Lee on fri 24 aug 12
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 9:32 PM, John Post wrot=
=3D
e:
> dropped from $750 dollars down to $315. I don't think the art
> teachers are bright enough to realize the district has shifted the
> school art supply budgets onto their backs.
John , you should put a Paypal donation button at your web site to
collect money for your classes. You are very generous with your
knowledge and you tube videos. Folks would be more than happy to pay
you back for your effort.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on fri 24 aug 12
Hi John, all...
Artists as 'suckers'?
Have a look into School System's "CAFR"s...pick any School System you like.
One may seek out info from various sources, on-line or otherwise. The info
is Public Record, but, typically, is unknown to the Public.
Little Video here..one place to begin, if one likes -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D2__ZsQSQirc
And, of course, they can not afford 'Pencils' for their 'pupils' anymore.
Phil
L v
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Post"
> My school district asks art teachers to donate art for an auction at
> an event they host yearly called "arts and idols". It's a singing/
> talent show and art auction. The district keeps 50% of the sale price
> and puts this money into something they call an education foundation.
> The art teacher gets the other 50% but must use it to purchase art
> supplies for the schools they teach at.
>
> I donated and sold three pieces the first year before I knew how the
> funds would be allocated. Someone on the event committee contacted me
> the second year and asked why I didn't donate pots that year. I told
> them if I wanted to donate my own money to my school's art program I'd
> rather sell the pots myself and keep 100% of the money instead of 50%.
>
> The other art teachers in my district think the auction is a great way
> to make money for their art programs. In the 11 years I have worked
> in this district my supply budget at each school that I teach at has
> dropped from $750 dollars down to $315. I don't think the art
> teachers are bright enough to realize the district has shifted the
> school art supply budgets onto their backs.
>
> John Post
> Sterling Heights, Michigan
>
> http://www.johnpost.us
>
> Follow me on Twitter
> https://twitter.com/UCSArtTeacher
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 24, 2012, at 9:52 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
>
>> i was just laughing to myself...after i sent that last post.
>>
>> i wonder how many times the public has said to
>> an artist....`how lucky you are, you love your work
>> and do art for fun and personal pleasure.`
>>
>> they never think you should charge for it.
>> and, how many artists perpetuate the myth?
>> lots of them. `oh, my, i work from my soul.`
>> then you should never charge for soul work.
>>
>> it is like the folks from the church or some other
>> institution that ask artists to design, build, make, letter,
>> paint something...and are shocked that you do not share
>> their passion and want money for your work.
>>
>> as i always tell them...does the electric company give you
>> free electricity, does the plumber work free????
>>
>> my pal jerry korte, my teaching partner at ely, mn high school
>> for my first year told me.
>> `mel, make a simple bill of services stationary, and when you
>> do work for folks, just bill them....like 4 hours of art work @ 20
>> bucks
>> an hour. so, final bill $80.
>>
>> they probably won't pay the bill, but they will never bother you
>> again.`
>> i still laugh about that. but, i still do it.
>> most pay. you have to establish that you expect equal pay for equal
>> work.
>> most do not understand that, they buy the artist myth.
>> as pogo said...`we found the enemy, it was us.`
>>
>> and don't get me started at how people work over my wife to do
>> special calligraphic projects. `my son wrote this poem in high school
>> and will you dash it off with calligraphy i can frame
>> it is only 58 lines`....pay for it...oh no.
>> 6 hours work, measure, make a mock up, then a final.
>> if she really likes the people she may do it, then add a bill like
>> this:
>> 6 hours of calligraphy, $135/given to you as a gift. they usually
>> have a red
>> face and never bother her again...unless they want to pay.
>> and, the word does spread.
>> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
>> clayart page below:
>> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
>> http://www.21stcenturykilns.com/
Gayle Bair on fri 24 aug 12
Interesting that this discussion cropped up now.
I was approached to donate pieces as a fundraiser for a new local Art
Museum that is mind-bogglingly being built in this economy. Are we
surprised that they are a year behind and lacking funds to complete it?
So I agreed and when I received the form they gave 3 choices...
1. 100% donation the item
2. 80% donation
or
3. 50% donation.
I fell into their intended guilt trip...debating what I should do.
Fortunately for the timing of this thread I'm gonna go with the 50% and not
lose a bit of sleep!
I give my pieces to people all the time. I do it when I see a need.....
last week's was to a guy who had had 2 strokes and fought back to what
seemed pretty normal. I like that I get to choose who is the recipient.
I expect like my expereince with the other "art" facilities I will reap no
benefit and honestly never look for it anymore.
So thanks....... this discussion saved me from continuing an internal
debate that was unproductive and a couple days old.
Gayle
Gayle Bair Pottery
gayle@claybair.com
www.claybair.com
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 7:32 PM, John Post wrote=
:
> My school district asks art teachers to donate art for an auction at
> an event they host yearly called "arts and idols". It's a singing/
> talent show and art auction. The district keeps 50% of the sale price
> and puts this money into something they call an education foundation.
> The art teacher gets the other 50% but must use it to purchase art
> supplies for the schools they teach at.
>
> I donated and sold three pieces the first year before I knew how the
> funds would be allocated. Someone on the event committee contacted me
> the second year and asked why I didn't donate pots that year. I told
> them if I wanted to donate my own money to my school's art program I'd
> rather sell the pots myself and keep 100% of the money instead of 50%.
>
> The other art teachers in my district think the auction is a great way
> to make money for their art programs. In the 11 years I have worked
> in this district my supply budget at each school that I teach at has
> dropped from $750 dollars down to $315. I don't think the art
> teachers are bright enough to realize the district has shifted the
> school art supply budgets onto their backs.
>
> John Post
> Sterling Heights, Michigan
>
> http://www.johnpost.us
>
> Follow me on Twitter
> https://twitter.com/**UCSArtTeacher
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 24, 2012, at 9:52 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
>
> i was just laughing to myself...after i sent that last post.
>>
>> i wonder how many times the public has said to
>> an artist....`how lucky you are, you love your work
>> and do art for fun and personal pleasure.`
>>
>> they never think you should charge for it.
>> and, how many artists perpetuate the myth?
>> lots of them. `oh, my, i work from my soul.`
>> then you should never charge for soul work.
>>
>> it is like the folks from the church or some other
>> institution that ask artists to design, build, make, letter,
>> paint something...and are shocked that you do not share
>> their passion and want money for your work.
>>
>> as i always tell them...does the electric company give you
>> free electricity, does the plumber work free????
>>
>> my pal jerry korte, my teaching partner at ely, mn high school
>> for my first year told me.
>> `mel, make a simple bill of services stationary, and when you
>> do work for folks, just bill them....like 4 hours of art work @ 20
>> bucks
>> an hour. so, final bill $80.
>>
>> they probably won't pay the bill, but they will never bother you
>> again.`
>> i still laugh about that. but, i still do it.
>> most pay. you have to establish that you expect equal pay for equal
>> work.
>> most do not understand that, they buy the artist myth.
>> as pogo said...`we found the enemy, it was us.`
>>
>> and don't get me started at how people work over my wife to do
>> special calligraphic projects. `my son wrote this poem in high school
>> and will you dash it off with calligraphy i can frame
>> it is only 58 lines`....pay for it...oh no.
>> 6 hours work, measure, make a mock up, then a final.
>> if she really likes the people she may do it, then add a bill like
>> this:
>> 6 hours of calligraphy, $135/given to you as a gift. they usually
>> have a red
>> face and never bother her again...unless they want to pay.
>> and, the word does spread.
>> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
>> clayart page below:
>> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/**clayart.htmlts/clayart.html>
>> >
>> http://www.**21stcenturykilns.com/
>>
>
mel jacobson on fri 24 aug 12
i was just laughing to myself...after i sent that last post.
i wonder how many times the public has said to
an artist....`how lucky you are, you love your work
and do art for fun and personal pleasure.`
they never think you should charge for it.
and, how many artists perpetuate the myth?
lots of them. `oh, my, i work from my soul.`
then you should never charge for soul work.
it is like the folks from the church or some other
institution that ask artists to design, build, make, letter,
paint something...and are shocked that you do not share
their passion and want money for your work.
as i always tell them...does the electric company give you
free electricity, does the plumber work free????
my pal jerry korte, my teaching partner at ely, mn high school
for my first year told me.
`mel, make a simple bill of services stationary, and when you
do work for folks, just bill them....like 4 hours of art work @ 20 bucks
an hour. so, final bill $80.
they probably won't pay the bill, but they will never bother you again.`
i still laugh about that. but, i still do it.
most pay. you have to establish that you expect equal pay for equal work.
most do not understand that, they buy the artist myth.
as pogo said...`we found the enemy, it was us.`
and don't get me started at how people work over my wife to do
special calligraphic projects. `my son wrote this poem in high school
and will you dash it off with calligraphy i can frame
it is only 58 lines`....pay for it...oh no.
6 hours work, measure, make a mock up, then a final.
if she really likes the people she may do it, then add a bill like this:
6 hours of calligraphy, $135/given to you as a gift. they usually have a r=
ed
face and never bother her again...unless they want to pay.
and, the word does spread.
http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart page below:
http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
http://www.21stcenturykilns.com/
John Post on fri 24 aug 12
My school district asks art teachers to donate art for an auction at
an event they host yearly called "arts and idols". It's a singing/
talent show and art auction. The district keeps 50% of the sale price
and puts this money into something they call an education foundation.
The art teacher gets the other 50% but must use it to purchase art
supplies for the schools they teach at.
I donated and sold three pieces the first year before I knew how the
funds would be allocated. Someone on the event committee contacted me
the second year and asked why I didn't donate pots that year. I told
them if I wanted to donate my own money to my school's art program I'd
rather sell the pots myself and keep 100% of the money instead of 50%.
The other art teachers in my district think the auction is a great way
to make money for their art programs. In the 11 years I have worked
in this district my supply budget at each school that I teach at has
dropped from $750 dollars down to $315. I don't think the art
teachers are bright enough to realize the district has shifted the
school art supply budgets onto their backs.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
http://www.johnpost.us
Follow me on Twitter
https://twitter.com/UCSArtTeacher
On Aug 24, 2012, at 9:52 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
> i was just laughing to myself...after i sent that last post.
>
> i wonder how many times the public has said to
> an artist....`how lucky you are, you love your work
> and do art for fun and personal pleasure.`
>
> they never think you should charge for it.
> and, how many artists perpetuate the myth?
> lots of them. `oh, my, i work from my soul.`
> then you should never charge for soul work.
>
> it is like the folks from the church or some other
> institution that ask artists to design, build, make, letter,
> paint something...and are shocked that you do not share
> their passion and want money for your work.
>
> as i always tell them...does the electric company give you
> free electricity, does the plumber work free????
>
> my pal jerry korte, my teaching partner at ely, mn high school
> for my first year told me.
> `mel, make a simple bill of services stationary, and when you
> do work for folks, just bill them....like 4 hours of art work @ 20
> bucks
> an hour. so, final bill $80.
>
> they probably won't pay the bill, but they will never bother you
> again.`
> i still laugh about that. but, i still do it.
> most pay. you have to establish that you expect equal pay for equal
> work.
> most do not understand that, they buy the artist myth.
> as pogo said...`we found the enemy, it was us.`
>
> and don't get me started at how people work over my wife to do
> special calligraphic projects. `my son wrote this poem in high school
> and will you dash it off with calligraphy i can frame
> it is only 58 lines`....pay for it...oh no.
> 6 hours work, measure, make a mock up, then a final.
> if she really likes the people she may do it, then add a bill like
> this:
> 6 hours of calligraphy, $135/given to you as a gift. they usually
> have a red
> face and never bother her again...unless they want to pay.
> and, the word does spread.
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
> clayart page below:
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
> http://www.21stcenturykilns.com/
Steve Mills on sat 25 aug 12
Lee,=3D20
if John does that the "District" gets away with it again and John's collect=
i=3D
ng is letting them off the hook. Educational Departments have a duty to fun=
d=3D
their Schools and Scholars properly out of the public purse, that's why we=
p=3D
ay taxes.=3D20
Careful examination of their budgets should reveal what they're up to so th=
a=3D
t if need be "whistles" can be blown and shortcomings made public.=3D20
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my iPod
On 25 Aug 2012, at 05:08, Lee wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 9:32 PM, John Post wr=
o=3D
te:
>=3D20
>> dropped from $750 dollars down to $315. I don't think the art
>> teachers are bright enough to realize the district has shifted the
>> school art supply budgets onto their backs.
>=3D20
> John , you should put a Paypal donation button at your web site to
> collect money for your classes. You are very generous with your
> knowledge and you tube videos. Folks would be more than happy to pay
> you back for your effort.
>=3D20
> --
> Lee Love in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>=3D20
> "Ta tIr na n-=3DC3=3DB3g ar chul an tI=3DE2=3D80=3D94tIr dlainn trina ch=
=3DC3=3DA9ile"=3DE2=3D
=3D80=3D94that is, "The
> land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
> within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Rimas VisGirda on sat 25 aug 12
Mel writes:
i wonder how many times the public has said to
an artist....`how lucky you are, you love your work
and do art for fun and personal pleasure.`
In the mid-80's I was in residence at Kohler, I many times worked late afte=
r the day shift was gone. Part of the off-shift cleanup was a guy who drove=
a "box" that looked somewhat like a zamboni up and down the aisles to scoo=
p up the scrap. One evening we struck up a conversation and I will never fo=
rget his comment "You artists have the great life, you get to draw those nu=
de models AND YOU GET TO POSE THEM ANY WAY YOU LIKE" (my caps for emphasis)=
...
-Rimas
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