Clennell on mon 9 mar 98
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>This type of report (see msg below) was the very reason that I took my
>"cautious" stance on applying any refractory coating to a studio kiln be it
>gas or electric. I have nothing personally against the makers of these
>products. I do think that there may be some useful applications but studio
>potters don't necessarily have the same needs as large commercial potteries
>and refractories which is the primary target market for such companies.
>Most kiln manufactures such as Skutt to the best of my knowledge recommend
>against using these coatings as well. So whose recommendations do you
>follow? Again Just my $0.0002 worth. ....Marshall
>Dear Marshall: I think you have been waiting for this kind of report for
>months to verify your wise cautiousness. I like a glass of wine with my
>dinner. I collect articles from the newspapers stating how a Mediterrean
>diet is good for me and that those that drink wine with dinner live
>longer. I think you can find a report to support anything you want to
>believe in. Some days I believe in UFOs and boogie men. Why do studio
>potters not have the same needs as commercial potteries? Some of us make
>our entire living from our potteries and the same requirements in terms of
>kiln wear and energy savings apply to us.
You haven't spent a wooden nickel on ITC products but for months this has
been your bugaboo. Spend some of your teachers salary, sell one of your
wifes' mugs, some tomatoes or cider and buy a pint and paint a brick. Fire
it in every kiln load, so that you can honestly make claims that it flakes
off as you have so often wrongly stated.
Gee, if I were going to consider advice who would I listen to- the kiln
manufacturer or a practicing potter? give me the potter, any ole day.
Here is 2 cents and I'll raise you 5.
Cheers,
tony
Talbott on tue 10 mar 98
Actually Jiri's message came to me back in the Autumn... Ask her if
you don't believe me.
Try this TEST and settle this once and for all. Get two identical and
brand new electric Skutt kilns (or other quality electric kilns) and set
then up identically. The ONLY difference being between the two is that one
is sprayed with the appropriate refractory coating according to the
prescribe methods and the other is not. Fire the two kilns at the same
settings and monitor the temperature changes from ambient temp up to ^8 or
^10 or whatever. If the coated kiln insulates better than the non-coated
kiln then it will gain an increase in temp at a higher rate. Such a test
does not seem to be unreasonable for a company which sells refractory
coating. Ideally the test would be conducted by an independent laboratory,
then all of this controvesy could be settled once and for all. However I
would never use a coating on the inside of our kiln for the fear of
particulate fallout ruining pots during a glaze fire. We use a gas fired
car kiln which be built a few year ago which has approx 45 cubic feet of
stacking space. It cost approx $50 to fire the kiln loaded to cone 10..
Ruining just one pot with a flake of dislodge material from any coating
could easily cost us $15 to $50 and up. So for us the risks don't justify
any potential energy savings.... At this time we produce approx 2000
pieces of pottery yearly (plus or minus 500) most of which are sold during
the summer months at our gallery. .....Marshall
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>This type of report (see msg below) was the very reason that I took my
>>"cautious" stance on applying any refractory coating to a studio kiln be it
>>gas or electric. I have nothing personally against the makers of these
>>products. I do think that there may be some useful applications but studio
>>potters don't necessarily have the same needs as large commercial potteries
>>and refractories which is the primary target market for such companies.
>>Most kiln manufactures such as Skutt to the best of my knowledge recommend
>>against using these coatings as well. So whose recommendations do you
>>follow? Again Just my $0.0002 worth. ....Marshall
>
>
>>Dear Marshall: I think you have been waiting for this kind of report for
>>months to verify your wise cautiousness. I like a glass of wine with my
>>dinner. I collect articles from the newspapers stating how a Mediterrean
>>diet is good for me and that those that drink wine with dinner live
>>longer. I think you can find a report to support anything you want to
>>believe in. Some days I believe in UFOs and boogie men. Why do studio
>>potters not have the same needs as commercial potteries? Some of us make
>>our entire living from our potteries and the same requirements in terms of
>>kiln wear and energy savings apply to us.
>You haven't spent a wooden nickel on ITC products but for months this has
>been your bugaboo. Spend some of your teachers salary, sell one of your
>wifes' mugs, some tomatoes or cider and buy a pint and paint a brick. Fire
>it in every kiln load, so that you can honestly make claims that it flakes
>off as you have so often wrongly stated.
>Gee, if I were going to consider advice who would I listen to- the kiln
>manufacturer or a practicing potter? give me the potter, any ole day.
>Here is 2 cents and I'll raise you 5.
>Cheers,
>tony
http://www.PotteryInfo.com
101 CLAYART MUGS (Summer 1998)
2ND ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1998)
E-MAIL ME FOR APPLICATIONS
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
Clayarters' Live Chat Room, Fri & Sat Nites at 10 PM EDT & Sun at 1 PM EDT
http://webchat12.wbs.net/webchat3.so?Room=PRIVATE_Clayarters
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Clennell on wed 11 mar 98
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Actually Jiri's message came to me back in the Autumn... Ask her if
>you don't believe me.
>
>Try this TEST and settle this once and for all. Get two identical and
>brand new electric Skutt kilns (or other quality electric kilns) and set
>then up identically. The ONLY difference being between the two is that one
>is sprayed with the appropriate refractory coating according to the
>prescribe methods and the other is not. Fire the two kilns at the same
>settings and monitor the temperature changes from ambient temp up to ^8 or
>^10 or whatever. If the coated kiln insulates better than the non-coated
>kiln then it will gain an increase in temp at a higher rate. Such a test
>does not seem to be unreasonable for a company which sells refractory
>coating. Ideally the test would be conducted by an independent laboratory,
>then all of this controvesy could be settled once and for all. However I
>would never use a coating on the inside of our kiln for the fear of
>particulate fallout ruining pots during a glaze fire. We use a gas fired
>car kiln which be built a few year ago which has approx 45 cubic feet of
>stacking space. It cost approx $50 to fire the kiln loaded to cone 10..
>Ruining just one pot with a flake of dislodge material from any coating
>could easily cost us $15 to $50 and up. So for us the risks don't justify
>any potential energy savings.... At this time we produce approx 2000
>
Dear Marshall: I actually think this is a great idea but don't look to me
to buy the two brand new kilns. It does sound like a very simple way of
settling the controversy once and for all. I really must admit the energy
savings are not the sole reason why I use ITC products. I am getting some
spectacular glazes now and I find the materials excellent for kiln repair.
We make at least 2000 drinking vessels alone in a year. I really don't
count. Whatever we make we use about 6-7 tons of clay.
I loose all kinds of pots. The kiln gods aren't quite as kind to me as
you. I have never ever lost a pot due to shit falling from the arch. As
your arch grinds away at itself from use, you may find little crumblies
being part of your life. Let's hope you are spared.
I hope the champions of progress and innovation read your post and do the test .
Cheers,
Tony
Mmpottery on thu 12 mar 98
The NCECA journal just came from last year and the talk from Nils Lou about
Refractory Coatings is in there. He's done testing on different types of
kilns. It is very interesting to read.
Talbott on thu 12 mar 98
How in the "heck" can the manufactures make claims on their products unless
they first have SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to back it up! I do not expect an
individual user to conduct such tests... I expect the manufactures of the
products to do the tests... I cannot imagine why such a test has not be
done already be done. Just asking for TOO much I suppose.
What kind of kiln(s) do you fire and do you fire in oxidation or reduction?
Specifically what improvements have you noticed since using the ITC
products? How do you think that the ITC is doing its job? (ie..by
redirecting infrared radiation back to the pots, etc...)
....Marshall
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Dear Marshall: I actually think this is a great idea but don't look to me
>to buy the two brand new kilns. It does sound like a very simple way of
>settling the controversy once and for all. I really must admit the energy
>savings are not the sole reason why I use ITC products. I am getting some
>spectacular glazes now and I find the materials excellent for kiln repair.
>We make at least 2000 drinking vessels alone in a year. I really don't
>count. Whatever we make we use about 6-7 tons of clay.
>I loose all kinds of pots. The kiln gods aren't quite as kind to me as
>you. I have never ever lost a pot due to shit falling from the arch. As
>your arch grinds away at itself from use, you may find little crumblies
>being part of your life. Let's hope you are spared.
>I hope the champions of progress and innovation read your post and do the
>test .
>Cheers,
>Tony
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>> Actually Jiri's message came to me back in the Autumn... Ask her if
>>you don't believe me.
>>
>>Try this TEST and settle this once and for all. Get two identical and
>>brand new electric Skutt kilns (or other quality electric kilns) and set
>>then up identically. The ONLY difference being between the two is that one
>>is sprayed with the appropriate refractory coating according to the
>>prescribe methods and the other is not. Fire the two kilns at the same
>>settings and monitor the temperature changes from ambient temp up to ^8 or
>>^10 or whatever. If the coated kiln insulates better than the non-coated
>>kiln then it will gain an increase in temp at a higher rate. Such a test
>>does not seem to be unreasonable for a company which sells refractory
>>coating. Ideally the test would be conducted by an independent laboratory,
>>then all of this controvesy could be settled once and for all. However I
>>would never use a coating on the inside of our kiln for the fear of
>>particulate fallout ruining pots during a glaze fire. We use a gas fired
>>car kiln which be built a few year ago which has approx 45 cubic feet of
>>stacking space. It cost approx $50 to fire the kiln loaded to cone 10..
>>Ruining just one pot with a flake of dislodge material from any coating
>>could easily cost us $15 to $50 and up. So for us the risks don't justify
>>any potential energy savings.... At this time we produce approx 2000
>>
>
>
>Dear Marshall: I actually think this is a great idea but don't look to me
>to buy the two brand new kilns. It does sound like a very simple way of
>settling the controversy once and for all. I really must admit the energy
>savings are not the sole reason why I use ITC products. I am getting some
>spectacular glazes now and I find the materials excellent for kiln repair.
>We make at least 2000 drinking vessels alone in a year. I really don't
>count. Whatever we make we use about 6-7 tons of clay.
>I loose all kinds of pots. The kiln gods aren't quite as kind to me as
>you. I have never ever lost a pot due to shit falling from the arch. As
>your arch grinds away at itself from use, you may find little crumblies
>being part of your life. Let's hope you are spared.
>I hope the champions of progress and innovation read your post and do the
>test .
>Cheers,
>Tony
http://www.PotteryInfo.com
101 CLAYART MUGS (Summer 1998)
2ND ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1998)
E-MAIL ME FOR APPLICATIONS
http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
Clayarters' Live Chat Room, Fri & Sat Nites at 10 PM EDT & Sun at 1 PM EDT
http://webchat12.wbs.net/webchat3.so?Room=PRIVATE_Clayarters
---------------------------------------------------------------------
DWoodin521 on fri 13 mar 98
ITC is an industrial product if you want proof than call ITC and they will
direct you to industrial users.
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