mel jacobson on wed 29 aug 12
why is it...we sit and wonder.
college cost go up 20% per year let's say.
oh, too bad. we blame everyone else.
scream and yell. but, no one boycotts colleges. oh, too bad.
no one is anti education. pols want to increase funding
for the uofm.
i am paying 9.9 percent on a college loan
for my grand daughter. i can get a 30 year house loan at 2.9. why is that?
try and find a college loan at 2.9. the pols say that is the interest..oh =
yah.
my neighbor kid will pay $956 a month for 19 years.
he majored in english lit. not a job in site. he is basically a well
educated, bankrupt young man.
blame oil, blame coal, blame rich people. but, never colleges.
there are thousands of bureaucrats working at the universtity
of minnesota. many do nothing. very high wages.
actually i think faculty members are in the minority of employees
at major universities.
no one there ever loses a job. they ad jobs.
kids and families are paying the price.
now that is a scam.
and, i get a letter a month for me to donate money to the
university. and they want hundreds, not 25 bucks.
please check the box...500, 1000, or we will take your pension.
cargill here in minnesota just fired a 1000 people.
not a blip on the screen. those are good jobs.
the athletic director got `fired`...he gets a pension
of 300+ grand a year for the rest of his life.
the president just got `released` and he got the same
cush.
the basketball coach is the highest paid public employee in minnesota.
couple million a year.
can you spell sacred cow?
http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart page below:
http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
http://www.21stcenturykilns.com/
tony clennell on wed 29 aug 12
Mel: I went to Sheridan the other day to sign my Adjunct contract and
I could hardly find a parking spot. The students aren't there yet! How
can the parking lots be so full with no students? It's all the people
that work there full time. When the students get back they have to
park on private streets long walks away.
I once it heard an administrator say it was like a pyramid with the
student being the top of the pyramid. A guy stood up and said turn the
pyramid upside down and you have the real picture of a single student
with all that weight on his/her shoulders.
If the business model was applied to our program it would be axed in an ins=
tant.
t
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 7:53 AM, mel jacobson wrote:
> why is it...we sit and wonder.
> college cost go up 20% per year let's say.
>
> oh, too bad. we blame everyone else.
> scream and yell. but, no one boycotts colleges. oh, too bad.
> no one is anti education. pols want to increase funding
> for the uofm.
>
> i am paying 9.9 percent on a college loan
> for my grand daughter. i can get a 30 year house loan at 2.9. why is that=
?
> try and find a college loan at 2.9. the pols say that is the interest..o=
h
> yah.
> my neighbor kid will pay $956 a month for 19 years.
> he majored in english lit. not a job in site. he is basically a well
> educated, bankrupt young man.
>
> blame oil, blame coal, blame rich people. but, never colleges.
>
> there are thousands of bureaucrats working at the universtity
> of minnesota. many do nothing. very high wages.
> actually i think faculty members are in the minority of employees
> at major universities.
> no one there ever loses a job. they ad jobs.
> kids and families are paying the price.
> now that is a scam.
> and, i get a letter a month for me to donate money to the
> university. and they want hundreds, not 25 bucks.
> please check the box...500, 1000, or we will take your pension.
>
> cargill here in minnesota just fired a 1000 people.
> not a blip on the screen. those are good jobs.
>
> the athletic director got `fired`...he gets a pension
> of 300+ grand a year for the rest of his life.
> the president just got `released` and he got the same
> cush.
> the basketball coach is the highest paid public employee in minnesota.
> couple million a year.
> can you spell sacred cow?
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
> clayart page below:
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
> http://www.21stcenturykilns.com/
--
http://smokieclennell.blogspot.com
David McBeth on wed 29 aug 12
Many schools, big like the mighty U of Minnesota and tiny, like little ole
University of Tennessee at Martin, (my home for 21 years) are state run.
That means we are at the whim of the state legislatures. How may us us
would put are money in to a bank not run by bankers, or go to a hospital
not run by doctors or....? At least in Tennessee, as a state employee, I
answer to politicians, my dept chair, the dean, the provost and even the
chancellor - we all answer to the state legislature. We do not run our own
business. So maybe if you are looking for someplace to boycott Mel, wander
over to St Paul and give your legislator a visit. But we all saw how well
that went in Wisconsin. Better yet, stay home and make pots, it will be
better for your blood pressure.
This past summer, in Maine, lobster prices got so low the fisherman
couldn't afford to take their boats out. When was the last time you paid
$1.25 a pound for live lobster. Cheaper than hamburger or hot dogs. One
Sunday afternoon I got a call from a local fisherman/friend - "Dave, want
some lobster, they are cheep?" Sixteen lobster for twelve bucks, he asked
for $10, I gave him everything in my wallet. Last weekend, in a grocery
store in suburban St Louis, frozen lobster tails, $29.00 each (pound and a
quarter of frozen lobster)
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 6:53 AM, mel jacobson wrote:
> why is it...we sit and wonder.
> college cost go up 20% per year let's say.
>
> oh, too bad. we blame everyone else.
> scream and yell. but, no one boycotts colleges. oh, too bad.
> no one is anti education. pols want to increase funding
> for the uofm.
>
> i am paying 9.9 percent on a college loan
> for my grand daughter. i can get a 30 year house loan at 2.9. why is that=
?
> try and find a college loan at 2.9. the pols say that is the interest..o=
h
> yah.
> my neighbor kid will pay $956 a month for 19 years.
> he majored in english lit. not a job in site. he is basically a well
> educated, bankrupt young man.
>
> blame oil, blame coal, blame rich people. but, never colleges.
>
> there are thousands of bureaucrats working at the universtity
> of minnesota. many do nothing. very high wages.
> actually i think faculty members are in the minority of employees
> at major universities.
> no one there ever loses a job. they ad jobs.
> kids and families are paying the price.
> now that is a scam.
> and, i get a letter a month for me to donate money to the
> university. and they want hundreds, not 25 bucks.
> please check the box...500, 1000, or we will take your pension.
>
> cargill here in minnesota just fired a 1000 people.
> not a blip on the screen. those are good jobs.
>
> the athletic director got `fired`...he gets a pension
> of 300+ grand a year for the rest of his life.
> the president just got `released` and he got the same
> cush.
> the basketball coach is the highest paid public employee in minnesota.
> couple million a year.
> can you spell sacred cow?
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
> clayart page below:
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/**clayart.htmlclayart.html>
> >
> http://www.**21stcenturykilns.com/
>
--
David McBeth
Professor of Art
Department of Visual and Theatre Arts
University of Tennessee - Martin
731-881-7416
revivalsteph@yahoo.com on wed 29 aug 12
Use to be you could get government student loan for around 3% and that w=
=3D
as
in the 80s when interest rates were high..(in those days too, savings bon=
=3D
ds
paid 13%). That, Pell grants and work study , plus second jobs made it
possible to get through school. The costs nowdays are sky high, and its =
=3D
the
fees and textbooks, etc that add so much, without including tuition and
living costs.
then they started dinking around withthe loan program, as banks wanted mo=
=3D
re
of the student loan action..and voila.
it's ridiculous. on the other hand , a huge # of students where I taugh=
=3D
t
briefly last fall seemed to be on some sort of disability. not sure what
that was....
after glimpsing the belly of a lot of college hiring, eeesh. it's a
racket.There's a lot of folks there,part timers, who are working their bu=
=3D
tts
off for a pittance, and a lot of others higher up who don't have to answe=
=3D
r
to much...speaking in a broad brush of course, which means there are lots=
=3D
of
exceptions.
Bye now
have to go do some kickboxing with a priest. really
Stephani
Lee on wed 29 aug 12
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 10:01 AM, revivalsteph@yahoo.com
wrote:
> Use to be you could get government student loan for around 3% and that w=
=3D
as
> in the 80s when interest rates were high..(in those days too, savings bon=
=3D
ds
> paid 13%). That, Pell grants and work study , plus second jobs made it
> possible to get through school. The costs nowdays are sky high, and its =
=3D
the
> fees and textbooks, etc that add so much, without including tuition and
> living costs.
You point out how out of touch folks are with what it costs young
folks to go to school today. I remember paying as little as $12 a
credit hour. The whole time I was in school, tuition went up almost
every year (I took classes for 6 years after I graduated. Being a
student is in my blood.) I think when I left, undergrad was $36 a
credit hour. After my Sophomore year, scholarships and grants were
already beginning to be cut, that was in '74.
Education is an investment, unlike Pedator Drones or F35s.
I'd like to see a National Service program started. People could
choose to do their service in civilian or the military. And each
year they worked in a high risk, high need area, they would be given
forgiveness of one year of college tuition and fees.
When we talk about spending, we need to differentiate
between spending that goes down the rat hole and spending that is an
investment. We need to remember, as a society, every child is OUR
child.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Nefsigh@AOL.COM on wed 29 aug 12
While I think you hit on a few valid points, the idea of placing "blame"
is, IMO, a non starter anymore. If we are honest, we will conclude that
EVERYONE is to blame. We are to blame for demanding high quality education=
al
facilities (that means classrooms, technical goodies and their support, ne=
w or
constantly improving studios for the arts, new parking facilities for
students, new or upgraded dorms (wireless development isn't free) and we d=
emand
better athletic facilities, better teams, better coaches and all that goes
with that. I say "we" because it is obvious that the financial allocations
move to where the most demand is recognized. Thus, often the football or
basketball coach is the highest paid person on campus-and if he/she are
good, they also bring in the most money to the campus--hence the business =
model
that Tony talked about is indeed in full operation.
As to "excess" employees who "do nothing". Well, I looked about at our
university (10,500+ students) and saw a support staff that was under paid (=
way
underpaid); understaffed for maintaining facilities and equipment (although
he people they had were good-just more work than they could reasonably
handle in OUR time frames) less full time faculty now than a few years ago=
and
vastly more adjuncts who get paid a pittance and no bennies; and multiple
NEW layers of administrative cells. We have a President, Provost, VP
Academic Affairs, VP Business, VP of Students; VP of the university (not s=
ure
what that means) and a few other VP's. And since they are "so" busy, they =
were
granted permission to add Assistant VP's for each position. And, because
THEY were so busy, they were granted permission to hire Associate VP's in
each area. Then you get to the Dean level. You have Deans, Assistant Deans=
,
Associate Deans and adjunct Deans. Moving along to the Departmental level=
s
and you have Chairs, assistant chairs and in some cases associate chairs.
Eventually, you go low enough in the totem and you find "professors", part
time permanent faculty (we have that classification), adjuncts and
occasionally TA's and GA's depending on the program.
The administrative growth was spurred in part by rapid growth- Up to this
year it often exceeded 10% a year. However, unless there was a massive
amount of new federal and state paperwork associated with this growth, it =
is
very hard to understand (and for those on the bottom) to justify the
administrative bloat.
Costs for university educations will continue to rise-that like death seems
to be one of the unalterable facts of life. But to Mel's point about loan
interest-- THAT can be addressed. But unless you individually or with
others do not make appointments to express your concern and propose change=
s to
your Congressman, Senator or even state officials, then nothing will even =
be
done, and you will only have yourselves to blame, when you complain about
the high costs of college.
In a message dated 8/29/2012 11:09:05 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
tony.clennell@GMAIL.COM writes:
Mel: I went to Sheridan the other day to sign my Adjunct contract and
I could hardly find a parking spot. The students aren't there yet! How
can the parking lots be so full with no students? It's all the people
that work there full time. When the students get back they have to
park on private streets long walks away.
I once it heard an administrator say it was like a pyramid with the
student being the top of the pyramid. A guy stood up and said turn the
pyramid upside down and you have the real picture of a single student
with all that weight on his/her shoulders.
If the business model was applied to our program it would be axed in an
instant.
t
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 7:53 AM, mel jacobson wrote:
> why is it...we sit and wonder.
> college cost go up 20% per year let's say.
>
> oh, too bad. we blame everyone else.
> scream and yell. but, no one boycotts colleges. oh, too bad.
> no one is anti education. pols want to increase funding
> for the uofm.
>
> i am paying 9.9 percent on a college loan
> for my grand daughter. i can get a 30 year house loan at 2.9. why is
that?
> try and find a college loan at 2.9. the pols say that is the
interest..oh
> yah.
> my neighbor kid will pay $956 a month for 19 years.
> he majored in english lit. not a job in site. he is basically a well
> educated, bankrupt young man.
>
> blame oil, blame coal, blame rich people. but, never colleges.
>
> there are thousands of bureaucrats working at the universtity
> of minnesota. many do nothing. very high wages.
> actually i think faculty members are in the minority of employees
> at major universities.
> no one there ever loses a job. they ad jobs.
> kids and families are paying the price.
> now that is a scam.
> and, i get a letter a month for me to donate money to the
> university. and they want hundreds, not 25 bucks.
> please check the box...500, 1000, or we will take your pension.
>
> cargill here in minnesota just fired a 1000 people.
> not a blip on the screen. those are good jobs.
>
> the athletic director got `fired`...he gets a pension
> of 300+ grand a year for the rest of his life.
> the president just got `released` and he got the same
> cush.
> the basketball coach is the highest paid public employee in minnesota.
> couple million a year.
> can you spell sacred cow?
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
> clayart page below:
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
> http://www.21stcenturykilns.com/
--
http://smokieclennell.blogspot.com
Frances Howard on wed 29 aug 12
David,
The cheap Maine lobster made its way up to Canada and a packing plant in Ne=
w
Brunswick which so infuriated the local fisherman that they staged a protes=
t
in front of said plant. Said their livelihood was threatened, which it
probably was. I guess they came to some agreement with the plant owners
eventually but it was difficult. It's tricky though isn't it? It is easy
to see both sides of that story.
Frances Howard
-----Original Message-----
From: David McBeth
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:17 AM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: why do colleges get away with it
Many schools, big like the mighty U of Minnesota and tiny, like little ole
University of Tennessee at Martin, (my home for 21 years) are state run.
That means we are at the whim of the state legislatures. How may us us
would put are money in to a bank not run by bankers, or go to a hospital
not run by doctors or....? At least in Tennessee, as a state employee, I
answer to politicians, my dept chair, the dean, the provost and even the
chancellor - we all answer to the state legislature. We do not run our own
business. So maybe if you are looking for someplace to boycott Mel, wander
over to St Paul and give your legislator a visit. But we all saw how well
that went in Wisconsin. Better yet, stay home and make pots, it will be
better for your blood pressure.
This past summer, in Maine, lobster prices got so low the fisherman
couldn't afford to take their boats out. When was the last time you paid
$1.25 a pound for live lobster. Cheaper than hamburger or hot dogs. One
Sunday afternoon I got a call from a local fisherman/friend - "Dave, want
some lobster, they are cheep?" Sixteen lobster for twelve bucks, he asked
for $10, I gave him everything in my wallet. Last weekend, in a grocery
store in suburban St Louis, frozen lobster tails, $29.00 each (pound and a
quarter of frozen lobster)
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 6:53 AM, mel jacobson wrote:
> why is it...we sit and wonder.
> college cost go up 20% per year let's say.
>
> oh, too bad. we blame everyone else.
> scream and yell. but, no one boycotts colleges. oh, too bad.
> no one is anti education. pols want to increase funding
> for the uofm.
>
> i am paying 9.9 percent on a college loan
> for my grand daughter. i can get a 30 year house loan at 2.9. why is that=
?
> try and find a college loan at 2.9. the pols say that is the interest..o=
h
> yah.
> my neighbor kid will pay $956 a month for 19 years.
> he majored in english lit. not a job in site. he is basically a well
> educated, bankrupt young man.
>
> blame oil, blame coal, blame rich people. but, never colleges.
>
> there are thousands of bureaucrats working at the universtity
> of minnesota. many do nothing. very high wages.
> actually i think faculty members are in the minority of employees
> at major universities.
> no one there ever loses a job. they ad jobs.
> kids and families are paying the price.
> now that is a scam.
> and, i get a letter a month for me to donate money to the
> university. and they want hundreds, not 25 bucks.
> please check the box...500, 1000, or we will take your pension.
>
> cargill here in minnesota just fired a 1000 people.
> not a blip on the screen. those are good jobs.
>
> the athletic director got `fired`...he gets a pension
> of 300+ grand a year for the rest of his life.
> the president just got `released` and he got the same
> cush.
> the basketball coach is the highest paid public employee in minnesota.
> couple million a year.
> can you spell sacred cow?
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
> clayart page below:
> http://www.visi.com/~melpots/**clayart.htmlclayart.html>
> >
> http://www.**21stcenturykilns.com/
>
--
David McBeth
Professor of Art
Department of Visual and Theatre Arts
University of Tennessee - Martin
731-881-7416
-----
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James Freeman on wed 29 aug 12
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 11:53 AM, Lee wrote:
We need to remember, as a society, every child is OUR
child.
LOL! Please send me your share of my, I'm sorry, "OUR" kids' college
education. My mailing address is on my website. Cash, check, or money
order is fine. Thanks!
...James
James Freeman
"Talk sense to a fool, and he calls you foolish."
-Euripides
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
John Hesselberth on wed 29 aug 12
Hi Lee
On Aug 29, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Lee wrote:
> I'd like to see a National Service program started. People could
> choose to do their service in civilian or the military. And each
> year they worked in a high risk, high need area, they would be given
> forgiveness of one year of college tuition and fees.
Hi Lee,
The GI Bill already covers a lot of this for veterans. See
http://www.gibill.va.gov/documents/factsheets/post-911_general_info.pdf
Service academy and ROTC folks don't qualify if they only serve their =3D
minimum obligation, but then they already got some benefits while they =3D
were in school.
Regards,
John=3D
Vince Pitelka on wed 29 aug 12
Mel Jacobson wrote:
"why is it...we sit and wonder. college cost go up 20% per year let's say.=
"
Hi Mel -
There is a very good reason why college education has become so expensive.
At one time we believed in providing free or very inexpensive higher
education, just like we provide free K-12 education. When I went to
Humboldt State College (now Cal State University at Humboldt) there was no
tuition and my fees were less than $100 per semester. But of course that
wonderful situation has just gone all to hell, and public funding of higher
education has kept decreasing, thus tuition and fees have kept increasing.
Private colleges and universities have always been very expensive, and
public colleges and universities were such a great bargain in comparison.
They're still less expensive, but not by that much.
You make some very good points. Colleges and universities are often very
top-heavy in administrative staff. That is a hard thing to deal with. As
long as the faculty still have a lot of power in governance, it usually is
not that bad, but in lots of colleges and universities the administration
has succeeded in taking a lot of the power away from the faculty, and then
everything starts to go to hell.
The cost of college loans is ridiculous. These should be the cheapest loan=
s
available! Like you say, the interested should be as low as current
mortgage loan rates. It makes no sense, except that the companies that
issue student loans have simply gotten away with it.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Robert Harris on wed 29 aug 12
Just as a technical matter, one of the reasons that Student loans are going
to be more expensive than a mortgage (in a 'free economy') is that unlike a
mortgage, they are unsecured loans. In other words there is no real redress
if a student cannot pay back the loan. With a mortgage of course they have
a lien on your house.
However, again in theory, student loans in many cases are guaranteed by the
government (which effectively means they become secured) - I am not
entirely sure the terms of this agreement, and in some cases it may be
State rather than Federal, so this may also be a Minnesota thing.
I am however surprised by the 9% figure - the numbers I have heard about in
Florida are more along the lines of 3.5% - much more reasonable. Again the
differences may be something to do with the specifics of the loan (or the
student) and we shouldn't make too many generalizations.
Robert
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