NgtvSpace on sun 10 may 98
At the risk of getting blasted, it seems to me that the discussion on the list
virtually centers on techno winnie issues, I realize that these are important
as cyberspace can help in answering many of these questions that contribute to
our work. However there is a topic that is listed in the clay art description
for discussion, such as aesthetics. Other than the Raku Black Velvet Painting
issue and the Geil-Red discussion which seemed to be beaten to fine grog,
there hasnt been much else. Since we are fortunate to have the ability to
communicate over continents in a speedy time, dont you think it would be
worthwhile to have a discussion about issues affecting contemporary ceramics
both for potters and sculptors, not merely use the discussion to exchange
recipes, but to widen our understanding of our own semantics? Is it possible
to elevate our discipline with its 40,000 years of history into a discussion
that rivals the paintors discourse who have much less history than our noble
craft? Will we bring in the 21st century the prevalent attitude that we are
colonial subjects of higher fine art forms?
Hoping like Chris to spark some flames.
Dan Wilson on mon 11 may 98
All aesthetic questions concerning pottery become moot when the potter and
his/hers craft are understood in terms of the pastoral:
"The originator of the pastoral was Theocritus a Greek poet of the 3rd
centry BC. He wrote poems of the lives of Sicilian shepards. Later Virgil
imitated Theocritus and established the enduring model for the traditional
pastoral; an elaborately conventional poem expressing an urban poets
nostalga for the peaceful simplicity of the life of shepherds and other
rural folks in an idealized natural setting.... The term has expanded over
the years tp include critiques of the social structure by contrasting the
simple rural life to the complicated urban. Some critics apply the term
Pastoral to any work which envision a withrawal from ordinary life to a
place apart, close to the elemental rythms of nature, where a man achieves
a new perspective on life in the real and complex world."
A Glossary of Literary Terms. M H Abrams; Holt Reinhardt and Winston
As Urban culture and its systemic aesthetic values become further removed
from its rural origins the value of the potters craft and the role of the
potter as romantic hero in a modern Pastoral will ascend to become th
Don Jones on mon 11 may 98
Is it possible
>to elevate our discipline with its 40,000 years of history into a discussion
>that rivals the paintors discourse who have much less history than our noble
>craft? Will we bring in the 21st century the prevalent attitude that we are
>colonial subjects of higher fine art forms?
>Hoping like Chris to spark some flames.
These things go in cycles. A while ago, all we had were philosophical
discussions about contemp ceramics and such. Stick around and you will see.
:-) implied in all messages and replies
Suzanne Wolfe on mon 11 may 98
In reference to this post regarding discussions of aesthetics, etc. on
clayart, I would like to post a question to the group. The culture we
live in is rapidly changing, and that is, naturally, reflected in the kind
of art work that is being produced. What do we think are the important
questions/considerations that we are going to have to deal with as ceramic
artists in reference to this changing world?
Following are a few preliminary questions:
1. How will ceramics take its place in world that continues to become more
visual (less tactile), more digital (simulated objects replacing "real"
2. How do we break away from the lingering aesthetics of the 50's?
Craig Martell on tue 12 may 98
>At the risk of getting blasted, it seems to me that the discussion on the list
>virtually centers on techno winnie issues, I realize that these are important
>as cyberspace can help in answering many of these questions that contribute to
>our work. However there is a topic that is listed in the clay art description
>for discussion, such as aesthetics.
If you want to talk about aesthetic issues, just send a post to Clayart in
regard to this subject. Hopefully, that will initiate a discussion thread
that will be more to your interest. If you don't relish "techno winnie"
stuff, whatever that means, use your delete key.
Personally, I find discussions on elevating clay or any sort of art or craft
beyond its present stature wonderful cures for insomnia. This reminds me of
the Art History class that I had in college, where we were required to read
"The Social History of Art" by Arnold Hauser, who is or was a Marxist. This
was three volumes of pure torture, dealing with social perceptions of the
"stature" of art and artists in society. He also dealt with "artisans".
I've never much wanted to continue these discussions after this ordeal, I
just do my work and hope for the best. Yes, I have discussions with my
customers and fellow clayheads and others on the subject but only in small
doses. A pint or two of ale doesn't hurt, mixed with lots of winking and
laughter, when struggling with these sorts of issues.
Anyway, this is only relevant to my uptake on things and is presented in
that frame of reference. If these discussions are of interest and relevance
to others, that's OK with me.
Craig Martell-Oregon.....where's that church key???