David Hendley on wed 11 mar 98
Kiln manufacturers care about one thing:
Selling kilns. Nothing else.
How else can you explain the woefully under- insulated
electric kilns that are passed off as the standard ceramic kiln?
2 1/2" thick walls for a kiln that reaches 22 or 2300 degress?
Disgusting.
I have a 'deluxe' model. 3" thick bricks instead of 2 1/2".
Big whoop.
How about the 'double insulated' kiln?
Bricks on edge backed by 1/2" of ridgid insulation.
Laughable.
Why should their attitude towards ceramic coatings be any
different? So what if they will make the kiln more efficient, it
costs money and will thus either reduce profit or hurt sales
by raising the price.
No, the manufacturers will never take the lead in improving
efficiency until the customers demand it.
Electic resistance heating is the least efficient means to fire pottery,
yet, the average home-made gas kiln has 9" thick walls, while
electric kiln manufacturers still chun out a product that would make
a '57 Caddy look like a fuel efficient car.
I'd say their credibility is pretty low.
I would certainly weigh what they say with what a knowledgeable
potter says.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
See David Hendley's Pottery Page at
http://www.sosis.com/hendley/david/
At 08:02 AM 3/10/98 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>It worries me that somebody on Clayart is suggesting that, in regard to
>ITC, "listening to the kiln manufacturer" is a bad bet.
>
>Kiln makers embrace improvements in technology all the time. They moved
>from clay brick to baked brick. Then from hard brick to soft brick. They
>quickly learned to incorporate "alternative" refractory forms like fiber
>blankets and board. They offered "electric fire" elements just as soon as
>electric technology allowed it. The "Kiln Sitter" concept was immediately
>adopted, as well as electronic timers and finally programmable controllers.
> It's easy to see that kiln makers have sought and championed all kinds of
>progress for centuries.
>
>In light of their willingness to progress, I suspect that if ITC (or any
>other wonder coating) bore out as a significant step forward, every kiln
>maker would be battling to be "first on the market" with coated bricks.
>But none of them are.
>
>I think it's absurd to suggest that kiln manufacturers are suddenly less
>credible than any "potter, any ole day"! And if manufacturer's are to be
>disregarded about this, why take their word on voltage, amperage,
>grounding, temperature range, or anything else? I think the suggestion to
>disregard them in this matter is highly selective, and I suspect it as
>wholly apologist.
>
>If a coating manufacturer can't/won't cough up real evidence that their
>product works, why would any responsible kiln builder use it?
>
>
Clay on thu 12 mar 98
I think in a certain point of view you make it look so right to say "Kiln
manufacturers care about one thing:
Selling kilns. Nothing else"
You will love a kiln like your home-made one with a 9" Bricks thick wall
in it . Hey my friends told me that they seen one in Japan .
And it is only $8,000 US for some thing Diameter around 15"..(Dear Potters
from Japan, Correct me if I'm wrong ).
I'm sure it will be quite efficient .
Re: In North America Year 1998,11th March, Our 18" Diameter Kiln with 22" in
Height (interior) is about $1,200-$1,500 US.That is not art, that only help
potter's to build or start their business easier.
Remind you not every body ( I'm talking about myself now) have a piece of
land to build their own gas kiln .
Ther is people only have 200 Sq foot Studio and working happily , & still
thought that it is a gift from God .
Ian Ian
At 09:40 AM 3/11/98 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>Kiln manufacturers care about one thing:
>Selling kilns. Nothing else.
>
>How else can you explain the woefully under- insulated
>electric kilns that are passed off as the standard ceramic kiln?
>
>2 1/2" thick walls for a kiln that reaches 22 or 2300 degress?
>Disgusting.
>I have a 'deluxe' model. 3" thick bricks instead of 2 1/2".
>Big whoop.
>How about the 'double insulated' kiln?
>Bricks on edge backed by 1/2" of ridgid insulation.
>Laughable.
>
>Why should their attitude towards ceramic coatings be any
>different? So what if they will make the kiln more efficient, it
>costs money and will thus either reduce profit or hurt sales
>by raising the price.
>
>No, the manufacturers will never take the lead in improving
>efficiency until the customers demand it.
>Electic resistance heating is the least efficient means to fire pottery,
>yet, the average home-made gas kiln has 9" thick walls, while
>electric kiln manufacturers still chun out a product that would make
>a '57 Caddy look like a fuel efficient car.
>
>I'd say their credibility is pretty low.
>I would certainly weigh what they say with what a knowledgeable
>potter says.
>
>David Hendley
>Maydelle, Texas
>See David Hendley's Pottery Page at
>http://www.sosis.com/hendley/david/
David Hendley on fri 13 mar 98
Ian Ian,
A 9" thick brick wall is not needed to make an efficient electric
kiln, and such a kiln would not be very portable if the chamber
size was large.
An efficient kiln would include a couple of inches of fiber insulation
around 3 or 4 inch thick brick walls and more insulation on the top
and bottom.
The extra cost of materials for such a kiln would be a few hundred dollars.
I believe that such a kiln would quickly pay for its extra cost with fuel
savings.
I'm not suggesting that you would have to buy such a kiln, but I contend
that if kiln manufacturers were interested in "championing progress" they
would have started incorporating insulating blanket and board in their
designs decades ago, and would now offer super-insulated kilns.
I put kiln manufacturers in the same class as other manufacturers.
Appliance manufacturers did not start to produce more efficient
appliances until it was government mandated.
We all know about the automobile industry. Detroit had to be knocked
off its feet by imported cars to start taking fuel efficiency seriously.
The problem is that fuel efficiency is not something that looks snazzy
or can be easily discerned. Thus, the fuel efficient product costs more money
to produce but doesn't "look like" it's worth more.
Perhaps a tag, showing how much a cone 10 firing would cost, should
be required on every kiln, the same as ratings on appliances and milage
estimates on cars?
You would be much more comfortable working in your 200 square
foot studio in the summer if you had a more efficient electric kiln.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
See David Hendley's Pottery Page at
http://www.sosis.com/hendley/david/
At 10:08 AM 3/12/98 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I think in a certain point of view you make it look so right to say "Kiln
>manufacturers care about one thing:
>Selling kilns. Nothing else"
>
>You will love a kiln like your home-made one with a 9" Bricks thick wall
>in it . Hey my friends told me that they seen one in Japan .
>And it is only $8,000 US for some thing Diameter around 15"..(Dear Potters
>from Japan, Correct me if I'm wrong ).
>
>I'm sure it will be quite efficient .
>
>Re: In North America Year 1998,11th March, Our 18" Diameter Kiln with 22" in
>Height (interior) is about $1,200-$1,500 US.That is not art, that only help
>potter's to build or start their business easier.
>Remind you not every body ( I'm talking about myself now) have a piece of
>land to build their own gas kiln .
>
>Ther is people only have 200 Sq foot Studio and working happily , & still
>thought that it is a gift from God .
>
>Ian Ian
>
>
>At 09:40 AM 3/11/98 EST, you wrote:
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>
>>Kiln manufacturers care about one thing:
>>Selling kilns. Nothing else.
>>
>>How else can you explain the woefully under- insulated
>>electric kilns that are passed off as the standard ceramic kiln?
>>
>>2 1/2" thick walls for a kiln that reaches 22 or 2300 degress?
>>Disgusting.
>>I have a 'deluxe' model. 3" thick bricks instead of 2 1/2".
>>Big whoop.
>>How about the 'double insulated' kiln?
>>Bricks on edge backed by 1/2" of ridgid insulation.
>>Laughable.
>>
>>Why should their attitude towards ceramic coatings be any
>>different? So what if they will make the kiln more efficient, it
>>costs money and will thus either reduce profit or hurt sales
>>by raising the price.
>>
>>No, the manufacturers will never take the lead in improving
>>efficiency until the customers demand it.
>>Electic resistance heating is the least efficient means to fire pottery,
>>yet, the average home-made gas kiln has 9" thick walls, while
>>electric kiln manufacturers still chun out a product that would make
>>a '57 Caddy look like a fuel efficient car.
>>
>>I'd say their credibility is pretty low.
>>I would certainly weigh what they say with what a knowledgeable
>>potter says.
>>
>
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
See David Hendley's Pottery Page at
http://www.sosis.com/hendley/david/
Paul Monaghan on fri 13 mar 98
David,
You have to realize that the manufacturers are only responding to
consumer demand. I can't see any manufacturer not using 8" walls on a
kiln - IF PEOPLE WOULD PAY THE EXTRA PRICE for the kiln and shipping,
etc., etc..
It's all a matter of engineering trade-offs moderated by economics.
Paul :-)>
David Hendley wrote:
> ----------------------------Original
> message----------------------------
>
> Kiln manufacturers care about one thing:
> Selling kilns. Nothing else.
>
> How else can you explain the woefully under- insulated
> electric kilns that are passed off as the standard ceramic kiln?
>
> 2 1/2" thick walls for a kiln that reaches 22 or 2300 degress?
> Disgusting.
> I have a 'deluxe' model. 3" thick bricks instead of 2 1/2".
> Big whoop.
> How about the 'double insulated' kiln?
> Bricks on edge backed by 1/2" of ridgid insulation.
> Laughable.
>
> Why should their attitude towards ceramic coatings be any
> different? So what if they will make the kiln more efficient, it
> costs money and will thus either reduce profit or hurt sales
> by raising the price.
>
> No, the manufacturers will never take the lead in improving
> efficiency until the customers demand it.
> Electic resistance heating is the least efficient means to fire
> pottery,
> yet, the average home-made gas kiln has 9" thick walls, while
> electric kiln manufacturers still chun out a product that would make
> a '57 Caddy look like a fuel efficient car.
>
> I'd say their credibility is pretty low.
> I would certainly weigh what they say with what a knowledgeable
> potter says.
>
> David Hendley
> Maydelle, Texas
> See David Hendley's Pottery Page at
> http://www.sosis.com/hendley/david/
>
> At 08:02 AM 3/10/98 EST, you wrote:
> >----------------------------Original
> message----------------------------
> >It worries me that somebody on Clayart is suggesting that, in regard
> to
> >ITC, "listening to the kiln manufacturer" is a bad bet.
> >
> >Kiln makers embrace improvements in technology all the time. They
> moved
> >from clay brick to baked brick. Then from hard brick to soft brick.
> They
> >quickly learned to incorporate "alternative" refractory forms like
> fiber
> >blankets and board. They offered "electric fire" elements just as
> soon as
> >electric technology allowed it. The "Kiln Sitter" concept was
> immediately
> >adopted, as well as electronic timers and finally programmable
> controllers.
> > It's easy to see that kiln makers have sought and championed all
> kinds of
> >progress for centuries.
> >
> >In light of their willingness to progress, I suspect that if ITC (or
> any
> >other wonder coating) bore out as a significant step forward, every
> kiln
> >maker would be battling to be "first on the market" with coated
> bricks.
> >But none of them are.
> >
> >I think it's absurd to suggest that kiln manufacturers are suddenly
> less
> >credible than any "potter, any ole day"! And if manufacturer's are
> to be
> >disregarded about this, why take their word on voltage, amperage,
> >grounding, temperature range, or anything else? I think the
> suggestion to
> >disregard them in this matter is highly selective, and I suspect it
> as
> >wholly apologist.
> >
> >If a coating manufacturer can't/won't cough up real evidence that
> their
> >product works, why would any responsible kiln builder use it?
> >
> >
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