KATHI LESUEUR on sun 26 aug 12
On Aug 26, 2012, at 8:46 AM, Randall Moody wrote:
> <aren't in
> one they really don't care or they are actively attempting to get you =3D
fired
> and replace with another union member.>>
>=3D20
Yes, Randall, unions protect unions. Or, more specifically, they protect =
=3D
their members. That is why people join a union. It is impossible for the =
=3D
average worker to go up against a company for better and safer work =3D
conditions, better products, reasonable work hours where every hour =3D
worked is paid, and living wages. In unions that are "open shop", =3D
employees are not required to join the union. But, those that don't =3D
still reap the benefits of the unions efforts on behalf of the workers =3D
and the dues of the members. Those people only take, never put =3D
themselves out to make conditions better for their fellow employees. In =
=3D
so called "right to work states" ( which I call right to get screwed =3D
states) all shops are open shops. Management has enormous powers to =3D
intimidate workers to prevent them from voting for a union. Anyone who =3D
is known to be organizing is fired.
I've belonged to two unions in my work career. The first was the UAW. I =3D
was a student working at night full-time at the Fisher Body Plant in =3D
Willow Run, MI. It was 1969 and we were making Chevy Novas. There were =3D
things I agreed with and things I didn't. I agreed with the union when =3D
the plant management tried to speed up the line from sixty cars an hour =3D
to sixty-seven. Sixty cars an hour is a lot of cars to work on even if =3D
your job is only every third car. There were jobs where people jumped =3D
inside to do their job then jumped out and ran back as fast as they =3D
could to catch their next car. By the end of the night they could barely =
=3D
stand up. Speeding that line to sixty-seven cars would have made a very =3D
difficult job dangerous. =3D20
I didn't agree with the concept of "Thirty and out" which meant that I =3D
could retire after 30 years with full benefits. Many went to work there =
=3D
at eighteen. I didn't think GM owned them a living for the rest of their =
=3D
life at that age.=3D20
Many people claim the unions destroyed GM. But, it wasn't the unions who =
=3D
designed lousy cars. It wasn't the unions who didn't make sure parts =3D
were in the plant on time so that car were assembled and shipped to =3D
dealers without the right fenders. Causing GM to ship fenders all over =3D
the country that dealers had to install and paint. It wasn't the union =3D
who said to pass a car that the inspector had tagged as defective. Those =
=3D
were all management decisions.=3D20
The second union I joined was the Michigan Federation of Teachers. I =3D
didn't just join it, I started it. No one, including myself wanted a =3D
union. But as the school I was teaching at made more and more decisions =3D
that were detrimental to our kids (a residential treatment school for =3D
delinquent boys 13-17) and our complaints were ignored, we decided that =3D
was the only way. Not a teacher there was concerned about salary. We =3D
were concerned that at the end of a ten week term none of us knew who or =
=3D
what we were going to be teaching. We were concerned that there was no =3D
longer a school calendar so that we would be able to plan on kids going =3D
or not going home. We were concerned about the lack of materials to do =3D
our jobs. We were concerned that kids who were making great progress but =
=3D
were not liked by the executive director found themselves shipped off to =
=3D
a state mental hospital, not only affecting the kid sent, but the group =3D
who had given us their trust and pledged to help the very group members =
=3D
that had been shipped off.
Am I pro union? You bet ya. There isn't a company in this country that =3D
has a union that didn't deserve it when it got voted in. People don't =3D
like to join things. They have to be pretty fed up to take action. A =3D
company that treats its employees fairly, provides a safe environment, =3D
and pays a fair wage will never be unionized. The people just won't vote =
=3D
it in.=3D20
Keep in mind that when unions were prospering they set the bar and =3D
everyones wages and benefits improved. It was the most productive era in =
=3D
our history. Things got better for everyone. Now they only get better =3D
for a few. Unions were the middle class. If you want to know where all =3D
of those customers are who used to buy from you, they went the way of =3D
the unions. They are no longer in the middle class. They no longer can =3D
afford to buy and it isn't going to change any time soon.
And, one last question. If unions are so bad, especially teachers =3D
unions, then why doesn't Texas, who allows no teachers unions not have =3D
the best schools instead of being at the bottom?
=3D20
KATHI LESUEUR
http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
Nefsigh@AOL.COM on mon 27 aug 12
Kathy--You summed it up for me.
Lenny Dowhie
Former member of the Railroad Workers Union and AFL-CIO /Teachers Union.
In a message dated 8/26/2012 10:31:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
kathi@LESUEURCLAYWORK.COM writes:
On Aug 26, 2012, at 8:46 AM, Randall Moody wrote:
> <aren't in
> one they really don't care or they are actively attempting to get you
fired
> and replace with another union member.>>
>
Yes, Randall, unions protect unions. Or, more specifically, they protect
their members. That is why people join a union. It is impossible for the
average worker to go up against a company for better and safer work
conditions, better products, reasonable work hours where every hour worked=
is paid,
and living wages. In unions that are "open shop", employees are not requir=
ed
to join the union. But, those that don't still reap the benefits of the
unions efforts on behalf of the workers and the dues of the members. Those
people only take, never put themselves out to make conditions better for
their fellow employees. In so called "right to work states" ( which I cal=
l
right to get screwed states) all shops are open shops. Management has enor=
mous
powers to intimidate workers to prevent them from voting for a union.
Anyone who is known to be organizing is fired.
I've belonged to two unions in my work career. The first was the UAW. I
was a student working at night full-time at the Fisher Body Plant in Willo=
w
Run, MI. It was 1969 and we were making Chevy Novas. There were things I
agreed with and things I didn't. I agreed with the union when the plant
management tried to speed up the line from sixty cars an hour to sixty-sev=
en.
Sixty cars an hour is a lot of cars to work on even if your job is only ev=
ery
third car. There were jobs where people jumped inside to do their job then
jumped out and ran back as fast as they could to catch their next car. By
the end of the night they could barely stand up. Speeding that line to
sixty-seven cars would have made a very difficult job dangerous.
I didn't agree with the concept of "Thirty and out" which meant that I
could retire after 30 years with full benefits. Many went to work there a=
t
eighteen. I didn't think GM owned them a living for the rest of their life =
at
that age.
Many people claim the unions destroyed GM. But, it wasn't the unions who
designed lousy cars. It wasn't the unions who didn't make sure parts were =
in
the plant on time so that car were assembled and shipped to dealers
without the right fenders. Causing GM to ship fenders all over the country=
that
dealers had to install and paint. It wasn't the union who said to pass a c=
ar
that the inspector had tagged as defective. Those were all management
decisions.
The second union I joined was the Michigan Federation of Teachers. I
didn't just join it, I started it. No one, including myself wanted a union=
. But
as the school I was teaching at made more and more decisions that were
detrimental to our kids (a residential treatment school for delinquent boy=
s
13-17) and our complaints were ignored, we decided that was the only way. =
Not
a teacher there was concerned about salary. We were concerned that at the
end of a ten week term none of us knew who or what we were going to be
teaching. We were concerned that there was no longer a school calendar so =
that
we would be able to plan on kids going or not going home. We were concerne=
d
about the lack of materials to do our jobs. We were concerned that kids wh=
o
were making great progress but were not liked by the executive director
found themselves shipped off to a state mental hospital, not only affectin=
g
the kid sent, but the group who had given us their trust and pledged to he=
lp
the very group members that had been shipped off.
Am I pro union? You bet ya. There isn't a company in this country that has
a union that didn't deserve it when it got voted in. People don't like to
join things. They have to be pretty fed up to take action. A company that
treats its employees fairly, provides a safe environment, and pays a fair
wage will never be unionized. The people just won't vote it in.
Keep in mind that when unions were prospering they set the bar and
everyones wages and benefits improved. It was the most productive era in o=
ur
history. Things got better for everyone. Now they only get better for a fe=
w.
Unions were the middle class. If you want to know where all of those custo=
mers
are who used to buy from you, they went the way of the unions. They are no
longer in the middle class. They no longer can afford to buy and it isn't
going to change any time soon.
And, one last question. If unions are so bad, especially teachers unions,
then why doesn't Texas, who allows no teachers unions not have the best
schools instead of being at the bottom?
KATHI LESUEUR
http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
Randall Moody on mon 27 aug 12
Kathi,
I am not going to go into this on ClayArt except to say that nothing you
posted contradicts what I wrote. Arguing about unions is akin to arguing
about religion.
On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 8:19 PM, KATHI LESUEUR w=
rote:
> On Aug 26, 2012, at 8:46 AM, Randall Moody wrote:
>
> > <> aren't in
> > one they really don't care or they are actively attempting to get you
> fired
> > and replace with another union member.>>
> >
>
>
> Yes, Randall, unions protect unions. Or, more specifically, they protect
> their members. That is why people join a union. It is impossible for the
> average worker to go up against a company for better and safer work
> conditions, better products, reasonable work hours where every hour worke=
d
> is paid, and living wages. In unions that are "open shop", employees are
> not required to join the union. But, those that don't still reap the
> benefits of the unions efforts on behalf of the workers and the dues of t=
he
> members. Those people only take, never put themselves out to make
> conditions better for their fellow employees. In so called "right to wor=
k
> states" ( which I call right to get screwed states) all shops are open
> shops. Management has enormous powers to intimidate workers to prevent th=
em
> from voting for a union. Anyone who is known to be organizing is fired.
>
> I've belonged to two unions in my work career. The first was the UAW. I
> was a student working at night full-time at the Fisher Body Plant in Will=
ow
> Run, MI. It was 1969 and we were making Chevy Novas. There were things I
> agreed with and things I didn't. I agreed with the union when the plant
> management tried to speed up the line from sixty cars an hour to
> sixty-seven. Sixty cars an hour is a lot of cars to work on even if your
> job is only every third car. There were jobs where people jumped inside t=
o
> do their job then jumped out and ran back as fast as they could to catch
> their next car. By the end of the night they could barely stand up.
> Speeding that line to sixty-seven cars would have made a very difficult j=
ob
> dangerous.
>
> I didn't agree with the concept of "Thirty and out" which meant that I
> could retire after 30 years with full benefits. Many went to work there =
at
> eighteen. I didn't think GM owned them a living for the rest of their lif=
e
> at that age.
>
> Many people claim the unions destroyed GM. But, it wasn't the unions who
> designed lousy cars. It wasn't the unions who didn't make sure parts were
> in the plant on time so that car were assembled and shipped to dealers
> without the right fenders. Causing GM to ship fenders all over the countr=
y
> that dealers had to install and paint. It wasn't the union who said to pa=
ss
> a car that the inspector had tagged as defective. Those were all manageme=
nt
> decisions.
>
> The second union I joined was the Michigan Federation of Teachers. I
> didn't just join it, I started it. No one, including myself wanted a unio=
n.
> But as the school I was teaching at made more and more decisions that wer=
e
> detrimental to our kids (a residential treatment school for delinquent bo=
ys
> 13-17) and our complaints were ignored, we decided that was the only way.
> Not a teacher there was concerned about salary. We were concerned that at
> the end of a ten week term none of us knew who or what we were going to b=
e
> teaching. We were concerned that there was no longer a school calendar so
> that we would be able to plan on kids going or not going home. We were
> concerned about the lack of materials to do our jobs. We were concerned
> that kids who were making great progress but were not liked by the
> executive director found themselves shipped off to a state mental hospita=
l,
> not only affecting the kid sent, but the group who had given us their tru=
st
> and pledged to help the very group members that had been shipped off.
>
> Am I pro union? You bet ya. There isn't a company in this country that ha=
s
> a union that didn't deserve it when it got voted in. People don't like to
> join things. They have to be pretty fed up to take action. A company that
> treats its employees fairly, provides a safe environment, and pays a fair
> wage will never be unionized. The people just won't vote it in.
>
> Keep in mind that when unions were prospering they set the bar and
> everyones wages and benefits improved. It was the most productive era in
> our history. Things got better for everyone. Now they only get better for=
a
> few. Unions were the middle class. If you want to know where all of those
> customers are who used to buy from you, they went the way of the unions.
> They are no longer in the middle class. They no longer can afford to buy
> and it isn't going to change any time soon.
>
> And, one last question. If unions are so bad, especially teachers unions,
> then why doesn't Texas, who allows no teachers unions not have the best
> schools instead of being at the bottom?
>
> KATHI LESUEUR
> http://www.lesueurclaywork.com
>
--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
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