centa uhalde on sun 8 feb 98
Subject: Re: When am I ready for a pumill/mixer
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Jane W., More important is how much scrap you generate/month. 50lbs. is a
fairly hefty amount at 600lbs./year. A small,(25lb.) used bread mixer would
be more than adequate and the cost would be less than $300.00 .Pugmills,
squeeze and mix the clay,forcing out a small amount of air in the process.
De-airing pugmills remove even more air and at a hiigher price. For several
years we used a 200lb. ships breadmixer and found it adequate.Perhaps
because we also hand wedge clay as well. We have used several pugmills and
found them useful but not absolutely necessary...certainly not if one is
generating only 50lbs.of clay/month...... But a lovely bit of machinery and
a capital expense.
My problem is with RMS such that it is not a good proposition for me to
wedge clay. I'm not generating a large amount of scrap but even having to
wedge, period, is a challenge. Would you still suggest a bread mixer since
I can't really afford something like a pugmill, especially if there is a
workable option?
Thanks,
Centa
Cindy on mon 9 feb 98
Centa,
If you can't afford a pug mill and your wrists (or whatever) aren't up to
the wedging process, maybe you should do what I do. I dump my scraps into a
low spot in my yard. Hey, it's not as if it's toxic waste or something.
Throwing out the scraps is cheaper than either spending valuable time
hand-reclaiming or buying a pug mill. Don't flame me too bad, guys. I don't
really end up with all that much scrap as I throw thin and don't trim
unless necessary.
Personally, I knead all the pre-packaged clay and wedge only if I'm
combining it with wet clay from pots that didn't quite make it off the
wheel. I have, however, watched more advanced potters than me take the clay
straight from the bag and plop it on the wheel. The whole 25 pounds on
occasion. And make beautiful pots. So, I suppose it's not entirely
necessary to do all that kneading as long as you're using pre-pugged clay.
As to using the reclaimed clay from a bread mixer, I would think that both
wedging and kneading would be essential.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels
Custer, SD
USA
http://blackhills-info.com/a/cindys/menu.htm
Don Jones on mon 9 feb 98
My wrists aren't up to wedgeing either so I use a method I call divide and
conquer. Use your wire to cut a lump of uneven clay in half and combine
the two halves together by slapping them down on the table. Cut the lump
again in half and repeat the process. Do this about 8 times and then your
clay is homogenous. Roll in around the table being careful not to roll in
air bubbles and you have a nice ball of clay of almost any weight ready to
throw.
Don Jones
claysky@highfiber.com
:-) implied in all messages and replies
http://highfiber.com/~claysky
Bill Aycock on tue 10 feb 98
The process Don (claysky) has described is the one from which the name
"wedging" came. It is hilarious that, in a craft society that almost
worships the Japanese tradition, the name used, erroneously, for the
preparation of clay for throwing come from the European tradition. The
process most current potters use is more properly called "Kneading", to put
another European word to use, but describes the process of "rolling" and
"turning in" most current potters use.
The word "wedging" comes from a characteristic Don did not mention that is
important. The piece of clay you throw down first is thrown in such a way
that there is a corner, or wedge, facing up. The piece of clay that is
slammed down on this hits on the point of the wedge, and, thus, does not
trap any air.
The process of wedging has another benefit for potters who dig and process
their clay in outdoors, often from a pit in the back yard-- there is often
grass and roots in the clay-- the cutting of the clay on a wire tends to
separate the roots from the clay. After about every third cut, the person
(usually NOT the potter) preparing the clay will slide the grass to the
bottom of the wire.
This way of preparing clay is MUCH easier on the hands and wrists that the
kneading way. A practised wedger can get a rhythm going that is very
energy efficient. I have watched a number of back-country potter families
work, mostly in Alabama, Georgia and North Carolina. Most use methods
handed down in families from European (mostly British ) traditions.
If you want to see an adapted process, imagine a KING_SIZE Muller (thats
what a soldner mixer is), made by making a sheet metal fence aound a circle
about 30 feet in diameter, and running a small tractor around in a circle,
chained to a stump in the center. It works- mixes LOTS of clay.
Bill- waxing nostalgic, on Persimmon Hill.
At 04:05 PM 2/9/98 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>My wrists aren't up to wedgeing either so I use a method I call divide and
>conquer. Use your wire to cut a lump of uneven clay in half and combine
>the two halves together by slapping them down on the table. Cut the lump
>again in half and repeat the process. Do this about 8 times and then your
>clay is homogenous. Roll in around the table being careful not to roll in
>air bubbles and you have a nice ball of clay of almost any weight ready to
>throw.
>
>Don Jones
>claysky@highfiber.com
> :-) implied in all messages and replies
>http://highfiber.com/~claysky
>
>
Bill Aycock --- Persimmon Hill
Woodville, Alabama, US 35776
(in the N.E. corner of the State)
W4BSG -- Grid EM64vr
baycock@HiWAAY.net
Sandra Dwiggins on wed 11 feb 98
Wedgers or wedgees, as the case may be...
I believe I saw this type of wedging on a Steven Jepson video, perhaps
the first intro one. I tried it and found the clay infinitely better for
throwing than if I had done the usual japanese kneading method for a
much longer time. This "throwing" type of wedging also is an excellent
method for making a lovely consistent mix of clay from two lumps of
different hardnesses...like those you leave on the drying bat just a little
too long.
All of us with arthritis gradually taking over every joint, or those who
have suffered broken wrists or carpal tunnel would benefit from this
method.
Sandy
Mj Burklund on thu 12 feb 98
In a message dated 98-02-11 10:21:18 EST, you write:
> All of us with arthritis gradually taking over every joint, or those who
> have suffered broken wrists or carpal tunnel would benefit from this
> method.
> Sandy
Thats what my mom is worried about with me.... I did ''crush'' one and
''shatter'' the other . In a motorcycle accident. I'm leaning towards the
wedging board. Maybe alittle of the kneading. I expect to have to wear
some kind of brace if I do it for very long. But I'm not going to let it
beat me. I'll just have alot of Bayer standing by. :-) I thought I read
that you can use a bread machine for kneading.... is that true? I will be
making items just for me and friends family etc, so will probably use smaller
anounts of clay. Is that possible or did I read it wrong? Mj
Lili Krakowski on thu 12 feb 98
Okay. Several good suggestions have come up about wedging.
But. There is not law (no, there is NOT) that says The
Potter Must Do the Wedging. Wedging is not difficult--it is physically
taxing. Therefore one looks around for a kid, the kind of kid who cuts
lawns and shovels snow, and asks h/er/im:Hey, could you do this--for a
fee, or a free class, or whatever.The art teacher at the local HS may have
an idea. However with your serious wrist problems--for which I truly am
sorry--you may want simply to contact a potter who HAS AND USES A PUGMILL
and would consider selling you/sharing with you h/er/is clay and you NEVER
wedge, but return and exchange a bucket at a time.
Good luck
Lili Krakowski
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