barnese on fri 8 jun 12
Interesting thread.
I recently opened a gallery, carrying my own work (I am the only potter)
and that of several other artists. I opened last November and December for
the holiday season, and had a few of the artists cover shifts in trade for
lowered commission. I closed during the winter and just opened back up on
June 1, and have an agreement with one person for them to gallery-sit from
time to time, in trade for half commission now through the end of the year.
Otherwise I'm the sole employee who works the gallery while also working in
my studio. The buildings are right next to each other, so it's not hard to
keep an eye out for folks who stop in.
I'm charging 30% commission, flat. No hanging fees or otherwise. It just
wouldn't make sense. I have my work in a couple of other places as well and
pay 30% to those owners. I would never pay 45%! I wouldn't make any money.
As for the gallery bills, I expect that my pottery sales will cover 60-70%
of the cost and commissions on the work of other artist will cover the
rest. I also work a couple of other part-time gigs which help pay my other
bills. I always have several irons in the fire.
Anyway. Just wanted to chime in that as an owner, I couldn't imagine
charging a fee of any kind over and above the commission, unless I was
holding a special event with entry fees or something along those lines.
We're working on a new website for the gallery, I'll post back to the group
when it's ready for inspection. :-)
Dina Barnese
Z House Gallery & Boutique
Zizziba Studio
Flagstaff, Arizona
David McBeth on fri 8 jun 12
I am a new member in a nine artist co-op. I am the only potter, we each
pay $125/month and keep 100% of our sales. That makes us all equal
partners, inspire of sales. We each take turns sitting in the gallery. The
gallery is open 10-5 seven days a week. In the first month of the early
Maine summer (pre-tourists) I have made more than two months "rent". We
will see how the rest of the season goes.
At the other end of the "block", there are no blocks in Deer Isle Village.
I am the president of the board of a 120+ member artists association. The
annual dues a re $45, there are publicity fees for most of the shows and as
a member I can be in as many as six shows of approximately two weeks
duration between mid-May and Christmas. My sales there last summer
exceeded $400 of which I got 65%.
Anyone going to Haystack this summer, stop by the Red Dot Gallery in Deer
Isle Village and help me out. And stop by the Deer Isle Artists
Association gallery too. We have amaing shows, the exhibits change every
two weeks
Red Dot is 3 Main St, Deer Isle. DIAA is 15 Main St.
Dave McBeth
On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 12:03 AM, David Woof wrote:
> Hi Cindy,
>
> Good to hear from you. You and Don already have it figured out and I agre=
e.
>
> If a Gallery can't sell the work they represent fast enough to pay the
> bills, then I am in the wrong gallery. I have no reason to be paying them
> to store my work for me, and it is not getting viable exposure while
> sitting there.
>
> It has been my past observation that galleries that try this support fee
> idea usually wind up supported by hungry folks needing and willing to pay
> for exposure and so the gallery becomes a second line gallery. These
> galleries will then fail to build an upscale reputation with clients,
> purchasing agents and upscale interior designers, and the vacationing
> tourists with bigger bucks and a refined and demanding taste may walk in
> and walk out of these places if they stop in at all.
>
> I have also watched (from afar) several Galleries that try taking a
> smaller up front percentage and then require that each artist sit the
> gallery for a day each week, etc. This also does not work!!! Some have
> tried combining this idea with the gallery fee.
> Few creatives, driven to hands on studio work, are also successful at
> sales. That is why we take our stuff to art literate business people who
> are. We don't want to waste a precious day pretending to be gallery staff=
.
>
> On the other hand; $200.00 US per year doesn't raise the actual commissio=
n
> percentage by much if they sell enough of your work in a years time.
> However if they sell enough there is no need for support, so we have come
> full circle as to why do it at all.
>
> Anyone starting a new business must consider and secure a source of start
> up capital. If they presented the $200.00 as a start up venture loan to b=
e
> repaid, or as a percentage buy in with eventual dividend payments if they
> make it; and if after considering the risk, you invested on that
> basis,...well....that is a different animal.
>
> So I boycott the gallery support concept.
> It seems to cheapen the profession on several fronts.
>
> I too, would like to hear what others on Clayart have to think and say on
> this.
>
> Thanks for bringing this to the Clayart table.
>
> David Woof
> _________________________________________________________________________=
_
>
>
>
> 10. note about gallery/cost
> Posted by: "mel jacobson" melpots2@VISI.COM
> Date: Thu Jun 7, 2012 8:46 am ((PDT))
>
> here is a note i just got from cindy hoskisson. cindy and her husbanddon
> are noted potters and teachers in oregon.
> Mel,not being a part of the Clay Art group, I don't know if I can ask the=
m
> a question... but I am curious about the feeling out there and if I am
> missing something... so I'm throwing it out to you.... Don and I took our
> work to a Gallery that was just opening last Oct... at the time they were
> connected to another gallery we work with... they have recently broken th=
at
> relationship, and are setting out on their own... As part of this change
> they are going to charge each Artist a $200.00 a year "Gallery Support Fe=
e"
> on top of the 45% commission. Don and I are Not paying it, and will be
> going over to pick up our work soon. But my question is, is this a new
> direction that galleries are going and I'm just out of step? None of the =
7
> or 8 other galleries that we work with right now charge this kind of fee
> and no gallery that we have ever dealt with has ever asked us to pay to
> keep their doors open! But maybe I'm missing something? We pay and annual
> fee to the Salem Art Assoc to be members, but that is $75.00 for our fami=
ly
> and it goes towards education and Art for the Community.... There is one
> other gallery that charges a $90.00 fee as a website fee.... but they are
> the only gallery we work with that sell from their website and that $90..
> covers both of us.... I think this kind of thing starts a bad precident,
> and provides a way for the gallery to make $$ without being hungry to sel=
l
> the work!! But as I said, I would really like to know if this is a new
> trend and I'm just out of step?
> Thanks,
> Cindy
>
> from: minnetonka, mnwebsite: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart link:
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
>
>
--
David McBeth
Professor of Art
Department of Visual and Theatre Arts
University of Tennessee - Martin
731-881-7416
Steve Mills on fri 8 jun 12
I wish Square was available here in Europe; banks want to stop us using che=
q=3D
ues, and their credit card divisions charge ridiculous fees and control tha=
t=3D
market completely. We really NEED competition to bring them into line with=
r=3D
eality.=3D20
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my iPod
On 7 Jun 2012, at 18:18, Kathi wrote:
> I've been wholesaling my work for years and never heard of such a fee. If=
y=3D
ou feel that you can find other outlets for your work, I'd refuse to pay th=
e=3D
fee and take my work elsewhere. if you are consigning your work (something=
I=3D
rarely do unless I know the owners very well), 45 percent is, again, highe=
r=3D
than I've every allowed. Forty is my max with one third being the usual.
>=3D20
> Banks, UPS, and other businesses are tacking on fees to increase their bo=
t=3D
tom line. Not surprising a gallery is trying to do it, also. The IPAD is re=
v=3D
olutionizing the credit card business with SQUARE technology for taking cre=
d=3D
it card. A straight fee of 2.75 percent. No other fees The banks will eithe=
r=3D
cut their fees and rates or lose credit card business completely.
>=3D20
> Kathi LeSueur
>=3D20
> Sent from my iPad
>=3D20
> On Jun 7, 2012, at 11:42 AM, mel jacobson wrote:
>=3D20
>> here is a note i just got from cindy hoskisson. cindy and her husband
>> don are noted potters and teachers in oregon.
>>=3D20
>> Mel,
>> not being a part of the Clay Art group, I don't know if I can ask them a=
q=3D
uestion... but I am curious about the feeling out there and if I am missing=
s=3D
omething... so I'm throwing it out to you....
>>=3D20
>> Don and I took our work to a Gallery that was just opening last Oct... a=
t=3D
the time they were connected to another gallery we work with... they have =
r=3D
ecently broken that relationship, and are setting out on their own... As pa=
r=3D
t of this change they are going to charge each Artist a $200.00 a year "Gal=
l=3D
ery Support Fee" on top of the 45% commission.
>>=3D20
>> Don and I are Not paying it, and will be going over to pick up our work =
s=3D
oon. But my question is, is this a new direction that galleries are going =
a=3D
nd I'm just out of step? None of the 7 or 8 other galleries that we work w=
i=3D
th right now charge this kind of fee and no gallery that we have ever dealt=
w=3D
ith has ever asked us to pay to keep their doors open! But maybe I'm missi=
n=3D
g something?
>>=3D20
>> We pay and annual fee to the Salem Art Assoc to be members, but that is=
$=3D
75.00 for our family and it goes towards education and Art for the Communit=
y=3D
.... There is one other gallery that charges a $90.00 fee as a website fee.=
.=3D
.. but they are the only gallery we work with that sell from their website =
a=3D
nd that $90.. covers both of us....
>>=3D20
>> I think this kind of thing starts a bad precident, and provides a way fo=
r=3D
the gallery to make $$ without being hungry to sell the work!!
>>=3D20
>> But as I said, I would really like to know if this is a new trend and I'=
m=3D
just out of step?
>>=3D20
>> Thanks,
>> Cindy
>> from: minnetonka, mn
>> website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
>> clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
>>=3D20
JRodgers on sat 9 jun 12
Dina,
I have a really hard time with the gallery sales concept. While
recognizing that galleries have expenses, as do I, I cannot afford to
have three things tied up and just sitting somewhere in some sales
space. (1) Materials. Anything consigned does not give me immediate cash
back to buy new materials to be working with while the piece(s) are
waiting to be sold. (2) Labor. Labor is labor, and must be paid when
done. Whether its me or a hired person - the labor has to be paid at the
end of the week. Work consigned and sitting in a gallery doesn't help me
pay my hired help at the end of the week. Don't pay your labor and the
labor board will be on your case. Though I'm my own labor - why should I
treat myself any different from other hired labor? (3)Overhead. If the
rent, the utilities, etc, are due the first of the month, and my pieces
sit for three months in a gallery waiting to be sold - I'll be out of
business by the time the work is sold and the overhead portion of the
work is recovered in the sale. The landlord is not going to wait that
long, nor are the utility companies. (4) Profit - essential for growth.
This is the money I need to buy new equipment, replace worn out things,
make leasehold improvements, etc. I cannot afford to have that margin
just sitting out there on consignment.
For these reasons, I tend either to pursue retail sales at shows etc, or
sell wholesale. Granted, my profit margin is smaller by selling at
wholesale, but I have my money back immediately to put back to work, and
the profit it isn't that much smaller when it's sold through a gallery
charging 40 to 50 per cent - as some do in Alabama.
Just my $0.02 this AM.
John Rodgers
On 6/9/2012 12:01 AM, Dina Barnese wrote:
> Interesting thread.
>
> I recently opened a gallery, carrying my own work (I am the only potter)
> and that of several other artists.
Wyndham Dennison on sat 9 jun 12
> Don and I took our work to a Gallery that was just opening last Oct... at=
the time they were connected to another gallery we work with... they have =
recently broken that relationship, and are setting out on their own... As p=
art of this change they are going to charge each Artist a $200.00 a year "G=
allery Support Fee" on top of the 45% commission.
I have edited this response several times and slept on it as well.
In short I have to say that the cost of a gallery is far greater than it
first appears. Is the $200 a year justified? Are the cost greater at the
new location, rent, labor, taxes, fees,etc?
From the gallery's POV every sq foot of space in that gallery cost a
certain amount of $$$ This has to be paid for in sales as well as any
profit for the owner.
From the artist POV if your sales for the year less your expenses of 45
% + $200 is profitable enough then stay and make money.
95% of all galleries fail in the first 3 years, cost of running a shop
has gone sky high in the last few years so there is likely a sound
reason for asking for gallery upkeep.
If your sales are $10,000/year the $200 would mean the % has gone to 47%
of sales from 45%.
If your sales are $1,000/yr the $200 + 45% would be 65% of
sales($450+$200=3D$650).
Try to look at both sides, Wyndham
Dina Barnese on sun 10 jun 12
Hi John,
Thanks for the response. I have to say I agree with just about everything
you say! There is no way I'd be able to make it if I were selling my work
exclusively through a gallery. In fact, I did not set out to buy a gallery
- I set out to buy a studio and it came as an adorable old 1930's house
with a studio building out back - on commercial property on the "main drag"
in town. I knew I wanted to use the house as my showroom, then decided I
needed some nice stuff on the walls, so talked with a photographer friend
of mine. Then I saw some gorgeous quilting that another friend was doing,
and asked if she was interested in putting some work in. All of a sudden I
had the work of a dozen talented folks in the place and decided to go with
the current that seemed to be carrying me. Thing is, the folks who have
work in are either part-time artists with full-time jobs elsewhere, or
retired folks who do art as a hobby. None of them are trying to make a
living. I'd discourage anybody who was from showing at my place because at
this time I'm simply not getting the traffic to support anybody who is
trying to make a wage from selling art through my place. I can't imagine
asking 40 or 50 percent - wowza.
It is nice to have the other work in, because it gives me a bit of a break
if I'm low on inventory. I'm wrapping up a full-time job, down to half-time
for June then taking the plunge into self employment. Needless to say, I
haven't had as much studio time as I'd have liked. Did two shows in May and
haven't yet restocked my inventory. I also do a few other shows throughout
the year.
I belong to our local potters' guild and a few of those folks sell through
galleries - one through the co-op and others through other venues. Because
of their studio locations, or other reasons known to themselves, the
gallery model suits them better than having their own showroom or traveling
to shows to sell. I guess it works for some.
Vince Pitelka on sun 10 jun 12
John Rodgers wrote:
"I have a really hard time with the gallery sales concept. While recognizin=
g
that galleries have expenses, as do I, I cannot afford to have three thing=
s
tied up and just sitting somewhere in some sales space."
You make good points John, but the reality is that when you sell retail or
wholesale, you often have things sitting in your storeroom or studio for
quite some time before selling them, and at least some of that work could b=
e
in a consignment gallery waiting to be sold. Many artists get the best
results from a broader mix of sales venues, including consignment galleries=
.
It is very important for the artist to take a close look at every gallery
and get some sense of their practice and ethics. The best consignment
galleries move things quickly, and if certain things are not selling they
will inform the artist and have the work picked up and often replaced with
other work. Some artists don't like the idea of that arrangement, but if
you sell work wholesale to a gallery and they are unable to sell it retail,
they will likely never buy from you again no matter how your work changes.
A consignment gallery should have most of their inventory on display unless
they have a proven record of moving a lot of work. In that case it is
appropriate for them to have a backup stock in the storeroom. I have heard
of situations where an artist has work at a consignment gallery and finds
out that most or all of their work was is in the back room rather than out
on display. Upon inquiry, the gallery explains that they are just rotating
stock. A gallery that buys wholesale can do that. A gallery that sells on
consignment should not. Any gallery that sells consignment should make the
commitment to the artist that a significant sampling of their work will be
out on display at all times. If they do not make that commitment, the
artist should remove their work and seek a different sales venue. A
successful consignment gallery will be "rotating stock" simply through
volume sales.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Vince Pitelka on sun 10 jun 12
Wyndham Dennison wrote:
"In short I have to say that the cost of a gallery is far greater than it
first appears. Is the $200 a year justified? Are the cost greater at the ne=
w
location, rent, labor, taxes, fees, etc? From the gallery's POV every sq
foot of space in that gallery cost a certain amount of $$$ This has to be
paid for in sales as well as any profit for the owner. From the artist POV
if your sales for the year less your expenses of 45 % + $200 is profitable
enough then stay and make money. 95% of all galleries fail in the first 3
years, cost of running a shop has gone sky high in the last few years so
there is likely a sound reason for asking for gallery upkeep. Try to look
at both sides, Wyndham"
I think that everyone is trying to look at both sides, but there is no
justification for such a fee. The gallery's profit should be coming from
the consignment commission, and if they truly cannot make enough profit fro=
m
the 45% consignment commission, then they need to raise it to a higher
percentage, and then the artist can decide whether or not they are willing
to pay that commission. There are plenty of galleries that charge 50%
consignment commission, and if this is a good gallery, then paying the 50%
commission is well worth it for the artist.
I don't know how this gallery can expect to attract new consigners without
some assurance of sales. Any sensible person would be uncomfortable with
the idea of paying the $200 annual fee up front without any guarantee of
sales, whereas with the 45% (or 50%) commission at least you know that
whatever you pay to the gallery will be directly in proportion to your
sales. That really needs to be the basis of whatever money the artist is
paying to the gallery.
The $200 "gallery support fee" makes no sense from any point of view. It i=
s
like a donation to a non-profit organization that cannot stay in business
without such donations. It sets a very bad precedent. I have forgotten who
posted the original inquiry about this, but it would be a good idea for the=
m
to forward some of these messages to the gallery owners. They need to know
that this is a really bad idea. I would encourage everyone to boycott any
gallery that tries to initiate such fees.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Shaw Pottery on mon 11 jun 12
We were in a gallery up the coast for a few months. There were about
70 artists, some high end, some produced more "trinket" than "art".
The owner charged a fee each month depending on the size of the space
you used. An end cap was $25, and a 2 ft. window space was $50. On
top of that you paid a 35% commission and had to commit to at least
one day of sitting the gallery.
Some of the artists seemed quite content with the arrangement, some
were struggling to exist and worked extra days, did chores, and "sat"
for other artists just to cover their expenses. There were a few who
seemed to sell quite well, mostly painters and photographers.
We were told to product postcards and note cards with envelopes of
our work since "those sold quite well". We didn't do either, since it
didn't seem appropriate to depend on selling photos of your work
instead of the work itself. During the 4 months we were there, we
didn't cover expenses (especially since the drive to the gallery took
1 1/2 hours each way plus gas). Strangely enough, the owner didn't
claim to be an employer, but the artists were told they had to stay
in the shop for the full day, no leaving for lunch breaks or coffee
breaks. You could eat at your station, work on your art if it was of
the type that allowed you to sit and do it at a desk (sketches, etc).
There was a list of chores each sitter was to perform during their
assigned day, cleaning, stamping bags with the gallery name, etc.
The other galleries we have dealt with sold on consignment with
commissions ranging from 35% to 50%. We have done many shows in
central and northern California, the entry fees at those ranged from
$200 to $600 for one and two day shows. Some asked for commission
over the fees, some did not
--
Shaw Pottery
http://www.shawpottery.com/
https://www.facebook.com/ShawPots
KATHI LESUEUR on mon 11 jun 12
When considering whether to wholesale ones' work I often hear the =3D
comment, "I can't afford to give away 50%." I thought the same thing for =
=3D
years until my partner sat me down and showed me an analysis of my show =3D
costs. She was not a potter and had worked in corporate America most of =3D
her life. =3D46rom Bendix Aerospace working on Apollo in the seventies to =
=3D
running a wholesale tropical foliage nursery in the eighties. The =3D
analysis was an eye opener.
She started from the basic premise that I actually was running two =3D
business (two "profit" centers). A manufacturing operation making pots =3D
and a retail business selling pots. All of the cost of producing the =3D
pots were allocated to the manufacturing operation. All of the sales =3D
costs to the retail operation. So, if I went to a show and made $4000 =3D
she explained only $2000 was from retail sales. If I had stayed home and =
=3D
put those same pots in a box and shipped them out I would have made =3D
$2000 wholesale. So, deduct all of my manufacturing expenses from $2000 =3D
and what did I have left over. That was my profit from the =3D
manufacturing.
Now, deduct my retail expenses from the $2000 retail I made at the show. =
=3D
Food, lodging, show fees, bags, wrapping paper. What did I have left =3D
over? Looked pretty good to me. Then she said, "Divide it by the days =3D
you were out of the studio to do the show." Didn't look so good. Then =3D
she said, "divide it by the "man days" since both of us had done the =3D
show. So, a day to pack. A day to drive to the show. Set up on Friday. =3D
Show on Saturday and Sunday. Drive home on Monday. Six days, or twelve =3D
man days for that $2000. Was I making any money, really?
The next question was, "How many pots can you make in twelve days?"
It was an eye opener for me. In most cases I was better off staying home =
=3D
and making pots.=3D20
Now, I expect a lot more for a show to be considered good. My formula =3D
for whether or not to do a show is :
What are the sales?
How do they treat the exhibitors?
How hard is the set up?
If the sales aren't terrific two and three will keep me from doing a =3D
show.
Of course, this assumes that there is enough demand for your product to =3D
sell a lot of pots wholesale. I'm lucky in that respect.=3D20
Also, to Vince's point about consigning work that doesn't sell quickly. =3D
I would agree to a point. Galleries and shops that I have a history =3D
with, who buy lots of stuff, I will often consign a few pieces with. I =3D
do that with lamps and one of a kind pieces at one store. Not a lot. =3D
When they sell she sends a check. I know I can count on her and it =3D
allows here to have some of my bigger, one of a kind pieces. But, =3D
consigning is rare and as John said, ties up your inventory. Often for =3D
months.
Analyze your business and you may make other decisions.
KATHI LESUEUR
http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
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