mel jacobson on sat 4 aug 12
a few years back a nut job, probably semi-insane
person went after itc from the clayart venue.
(the person that did this was a regular irritant poster on clayart.)
no names ever given.
they wanted the formula.
well, they made a call to the justice department, and irs
and reported itc as a scam.
it cost feriz 25,000 bucks out of pocket to convince the feds he was legit.
he was arrested and spent a day in jail. nils and i both spoke to the agen=
t
in charge and sent our books and articles praising the product. the kook w=
as
disciplined, but it could have gone the other way...who knows? can you
spell secrete formula?
so, tell me a nut case may not be out there. remember, all it takes
is someone to blow the whistle..once.
those that pooh/pooh it, please sign your name as co/signator
to my million dollar liability insurance policy that i bought last week.
and, i posted that note just as a perfect reminder how fragile the
law is. and, interpretation is just as fragile. try the guy that spent
27 years in jail as a murderer, just out. he was innocent. so?
http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart page below:
http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
http://www.21stcenturykilns.com/
JRodgers on sat 4 aug 12
I agree there are nut jobs all over. But what can you do? You can't hide
from every nut job. WE are unfortunately blind to who they are until
they come at you - kind of like a terrorist you never see him coming
until he's there and done the damage. But if you pull back, and are
afraid of something happening before it does based on threat then you
have given up your freedom. And that really does open up a whole
'nother can of worms. Prudence is one thing, fear is another.
My $0.02.
John
On 8/4/2012 8:51 AM, mel jacobson wrote:
> a few years back a nut job, probably semi-insane
> person went after itc from the clayart venue.
> (the person that did this was a regular irritant poster on clayart.)
> no names ever given.
>
> they wanted the formula.
>
> well, they made a call to the justice department, and irs
> and reported itc as a scam.
>
> it cost feriz 25,000 bucks out of pocket to convince the feds he was legi=
t.
> he was arrested and spent a day in jail. nils and i both spoke to the
> agent
> in charge and sent our books and articles praising the product. the
> kook was
> disciplined, but it could have gone the other way...who knows? can you
> spell secrete formula?
>
> so, tell me a nut case may not be out there. remember, all it takes
> is someone to blow the whistle..once.
>
> those that pooh/pooh it, please sign your name as co/signator
> to my million dollar liability insurance policy that i bought last week.
>
> and, i posted that note just as a perfect reminder how fragile the
> law is. and, interpretation is just as fragile. try the guy that spent
> 27 years in jail as a murderer, just out. he was innocent. so?
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
> clayart page below:
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
> http://www.21stcenturykilns.com/
>
John Baymore on sun 5 aug 12
Hi all. Long time no posting.
Unfortunately, I think mel has it pretty much correct here in this post. T=
=3D
his posting of his sums up the issue rather nicely. =3D20
It is not IF what is being discussed is illegal.... likely it is not illega=
=3D
l in any way (only a lawyer and a court can tell that) .... as has so adroi=
=3D
tly pointed out by others.
It is that even if it is absolutely legal... the defense costs for any laws=
=3D
uit or charges that might be leveled will add up very fast. I just used a =
=3D
lawyer for something...... it cost $400 per hour. Do the math. And the re=
=3D
sult of the case is based upon who hires the best lawyer.... not on "truth"=
=3D
. And some "nutcases" have the disposable money to hire good lawyers.
mel is also right on another count.... if he officially "owns" CLAYART.....=
=3D
... he is a bit in the crosshairs. mel........ why not maybe set up CLAYAR=
=3D
T as a LLC or a full corporate entity to help protect your own assets? And=
=3D
TAKE the donations so generously offered as help in paying for the coats o=
=3D
f doing so and maintaining the corporation.
So....... all we (participants) have to do is take some care and not let th=
=3D
e discussion veer off into trulay controversial legal territory.... and mel=
=3D
is likely just fine.
Maybe consider his story a "warning shot across the bow".
best,
...........................john
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 08:51:40 -0500
From: mel jacobson
Subject: price fixing, a story, real
a few years back a nut job, probably semi-insane
person went after itc from the clayart venue.
(the person that did this was a regular irritant poster on clayart.)
no names ever given.
they wanted the formula.
well, they made a call to the justice department, and irs
and reported itc as a scam.
it cost feriz 25,000 bucks out of pocket to convince the feds he was legit.
he was arrested and spent a day in jail. nils and i both spoke to the agen=
=3D
t
in charge and sent our books and articles praising the product. the kook w=
=3D
as
disciplined, but it could have gone the other way...who knows? can you
spell secrete formula?
so, tell me a nut case may not be out there. remember, all it takes
is someone to blow the whistle..once.
those that pooh/pooh it, please sign your name as co/signator
to my million dollar liability insurance policy that i bought last week.
and, i posted that note just as a perfect reminder how fragile the
law is. and, interpretation is just as fragile. try the guy that spent
27 years in jail as a murderer, just out. he was innocent. so?
http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart page below:
http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
http://www.21stcenturykilns.com/
Ben Morrison on sun 5 aug 12
The costs to set up an Non Profit Corporation have been reduced in recent y=
=3D
ears with online filing document companies. What used to cost 400 bucks an =
=3D
hour to an attorney can now be done for a few hundred total.=3DA0 A major p=
ro=3D
blem with distributors in the US currently is that it's so cheap and easy t=
=3D
o set up a corporation that people are using it as a way to scam large dist=
=3D
ributors out of product on account. $80 bucks will get you a set of papers,=
=3D
plus a small filing fee for your area and you're in business as an S Corp.=
=3D
But I digress, the veil of protection is respected by most judges. Just ha=
=3D
ving a 501-C3 opens up a lot of doors for an organization. Being incorporat=
=3D
ed would allow Mel to relax a bit and not have to worry so much about his p=
=3D
ersonal assets.=3D0A=3D0A-Ben=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A_______________________________=
_=3D0A From:=3D
John Baymore =3D0ATo: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG =
=3D0AS=3D
ent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 9:49 AM=3D0ASubject: Re: price fixing, a story,=
r=3D
eal=3D0A =3D0AHi all.=3DA0 Long time no posting.=3D0A=3D0AUnfortunately, I =
think mel =3D
has it pretty much correct here in this post.=3DA0 This posting of his sums=
u=3D
p the issue rather nicely.=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0AIt is not IF what is being discus=
sed is=3D
illegal.... likely it is not illegal in any way (only a lawyer and a court=
=3D
can tell that) .... as has so adroitly pointed out by others.=3D0A=3D0AIt =
is t=3D
hat even if it is absolutely legal... the defense costs for any lawsuit or =
=3D
charges that might be leveled will add up very fast.=3DA0 I just used a law=
ye=3D
r for something...... it cost $400 per hour.=3DA0 Do the math.=3DA0 And the=
res=3D
ult of the case is based upon who hires the best lawyer.... not on "truth".=
=3D
=3DA0 And some "nutcases" have the disposable money to hire good lawyers.=
=3D0A=3D
=3D0Amel is also right on another count.... if he officially "owns" CLAYART=
..=3D
...... he is a bit in the crosshairs.=3DA0 mel........ why not maybe set up=
C=3D
LAYART as a LLC or a full corporate entity to help protect your own assets?=
=3D
=3DA0 And TAKE the donations so generously offered as help in paying for th=
e =3D
coats of doing so and maintaining the corporation.=3D0A=3D0ASo....... all w=
e (p=3D
articipants) have to do is take some care and not let the discussion veer o=
=3D
ff into trulay controversial legal territory.... and mel is likely just fin=
=3D
e.=3D0A=3D0AMaybe consider his story a "warning shot across the bow".=3D0A=
=3D0Abest=3D
,=3D0A=3D0A...........................john=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0ADat=
e:=3DA0 =3DA0 Sat, 4=3D
Aug 2012 08:51:40 -0500=3D0AFrom:=3DA0 =3DA0 mel jacobson OM>=3D0A=3D
Subject: price fixing, a story, real=3D0A=3D0Aa few years back a nut job, p=
roba=3D
bly semi-insane=3D0Aperson went after itc from the clayart venue.=3D0A(the =
pers=3D
on that did this was a regular irritant poster on clayart.)=3D0Ano names ev=
er=3D
given.=3D0A=3D0Athey wanted the formula.=3D0A=3D0Awell, they made a call t=
o the ju=3D
stice department, and irs=3D0Aand reported itc as a scam.=3D0A=3D0Ait cost =
feriz =3D
25,000 bucks out of pocket to convince the feds he was legit.=3D0Ahe was ar=
re=3D
sted and spent a day in jail.=3DA0 nils and i both spoke to the agent=3D0Ai=
n ch=3D
arge and sent our books and articles praising the product.=3DA0 the kook wa=
s=3D
=3D0Adisciplined, but it could have gone the other way...who knows?=3DA0 ca=
n yo=3D
u=3D0Aspell secrete formula?=3D0A=3D0Aso, tell me a nut case may not be out=
there=3D
.=3DA0 remember, all it takes=3D0Ais someone to blow the whistle..once.=3D0=
A=3D0Ath=3D
ose that pooh/pooh it, please sign your name as co/signator=3D0Ato my milli=
on=3D
dollar liability insurance policy that i bought last week.=3D0A=3D0Aand, i=
pos=3D
ted that note just as a perfect reminder how fragile the=3D0Alaw is.=3DA0 a=
nd, =3D
interpretation is just as fragile.=3DA0 try the guy that spent=3D0A27 years=
in =3D
jail as a murderer, just out.=3DA0 he was innocent.=3DA0 so?=3D0Ahttp://www=
.visi.=3D
com/~melpots/=3D0Aclayart page below:=3D0Ahttp://www.visi.com/~melpots/clay=
art.=3D
html=3D0Ahttp://www.21stcenturykilns.com/
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