Elizabeth Priddy on mon 23 jul 12
John Britt said:=3D0A"=3D0ASo I am wondering if any art professors out ther=
e, r=3D
ather than defending=3D0Athemselves, would=3DA0 have the guts to provide ac=
tual=3D
employment data on the=3D0Apeople who have graduated from their programs a=
ft=3D
er 10 , 20 and 30 years?=3D0AWhat was the cost of their education and what =
pr=3D
ofession are they in now?=3D0AAre they self supporting? What is the income?=
D=3D
o they have health=3D0Ainsurance? Do they have retirement? Did they pay off=
t=3D
heir student loans?=3D0AOr did someone else help them? Etc. Would they do i=
t =3D
again?=3DA0 It would be a=3D0Agreat article for potential students.=3DA0"=
=3D0A=3D0ASt=3D
anford just had to do this for their law school. It did not go well. $50,=
=3D
000 a year can buy you a job at Arby's OR a corporate star career. It depe=
=3D
nds on you and your talent. School won't fix a lack of talent, creativity,=
=3D
or provide a unique perspective worth sharing. It also will not give you =
=3D
a work ethic to get you through hard times. =3D0A=3D0AQuality of character=
giv=3D
es you all that, plus maybe being brought up right (or wrong, sometimes you=
=3D
learn what NOT to do). What a university can give you is a broader mind t=
=3D
han what you have ready access to, opportunities to see things you would ne=
=3D
ver think to go look at on your own, exposure to people and things that you=
=3D
don't like at first or maybe never but might learn to appreciate through g=
=3D
ood critique or education. It will give you insight into history and cultu=
=3D
re beyond your back yard or porch.=3D0A=3D0ALife teaches you how to join al=
l th=3D
at together and have a good life. I believe that a good life is not possib=
=3D
le without Tony's some and some. Either approach without the other leaves =
=3D
you a little lesser than what you could be. It is why a lot of people go b=
=3D
ack to school when they know it will not make a whit of diff in their botto=
=3D
m line in the end. It is why a lot of people put in two years, know they h=
=3D
ave got what they need from it and never go aback and become successful des=
=3D
pite failing out of college or grad school. Sometimes you are not failing =
=3D
when you quit, sometimes you just got what you needed and it is time to mov=
=3D
e on.=3D0A=3D0AI got a delightful crit from John Britt, he probably doesn't=
rem=3D
ember it. It changed the quality of my work forever. Vince taught me that=
=3D
arguing on the internet is a dangerous thing and that it should always be =
=3D
done gently and with respect from both sides. You never know who you are ta=
=3D
lking to here, not really. They may become your best friend someday.=3D0A=
=3D0A=3D
Do what is right for you and don't be afraid to start late and take what YO=
=3D
U need rather than what is offered in a program. They let you do that, the=
=3D
y just don't give you a piece of paper for it. And that is ok. CC programs=
=3D
often will give you the crit and face time with other potters you need and=
=3D
want when you are working in isolation. Just go out there and get what yo=
=3D
u need and damn the torpedoes. And if what you need is a job to pay the bi=
=3D
lls while you make pots that excite you but folks aren't buying or you don'=
=3D
t know how to sell, that is fine. It is a fine life to do some and some, n=
=3D
o matter what the somes are.=3D0A=3D0AI learned that from Tony. I make pot=
s an=3D
d raise a kid. I am doing some and some. And it is fine. I no longer arg=
=3D
ue on the internet, especially on Clayart. I have FB for that. DOn't worr=
=3D
y, I am not back to post daily, but I lurk. I am still on the list. And i=
=3D
f anyone ever wants any help with crits on brushpainting, the only thing I =
=3D
feel qualified to talk to you about re that, contact me on FB, you can use =
=3D
pictures there. That is its only real advantage. Clayart served me well f=
=3D
or decades and FB is not a good substitute, but it will do.=3D0A- Elizabeth=
=3D
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0AElizabeth Priddy=3D0A=3D0ABeaufort, NC - USA=3D0A=3D0A2=
52-504-2622=3D0A=3D
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0Ahttp://www.elizabethpriddy.com=3D0A
Cwiddershins on tue 24 jul 12
EP Wrote:
>t served me well for >decades and FB is not a >good substitute, but it wil=
l=3D
>do.
My kids got me on social media (MySpace first.) Images ARE vastly superior =
t=3D
o ASCII for the visual artist. =3D20
--
Lee in Mpls. =3D46rom my iPod=3D
Robert Harris on tue 24 jul 12
One of the great things about ClayArt is that it forces people to put
things into words. While, yes, images are great for illustrative purposes,
people can get lazy with them when communicating their ideas (I'm not
saying you do this!). Clayart forces people to communicate their ideas and
thoughts without relying on pictures. I have seen far too many lectures ,
blogs etc, which are liberally sprinkled with pictures, diagrams etc etc,
but without enough accompanying explanantion (and sometimes without an
original thought).
As an example, I enjoyed your photographs of Hamada Shoji's 77 teabowls,
but I enjoyed the translation of his thoughts even more. Without that would
not have realised that he deliberately tried to use every single one of his
techniques when making the teabowls (something I found interesting and
worth pursuing). As someone who has little cultural resonance with the sort
of teabowls he made, I found them relatively inaccessible - explanation in
the form of words would be good for my understanding and appreciation of
them.
The ASCII format of clayart forces people to think as they type - to
formulate ideas in a clear and precise manner. Some people say look at
these pretty pictures - see, I'm right (or whatever)!
For those that use pictures as mere illustration and do not need to be
forced to provide accompanying words - then yes, there are downsides, but
people have found ways around this (fickr and so on).
Robert
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 1:40 AM, Cwiddershins wrote=
:
> EP Wrote:
>
> >t served me well for >decades and FB is not a >good substitute, but it
> will >do.
>
> My kids got me on social media (MySpace first.) Images ARE vastly superio=
r
> to ASCII for the visual artist.
>
> --
> Lee in Mpls. From my iPod
--
----------------------------------------------------------
Craig Edwards on tue 24 jul 12
Robert and All: This is all good if English is your first language. I find
FB great for many of my oriental friends. When Touri-san posts photos with
the caption Edo Chawan, I know that she is using all the English that she
has at her command, and I'm to lazy to learn Japanese.. and Korean
and French etc.
--
Make Good Pots
~Craig
New London MN
http://woodfiredpottery.blogspot.com/
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Robert Harris wro=
te:
> One of the great things about ClayArt is that it forces people to put
> things into words. While, yes, images are great for illustrative purposes=
,
> people can get lazy with them when communicating their ideas (I'm not
> saying you do this!). Clayart forces people to communicate their ideas an=
d
> thoughts without relying on pictures. I have seen far too many lectures ,
> blogs etc, which are liberally sprinkled with pictures, diagrams etc etc,
> but without enough accompanying explanantion (and sometimes without an
> original thought).
>
> As an example, I enjoyed your photographs of Hamada Shoji's 77 teabowls,
> but I enjoyed the translation of his thoughts even more. Without that wou=
ld
> not have realised that he deliberately tried to use every single one of h=
is
> techniques when making the teabowls (something I found interesting and
> worth pursuing). As someone who has little cultural resonance with the so=
rt
> of teabowls he made, I found them relatively inaccessible - explanation i=
n
> the form of words would be good for my understanding and appreciation of
> them.
>
> The ASCII format of clayart forces people to think as they type - to
> formulate ideas in a clear and precise manner. Some people say look at
> these pretty pictures - see, I'm right (or whatever)!
> For those that use pictures as mere illustration and do not need to be
> forced to provide accompanying words - then yes, there are downsides, but
> people have found ways around this (fickr and so on).
>
> Robert
>
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 1:40 AM, Cwiddershins > >wrote:
>
> > EP Wrote:
> >
> > >t served me well for >decades and FB is not a >good substitute, but it
> > will >do.
> >
> > My kids got me on social media (MySpace first.) Images ARE vastly
> superior
> > to ASCII for the visual artist.
> >
> > --
> > Lee in Mpls. From my iPod
>
>
>
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
Lee on tue 24 jul 12
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Robert Harris wro=
=3D
te:
>
>
> As an example, I enjoyed your photographs of Hamada Shoji's 77 teabowls,
> but I enjoyed the translation of his thoughts even more.
>
With social media, both areas are covered. The images at Fotki as I
shared them, are awkward to share.
Now, the true test, is HOLDING and USING those tea bowls. It is
the only way to know if the photos or Hamada's talk about the bowls are
true.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he land
of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent within
itself." -- John O'Donohue
Robert Harris on tue 24 jul 12
You're absolutely right on both points Lee. In fact I was going to add, in
response to your original post, that pottery is not in fact primarily a
visual art.
However you seemed to miss my point that ClayArt's benefit was that it
FORCES people to use words. The problem with a lot of FB posts and blogs I
have seen is that many people seem to think posting a picture is
sufficient, when in fact it should be used to illustrate or emphasise a
point - or atthe very least have sufficient explanation attached to put it
into some sort of context.
People say that a picture is worth a thousand words - but I personally
think that is only true when used in conjunction with words, not on its
own. To give hyperbolic analogy, a 2000 word essay is going to be a lot
more useful/interesting than two pictures with no text whatsoever, but one
picture accompanied by 1000 words will beat both of them hands down.
Obviously, as Craig says, pictures are great for crossing language
barriers, but hopefully Google (or whoever) will have cracked the machine
translation barrier soon and I will be able to read French or Japanese
versions of ClayArt.
Robert
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Lee wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Robert Harris w=
=3D
rote:
>
>>
>>
>> As an example, I enjoyed your photographs of Hamada Shoji's 77 teabowls,
>> but I enjoyed the translation of his thoughts even more.
>>
>
> With social media, both areas are covered. The images at Fotki as I
> shared them, are awkward to share.
>
> Now, the true test, is HOLDING and USING those tea bowls. It i=
=3D
s
> the only way to know if the photos or Hamada's talk about the bowls are
> true.
>
> --
> Lee Love in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>
> "Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97t=
hat is, =3D
"The land
> of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent within
> itself." -- John O'Donohue
>
--=3D20
----------------------------------------------------------
Craig Edwards on wed 25 jul 12
Robert: Nice thoughts. I might add that pottery(IMHO) is not primarily a
visual art, but a tactile art meant to be touched and used. I use my
pottery collection as a library, and to enrich the daily rituals of my
life.
On my recent trip to Japan, Okamoto-san showed us some 400 year old edo
chawan. Holding them was more than pictures or words. Unfortunately
pictures and words are what we have access to most times, but every now and
then a mountain top view is needed.
Ahhh... words.... 1000 words... could be an addition(most likely) or
a subtraction. Show me a picture of a battle ground with mangled bodies and
write on how war is peace. We see it all the time.
Random ramblings.
Time to make some pots.
Make Good Pots
~Craig
New London MN
http://woodfiredpottery.blogspot.com/
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Robert Harris wro=
=3D
te:
> You're absolutely right on both points Lee. In fact I was going to add, i=
=3D
n
> response to your original post, that pottery is not in fact primarily a
> visual art.
>
> However you seemed to miss my point that ClayArt's benefit was that it
> FORCES people to use words. The problem with a lot of FB posts and blogs =
=3D
I
> have seen is that many people seem to think posting a picture is
> sufficient, when in fact it should be used to illustrate or emphasise a
> point - or atthe very least have sufficient explanation attached to put i=
=3D
t
> into some sort of context.
>
> People say that a picture is worth a thousand words - but I personally
> think that is only true when used in conjunction with words, not on its
> own. To give hyperbolic analogy, a 2000 word essay is going to be a lot
> more useful/interesting than two pictures with no text whatsoever, but on=
=3D
e
> picture accompanied by 1000 words will beat both of them hands down.
>
> Obviously, as Craig says, pictures are great for crossing language
> barriers, but hopefully Google (or whoever) will have cracked the machine
> translation barrier soon and I will be able to read French or Japanese
> versions of ClayArt.
>
> Robert
>
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Lee wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Robert Harris > >wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> As an example, I enjoyed your photographs of Hamada Shoji's 77 teabowl=
=3D
s,
> >> but I enjoyed the translation of his thoughts even more.
> >>
> >
> > With social media, both areas are covered. The images at Fotki as I
> > shared them, are awkward to share.
> >
> > Now, the true test, is HOLDING and USING those tea bowls. It
> is
> > the only way to know if the photos or Hamada's talk about the bowls are
> > true.
> >
> > --
> > Lee Love in Minneapolis
> > http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
> >
> > "Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is=3D
, "The
> land
> > of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent within
> > itself." -- John O'Donohue
> >
>
>
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
--
Cwiddershins on wed 25 jul 12
Craig, I got a chance to hold Okamoto-Sensei's collection during the Mashik=
o=3D
Gathering. I hogged the Ido bowl! I had a similar experience at Shimao=
k=3D
a's memorial service: in his 17th century tea house, we were served tea in=
5=3D
of his favorite chaw an from his Song and Punchong collection. The scro=
l=3D
l displayed was the calligraphy for "Dream." Those are experiences I will n=
e=3D
ver forget.... =3D20
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DC3=3DB3g ar chul an tI=3DE2=3D80=3D94tIr dlainn trina ch=
=3DC3=3DA9ile"=3DE2=3D
=3D80=3D94that is, "The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue --sent from my iPod
On Jul 25, 2012, at 7:43 AM, Craig Edwards wrote:
> Robert: Nice thoughts. I might add that pottery(IMHO) is not primarily a
> visual art, but a tactile art meant to be touched and used. I use my
> pottery collection as a library, and to enrich the daily rituals of my
> life.
> On my recent trip to Japan, Okamoto-san showed us some 400 year old edo
> chawan. Holding them was more than pictures or words. Unfortunately
> pictures and words are what we have access to most times, but every now a=
n=3D
d
> then a mountain top view is needed.
> Ahhh... words.... 1000 words... could be an addition(most likely) or
> a subtraction. Show me a picture of a battle ground with mangled bodies a=
n=3D
d
> write on how war is peace. We see it all the time.
> Random ramblings.
> Time to make some pots.
>=3D20
> Make Good Pots
> ~Craig
> New London MN
> http://woodfiredpottery.blogspot.com/
>=3D20
>=3D20
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Robert Harris w=
r=3D
ote:
>=3D20
>> You're absolutely right on both points Lee. In fact I was going to add, =
i=3D
n
>> response to your original post, that pottery is not in fact primarily a
>> visual art.
>>=3D20
>> However you seemed to miss my point that ClayArt's benefit was that it
>> FORCES people to use words. The problem with a lot of FB posts and blogs=
I=3D
>> have seen is that many people seem to think posting a picture is
>> sufficient, when in fact it should be used to illustrate or emphasise a
>> point - or atthe very least have sufficient explanation attached to put =
i=3D
t
>> into some sort of context.
>>=3D20
>> People say that a picture is worth a thousand words - but I personally
>> think that is only true when used in conjunction with words, not on its
>> own. To give hyperbolic analogy, a 2000 word essay is going to be a lot
>> more useful/interesting than two pictures with no text whatsoever, but o=
n=3D
e
>> picture accompanied by 1000 words will beat both of them hands down.
>>=3D20
>> Obviously, as Craig says, pictures are great for crossing language
>> barriers, but hopefully Google (or whoever) will have cracked the machin=
e=3D
>> translation barrier soon and I will be able to read French or Japanese
>> versions of ClayArt.
>>=3D20
>> Robert
>>=3D20
>> On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Lee wrote:
>>=3D20
>>>=3D20
>>>=3D20
>>> On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Robert Harris >>> wrote:
>>>=3D20
>>>>=3D20
>>>>=3D20
>>>> As an example, I enjoyed your photographs of Hamada Shoji's 77 teabowl=
s=3D
,
>>>> but I enjoyed the translation of his thoughts even more.
>>>>=3D20
>>>=3D20
>>> With social media, both areas are covered. The images at Fotki as I
>>> shared them, are awkward to share.
>>>=3D20
>>> Now, the true test, is HOLDING and USING those tea bowls. It
>> is
>>> the only way to know if the photos or Hamada's talk about the bowls are
>>> true.
>>>=3D20
>>> --
>>> Lee Love in Minneapolis
>>> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>>>=3D20
>>> "Ta tIr na n-=3DC3=3DB3g ar chul an tI=3DE2=3D80=3D94tIr dlainn trina c=
h=3DC3=3DA9ile"=3D
=3DE2=3D80=3D94that is, "The
>> land
>>> of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent within
>>> itself." -- John O'Donohue
>>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>> --
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> --
| |
|
