OWL POTTER on wed 8 apr 98
After reading about the Cobalt in the pet food here on Clayart, I am turning
over almost every food I purchase and reading the ingredients. Everyday I
take a well-known brand name "high potency multivitamin formula with minerals"
caplet which contains the following: 2 mg Copper,
5 mg Manganese, 15 mg Chromium and 15 mcg Molybdenum, among other things.
This list reads more like a toxic glaze recipe than something I should be
taking every day for my health!
Carolynn Palmer, Somerset Center, Michigan
John H. Rodgers on thu 9 apr 98
-- [ From: John H. Rodgers * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
Hi, Carolynn.
I understand your amazement over the "Toxic Chemicals" list that is on the
packaging in our foods, and other things.
The fact is though, our bodies have a need for all those things in order to
function correctly. These are the "trace elements" that go into us to make
the electrolytes that are so critical to the operation of the systems of our
body. If any of these get out of whack because of electrolyte imbalance all
kinds of weirdness occurs, we get sick, and maybe even die.
Something so seemingly simple as a bad round of flu with significant diarhea
can be a threat because it flushes water out of the body, thus concentrating
the electrolytes ---- which is a no-no, or dumping some of them overboard
and getting out of balance, which is also a no-no.
Example: People on high blood pressure medication often suffer a loss of
potassium due to medical tampering with the system to get the blood pressure
down. In turn something else has to be done to replace the potassium. Else
the osmotic pressure in the kidneys is affected, which in turn affect the
volume of unrine which in turn requires a durectic be added to the
medication which in turn ......and on and on. So these things are very
important.
All the systems in the body undergo constant chemical change and renewal
and the presence of these chemicals in proper quantities is critical to
proper chemical reactions within. The entire process of all the chemistry of
the body might be lumped together under the name "Respiration" and the
equation for it if written on a chalk board would probably go around a large
class room about 6 times. And if you could see such a thing, all along the
way, intermixed with all the numbers, letters, subscripts, superscripts, etc
, there would be Fe(iron), Na(sodium), K(potassium), Cl(chlorine), Ca
(calcium), Mn(manganese), Mg(magnesium), Co(cobalt), Cu(copper), Cr(Chromium
), Mb(molybdenum) and on and on. Trace elements.
The equation is one in equilibrium, and if all the requirements are met,
with the input of energy to replace that which is lost during the chemistry,
the equation will continue to run.(There are actually many smaller ones
running together to make the bigger one). In certain circles its called
"Life". As long as the equilibrium remains constant, nothing changes, all
is well. If any of these electrolytes are changed in quantity, up or down,
illness occurs. If the change is sufficient to cause the equation to "run to
completion", ie, reach a point of irreversable change, the equilibrium is
gone, the chemistry stops, heat from the chemistry dissipates, things cool
down, and where living things are concerned, it is called "Death"--------
Hence the critical nature of the trace elements, our dependence on them, yet
our concern and the conflict over them when we encounter sources that are
providing to much of those elements. Such as leachings from our glazes into
our food, ingestion and inhalation of chemical dust or fumes, and absorption
through the skin from direct contact, our clothing or other fomites.
John Rodgers
In Alabama
REPLY, Original message follows --------
Date: Wednesday, 08-Apr-98 08:34 AM
From: Carolynn Palmer \ America On-Line: (OWLPOTTER)
To: Clayart \ Internet: (clayart@lsv.uky.edu)
Subject: Re: Manganese and other toxic minerals
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
After reading about the Cobalt in the pet food here on Clayart, I am turning
over almost every food I purchase and reading the ingredients. Everyday I
take a well-known brand name "high potency multivitamin formula with
minerals"
caplet which contains the following: 2 mg Copper,
5 mg Manganese, 15 mg Chromium and 15 mcg Molybdenum, among other things.
This list reads more like a toxic glaze recipe than something I should be
taking every day for my health!
Carolynn Palmer, Somerset Center, Michigan
-------- REPLY, End of original message --------
Gavin Stairs on thu 9 apr 98
At 08:34 AM 4/8/98 EDT, Carolynn Palmer wrote:
....
>5 mg Manganese, 15 mg Chromium and 15 mcg Molybdenum, among other things.
>This list reads more like a toxic glaze recipe than something I should be
>taking every day for my health!
The thing about toxicology is that everything is toxic at some level.
Hardly any exceptions. The question is what level? That is, how much?
Toxicologists try to establish the 50% mortality level. With something
like water, it is inconceivably high (i.e., drowning). With arsenic,
small. With cyanide or strychnine, very small. Most of the elements and
vitamins have moderately small levels, but some, like vitamin C, are quite
large. It's rather hard to poison yourself with vitamin C. Not so hard
with iron and vitamin B complex. Monona wrote about the overlap of the
toxic dose and the theraputic dose of Lithium in the recent CM. I am
oversimplifying, of course. There are synergistic effects which make it
highly variable in some cases.
The issue with trace elements is that we need some, but not too much. The
dose in a multivitamin capsule is calculated to be enough for a daily
requirement for a healthy adult, but not enough to be toxic, even if the
person taking it has several times the ordinary daily intake from other
sources.
The issue with pottery leaching is that we are not in the business of
mineral supplements, and we cannot give a carefully controlled dose of what
leaches from our pots. With some things, like silica, this is not a
problem. With others, like cobalt and iron, it is rarely a problem. With
things like chrome, vanadium, molybdenum, lithium, barium, perhaps
aluminum, and so forth, it may be a problem. With lead and cadmium it
definitely is a problem in certain cases. In some of these cases, we don't
know if it is a problem or not. The safe situation is to have durable
glazes which do not leach significant amounts of anything.
These issues are not simple to quantify, and not simple to interpret. The
conservative stance is to make only durable, well fitted glazes out of safe
materials for food contact liners. The margin is wide: in a previous
post, I offered the personal case of the possibly lead-cobalt glazed bowl
as an example of actual use with little risk to health. On the other hand,
we have heard testimony on this list to personal use leading to poisoning
with molybdenum, lead, and even iron. These cases were all due to chronic
exposure in high risk situations: children drinking acidic juices out of a
favorite, poorly glazed cup every day, and constant use of high-molybdenum
clays by a potter. If we offer ware for sale, or give it away, we must be
aware that people may use our pots in this way, and may be poisoned if we
have not taken care to prevent it. And for our own safety, we must control
our own exposure to all risky substances.
Gavin
the Gallagher's on sun 12 apr 98
John,
I enjoyed your letter and was reminded of something I have often wondered.
I would like to find a table of the elements that has pottery as the symbols.
I've seen the elements done on occasion with other things represented, where
would one go to find a more unusual representation?
Just curious,
Michelle
In Oregon, for one more day, then,
"A-Trekking I Will Go!"
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