Joel Willson on mon 13 aug 12
Hi, everyone.
So I'm a ceramics student in college and our studio's L&L Jupiter kiln is
acting up. The middle section of elements is firing non-stop. We just use
it for bisque firings to cone 07, and it originally started acting up in
June. Originally it would get up to around 1100F then display Err-d. I
cancelled the program so that the display was showing Idle, and waited
until the next day to unload/reload it with more space around the
thermocouples.
To my surprise, I got in the next day and the thermocouples were reading
the same temperature as when they had first error-ed, and when I cracked
open the kiln the middle three elements were still lit up and firing. The
kiln is hooked up to a breaker box with a shut-off lever, so I turned the
power off there and it cooled down normally.
After running a FAST GLAZE program just to see what elements were working,
I realized that even if the kiln itself is shut off, as long as it's still
connected to power, those middle three will keep firing. I opened up the
control box and all the wiring looks good (I don't really have any
experience dealing with electrical components, so granted I don't really
know what to look for). Nothing was fried or melted or burned or anything,
and same goes for the wiring to the elements themselves.
I have no idea why that section would just constantly fire even though the
kiln is shut off, but I figured I'd ask you guys (and gals) before having
someone come in to look at it. Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Joel
John Hesselberth on mon 13 aug 12
Hi Joel,
What does the tech service person at L&L have to say?? Have you called =3D
them? They have excellent tech service and the place to start is with =3D
them! Pick up the phone and call at 856-294-0077 or email them at =3D
service@hotkilns.com There is no indication in your note you have done =3D
this.
Regards,
John
On Aug 13, 2012, at 6:42 PM, Joel Willson wrote:
> Hi, everyone.
> So I'm a ceramics student in college and our studio's L&L Jupiter kiln =
=3D
is
> acting up. The middle section of elements is firing non-stop. We just =3D
use
> it for bisque firings to cone 07, and it originally started acting up =3D
in
> June. Originally it would get up to around 1100F then display Err-d. I
> cancelled the program so that the display was showing Idle, and waited
> until the next day to unload/reload it with more space around the
> thermocouples.
>=3D20
> To my surprise, I got in the next day and the thermocouples were =3D
reading
> the same temperature as when they had first error-ed, and when I =3D
cracked
> open the kiln the middle three elements were still lit up and firing. =3D
The
> kiln is hooked up to a breaker box with a shut-off lever, so I turned =3D
the
> power off there and it cooled down normally.
>=3D20
> After running a FAST GLAZE program just to see what elements were =3D
working,
> I realized that even if the kiln itself is shut off, as long as it's =3D
still
> connected to power, those middle three will keep firing. I opened up =3D
the
> control box and all the wiring looks good (I don't really have any
> experience dealing with electrical components, so granted I don't =3D
really
> know what to look for). Nothing was fried or melted or burned or =3D
anything,
> and same goes for the wiring to the elements themselves.
>=3D20
> I have no idea why that section would just constantly fire even though =
=3D
the
> kiln is shut off, but I figured I'd ask you guys (and gals) before =3D
having
> someone come in to look at it. Any thoughts?
>=3D20
> Thanks!
> Joel
William & Susan Schran User on mon 13 aug 12
Sounds like the relay for the middle section is stuck in the on position.
I assume this is a programmable kiln as you wrote about programming a fast
glaze firing
Did a search in the "knowledge base" at the L&L web site:
http://www.hotkilns.com/support (always start a check of kiln problems
here).
This may be the answer:
http://www.hotkilns.com/how-can-my-kiln-section-stay-all-time-my-computeriz
ed-kiln-even-when-onoff-switch
Sounds like a new relay may be needed.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
On 8/13/12 6:42 PM, "Joel Willson" wrote:
>I have no idea why that section would just constantly fire even though the
>kiln is shut off, but I figured I'd ask you guys (and gals) before having
>someone come in to look at it. Any thoughts?
JRodgers on mon 13 aug 12
Sounds like a stuck relay. One of my kilns has one now and did exactly
what you described. If you have the manual on the kiln, there should be
a section that tells you how to test for a stuck relay. If not, contact
the people at L&L and get a manual from them. They probably have it in
PDF format. I have Paragons and testing is easy, and changing the relay,
while n ot difficult, is a bit of a pain because of the screw
arrangement into the base of the relay, but that may not be the case in
your L&L. BTW - Paragon has addressed the PITA relay change issue in
my model kilns.
John Rodgers
On 8/13/2012 5:42 PM, Joel Willson wrote:
> Hi, everyone.
> So I'm a ceramics student in college and our studio's L&L Jupiter kiln is
> acting up. The middle section of elements is firing non-stop. We just use
> it for bisque firings to cone 07, and it originally started acting up in
> June. Originally it would get up to around 1100F then display Err-d. I
> cancelled the program so that the display was showing Idle, and waited
> until the next day to unload/reload it with more space around the
> thermocouples.
>
> To my surprise, I got in the next day and the thermocouples were reading
> the same temperature as when they had first error-ed, and when I cracked
> open the kiln the middle three elements were still lit up and firing. The
> kiln is hooked up to a breaker box with a shut-off lever, so I turned the
> power off there and it cooled down normally.
>
> After running a FAST GLAZE program just to see what elements were workin=
g,
> I realized that even if the kiln itself is shut off, as long as it's stil=
l
> connected to power, those middle three will keep firing. I opened up the
> control box and all the wiring looks good (I don't really have any
> experience dealing with electrical components, so granted I don't really
> know what to look for). Nothing was fried or melted or burned or anything=
,
> and same goes for the wiring to the elements themselves.
>
> I have no idea why that section would just constantly fire even though th=
e
> kiln is shut off, but I figured I'd ask you guys (and gals) before having
> someone come in to look at it. Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks!
> Joel
> .
>
jonathan byler on tue 14 aug 12
yes, the only reason this would be happening is if a relay was stuck
in the closed position. due to arcing when the contacts open and
close, sometimes when they get old, they get welded closed by the
arc. pretty simple job to replace a relay: disconnect power from the
kiln (unplug, or lock out main cut off switch on the wall), take note
of which wires go where, and put them back on the same connectors for
the new relay.
On Aug 13, 2012, at 8:24 PM, JRodgers wrote:
> Sounds like a stuck relay. One of my kilns has one now and did exactly
> what you described. If you have the manual on the kiln, there should
> be
> a section that tells you how to test for a stuck relay. If not,
> contact
> the people at L&L and get a manual from them. They probably have it in
> PDF format. I have Paragons and testing is easy, and changing the
> relay,
> while n ot difficult, is a bit of a pain because of the screw
> arrangement into the base of the relay, but that may not be the case
> in
> your L&L. BTW - Paragon has addressed the PITA relay change issue in
> my model kilns.
>
> John Rodgers
>
> On 8/13/2012 5:42 PM, Joel Willson wrote:
>> Hi, everyone.
>> So I'm a ceramics student in college and our studio's L&L Jupiter
>> kiln is
>> acting up. The middle section of elements is firing non-stop. We
>> just use
>> it for bisque firings to cone 07, and it originally started acting
>> up in
>> June. Originally it would get up to around 1100F then display Err-
>> d. I
>> cancelled the program so that the display was showing Idle, and
>> waited
>> until the next day to unload/reload it with more space around the
>> thermocouples.
Arnold Howard on tue 21 aug 12
On 8/13/2012 5:42 PM, Joel Willson wrote:
> I have no idea why that section would just constantly fire even though th=
e
> kiln is shut off, but I figured I'd ask you guys (and gals) before having
> someone come in to look at it. Any thoughts?
Joel, I assume the problem was a stuck relay as several people suggested.
I recommend disconnecting the kiln from the power when the kiln is not
in use. That would prevent a stuck relay from continuing to fire the
elements. Install a power cutoff switch near the kiln for convenience.
Stuck relays are fairly rare with ceramic kilns, unless your firing
schedules include long hold times or slow cooling segments.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
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