D. McDysan on fri 5 jun 98
Today I saw 15 pieces from a collection of Picasso ceramics for sale at
a gallery here in Dallas. The prices were obscene and you could easily
buy a house with a pool here for less than what they were asking for a
small plate. The only time I had seen any of this work was in Japan at
the museum in Hakone (wish I had bought the book they had but it was in
japanese) and at the Hemingway house in Key West (there's a sculpture in
the upstairs bedroom that confirmed my addiction to this medium).
The information the gallery person gave me was that Picasso had some
french potters make the forms and he painted them with glazes. A photo
of the potters was then shown to me and I asked if they were artists too
( meaning did they glaze and sell their own work) The reply was no, they
were just potters who made clay forms which artists finished with their
own surface designs.
In my mind potters ARE artists. I realize that many such as Lucero have
pots thrown by another person which are then decorated and used in their
artwork. I admit I have done this myself when I collaborated with a
friend who threw wonderful forms which I glazed. Will some one please
enlighten me as to why a potter is just the person who makes the pot but
an artist is some one who paints on it or glazes it? Does this mean that
a pot with a nice crystaline matt glaze is made by a potter and a
majolica pot with flowers painted on it is made by an artist? What do
you call a person who makes an interesting unglazed altered wheel-thrown
form?
The gallery had work by other contemporary artists who also have their
work made by these french potters and then glaze them and sell them as
their own. Are these people ceramic artists or what? Where's the extra
honor or recognition for those who are master in both form construction
and surface design?
It stands to reason that anything Picasso touched was destined to become
great art, but I'm a little dissapointed to find out that he didn't put
his hands in very much clay.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, there is a book called Ceramics of Picasso by Georges Ramie,1995,
Ediciones Poligrafasa, Barcelona, Spain. ISBN 84-343-0424-4. Does anyone
know how I can get a copy of this?
Debbie McDysan
dmcdysan@onramp.net
http://rampages.onramp.net/~dmcdysan
Lorca Beebe on sat 6 jun 98
Picasso never was called an asshole!
It is precisely the tradition that painters are artists and we are fried shit
that I want to do away with forever. This is why I have an attitude, and
precisely why I hold those who claim to work in cermaics to have a little more
depth than "Clay is Cool Dude!". As far as I'm concerned painters will pay for
there folly in the next century, after all painting is dead, you take it out
on strechers....
Lorca
By the year 2001 all painters will know what an engobe is!
Tara and Michael on sat 6 jun 98
Debbie -- I'm pretty sure that Picasso did most of his pottery decoration
at a pottery in Spain. I believe he decorated the normal forms they made
there. The book you mentioned is very good and should be available through
your library.
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>The information the gallery person gave me was that Picasso had some
>french potters make the forms and he painted them with glazes. A photo
>of the potters was then shown to me and I asked if they were artists too
>( meaning did they glaze and sell their own work) The reply was no, they
>were just potters who made clay forms which artists finished with their
>own surface designs.
------------------------------------------------------
>
>Also, there is a book called Ceramics of Picasso by Georges Ramie,1995,
>Ediciones Poligrafasa, Barcelona, Spain. ISBN 84-343-0424-4. Does anyone
>know how I can get a copy of this?
>
>Debbie McDysan
>dmcdysan@onramp.net
>http://rampages.onramp.net/~dmcdysan
Cindy on sat 6 jun 98
Debbie,
There's a fine line between art and craft. As to where you draw that line,
I wouldn't dare say. I feel that the cups, bowls, and other production ware
I make is fine craft.
I consider my vases, etc., carved with wildlife to be art. Others would
disagree as I do my carving from photographs and make no bones about it--it
is completely imitative of nature. I'm not trying to express deep thought,
but only to create something of beauty meant to bring pleasure to the
beholder.
So . . . lots of folks would call that craft.
Altered vessels might be art or craft, too, depending on whether you're
making a hundred of them, each altered alike, or whether each is different
and designed to express the anguish or ecstasy of your soul.
Personally, I don't care what you call it. To most common folks (like me),
beauty is the goal of art. And if it's beautiful, they won't care if you
call it art. Incidentally, in the higher price ranges, "art" seems to sell
better than "craft". (Just my own experience.) I like to sell, so . . . .
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels
Custer, SD
USA http://blackhills-info.com/a/cindys/menu.htm
Louis Ballard on wed 10 jun 98
Picasso never returned to Spain so he could not have done his ceramics
there. They were produced in Vallauris, France.
Christopher Greenman on thu 8 apr 99
I went to see the Picasso ceramic exhibition at the metropolitain Museum in
New York. Very nice show .....very loose way of working with forms, slips and
glaze. Of course Picasso never threw but had potters throw forms for him.
There are two catalogues for the exhibit. Both cost about $40. each. The
American Craft Museum has a complementary show up on artists working in
industry specifically Servres in France. Got to admit some of the pieces were
interesting but overall a dull show.
Always nice to look through the book/ gift shop.....
Bobbruch1@AOL.COM on tue 6 mar 07
A comment from a friend of mine
who has a collection of her
parent's Picasso ceramics - I had
sent her some of the posts on the
subject. ........ Bob Bruch
<<< On this subject, I am conversant!!!=A0=20
Picasso did work in ceramics and loved=20
it but he was frustrated that he could not=20
throw a pot or bowl to his standards to=20
save himself.=A0 There are some pretty=20
funny stories from the Madoura Gallery=20
about that.=A0 That is why he commissioned=20
the=A0Madoura Factory to make the=A0greenware=20
for him.=A0 He knew what he wanted, he could=20
easily draw what he wanted and of course he=20
could decorate what he envisioned.....=A0
Beth
**************************************
AOL now offers free email to everyone.=20
Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
jim on tue 6 mar 07
Now somehow that brings a smile to my face. Just the thought of Picasso =
not=20
being satisfied by a pot he might throw.. I've seen his pictures and som=
e=20
of his paintings on ceramics and I would think with his style that just=20
about anything that came out might look like his... Just an observation.=
..
Jim
---------- Original Message -----------
From: Bobbruch1@AOL.COM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 18:41:30 EST
Subject: Picasso ceramics
> A comment from a friend of mine
> who has a collection of her
> parent's Picasso ceramics - I had
> sent her some of the posts on the
> subject. ........ Bob Bruch
>=20
> <<< On this subject, I am conversant!!!=A0=20
> Picasso did work in ceramics and loved=20
> it but he was frustrated that he could not=20
> throw a pot or bowl to his standards to=20
> save himself.=A0 There are some pretty=20
> funny stories from the Madoura Gallery=20
> about that.=A0 That is why he commissioned=20
> the=A0Madoura Factory to make the=A0greenware=20
> for him.=A0 He knew what he wanted, he could=20
> easily draw what he wanted and of course he=20
> could decorate what he envisioned.....=A0
> Beth
>=20
> **************************************
> AOL now offers free email to everyone.=20
> Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
>=20
>=20
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> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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------- End of Original Message -------
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