Sumi von Dassow on tue 21 aug 12
I throw standing and just got a rubber mat this week, like Jeff! - but I
keep a tall stool behind me so I can alternate between standing and
perching on the stool. When I am standing I don't keep a foot on the
pedal, of course, just touch it with a toe when I need to change the
speed. I find I can lean on the wheel with my midsection and that takes
some of the stress off the feet and also allows me to really lean into
the clay.
Sumi
>> So what was I doing wrong. I tried throwing standing and found my feet
>> barking at me.
>> Using the pedal with one foot and having to place most of my weight on t=
he
>> other.
>> there was no ability to raise the pedal and I wouldn't have liked that
>> position either.
> I recommend lowering the foot pedal , or raising your body(and left foot)=
so the
> weight shift is not as extreme...that is what I have done for the last 20=
years, along with using a rubberized mat to stand on.
>
>
> Jeff Brown
> www.jeffbrownpottery.com
>
>
Gayle Bair on tue 21 aug 12
So what was I doing wrong. I tried throwing standing and found my feet
barking at me.
Using the pedal with one foot and having to place most of my weight on the
other.
there was no ability to raise the pedal and I wouldn't have liked that
position either.
It was just an experiment as there was a wheel set up that way in a
classroom so I tried it.
Spent a couple hours at it and realized sitting is more comfortable for me.
Maybe it's because I'm so dang short!;-)
Gayle
Gayle Bair Pottery
gayle@claybair.com
www.claybair.com
On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Taylor Hendrix wro=
te:
> Curtis,
>
> You do not need a level wheel to throw pots. Close enough is good enough.=
I
> think you are just suffering from a learning curve. I too had problems at
> first centering clay, but I just needed to gain a feel for the new body
> position. Glick wrote a great article about his back problems and
> subsequent stand-up throwing. He even has sketches of his support board f=
or
> his back. I do not use any support at this time but have learned to lean
> into my clay (not huge amounts of it) and use the splash pan for more
> throwing support. Finding the throwing height that causes no back pain
> while throwing is very important. I learned the hard way that any error i=
n
> the height causes (for me) serious back pain and spasms.
>
> As to centering, if I can get it, I use sooooooft clay which allows me to
> center with less force. I have adapted my centering to take advantage of
> opposing hands (especially with small amounts of clay) when I can and
> leaning into the clay ball, one foot in front of the other, elbow into
> body, when necessary. If you have good arm strength, you might even try
> leaning back from the clay to center.
>
> I too use a VL Whisper, but have my wheel up on a wooden platform I built
> just for it. I plan on adding a built crib around the wheel head for
> catching trimmings etc and allowing me to lean my forearms at the wheel f=
or
> more support. Good luck with your switch.
>
>
> Taylor, in Rockport TX
> wirerabbit1 on Skype (-0600 UTC)
> http://wirerabbit.blogspot.com
> http://wirerabbitpots.blogspot.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/wirerabbit/
> https://youtube.com/thewirerabbit
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Curtis Adkins > >wrote:
>
> > Hello Everybody,
> >
> > I am trying to throw standing up and am having major problems. First an=
d
> > foremost, centering is nearly impossible. I can't seem to get my wheel
> > anywhere near level. Secondly, at belly button height, I can't seem to
> get
> > much pressure on my ball of clay. I'm 5'7" and I cannot throw sitting
> > anymore due to a bad back and a touch of sciatica. Any and all advice
> would
> > greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Oh, I am using a Shimpo VL Whisper on top of cinder blocks...I was only
> > slightly off plumb on the ground, (garage floor) but now it is much
> worse.
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > *Sincerely,
> > Curtis Adkins
> >
> > http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=3Dhome#!/profile.php?id=3D57640164=
0
> > http://www.zazzle.com/monk64
> > http://twitter.com/Monk1964
> > http://d-monk-1982.blogspot.com/
> > *
> >
>
Jeff Brown on tue 21 aug 12
On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 12:15:58 -0700, Gayle Bair wrote=
=3D
:
>So what was I doing wrong. I tried throwing standing and found my feet
>barking at me.
>Using the pedal with one foot and having to place most of my weight on t=
=3D
he
>other.
>there was no ability to raise the pedal and I wouldn't have liked that
>position either.
I recommend lowering the foot pedal , or raising your body(and left foot)=
=3D
so the=3D20
weight shift is not as extreme...that is what I have done for the last 20=
=3D
years, along with using a rubberized mat to stand on.
Jeff Brown
www.jeffbrownpottery.com
James Freeman on wed 22 aug 12
On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Curtis Adkins :
I am trying to throw standing up and am having major problems. First and
foremost, centering is nearly impossible. I can't seem to get my wheel
anywhere near level. Secondly, at belly button height, I can't seem to
get much pressure on my ball of clay.
Curtis...
I can't speak to throwing while standing, but I might be able to offer some
help with the centering problem.
For small amounts of clay, say a pound or two, I center as you do, just
muscle pressure, right hand pushing in, left pushing down, and force the
clay into the center.
For a bit more clay, say up to 5 pounds, I switch hands. I brace my left
elbow against my body, then let the wheel force the clay against the heel
of my left hand, on the wrong side of the clay, my right hand merely adding
control and a bit of downward force. By employing the "wrong" hand on the
wrong side, I let the wheel do the work, and much less pressure is needed.
For larger amounts of clay, up to maybe 20 pounds or so (and even sometimes
for small amounts, especially when the clay is stiff), I "cone" the clay.
This involves using the outside edges of both hands (the karate chop part),
palms up, to raise the clay up into a tall, narrow cone, then immediately
flipping the hands over and pushing the clay back down and to center. A
couple or repetitions is all it takes to center even a large, unruly, and
recalcitrant lump of clay, and very little pressure is required. A trick
to make this even easier and more efficient is to raise the cone, but then
push it away from you (perhaps a 15 degree angle or so) before bringing it
back down. I haven't yet figured out the physics for why bending the cone
over works, but it makes the clay end up almost perfectly on center every
time.
For larger amounts yet, say 20-50 pounds, I will typically center only the
outside of the clay. Cone the lump up the best you can, then as you are
pushing the cone down, allow it to "mushroom" over the top, spreading this
mushroom cap all the way down to the batt over the lump of clay. Very easy
to do, and the only thing you have to watch out for is that you don't trap
large pockets of slop between the core of uncentered clay and the centered
outside clay.
For very large amounts of clay, 50 pounds and up, I usually center with a
mallet. I use a custom mallet I made out of three layers of laminated 2x4,
one end band sawn into a handle, and the whole thing covered with an old
sock so it does not stick to the clay. A sock-covered rubber mallet from
the store will work too, but the square edges of the wooden mallet lets you
get closer to the batt. All you do is get the lump of clay spinning slowly
on the wheel, then keep bopping it rhythmically as it rotates. Very easy
to do, and almost no force required on your part.
Try left hand centering first, then try coning. You will center the clay
with ease, and with much less muscle and pressure required.
And yes, as Taylor said, a level wheel is not too important for most
ordinary throwing, provided you throw perpendicular to the wheel head. The
problem is, the human mind is quite adept at reckoning plumb, and your
natural tendency will be to try to throw a true vertical form. If your
wheel is tipped, you will be wrenching your clay back and forth as the
wheel spins. For low forms this tends not to be an issue, but for tall or
large forms, throwing perpendicular to the wheel head or having a
relatively level wheel is important.
I hope it helps.
...James
James Freeman
"Talk sense to a fool, and he calls you foolish."
-Euripides
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
JRodgers on wed 22 aug 12
James,
I'm with you all the way. You throw much like I do - except for the
last bit about the wooden/rubber mallet. Never done that but that is a
really good thing to know. And I have the perfect wood mallet - a
"footprint" made in Sheffield England. Got it from a fine woodworking
tools catalog a long time ago. Rarely ever used, but I am about to put
it to work! Thanks for that one!
John
On 8/22/2012 10:08 AM, James Freeman wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Curtis Adkins te:
>
> I am trying to throw standing up and am having major problems. First and
> foremost, centering is nearly impossible. I can't seem to get my wheel
> anywhere near level. Secondly, at belly button height, I can't seem to
> get much pressure on my ball of clay.
>
>
>
>
> Curtis...
>
> I can't speak to throwing while standing, but I might be able to offer so=
me
> help with the centering problem.
>
> For small amounts of clay, say a pound or two, I center as you do, just
> muscle pressure, right hand pushing in, left pushing down, and force the
> clay into the center.
>
> For a bit more clay, say up to 5 pounds, I switch hands. I brace my left
> elbow against my body, then let the wheel force the clay against the heel
> of my left hand, on the wrong side of the clay, my right hand merely addi=
ng
> control and a bit of downward force. By employing the "wrong" hand on th=
e
> wrong side, I let the wheel do the work, and much less pressure is needed=
.
>
> For larger amounts of clay, up to maybe 20 pounds or so (and even sometim=
es
> for small amounts, especially when the clay is stiff), I "cone" the clay.
> This involves using the outside edges of both hands (the karate chop part=
),
> palms up, to raise the clay up into a tall, narrow cone, then immediately
> flipping the hands over and pushing the clay back down and to center. A
> couple or repetitions is all it takes to center even a large, unruly, and
> recalcitrant lump of clay, and very little pressure is required. A trick
> to make this even easier and more efficient is to raise the cone, but the=
n
> push it away from you (perhaps a 15 degree angle or so) before bringing i=
t
> back down. I haven't yet figured out the physics for why bending the con=
e
> over works, but it makes the clay end up almost perfectly on center every
> time.
>
> For larger amounts yet, say 20-50 pounds, I will typically center only th=
e
> outside of the clay. Cone the lump up the best you can, then as you are
> pushing the cone down, allow it to "mushroom" over the top, spreading thi=
s
> mushroom cap all the way down to the batt over the lump of clay. Very ea=
sy
> to do, and the only thing you have to watch out for is that you don't tra=
p
> large pockets of slop between the core of uncentered clay and the centere=
d
> outside clay.
>
> For very large amounts of clay, 50 pounds and up, I usually center with a
> mallet. I use a custom mallet I made out of three layers of laminated 2x=
4,
> one end band sawn into a handle, and the whole thing covered with an old
> sock so it does not stick to the clay. A sock-covered rubber mallet from
> the store will work too, but the square edges of the wooden mallet lets y=
ou
> get closer to the batt. All you do is get the lump of clay spinning slow=
ly
> on the wheel, then keep bopping it rhythmically as it rotates. Very easy
> to do, and almost no force required on your part.
>
> Try left hand centering first, then try coning. You will center the clay
> with ease, and with much less muscle and pressure required.
>
> And yes, as Taylor said, a level wheel is not too important for most
> ordinary throwing, provided you throw perpendicular to the wheel head. T=
he
> problem is, the human mind is quite adept at reckoning plumb, and your
> natural tendency will be to try to throw a true vertical form. If your
> wheel is tipped, you will be wrenching your clay back and forth as the
> wheel spins. For low forms this tends not to be an issue, but for tall o=
r
> large forms, throwing perpendicular to the wheel head or having a
> relatively level wheel is important.
>
> I hope it helps.
>
> ...James
>
> James Freeman
>
> "Talk sense to a fool, and he calls you foolish."
> -Euripides
>
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
>
Pottery by John on wed 22 aug 12
I noticed when attending pottery classes, where Brent Cs were standard, tha=
t
I was starting to develop more of a back problem than I had already. When =
I
bought a wheel for my own studio one of the first things I did was replace
the legs such that I was seated (on a standard wood barstool), but still
closer to a standing position. This allows my legs to stretch out somewhat,
but does not require me to stand on one leg whilst operating the foot speed
control with the other. I have also noted that many stand up throwers move
the speed control up and adjust the speed with their hand (which requires
learning to throw at a single speed, or to adjust quickly if not.) Unless
I am centering well over ten pounds I do not need to stand to center, but I
do make the pug as round as I can, and get it on the center of the
wheelhead, before proceeding further. The method using both hands opposing
to raise and lower the clay while centering works very well from my seated
position.
On leveling the wheel, I use a round bubble center I picked up at a home
improvement store; works like a champ for the wheel and also for leveling
pot rims or bases when using a chuck or chum for trimming.
I expect you just need to find the right combination for you. Good luck on
a quick solution. I am reminded of how well my solution worked out every
time I throw on a standard height wheel.
John Lowes
Sandy Springs, Georgia
http://wynhillpottery.weebly.com/
Michael Mahan on thu 23 aug 12
Finding the correct height for your wheel when learning to throw =3D
standing up can be a challenge. To me, belly button high sounds too =3D
high. I throw with the wheel head a few inches below my belt buckle. My =3D
son raises his wheel a little above that, but his wheel height is =3D
uncomfortable for me.
By having the height of your wheel low enough, you'll find that you need =
=3D
to bend over and/or bend your knees when centering. You might back away =3D
from the wheel a bit and lean into the clay, maybe placing one foot =3D
behind you, or maybe squatting evenly. It all depends on the technique =3D
you find that best fits your style of throwing. I like to make a small =3D
platform out of wood to set the wheel on, and if I'm throwing plates, I =3D
usually set couple of 2x4s under the legs to raise the height.
For throwing pots other than plates, I usually center by bending over =3D
and leaning into the wheel head, then stand up tall to start my pulls, =3D
sometimes propping my right leg up on the small platform and resting my =3D
right elbow on my right knee creating a fulcrum to assist in pulling the =
=3D
first few pulls.
Michael Mahan
=3D46rom the Ground Up
172 Crestwood Road
Robbins, NC 27325
910-464-6228
www.fromthegrounduppots.blogspot.com
William Schran on thu 23 aug 12
---- Michael Mahan wrote:
> Finding the correct height for your wheel when learning to throw standing=
up can be a challenge. To me, belly button high sounds too high. I throw w=
ith the wheel head a few inches below my belt buckle. My son raises his whe=
el a little above that, but his wheel height is uncomfortable for me.
I have found in addition to correct height is also position of the wheel. A=
t school I have two wheels set up for standing. One is against the wall. Th=
e other is set out from the wall. With this wheel, one stands between the w=
all and wheel and use the wall to provide additional stability by having yo=
ur back/butt against the wall.
Bill
Hank Murrow on thu 23 aug 12
On Aug 23, 2012, at 10:07 AM, William Schran wrote:
> ---- Michael Mahan wrote:
>> Finding the correct height for your wheel when learning to throw =3D
standing up can be a challenge. To me, belly button high sounds too =3D
high. I throw with the wheel head a few inches below my belt buckle. My =3D
son raises his wheel a little above that, but his wheel height is =3D
uncomfortable for me.
>=3D20
> I have found in addition to correct height is also position of the =3D
wheel. At school I have two wheels set up for standing. One is against =3D
the wall. The other is set out from the wall. With this wheel, one =3D
stands between the wall and wheel and use the wall to provide additional =
=3D
stability by having your back/butt against the wall.
And worthwhile pointing out that John Glick has a stiff foam rubber =3D
block positioned on the wall just where his lumbar region needs support.
Cheers, Hank in Eugene=3D
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