David Furman on thu 19 mar 98
Hi ClayArters, I have gotten a modest grant from a mining company and am
involved in a project that some of you may find interesting. I've teamed
up with a film maker, and we are in pre-production for a film on raku
process. We tentatively have titled the work, "From The Earth". The kiln
is made of adobes which we made by hand, and the arch is corbelled. The
front of the kiln is mostly a large thin slab of mica, donated by the
mining company, and polished to the quality of a glass window. It can
withstand temperatures of over 1900 farenheit. Our concept is to document
the process, and that will include filming the glaze on the pot(s) melting
during the firing. We will probably use a mild version of time lapse
photography while the glaze is melting on the pot. The mica window will
keep the heat in, but give us a clear visual of what is happening inside
the kiln. Everyone is excited about this project. The kiln bricks/adobes
are hand made; the clay is from a natural deposit, and the glaze materials
are also found in situ. Burner system from recycled parts. Like totally
organic and natural!
We have been debating over sources and types of fuel to use. We've ruled
out wood, oil, and electricity for obvious reasons. We are interested in
truely renewable resources, and interestingly enough, natural gas came up
as a possibility. Natural gas from humans, that is. We thought about
creating a "fuel bank" by having free weekend Bar-B-Q bean eat-a-thons,
and advertising the event by putting announcments on car windows in
shopping centers, but couldn't figure out the wording. Like, would they
think we were too weird? More importantly, we were unsure of collection
methodology, and were no less unsure as to what the people who came to the
events as donors might think. We were also worried about the police.
Someone suggested cows as a resource, as there are a number of large stock
yards not far from town. They are famous for producing "clean burning
methane" We've been trying to figure out a collection system, and that is
troubling. But we've been to several dive shops and several of the
employees said the gas could be compressed, just as they compress oxygen
for scubas tanks (one guy wanted to borrow a tank when it was filled, and
take it to a party as a joke!). We think that methane would be our best
bet, but collection still poses a problem for us. How should we do this in
a graceful way? Should we do this when they are calm, and feeding? Will
the cows be pissed? Maybe some of you "regulars" could come up with some
solutions to this hurdle. You all have great ideas, so any contribution
(gaseous or otherwise) will be welcomed! We feel this could really be a
great instructional film with a wonderful process orientation, so please
give this some thought and get back to us.
John H. Rodgers on fri 20 mar 98
-- [ From: John H. Rodgers * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
David, this is a hoot!!!
If you guys are for real, you are missing a bet by not getting acquainted
with your local pig farmers and checking out their pig parlors. Easier to
deal with than cows. They (the pigs) produce some prime stuff for producing
methane gas. And you betcha it can be processed, compressed and liquified.
Like any other gas, explosive if not handled right. There are numerous books
and articles on the subject of methane production. Might even be able to get
info on it off the internet.
Good luck.
John Rodgers
In Alabama
-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------
Date: Thursday, 19-Mar-98 05:53 PM
From: David Furman \ Internet: (dfurman@calvin.pitzer.edu)
To: Clayart \ Internet: (clayart@lsv.uky.edu)
Subject: Natural gas as a fuel source
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Hi ClayArters, I have gotten a modest grant from a mining company and am
involved in a project that some of you may find interesting. I've teamed up
with a film maker, and we are in pre-production for a film on raku process.
We tentatively have titled the work, "From The Earth". The kiln is made of
adobes which we made by hand, and the arch is corbelled. The front of the
kiln is mostly a large thin slab of mica, donated by the mining company, and
polished to the quality of a glass window. It can withstand temperatures of
over 1900 farenheit. Our concept is to document the process, and that will
include filming the glaze on the pot(s) melting during the firing. We will
probably use a mild version of time lapse photography while the glaze is
melting on the pot. The mica window will keep the heat in, but give us a
clear visual of what is happening inside the kiln. Everyone is excited about
this project. The kiln bricks/adobes are hand made; the clay is from a
natural deposit, and the glaze materials are also found in situ. Burner
system from recycled parts. Like totally organic and natural!
We have been debating over sources and types of fuel to use. We've ruled out
wood, oil, and electricity for obvious reasons. We are interested in truely
renewable resources, and interestingly enough, natural gas came up as a
possibility. Natural gas from humans, that is. We thought about creating a
"fuel bank" by having free weekend Bar-B-Q bean eat-a-thons, and advertising
the event by putting announcments on car windows in shopping centers, but
couldn't figure out the wording. Like, would they think we were too weird?
More importantly, we were unsure of collection methodology, and were no less
unsure as to what the people who came to the events as donors might think.
We were also worried about the police.
Someone suggested cows as a resource, as there are a number of large stock
yards not far from town. They are famous for producing "clean burning
methane" We've been trying to figure out a collection system, and that is
troubling. But we've been to several dive shops and several of the employees
said the gas could be compressed, just as they compress oxygen for scubas
tanks (one guy wanted to borrow a tank when it was filled, and take it to a
party as a joke!). We think that methane would be our best bet, but
collection still poses a problem for us. How should we do this in a graceful
way? Should we do this when they are calm, and feeding? Will the cows be
pissed? Maybe some of you "regulars" could come up with some solutions to
this hurdle. You all have great ideas, so any contribution (gaseous or
otherwise) will be welcomed! We feel this could really be a great
instructional film with a wonderful process orientation, so please give this
some thought and get back to us.
-------- REPLY, End of original message --------
Bill Aycock on sat 21 mar 98
concerning David Furmans project:
Be Advised- the collection of methane from cattle feed lots is a
commercially viable process, and the equipment to process the product is
available on the open market.
However- despite popular folklore, the methane produced this way is about
equally diluted with other gasses. The accompanying gas is mostly CO2,
which prevents the Methane from burning very well.These gasses are usually
removed by bubbling through Lime water. (not the fruit kind) The resulting
precipitate is calcium carbonate, which is then sold to potters as whiting.
I kid you not.-- Bill
Bill Aycock --- Persimmon Hill
Woodville, Alabama, US 35776
(in the N.E. corner of the State)
W4BSG -- Grid EM64vr
baycock@HiWAAY.net
Vince Pitelka on sat 21 mar 98
Years ago a friend of mine who teaches environmental studies in Northern
California went to China with a federal government-sponsered group observing
small-scale methane harvesting from human and animal waste, used to heat
houses and cook food. If you wish, I can contact him and get some more
information. Let me know.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Ray Carlton on sun 22 mar 98
well actually where I come from "natural gas" is piped from under the
ground and has taken over from "town gas" which was that generated from
heating coal and largely a superceded technology. "Methane gas" is that gas
generated from decomposing organic material. efficient production can be
obtained from animal droppings. The technology is not that simple but not
impossible to set up and works similar to the way the old "town gas" used
to work. There are cities in europe that have much of their electricity
generated from methane gas collected from the local rubbish dump...As i
remeber it the big problem with methane was that it was difficult to get
the pressure up high enough to do any serious work.... Has any body thought
of using ethanol which is easily produced and also a sustainable
technology...A lot of these ideas were hot topics in the 70's when we were
all hairy, ate nothing but lentils and brown rice, wore gumboots and
talked a lot of movin up country....I'm sure if you pulled out dads old
hippy books you would find plenty of info on the topic...I never saw one
methane collector or water wheel generator that actually worked but Im sure
there were and is plenty that did and still do....These are intriguing
possibilities but who has the time to research, test and build this stuff???
If you do, good luck to you and your family :))
cheers :) Ray Carlton
McMahons Creek Victoria Australia
Kevin H. Miller on sun 22 mar 98
On Thu, 19 Mar 1998 David Furman wrote
(in part):
> ... we are in pre-production for a film on raku process ...
> We have been debating over sources and types of fuel to use.
> We've ruled out wood, oil, and electricity for obvious reasons.
> We are interested in truely renewable resources, and interestingly
> enough, natural gas came up as a possibility.
> Someone suggested cows as a resource, as there are a number
> of large stock yards not far from town. They are famous for
> producing "clean burning methane" We've been trying to figure
> out a collection system, and that is troubling.... We think
> that methane would be our best bet, but collection still poses
> a problem for us.
This is a great idea, and could actually be quite workable. You may know
that in many developing countries, especially in Africa and Asia, fuel
for cooking is a considerable problem. Many areas of the world have been
denuded of their trees as people search for fuel. Dried animal dung is
often collected and burned, but in some areas methane production (or
"biogas conversion") has become popular.
The technology can be very basic. There are many simple designs for
biogas converters (they can be made from a variety of local materials,
such as adobe). Feed them with animal wastes and the anaerobic microbes
go to work, providing a steady, low pressure source of "biogas" (mostly
methane).
I don't have a ready design reference available for you, but a few minutes
at your local library or a web search should provide ample information.
I seem to remember that Rodale has a book that includes plans--you might
try Island Press, too. Come to think of it, the first time I heard about
biogas systems was like 25 years ago in the "Last Whole Earth Catalogue."
Got any back issues of "Co-Evolution Quarterly" or "Whole Earth Review"
lying around?
Best wishes on your project. That slab of mica must be impressive!
Roberta and Kevin Miller
cn1919@coastalnet.com
HAL M DEWITTIE on mon 23 mar 98
David, You might consider the avenue of purchasing methane from a
business/organization that is already doing the kind of collection
you're talking about. It would eliminate a consumption of your time
and money, and still adhere to the spirit of what you're trying to do.
A search on the internet of "methane+collection" turned up a number of
interesting sites:
http://cgi.amcity.com/albany/stories/032497/story1.html
http://www.crest.org/efficiency/ev-list-archive/9708/msg00146.html
http://www.eltec.ab.ca/pages/landf1.html
http://www.joplinglobe.com/july96/july25/072596f3.html
http://www.iclei.org/efacts/enrgywst.htm
http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~natres/courses/su97/wet_inst.html
Also, you might consider contacting a local college or university for
leads. Or your mining company might know of a source.
Regards, Hal DeWittie, Harrisburg, PA, USA
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