Kenneth Poe on wed 18 mar 98
So right about the Kiln affects which is why for a saggar firing/be it
salt, soda, etc, etc... use a separate kiln to avoid contaminating your
primary kiln. I even use a third kiln for Raku firings. And anyone working
with salts, sodas, oxides, carbonates, or in this case copper sulphate,
extreme care needs to be taken. Proper eye and skin protection and an
approved "gas" respirator is a must. Surgical style "dust" mask WILL NOT
OFFER ANY PROTECTION from the gases be it salt, soda, or other.
At 08:26 AM 3/17/98 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I don't know where this is leading with the CuSO4 but I have read
>in Michael Tichanes (sp?) book, "Reds, Reds, Copper Reds" that sulfur is an
>"enemy" when trying to fire for copper red glazes. Also the sulfur when
>combusted can form various forms of corrosive sulfurous gases which could
>be of NO benefit to your kiln or the pots within... I would recommend
>staying with the copper carbonate. ....Marshall
>
> http://www.PotteryInfo.com
>
> 101 CLAYART MUGS (Summer 1998)
> 2ND ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1998)
> E-MAIL ME FOR APPLICATIONS
> http://fmc.utm.edu/~dmcbeth/cag/naples.htm
>
> Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
> Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
> Clayarters' Live Chat Room, Fri & Sat Nites at 10 PM EDT & Sun at 1 PM EDT
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>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Lisa P Skeen on thu 19 mar 98
Ok y'all, now I'm getting confuzzled. I thought the whole entire PURPOSE
for the saggar was so one could put salt/sulphates/whatever around a pot
WITHOUT hurting the kiln or other pots in the vicinity.
I have one, count 'em, ONE electric kiln. I don't want to kill it, but I
do want to play with it. Therefore, I had planned to make a saggar
and try some fun stuff. Do I hear y'all saying that this is NOT a good
idea?
Lisa Skeen, Living Tree Pottery and Soaps
http://www.uncg.edu/~lpskeen
Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and holds
the universe together.
On Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:51:07 EST Kenneth Poe
writes:
>So right about the Kiln affects which is why for a saggar firing/be it
>salt, soda, etc, etc... use a separate kiln to avoid contaminating
>your>primary kiln.
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Gavin Stairs on fri 20 mar 98
Hi Lisa,
If you were to read my post on bubbles (now visible on Tony Hansen's
Digital Fire site ) you
would read about how much gas is produced in firing glaze (or body, for
that matter). No saggar can contain this gas: it would at least double
the pressure inside the saggar, and that would blow out the seals, if not
the whole saggar. In fact, the air contained in the saggar will already
expand to about 3-4 times its volume from heat alone. So what then is the
saggar for? It is not to retain all the gas, but to control the
atmosphere: The gas in large measure escapes, where it can do bad things
to the kiln elements, but what remains is rich in whatever you put inside
to fume. So, the kiln may not notice that the saggar is there, but the pot
does.
Incidentally, whatever is released only at the highest temperature (i.e.,
not the sulphur and carbon, generally) may not escape from the saggar,
because there may not be enough gas evolution or expansion left to drive it
out. So some of the salts and colorants may be efficiently contained. But
I wouldn't want to assume that until I had tested.
Incidentally, saggars were originally intended not to keep things in, but
to keep them out. Specifically, the fly ash from wood kilns, and the
sulphur from coal.
At 10:14 AM 19/03/98 EST, Lisa wrote:
> ... I thought the whole entire PURPOSE
>for the saggar was so one could put salt/sulphates/whatever around a pot
>WITHOUT hurting the kiln or other pots in the vicinity.
....
Talbott on fri 20 mar 98
The sulfur in the copper sulfate, CuSO4 will decompose during firing and
the sulfur will combine with oxyen to form a sulfur-oxygen, SxOx, product.
I doubt that the sulfur could do anything of a desirable nature to the
glazing of the pots... I would stay with copper carb.. Marshall
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Ok y'all, now I'm getting confuzzled. I thought the whole entire PURPOSE
>for the saggar was so one could put salt/sulphates/whatever around a pot
>WITHOUT hurting the kiln or other pots in the vicinity.
>
>I have one, count 'em, ONE electric kiln. I don't want to kill it, but I
>do want to play with it. Therefore, I had planned to make a saggar
>and try some fun stuff. Do I hear y'all saying that this is NOT a good
>idea?
>
>Lisa Skeen, Living Tree Pottery and Soaps
>http://www.uncg.edu/~lpskeen
>Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and holds
>the universe together.
>
>On Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:51:07 EST Kenneth Poe
>writes:
>
>>So right about the Kiln affects which is why for a saggar firing/be it
>>salt, soda, etc, etc... use a separate kiln to avoid contaminating
>>your>primary kiln.
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
http://www.PotteryInfo.com
101 CLAYART MUGS (Summer 1998)
2ND ANNUAL CLAYARTERS' GALLERY - NAPLES, MAINE (Summer 1998)
E-MAIL ME FOR APPLICATIONS
Celia & Marshall Talbott, Pottery By Celia, Route 114, P O Box 4116,
Naples, Maine 04055-4116,(207)693-6100 voice and fax,(call first)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Vince Pitelka on fri 20 mar 98
At 10:14 AM 3/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Ok y'all, now I'm getting confuzzled. I thought the whole entire PURPOSE
>for the saggar was so one could put salt/sulphates/whatever around a pot
>WITHOUT hurting the kiln or other pots in the vicinity.
>
>I have one, count 'em, ONE electric kiln. I don't want to kill it, but I
>do want to play with it. Therefore, I had planned to make a saggar
>and try some fun stuff. Do I hear y'all saying that this is NOT a good
>idea?
Lisa -
This is NOT a good idea if you are going to use any materials which produce
quantiities of corrosive gases. The sagger does not protect the kiln and
elements at all. It just concentrates the sagger atmosphere around the
pots/sculpture, rather than exhausting it with combustion gases (in a gas
kiln). Some of the materials people put in saggers would be extremely
destructive to your elements (salts, soda, sulfates, nitrates). I have a
student who is doing tin-foil sagger firing in electric kilns, using only
organic food materials and charcoal, and getting some very nice results
without damaging the kiln. Use extra large tin foil, and fold all the edges
over several times to seal it well. My student is firing to 1000 degrees,
and the foil remains intact.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Lisa P Skeen on sat 21 mar 98
Build a saggar? Firebricks? Now THAT"S something I never heard of.
Saggar, to me = a large pot with tight lid that holds 1 or more smaller
pots and combustibles/colorants, etc. Said item would then be placed
inside the kiln to be fired w/ everything else.
Lisa Skeen, Living Tree Pottery and Soaps
http://www.uncg.edu/~lpskeen
Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and holds
the universe together.
On Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:12:00 -0500 Kenneth Poe
writes:
>I don't know what you are using to build your saggar,
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Lisa P Skeen on sat 21 mar 98
Thanks, folks, for the clarification here. Looks like I'll hafta do a
saggar firing in the GAS kiln before the end of the semester...
Lisa Skeen, Living Tree Pottery and Soaps
http://www.uncg.edu/~lpskeen
Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and holds
the universe together.
On Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:42:19 EST Gavin Stairs
writes:
what then is >the>saggar for?
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Lisa P Skeen on sat 21 mar 98
Zowie, that Reynolds Wrap is some tough stuff, no? I've got a box
of seaweed from Mark Issenberg that is earmarked for this type of thing.
It's in storage now though.....along with almost everything else I
own.
Looks like I'm going to have to get organized and take a month to try
each of the new things I have in mind.
Lisa Skeen, Living Tree Pottery and Soaps
http://www.uncg.edu/~lpskeen
Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and holds
the universe together.
On Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:49:09 EST Vince Pitelka
writes:
I >have a>student who is doing tin-foil sagger firing in electric
kilns, using
>only>organic food materials and charcoal, and getting some very nice
>results>without damaging the kiln. Use extra large tin foil, and fold
all the
>edges>over several times to seal it well. My student is firing to 1000
>degrees,>and the foil remains intact.
_____________________________________________________________________
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Gracedart on sun 22 mar 98
Vince,I am very interested in what brings images of a foil wrapped baked
potato in an oven...ie foil saggar in electric kiln with food organics rather
than metals...is that all there is to it? What about the salts of organics
like seaweed and clam shells? Would you think the salts that I am told have
copper would be a problem in the electric kiln ? What cone do you fire? I'd
really like to do this at the camp where I work during the summer...can you
pass on any details so I can introduce my kids to this technique...
thanks in advance
Grace
Michelle H. Lowe on mon 23 mar 98
At 08:50 AM 3/21/98 EST, Lisa P Skeen wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Build a saggar? Firebricks? Now THAT"S something I never heard of.
>Saggar, to me = a large pot with tight lid that holds 1 or more smaller
>pots and combustibles/colorants, etc. Said item would then be placed
>inside the kiln to be fired w/ everything else.
I've been chatting with potter Lowell Webb in Alabama (hi capt!) over on
the #pottery irc channel and he has several times mentioned that they build
saggars from firebrick. He saggars in a gas kiln and gets some *gorgeous*
results, if pictures are any indication.
He just build a firebrick container right there on the kiln shelf...sounds
simple enough to me!
Mishy, VERY excited about NCECA coming up and planning on trying this
firebrick saggar stuff when she gets back...see ya all there!
Michelle Lowe, potter in the Phoenix desert \|/ |
mishlowe@indirect.com -O- | |
mishlowe@aztec.asu.edu /|\ | | |
|_|_|
http://www.amug.org/~mishlowe ____ |
-\ /-----|-----
( )
<__>
Vince Pitelka on mon 23 mar 98
At 07:48 PM 3/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Vince,I am very interested in what brings images of a foil wrapped baked
>potato in an oven...ie foil saggar in electric kiln with food organics rather
>than metals...is that all there is to it? What about the salts of organics
>like seaweed and clam shells? Would you think the salts that I am told have
>copper would be a problem in the electric kiln ? What cone do you fire? I'd
>really like to do this at the camp where I work during the summer...can you
>pass on any details so I can introduce my kids to this technique...
>thanks in advance
>Grace
>
Grace -
As long as you avoid any concentrations of salts you should get some very
interesting results. Make up a good terra sig - a ball clay version and a
redart version. Apply mulitple coats to the bone dry wares and when
absorbed (but not dry) polish them with soft cloth and then grocery-bag
plastic stretched over the fingertip. Or smear them with a thin skim coat
of lard or crisco and burnish them with a shiny stone.
But that's not what you asked about. I go off on tangents. Actually, the
reason I suggested the above is because aluminum foil sagger (perhaps we
should just start calling it "baked potato sagger" - I like that) effects
are so much more dramatic on a terra sig finish. You can make your terra
sig any time you want and just dry it out. At camp you can reconstitute it
over night in water, and thin it to a working consistency. It doesn't hurt
it a bit to dry it out. My whole spiel on making terra sig is on Tony
Hansen's webpage at http://digitalfire.com/education/glaze/terasig.htm
Soak your seashells and seaweed in fresh water for a day or so and dry them
out before using in sagger. That should eliminate most of the salt, but all
the wonderful minerals will still be present. Otherwise, any kind of
organic wastes work great, and give widely differing results - coffee
grounds, banana peels, animal (vegetarian) manure, sawdust, apple and/or
potato peels, bailing twine (the fibrous kind - not the plastic kind),
twigs, branches, stems, leaves, etc. You can fasten stuff directly to the
surface with cheap iron or copper wire, tie it on with twine, or just pack
it around the pieces so that the foil holds it in place. Fold all your foil
seams over several times, and handle very carefully in placing the work in
the kiln so that the foil does not come open anywhere. In a gas kiln you
can tape the seams with duct tape, which keeps the folded seams together
until the piece is in the kiln, but I would not do that in an electric kiln.
Good luck. This does seem a great thing to do with your campers. The other
great thing to do with terra sigged, polished/burnished, low-bisqued wares
is to bonfire them. Kids love fire, and it can be done completely safely.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Louise K Condon on mon 23 mar 98
-Reply
Vince..the tin foil technique sounds interesting.. is it fired till temp reaches
removed from kiln and placed in contianer with combustibles as in raku?Could you
the procedure?Thanks!Rikki
Vince Pitelka on tue 24 mar 98
At 11:03 AM 3/23/98 -0500, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> -Reply
>
>Vince..the tin foil technique sounds interesting.. is it fired till temp
reaches
>removed from kiln and placed in contianer with combustibles as in
raku?Could you
>the procedure?Thanks!Rikki
Rikki -
In sagger firing you leave the pieces inside the sagger until normal kiln
unloading temperatures.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Louise K Condon on wed 25 mar 98
-Reply
Vince- This saggar with tin foil ..works best with terra sig glazes due to low
temp?Thanks,Rikki
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