Robert S. Bruch on tue 10 feb 98
I would appreciate any comments from someone who has
experience with a Gold test kiln or any other brands
that you would recommend.
Thanks,
--
Bob Bruch rsb8@po.cwru.edu
Jim Tabor on tue 26 mar 02
My best studio investment. I bought mine in '83, pre controller days. Paragon,
fires to ^10 on 120v. After many hundreds of firings ^6 and under, I replaced the
switch and elements last year. It went through many years of firing inks and decal
(burned organics) testing at ^1 and under to match colors on tiles for architects
and designers with least 5 firings a week. It is now used at school an average of
3 firings a week and more when students are developing clays and glazes. Students
see their fired results the day after making a glaze. Every ceramics program
should have a test kiln for students to experiment.
Test kilns with controllers will match the normal firing cycle better and would be
worth the extra money for those firing with a controller normally. You will
SOMETIMES encounter some detectable changes in results between the test kiln
without a controller and the controlled kiln. I get mattes and semimattes from the
test kiln that are more affected by temps than cooling. There is a difference in
the settings for the large and small kilns. Put large cones in each to see how
accurate they work and adjust the controller to match the test kiln. Cooling is
much faster in the test kiln because the bulk slows cooling in the large kiln and
a lower than peak soak for curing bubbles is set on the controller which also
slows cooling.
Ive always fired tests in normal loads too, but, the test kiln offers freedom to
explore and confidence in every new batch of glaze.
A few months ago there was a thread about kiln disasters I didn't post to but it
reminded me of my first kiln (downdraft ^10) I built after college in '72 when I
hammered about 150 pieces from the first 3 loads. I then found out, everyone using
the COLEMANITE I was using in all of my glazes had created the same problem
(jumping off pots and leaving a ring on the shelf away from the ware) for other
potters in the area. Three firings because I didn't suspect the materials I was
using; as the glazes were the safest glazes for atmosphere and temp range. I only
used gertsley borate after that, but my point is, testing is an important
safeguard to consistency as well as exploration. You will never regret you
investment in a test kiln.
Happy trials-
jt
http://home.earthlink.net/~taborj/index.html
John Hesselberth wrote:
> on 3/26/02 2:11 PM, cookie davis at cookieclaygirl@HOTMAIL.COM wrote:
>
> > Do any of you out there
> > wish to make suggestions about what to look for when buying it or is there a
> > specific model that you have that you love and recommend (am looking for one
> > to go to cone 10)..
>
> Hi Cookie
>
> Get one with a computer control. They are virtually useless without a
> computer because you will never be able to control the cooling rate with any
> degree of precision. And without controlling the cooling rate you will
> never get good durable mattes and semimattes. With a computer they are a
> great tool. For my money L&L makes the best one, but I'm sure other brands
> have their fans also. The key is the computer control--can't emphasize that
> enough.
>
> John
>
> Web sites: http://www.masteringglazes.com and http://www.frogpondpottery.com
> Email: john@frogpondpottery.com
>
> "Art is not a handicraft, it is the transmission of feeling the artist has
> experienced." Leo Tolstoy, 1898
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
cookie davis on tue 26 mar 02
Hello again All!
I have another question for those of you who wish to answer (thanks to all
who have replied about the plaster for a drying table!)...I have been
researching small test kilns but reading is one thing and hearing other's
reactions about their own test kilns is another. Do any of you out there
wish to make suggestions about what to look for when buying it or is there a
specific model that you have that you love and recommend (am looking for one
to go to cone 10)..
Just curious,
happy potting,
thanks to all who respond,
cookie
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
John Hesselberth on tue 26 mar 02
on 3/26/02 2:11 PM, cookie davis at cookieclaygirl@HOTMAIL.COM wrote:
> Do any of you out there
> wish to make suggestions about what to look for when buying it or is there a
> specific model that you have that you love and recommend (am looking for one
> to go to cone 10)..
Hi Cookie
Get one with a computer control. They are virtually useless without a
computer because you will never be able to control the cooling rate with any
degree of precision. And without controlling the cooling rate you will
never get good durable mattes and semimattes. With a computer they are a
great tool. For my money L&L makes the best one, but I'm sure other brands
have their fans also. The key is the computer control--can't emphasize that
enough.
John
Web sites: http://www.masteringglazes.com and http://www.frogpondpottery.com
Email: john@frogpondpottery.com
"Art is not a handicraft, it is the transmission of feeling the artist has
experienced." Leo Tolstoy, 1898
Cl Litman on mon 23 feb 04
My only complaint about having a small test kiln is that I don't have a
kiln vent attached and I do smell it when firing.
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:04:03 -0500 Gene and Dolita Dohrman
writes:
> I am thinking of purchasing a small test kiln and wonder what kind of
> =
> experience any of you have had with them. Right now I am looking at
> the =
> Olympic HB89. Any thoughts?
> Thanks. Dolita
Gene and Dolita Dohrman on mon 23 feb 04
I am thinking of purchasing a small test kiln and wonder what kind of =
experience any of you have had with them. Right now I am looking at the =
Olympic HB89. Any thoughts?
Thanks. Dolita
dohrman@insightbb.com
Louisville, KY
John Hesselberth on mon 23 feb 04
Hi Dolita,
Two things I would recommend. First, get a controller so you can match
the heating/cooling rates to your big kiln. Otherwise you will not get
results you can duplicate.
Second and equally important, AVOID one with crimped connectors (the
elements are joined to the wiring with crimped connectors). While there
are special tools to help you make these connections (and I have one) I
will contend anyone short of gorilla strength cannot do them well--and
maybe not even then. Particularly on the specific kiln I have because
you are working in cramped quarters and it is very awkward. I have had
nothing but trouble with those joints burning out every few firings.
And that is really irritating because it always seems to happen when
you are at about 1500F. This may not happen with your first set of
elements, but it will with any you replace.
The particular kiln I have had this problem with is the Olympic Doll
kiln. It is about 3 or 4 years old so they may have changed their
design by now--I hope so. I became so frustrated with it I bought an
L&L test kiln which uses screw post connectors. The L&L is a great test
kiln and I would highly recommend it, although it was more expensive
than the Olympic. You get what you pay for I guess.
One of these days I will get into it and try to rebuild the Olympic to
avoid this problem but that will not be an easy task the way everything
is jammed into a tiny space.
Regards,
John
On Monday, February 23, 2004, at 11:04 AM, Gene and Dolita Dohrman
wrote:
> I am thinking of purchasing a small test kiln and wonder what kind of
> experience any of you have had with them. Right now I am looking at
> the Olympic HB89. Any thoughts?
> Thanks. Dolita
>
> dohrman@insightbb.com
> Louisville, KY
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
http://www.frogpondpottery.com
http://www.masteringglazes.com
marianne kuiper milks on fri 4 nov 05
I'd like to buy a test kiln, even though I realize
that my gas kiln's colors will fly by a different
wind.
The cost of propane is just too high to run a big kiln
like that.
So...(I want a tiny, 120 V one) does anyone have any
suggestions which are good, which ones to stay away
from?
Anyone out there who played voodoo with doll's heads
and wants to separate from their old kiln?
Marianne
__________________________________
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com
John Hesselberth on sat 5 nov 05
On Nov 4, 2005, at 11:51 AM, marianne kuiper milks wrote:
> I'd like to buy a test kiln, even though I realize
> that my gas kiln's colors will fly by a different
> wind.
>
>
Hi Marianne,
Stay away from ones with crimped connectors (attaching the elements to
the wiring). Some of the cheapest ones are put together this way and no
one short of King Kong can replace those correctly even with a hardware
store crimping tool. I will never again buy a kiln with crimped
connectors. Also if you want to reproduce your results in a bigger
electric kiln, you must control the cooling rate. While this can be
done manually, a computer controlled test kiln is well worth the
cost--in fact I wouldn't have a test kiln that is not computer
controlled.
I have 2. The L&L one is great. I had to completely rebuilt the Olympic
one to get rid of the crimped connectors (I replaced them with split
bolt connectors but had to enlarge the control box to make room) before
it was worth owning. I'm sure there are other good brands too. I bet
Arnold can recommend a Paragon model that will meet you needs. But the
bottom line is that I wouldn't recommend any of them in the $100-200
range. You will have to spend more like $500-800 to get a decent one.
John
John Hesselberth
http://www.frogpondpottery.com
http://www.masteringglazes.com
Arnold Howard on mon 7 nov 05
I agree with John about crimped element connectors. I prefer simple barrel
connectors with screws. You can get them very tight using only a nut driver
and Vice-Grips. (Hold the barrel with Vice-Grips while tightening the screw
with the nut driver.)
A 120-volt firebrick test kiln that will easily reach cone 6 should be
around .14 - .25 cubic foot. The larger the 120-volt kiln, the slower it
will fire.
A 3-key digital controller is the most affordable type for a test kiln. It
is a stripped-down version of the 12+-key controllers used on studio kilns.
But the 3-key is still capable of controller cooling.
If you use the 3-key controller's Cone-Fire mode, make sure the firing
profile is the same as the Cone-Fire mode on your studio kiln. (Cone-Fire
programs vary between brands of controllers.) Or you could follow John's
advice and use Ramp-Hold mode, where you program each firing stage yourself.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
From: "John Hesselberth"
> Stay away from ones with crimped connectors (attaching the elements to
> the wiring). Some of the cheapest ones are put together this way and no
> one short of King Kong can replace those correctly even with a hardware
> store crimping tool. I will never again buy a kiln with crimped
> connectors. Also if you want to reproduce your results in a bigger
> electric kiln, you must control the cooling rate. While this can be
> done manually, a computer controlled test kiln is well worth the
> cost
Lester Haworth on tue 8 nov 05
Marianne,
I agree with John on this. The larger of the two mentioned is the L&L
DLH-11-DB and is excellent for a test kiln that will be seeing a lot of use.
The second kiln from Paragon is called the Caldera and comes in two styles,
Manual and Automatic. I'd recommend the Automatic version.
Both of these will work well depending on production, frequency of use, and
firing temperature. For more information on these products visit
L&L: http://www.hotkilns.com/
Paragon: http://www.paragonweb.com/
Les H.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of John
Hesselberth
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:04 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Test Kilns
On Nov 4, 2005, at 11:51 AM, marianne kuiper milks wrote:
> I'd like to buy a test kiln, even though I realize
> that my gas kiln's colors will fly by a different
> wind.
>
>
Hi Marianne,
Stay away from ones with crimped connectors (attaching the elements to
the wiring). Some of the cheapest ones are put together this way and no
one short of King Kong can replace those correctly even with a hardware
store crimping tool. I will never again buy a kiln with crimped
connectors. Also if you want to reproduce your results in a bigger
electric kiln, you must control the cooling rate. While this can be
done manually, a computer controlled test kiln is well worth the
cost--in fact I wouldn't have a test kiln that is not computer
controlled.
I have 2. The L&L one is great. I had to completely rebuilt the Olympic
one to get rid of the crimped connectors (I replaced them with split
bolt connectors but had to enlarge the control box to make room) before
it was worth owning. I'm sure there are other good brands too. I bet
Arnold can recommend a Paragon model that will meet you needs. But the
bottom line is that I wouldn't recommend any of them in the $100-200
range. You will have to spend more like $500-800 to get a decent one.
John
John Hesselberth
http://www.frogpondpottery.com
http://www.masteringglazes.com
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Cindi Anderson on sun 21 may 06
Hi Linda
The problem people usually find with a test kiln not matching the results of
their larger kiln, is that the larger kiln naturally cools slower. If you
get an electronic controller and program your ramp up and ramp down rates,
then the results will be the same.
Cindi
BigCeramicStore.com
----- Original Message -----
> But I want to be able to do some testing now at home.
> I saw a tiny test kiln yesterday, which has the
> advantage of running on 120v electricity. Will glaze
> test tiles fired in such a kiln bear enough
> resemblance to the results in a large kiln to make it
> worthwhile?
>
> TIA,
> Linda Ferzoco
Linda T Ferzoco on sun 21 may 06
Here's the deal. I can't buy my full sized kiln yet
because I am likely moving to another part of the bay
area before the end of the year and I want to wait to
check those local codes, etc.
But I want to be able to do some testing now at home.
I saw a tiny test kiln yesterday, which has the
advantage of running on 120v electricity. Will glaze
test tiles fired in such a kiln bear enough
resemblance to the results in a large kiln to make it
worthwhile?
TIA,
Linda Ferzoco
Lynn Goodman Porcelain Pottery on sun 21 may 06
I use a tiny test kiln to make sure that a glaze I have mixed up is OK
to use (does it melt, is it actually blue, etc.). I don't look for the
same results as I'd get in a large kiln, because it fires too quickly.
You might want to look into a doll kiln. They are a little larger, lots
of them use 120v, and the results are a lot closer to what you want.
Lynn
On May 21, 2006, at 10:23 AM, Linda T Ferzoco wrote:
> Here's the deal. I can't buy my full sized kiln yet
> because I am likely moving to another part of the bay
> area before the end of the year and I want to wait to
> check those local codes, etc.
>
> But I want to be able to do some testing now at home.
> I saw a tiny test kiln yesterday, which has the
> advantage of running on 120v electricity. Will glaze
> test tiles fired in such a kiln bear enough
> resemblance to the results in a large kiln to make it
> worthwhile?
>
> TIA,
> Linda Ferzoco
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Lynn Goodman
Fine Porcelain Pottery
548 Court St.
Brooklyn, NY 11231
718-858-6920
Cell 347-526-9805
www.lynngoodmanporcelain.com
Hank Murrow on sun 21 may 06
On May 21, 2006, at 7:23 AM, Linda T Ferzoco wrote:
> I want to be able to do some testing now at home.
> I saw a tiny test kiln yesterday, which has the
> advantage of running on 120v electricity. Will glaze
> test tiles fired in such a kiln bear enough
> resemblance to the results in a large kiln to make it
> worthwhile?
>
Dear Linda;
If your small kiln has a controller to set ramps and create a similar
firing to a bigger kiln........yes. If not, you may have to control the
firing yourself, by turning up switches(and down too) to simulate the
longer firing. Most important is the four hours around the end point,
both the rising and the falling rate.
Ask me about the Elephant and the Hummingbird sometime.
Cheers, Hank
www.murrow.biz/hank
Maurice Weitman on sun 21 may 06
At 07:23 -0700 on 5/21/06, Linda T Ferzoco wrote:
>[...] I saw a tiny test kiln yesterday, which has the
>advantage of running on 120v electricity. Will glaze
>test tiles fired in such a kiln bear enough
>resemblance to the results in a large kiln to make it
>worthwhile?
I won't quote the customary "it depends" answer here, but, well...
In my opinion and experience, if you'll be using glazes that depend
on specific temperature control (such as many of the MC6G glazes and
others that develop much of their depth and interest during slow
cooling or holds at certain temps), you will want (I nearly wrote
"need") to use a kiln controller to be able to more closely match the
way they'll fire in a larger kiln.
Aside from the obvious size limitation of such a small "test" kiln,
the major difference between tiny (120 v.) and normally-sized
(certainly larger than 3 cubic feet) kilns is how quickly they will
lose their heat when power is removed. There are other, more subtle
differences, including how many pots in the kiln, and how close they
are to each other, the shelves, etc.
It's certainly possible to get very good results from kilns without
controllers by using their switches to mimic the firing schedule
recommended by Hesselberth and Roy in MC6G, but in my opinion, it
would be difficult to get consistent results that way. Others may be
more readily able to do it than I...
I added an outboard (Bartlett) controller to use on my small and
smaller kilns; it's the same controller that is built-in to my large
(10 cubic feet) kiln. I have been able to achieve viable (very
nearly identical) results in my tiny (120 v. Aim 88 - 0.5 cubic foot)
kiln that reliably predict the results I will get in my larger kilns.
I also have all kilns vented using a downdraft vent that runs for the
entire cycle.
As far as "local codes" go... I would doubt that there'd be any
difference anywhere in the Bay Area, but that's a different story.
I'd be happy to help if you have other questions.
Regards,
Maurice
Dave Finkelnburg on sun 21 may 06
Linda,
Search the archives for John Hesselberth's comments
on this subject.
Briefly, I think if you would fire at the same rate
and with the same atmosphere, the results should be
comparable. I think people say the results aren't
comparable because it's difficult to control heating
rate and cool down precisely in an inexpensive, small
test kiln. I think John used a controller, which
solved many of those problems.
Good glaze testing!
Dave Finkelnburg
--- Linda T Ferzoco wrote:
> I saw a tiny test kiln yesterday, which has the
> advantage of running on 120v electricity. Will
> glaze
> test tiles fired in such a kiln bear enough
> resemblance to the results in a large kiln to make
> it
> worthwhile?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Pam Cresswell on sun 21 may 06
I recently bought Axner's largest test kiln that will run on household
current, so I could do small pieces and test glazes at home. I have fired it
just a handful of times since I got it a month ago, and I am very pleased so
far. (Side note, the Axner kiln is actually made by Olympic, and is shipped
directly from them, not Axner) It has an infinite control switch, so I can
play with temperature easily. When I want to mimic conditions from my bigger
kiln, I use my old kiln logs and pyrometer to guide me. If you have the
patience to watch it all day, and adjust as needed, you can get pretty close
to what a bigger kiln does. The only problem I have is that the thing
always seems to be smaller than I think it is, meaning I make a piece I
think will just fit, and it just doesn't fit
Bob Masta on mon 22 may 06
As others have already pointed out, the main issue with a small
kiln will be that it cools too fast. If you are mostly interested in
gloss surfaces, this may not be an issue. The big problem
is with glazes that need slow cooling to develop crystals.
That doesn't mean just crystalline glazes: Most satin and
matte glazes get their look from micro-crystals that need time
to develop. That's the biggest problem I've found with a small
kiln. You can probably overcome this by ramping down
(with a controller, or manually) but my guess is that what you
come up with won't tell you much about what the glaze would
look like in a large kiln, unless you can match the time and temperature
schedules.
Best regards,
Bob Masta
potsATdaqartaDOTcom
Arnold Howard on mon 22 may 06
From: "Linda T Ferzoco"
> I saw a tiny test kiln yesterday, which has the
> advantage of running on 120v electricity. Will glaze
> test tiles fired in such a kiln bear enough
> resemblance to the results in a large kiln to make it
> worthwhile?
A digital controller on a test kiln can duplicate the firing
of a large kiln. Find a test kiln that has the small 3-key
controller. It won't have all the features of the more
expensive 12-key controller found on large kilns.
Nevertheless the 3-key controller can slow the cooling to
whatever speed you want.
Most small 120 volt kilns are rated to 2000 degrees F
because they are designed for silver clay. Make sure yours
is rated to 2300 F.
With the Bell plate holder, even a small test kiln can fire
5 - 4" x 4" tiles.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Charles Moore on mon 22 may 06
Recently, I bought a Paragon Caldera with a digital controller. It does
exactly what Arnold Howard says that it does (below). I would add that it
is also very cheap to fire.
> A digital controller on a test kiln can duplicate the firing
> of a large kiln. Find a test kiln that has the small 3-key
> controller. . . . " which programs the rise and fall of the kiln
> temperature.
Charles Moore
Sacramento
Judy Rohrbaugh on mon 22 may 06
Linda, the last time that I set up my studio I bought the Axner test
kiln, mentioned in another post, before I bought my regular kiln.
It turned out to be a good idea as it took a few months
to come up with glazes that I now use.
The test kiln cools much faster than a regular kiln. However, I
would recommend it as a good start.
Note: I did not use the glazes on actual work until I did one
final test in the large kiln, as the temps in my test were not
100% accurrate. Everything else was accurrate (colors, finish),
just not the exact temperature.
Judy Rohrbaugh
Fine Art Stoneware
Ohio
Linda T Ferzoco wrote:
TIA,
Linda Ferzoco
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
| |
|
