C. TS on fri 17 aug 12
Hi,
I understand more now. Still...for Steve or me, is it on its own breaker?
It does sound a kiln issue. You said you called the manufacturer. I
wondered if Skutt over in Portland would talk to you. Daniel and Perry are
both nice. They talk to me and you could even say that I mentioned them.
They are great at tech and helped me before I had a kiln to plan my shed.
;-) Also, Bob over at Georgie's is a good source, although you would have
to wait a bit. He is tending to some issues. Christi Runyan is also a good
person.
I wonder if it is the computer controller, if you could replace that if it
is having issues. Good luck! There might be diagnostics also.
Cheryl
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Gregg Lindsley wrote:
> hey john, I don't think that is the problem. your logic is impeccable,
> but i don't think it applies to my situation. I neglected to mention that
> my other kiln, of a higher amperage, does not do this. If what you are
> suggesting is the case, it would do it also. I do have 200 amps, but no a=
ir
> conditioner, a propane stove, wood heater, one tv, no hot tub, (I have a
> wood fired bathtub), and one computer that is not on at all times.
> all that constantly runs is the sat. receiver, the tv, the refrig when it
> runs, and a few lights. not nearly enough to overload a 200 amp service.
> the kiln is 43 amps.
> Whatever is going on is particular to this kiln itself.
>
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 1:00 PM, JRodgers wrote:
>
> > Gregg,
> >
> > The lights in the house dimming when the contacts close indicates to me
> > that your house service is just about maxed out. You may have to upgrad=
e
> > the service on the house. Though many homes today ave 400 amp service,
> most
> > homes of any vintage have a 200 amp service and many really old homes
> have
> > only a 100 amp service. With Air Conditioners, electric stoves,
> > refrigerators, computers, multiple TV's etc, in a house, a 200 amp
> service
> > can be run up on really quick. The added load of a kiln can about max o=
ut
> > the house circuit. If you can hear the relays clicking in the kiln as i=
t
> > powers on and off, then in all likelihood all is well with the kiln. Bu=
t
> on
> > a house service at its limit that surge load each time the relay fires =
is
> > enough to push the system to the limit. I would recommend yoiu having a=
n
> > electrician take a look at the situation. Be safe.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > On 8/17/2012 1:16 PM, Gregg Lindsley wrote:
> >
> >> Every time the 'contacts' close, the lights in the house dim just
> >> for a moment.
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Gregg Lindsley
> Earth and Fire Pottery
> P.O. Box 402
> Cobb, Ca., 95426
> 707-490-7168
> www.earthandfirepottery.net
> "Tomorrow is just your future yesterday"
>
Gregg Lindsley on fri 17 aug 12
So, here's todays question. I have recently bought a new to me kiln from
someone who lost their house and had to move. good deal. It is computer
controlled, and made somewhere in the mid 90's. All the contacts and wire
visible inside the control box are clean and tight. The connections from
the kiln to the interrupt and from the interrupt to the main panel are
tight. Every time the 'contacts' close, the lights in the house dim just
for a moment. Very short duration, but noticeable. Being a computer
controlled kiln, I don't know where the contacts are.
I called the factory rep that made the kiln, and he said that's ok, it's
normal. Well, to paraphrase lex luthor, 'It's not that I don't trust the
answer but....... I don't trust the answer." I have not had an electric
kiln that does this. When fooling with electricity, I don't want to mess
around. the question is: is this indeed normal and not something to worry
about and get fixed?
ok, a second question: is there any printed info, on the internet or
otherwise, that explains in a general or specific way, how a computer
controller operates? the theory involved? I know about the non computer
controlled kilns, and how they work, but not about where the contacts are
or what can be observed and fixed by this potter.
I look forward to your replies.
--
Gregg Lindsley
Earth and Fire Pottery
P.O. Box 402
Cobb, Ca., 95426
707-490-7168
www.earthandfirepottery.net
"Tomorrow is just your future yesterday"
JRodgers on fri 17 aug 12
Gregg,
The lights in the house dimming when the contacts close indicates to me
that your house service is just about maxed out. You may have to upgrade
the service on the house. Though many homes today ave 400 amp service,
most homes of any vintage have a 200 amp service and many really old
homes have only a 100 amp service. With Air Conditioners, electric
stoves, refrigerators, computers, multiple TV's etc, in a house, a 200
amp service can be run up on really quick. The added load of a kiln can
about max out the house circuit. If you can hear the relays clicking in
the kiln as it powers on and off, then in all likelihood all is well
with the kiln. But on a house service at its limit that surge load each
time the relay fires is enough to push the system to the limit. I would
recommend yoiu having an electrician take a look at the situation. Be safe.
Regards,
John
On 8/17/2012 1:16 PM, Gregg Lindsley wrote:
> Every time the 'contacts' close, the lights in the house dim just
> for a moment.
Carl Ross on fri 17 aug 12
Gregg-
the thing to consider is the amperage your electrical service is and the=3D=
20=3D
amperage drawn by the kiln.=3D20
I agree with the tech you talked to, if anything it would draw less curre=
=3D
nt if=3D20
there were bad connections.
your main breaker and what you have on it will let you know just how much=
=3D
it=3D20
can handle, it actually being the transformer... but we won't get too=3D20
complicated here... things are never all on at the same time and a 20a br=
=3D
eaker=3D20
is never using 20a unless there is trouble...=3D20=3D20
your lights dim down like that because you only have so much flow coming=3D=
20=3D
through
I like to use the analogy of a water hose:=3D20=3D20
if you have a hose running and tee off a bunch of sprinklers, the when th=
=3D
ose=3D20
sprinklers are all going at the same time they all slow down, but the flo=
=3D
w=3D20
through the hose doesn't decrease at all.... the hose only has so much=3D20=
=3D
pressure behind it and they all lose the pressure....=3D20=3D20
if you are drawing close to what the power company gives you, your overal=
=3D
l=3D20
lighting will drop down in brightness...
I hope this helps a little, I would check in with an electrician, but I h=
=3D
ighly=3D20
doubt there is any trouble with the kiln itself...
Carl in AZ
Gregg Lindsley on fri 17 aug 12
hey john, I don't think that is the problem. your logic is impeccable,
but i don't think it applies to my situation. I neglected to mention that
my other kiln, of a higher amperage, does not do this. If what you are
suggesting is the case, it would do it also. I do have 200 amps, but no air
conditioner, a propane stove, wood heater, one tv, no hot tub, (I have a
wood fired bathtub), and one computer that is not on at all times.
all that constantly runs is the sat. receiver, the tv, the refrig when it
runs, and a few lights. not nearly enough to overload a 200 amp service.
the kiln is 43 amps.
Whatever is going on is particular to this kiln itself.
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 1:00 PM, JRodgers wrote:
> Gregg,
>
> The lights in the house dimming when the contacts close indicates to me
> that your house service is just about maxed out. You may have to upgrade
> the service on the house. Though many homes today ave 400 amp service, mo=
st
> homes of any vintage have a 200 amp service and many really old homes hav=
e
> only a 100 amp service. With Air Conditioners, electric stoves,
> refrigerators, computers, multiple TV's etc, in a house, a 200 amp servic=
e
> can be run up on really quick. The added load of a kiln can about max out
> the house circuit. If you can hear the relays clicking in the kiln as it
> powers on and off, then in all likelihood all is well with the kiln. But =
on
> a house service at its limit that surge load each time the relay fires is
> enough to push the system to the limit. I would recommend yoiu having an
> electrician take a look at the situation. Be safe.
>
> Regards,
>
> John
>
>
> On 8/17/2012 1:16 PM, Gregg Lindsley wrote:
>
>> Every time the 'contacts' close, the lights in the house dim just
>> for a moment.
>>
>
>
--
Gregg Lindsley
Earth and Fire Pottery
P.O. Box 402
Cobb, Ca., 95426
707-490-7168
www.earthandfirepottery.net
"Tomorrow is just your future yesterday"
ksavino@BUCKEYE-EXPRESS.COM on sat 18 aug 12
Gregg: Dude, hi.
This is the part where somebody suggests you Talk To A Professional.
Might as well be me: My mom used to dance around the kitchen in her canvas =
flats singing this 1950s PSA whenever my dad did wiring projects:
"EEEEE-lectical wiring's a tricky proposition...
Don't be am amateur E-Lec-trician!
Remember the homes
and the lives that were lost
when the home electrician got his wires crossed!"
I had an electrician come in and upgrade all my wiring when I put in the bi=
g kiln. I felt very responsible.
Then one hot July when I was firing and we were running the heat-wave-emerg=
ency-only air conditioner, I heard popping sounds and saw sparks drifting d=
own past my kitchen window. I thought neighbor kids were throwing firecrack=
ers at my house, until I saw the big black line that ran from the pole out =
front to my house blow itself off my house, snake around on the driveway, a=
nd land in a bush which burst into flames.
Using my best "really I am not panicking" pseudo calm mary poppins voice, I=
sent my littles out to the tree house with instructions to stay there, and=
called 911. The firefighters (why are firefighters always handsome?) came =
and blocked things off until the electric company got there.
Turns out the power from the street to my house was decades old, and the cu=
rrent so hot it melted the black covering so the two lines touched. Very dr=
amatic.
Fortunately nothing was fried in the kiln, the city covered the upgrade and=
my kids got to chat wide-eyed with the firefighters and check out the shin=
y red truck and all was well.
Yours
Kelly in Ohio
primalpotter.com
Don Goodrich on sun 19 aug 12
Hi Gregg,
Looks like you have good advice already, but here are a couple more tho=
=3D
ughts.
Is there any chance that the new (to you) kiln was originally wired for a=
=3D
different=3D20
voltage, or even for 3-phase power? That could make a difference in the=3D2=
0=3D
electrical behavior when it's operating.=3D20
I'd want to get an ammeter and a voltmeter on the power lines to each of =
=3D
your=3D20
kilns, and check how much current each is really drawing and how much the=
=3D
=3D20
voltage is dropping when the lights dim. It would be good to know whether=
=3D
the=3D20
rated amperage on the kilns' ID plate is accurate.=3D20
It's worth calling a professional, but hopefully it'll be someone wo know=
=3D
s kilns, will=3D20
let you watch and will honestly answer your questions.
Cheers,
Don Goodrich
Arnold Howard on tue 21 aug 12
On 8/17/2012 1:16 PM, Gregg Lindsley wrote:
> is there any printed info, on the internet or
> otherwise, that explains in a general or specific way, how a computer
> controller operates? the theory involved?
Gregg, the contacts are hidden inside relays, which are located in the
kiln's main switch box. Open the switch box. You will find wires
attached to the element connectors. In most kilns, the other ends of
those wires are connected to the relays.
Here is a chart that explains the theory behind a digital controller:
http://www.paragonweb.com/files/manuals/Digital_Controller_Made_Simple.pdf
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Neil Estrick on tue 21 aug 12
If it's not tripping the breaker, then the kiln is most likely not drawin=
=3D
g too much=3D20
amperage. And even if it was drawing a little too much, I wouldn't expect=
=3D
any=3D20
difference in its behavior.
A computerized kiln is either 100% on or 100% off. It increases temperatu=
=3D
re by=3D20
cycling the elements on and off. That's why you hear the relays clicking =
=3D
so=3D20
much, especially at the beginning of a firing. It only keeps the elements=
=3D
powered=3D20
up for a short time in order to increase the temperature slowly. The comp=
=3D
uter=3D20
knows how hot the kiln is via the thermocouple(s), and cycles on and off=3D=
20=3D
according to it program. If the kiln needs to be at X temperature at Y ti=
=3D
me in the=3D20
firing, then it powers up the elements to achieve that heat.
There is nothing wrong with your controller, as far as the dimming lights=
=3D
go. It=3D20
runs on 24 volts. All it does is send a signal to activate or de-activate=
=3D
the relays.
As to why your lights are dimming, I'd have the service wire connections=3D=
20=3D
checked. Also make sure they used large enough wiring for the kiln, and y=
=3D
ou're=3D20
not experiencing a voltage drop.
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