McCoy, Jack Eugene on wed 24 jun 98
What's a good way to smooth the bottoms of pots after they're fired, so
they don't scratch table tops and the like?
Thanks,
Jack
DIANA PANCIOLI, ASSOC. PROF. on wed 24 jun 98
Begin the smoothing process when creating the pots: tap bottoms up in the
center with the palm of your hand to lift them away from the table top.
And roll the edge on a very smooth surface. This only works for untrimmed
pieces.
Diana
On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, McCoy, Jack Eugene wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> What's a good way to smooth the bottoms of pots after they're fired, so
> they don't scratch table tops and the like?
>
> Thanks,
> Jack
>
Olivia T Cavy on wed 24 jun 98
Actually it's better to smooth the pot bottom BEFORE it's fired. You can
add cork or felt feet afterwards, but if the bottom is smooth before
firing, it comes out of the firing smooth. It's not that easy to file
down high fired clay.
Bonnie
Bonnie D. Hellman
Pittsburgh, PA
work email: bdh@firstcaptl.com or oliviatcavy@juno.com
home email: mou10man@sgi.net
On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:54:26 EDT "McCoy, Jack Eugene"
writes:
>----------------------------Original
>message----------------------------
>What's a good way to smooth the bottoms of pots after they're fired,
>so
>they don't scratch table tops and the like?
>
>Thanks,
>Jack
>
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Amy_J@bendcable.com on wed 24 jun 98
Jack, the best & most economical way I've found is to rub 2 pots together,
bottom to bottom. I have a pot that wasn't a "keeper" for anything other
than sanding/smoothing other pots--it works well, keeps the scratches from
my tables!
Best of Luck,
Amy J
-----Original Message-----
From: McCoy, Jack Eugene
To: Multiple recipients of list CLAYART
Date: Wednesday, June 24, 1998 12:57 PM
Subject: Smooth Bottoms
----------------------------Original message----------------------------
What's a good way to smooth the bottoms of pots after they're fired, so
they don't scratch table tops and the like?
Thanks,
Jack
Earl Brunner on wed 24 jun 98
We use valve grinding compound at our studio. Available at any auto supply
store. Be sure to get the type that is water based. It comes in a tube here.
I have an unglazed, high fired porcelain plate that I put the stuff in and
just set the pot in and grind around in it, adding a little water as
necessary. It works great for the seat of lids too. For larger pots I glued
a large concrete block cutting, saw blade flat onto a bat and just stick it on
the wheel and run it while holding the pot. You will want to clean up
carefully after this one though, I expect that the worn pieces/bits of blade
would not do well mixed into say, porcelain. Earl Brunner
Bryan Stecker on wed 24 jun 98
Jack:
Sand the bottoms. I have used a sand-o-flex (sp?) ( I think that's the name
of it) It is a metal wheel that fits on an electric drill. You insert a
special insert that has long thin strips of sand paper. There are many (6 I
think) and they whip around on the drill and it sands all the small spaces.
I put the drill in a vice and then I had two hands to hold the pots and sand
away. I really don't know if they still make these. I havn't used it in
over 10 years. You can also just take medium sand paper and go to town.
Good Luck!
Anne Stecker
McCoy, Jack Eugene wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> What's a good way to smooth the bottoms of pots after they're fired, so
> they don't scratch table tops and the like?
>
> Thanks,
> Jack
Jennifer M. Dubats on wed 24 jun 98
Jack,
I smooth the bottoms of my pots BEFORE I bisque fire them, when they are
leather hard. After trimming, I burnish the bottoms of pots or the foot rim
with my steel rib or a spoon (I dampen slightly if necessary). They are all
smooth and nice after firing, unless I have a glaze mishap.
Hope this helps,
Jenny Dubats
Dave Eitel on thu 25 jun 98
Jack--Mediium grit emery cloth is what I use. I'm not going for velvet
smoothness here, but just enough to remove the roughish feel of the pots.
Even after they've been smoothed at the leather hard stage there seems to
be some roughness which the emery cloth removes. It is available at the
hardware store. Just a few seconds on the foot rim of each pot.
Dave
Dave Eitel
Cedar Creek Pottery
Cedarburg, WI USA
http://www.cedarcreekpottery.com
Vicki Katz on thu 25 jun 98
You can use a smoothing stone or a bit of sanding. The best thing to do is to
trim then use a stone or sandpaper.
Vicki Katz
June Perry on thu 25 jun 98
Dear Jack:
I use a 4" belt sander. Works like a dream!
Regards,
June
Windows 95 INNOVA Media User on thu 25 jun 98
McCoy, Jack Eugene wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> What's a good way to smooth the bottoms of pots after they're fired, so
> they don't scratch table tops and the like?
>
> Thanks,
> Jack
A very-very thin coat of Silicone Cement applied to the bottom of a pot
with one's finger tip will prevent damaging table tops and other
finishes. The cement will remain on the pot even after being washed
hundreds of times in an electric dishwasher. The cement can be
purchased at Walmart, hardware stores, etc. Try
it.
Chic Darnell
Monroe, La.
Earl Brunner on thu 25 jun 98
While there is merit in having the bottom as smooth as possible prior to
firing, some clays will be rougher after firing than before, and not every
pot has an intended use that will allow for either felt or cork pads on the
bottom. Clays with certain types and sizes of silica sand in then
particularly are prone to be rougher after firing. A very fine finish can be
created after firing using valve c\grinding compound. See my other posting
about this
Earl Brunner
<< ---------------------------Original message----------------------------
Actually it's better to smooth the pot bottom BEFORE it's fired. You can
add cork or felt feet afterwards, but if the bottom is smooth before
firing, it comes out of the firing smooth. It's not that easy to file
down high fired clay.
Bonnie
Bonnie D. Hellman
Pittsburgh, PA >>
Stephen Mills on thu 25 jun 98
For stoneware I rub one pot bottom against another in a circular motion.
Earthenware I burnish before firing.
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , McCoy, Jack Eugene writes
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>What's a good way to smooth the bottoms of pots after they're fired, so
>they don't scratch table tops and the like?
>
>Thanks,
>Jack
>
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
home e-mail: stevemills@mudslinger.demon.co.uk
work e-mail: stevemills@bathpotters.demon.co.uk
own website: http://www.mudslinger.demon.co.uk
BPS website: http://www.bathpotters.demon.co.uk
Des Howard on thu 25 jun 98
At 15:54 24/06/98 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>What's a good way to smooth the bottoms of pots after they're fired, so
>they don't scratch table tops and the like?
>
>Thanks,
>Jack
>
Jack
Try a carborundum scythe stone, break it in two, just the right grit mesh,
easy to hold, dunk pot in water with a bit of kitchen detergent & grind away.
ps. the sludge that accumulates in the bottom of the plastic wash bowl is
excellent for lapping in lids& smoothing galleries.
Des
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW 2850
Australia
61 02 63736419
djhoward@lisp.com.au
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW 2850
Australia
61 02 63736419
djhoward@lisp.com.au
Edward Cowell on fri 26 jun 98
Jack:
There should be no need to sand bottoms of finished pots. At the leather
hard stage, after tooling, sponge the surface and run a rib over the bottom
and foot to compress the clay and smooth out the bits. If after bisque
firing you still find a few rough spots, then you can sand them. But wear
a mask or sand outside. That clay dust is deadly and shouldn't be breathed
in.
Laurie Cowell,
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Bill Aycock on fri 26 jun 98
Several people have mentioned that making the bottoms smooth at the green
or bisque stages should do the job. This only works if you do not have an
appreciable amount of Grog or other filler that has already done most of
its shrinking. With Grog, which has already been fired and done some, if
not all, its shrinkage, the shrinkage of the clay when it is fired usually
leaves the Grog particles standing "proud" (an old sailor term) of the
clay. This is the roughage that still needs to be removed.
Bill- sweating it out in record setting heat, on Persimmon Hill.(D--n el-
nino)
Bill Aycock --- Persimmon Hill
Woodville, Alabama, US 35776
(in the N.E. corner of the State)
W4BSG -- Grid EM64vr
baycock@HiWAAY.net
Cindy on fri 26 jun 98
Jack,
I use a belt sander with aluminum oxide sand paper. I used to sand before
bisque, after bisque, and after glaze, but now I only sand after glaze.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels
Custer, SD
USA http://blackhills-info.com/a/cindys/menu.htm
Diane Woloshyn on fri 26 jun 98
Jack,
I sand all the bottoms of my pots on a drum sander. Only takes a minute for
each piece and prevents scratches. OF course, always wear a mask.
Diane in hot and burning Florida
John & Anne Worner on fri 26 jun 98
Hi!
Axner Pottery Supply - 1-800-843-7057 - carries "The Grinder", a neat little
handheld grinding stone that you wet. It works really well on stoneware, and
porcelain becomes smooth as glass. It's cheap too: $5.00, and will last a long
time.
Anne Worner
Spring, TX
Des Howard wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> At 15:54 24/06/98 EDT, you wrote:
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >What's a good way to smooth the bottoms of pots after they're fired, so
> >they don't scratch table tops and the like?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Jack
> >
>
> Jack
> Try a carborundum scythe stone, break it in two, just the right grit mesh,
> easy to hold, dunk pot in water with a bit of kitchen detergent & grind away.
> ps. the sludge that accumulates in the bottom of the plastic wash bowl is
> excellent for lapping in lids& smoothing galleries.
> Des
>
> Des & Jan Howard
> Lue Pottery
> Lue NSW 2850
> Australia
>
> 61 02 63736419
> djhoward@lisp.com.au
> Des & Jan Howard
> Lue Pottery
> Lue NSW 2850
> Australia
>
> 61 02 63736419
> djhoward@lisp.com.au
Bobbi Bassett on sat 27 jun 98
WE use a grinding stone meant for those table top grinders to smooth the
bottoms of pots. We lay it on its side and put it in the giffon grip on the
wheel. Makes a great, hands free, grinder.
Bobbi
Sat. 91 degs. in the shade in PA
Clyde Tullis on sun 28 jun 98
This sanding the bottoms of pieces has really only become an issue since
a certain Calif. Clay company has seem it's success.
Laguna uses a sand or grog that is extremly PROUD at cone 10 and no
matter what you do before the final firing you will still need to sand
the bottoms of your pots. Use what ever is best to do this but your
still adding another step at the end of a already long proccess.
Clyde Tullis
c/o Raven Hill, Inc and MUDLARK POTTERY
0111 County Road 45
Howard, CO 81233
719-942-4772
FAX 719-942-3211
mudlark@ris.net
Pamela & Evan Kohler-Camp on sun 28 jun 98
Hi Jack!
I use a speck clay made with manganese. Sometimes (often) the manganese
specks poke out farther after ^6 firing. I use a dremmel tool with a
silicon carbide bit. That can be expensive to buy but definately worth the
trouble.
Pam in Atlanta, where "I'm melting" has taken on a new depth in this heatwave.
At 03:54 PM 6/24/1998 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>What's a good way to smooth the bottoms of pots after they're fired, so
>they don't scratch table tops and the like?
>
>Thanks,
>Jack
>
Phyllis E. Tilton on mon 29 jun 98
Hi: My question is not about smoothing the bottom but about grinding the
manganese flecks and the getting the stuff airborne. I have also wondered
about the flecks and if they can leach into food. Common sense would say that
the clay companies would not put those in if they were not safe but are they?
I have had some beautiful pieces where the fleck comes through the glaze but I
have always had a little worry about it so have quit using the fleck clays. If
I'm wrong to worry about it, tell me.
Thanks
Phyllis
Pamela & Evan Kohler-Camp on tue 30 jun 98
Phyllis,
I have been assured by my clay producer that it is safe. I'm sure that
there are many wiser heads than mine who can give you the pros and cons on
the clay body.
IMPORTANT I do sand outside with a dust mask and a pair of safety glasses
on. I usually do a large quantity at a time. Another potter has had the
body tested independently that she and I both use. It tested out perfectly
safe. My advice is to check with your dealer and have your body tested as
well. Your peace of mind is too important to ignore.
Pamela
At 10:04 AM 6/29/1998 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Hi: My question is not about smoothing the bottom but about grinding the
>manganese flecks and the getting the stuff airborne. I have also wondered
>about the flecks and if they can leach into food. Common sense would say that
>the clay companies would not put those in if they were not safe but are they?
>I have had some beautiful pieces where the fleck comes through the glaze
but I
>have always had a little worry about it so have quit using the fleck
clays. If
>I'm wrong to worry about it, tell me.
>
>Thanks
>Phyllis
>
Randall Moody on thu 2 jul 98
I was taught to run a soft rubber rib along the foot after trimming. You
can also use your moistened finger. I fired to cone 10 red. and have had no
problems on my thrown items I am still working on the feet of my hand built
pieces. I hate the idea of post-firing grinding/sanding.
Randall Moody
wmoody@siu.edu
Kate and Phil Smith on fri 3 jul 98
We have been using a thin patch of leather with slip in cleaning
greenware and have found this to be a great means of reducing the need
for buffing after glaze firing. We have used this with a ^6 porcelain as
well as ^6 stoneware with a small amount of fine sand.
foxpots on wed 11 feb 04
Dear Fellow Clay Arters,
When I turn my feet, I take a stainless steel teaspoon and sort of burnish
the foot while it spins.
Jean Wadsworth Cochran
http://www.foxhollowpottery.com
Kim Marie on wed 11 feb 04
I work in cone 6 stoneware and usually have used aluminum oxide 60 grit
sandpaper on a palm sander to smooth the bottoms of pieces. Lately I'm not
happy with the results. I'd like smoother bottoms. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Kim Marie
---
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Vince Pitelka on wed 11 feb 04
I haven't followed all of this thread, but the very best tool for getting
silky smooth bottoms is an abrasive flap wheel on a 6" bench grinder. Or,
if you have an old 1/4 HP to 1/2 HP electric motor around, you can get an
arbor adaptor for the motor shaft, and mount the abrasive flap wheel.
Abrasive flap wheels are composed of hundreds of straps of heavy duty
abrasive cloth tightly bound to a central hub, making a very dense wheel
that has some flex to it, so it rounds off sharp edges beautifully.
Go to the grainger.com website, and enter "3DV15" in the search box, and it
will take you to a 120-grit 6" by 1" flap wheel with a 1+ center hole for
$21.78. Then in the search box enter "3DV21" and it will take you to the
$2.06 bushing set you need to adapt the flap wheel to a 1/2" or a 5/8"
arbor.
At the Craft Center we have an abrasive flap wheel mounted on a 1/2 HP
motor, and everyone uses it to clean the bottoms of their pots. Each wheel
lasts us three or four months. For most potters, one wheel would last years
and years, so it is well worth the investment.
Keep in mind that this is not a grindstone. You cannot hog off material
with this wheel. It is for smoothing. The ideal situation is to get a 6"
bench grinder, keep a grindstone on one end, and take the guard off the
other end and mount the abrasive flap wheel. The guard is absolutely
mandatory for any hard grindstone, but with the flap wheel it just gets in
the way.
With any such device, always wear proper eye protection, and when using a
grinder or flapwheel be sure to wear a respirator as well.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Bruce Girrell on wed 11 feb 04
>I'd like smoother bottoms. Any suggestions?
Diamond. Little pointy pieces of grog don't stand a chance.
Any decent woodworker's supply will carry diamond "stones" for sharpening
plane blades. You want a fairly big one, like 3 inches wide by 9 - 10 inches
long. They tend to come is two forms. One is solid steel with 100% diamond
coverage on the surface and the other is a plastic block with a perforated
steel plate embedded in the top surface. Since the plate is perforated, you
don't have 100% coverage. The perforated ones are cheaper. They can be found
for as little as $40 compared to $70 for the full coverage ones. For our
purposes they may even be superior because the little dimples created by the
perforations provide a place for ground up bits of stuff to collect instead
of clogging up the diamond matrix. What is considered "coarse" for
sharpening - 320 grit - is plenty fine enough for us, though you can buy
finer ones or combination (coarse on one side, fine on the other) ones.
Water is used to help lubricate the process and to keep the ground particles
in suspension, though I have used them dry for a small amount of work
followed by a wash in water afterward.
While I am on my usual diamond rant I'll also point out that DMT also
manufactures what they call "diamond honing cones". These have the diamond
on the convex surface so even if you encounter a little sharp bit on the
inside of a mug lip you can easily get to it to smooth it out. The smallest
one is like a small rat-tail file and could be used to enlarge holes in
fired pieces.
Bruce "diamonds are a potter's best friend" Girrell
Susan & Bill on wed 11 feb 04
I smooth the bottoms out in the greenware stage by using a small piece of
nylon window screen. I had a piece leftover from fixing our door after the
dog went crazy during a thunderstorm but you can get a small piece from the
hardware store very cheap. It works great but be sure to wear a mask.
Susan Babine
Dancing Moon Pottery
Goffstown, NH (where we have had many below zero nights this winter)
elca branman on wed 11 feb 04
Go to an automotive supply store and buy a tube of valve grinder
stuff...baby's bottom smooth with very little effort...about $3 or $4 a
tube
Elca Branman
http://www.elcabranman.com
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Tom Sawyer on wed 11 feb 04
Elca,
Once I buy the "valve grinder stuff" how is it used???
Tom Sawyer
tsawyer@cfl.rr.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of elca branman
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 11:35 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: smooth bottoms
Go to an automotive supply store and buy a tube of valve grinder
stuff...baby's bottom smooth with very little effort...about $3 or $4 a
tube
Elca Branman
http://www.elcabranman.com
________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
____________________________________________________________________________
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Michael McDowell on wed 11 feb 04
David Hendley suggested the use of an expanding drum sander for
smoothing the bottoms of pots. This is what I have been using for
years, but I got mine at a garage sale so I didn't know anything
about how much they cost or where to get them. Then just yesterday I
got an e-mail from a Clayarter, Linda Hughes, who had been here to
one of Vince's workshops a while back, and took away the memory of
my sanding drum. She had done all the footwork to source the drums
and just wanted me to take a look at the website to confirm it was
what she had seen here years ago. I would not mention it otherwise
since David has fully described the merits of such a drum, but this
site has better prices on both the drums and the sanding belts for
them than what he mentioned. This is a lapidary supply shop, and the
following link should take you right to the appropriate page
www.dadsrockshop.com/sc_products.html . Thier 8" drum is only $58.50
and belts are $21.00 for 10, 6"x2 1/2" drums are $51.00 and 10 belts
for it would be $14.50.
Michael McDowell
Whatcom County, WA
Michael@McDowellPottery.com
http://www.McDowellPottery.com
David Hendley on wed 11 feb 04
60 grit sandpaper is plenty fine to make ultra-smooth pot bottoms.
The problem is that a palm sander has a rigid flat surface and pots
usually do not.
You need a sanding surface that can conform to the pot bottom.
There are two good choices - both mount on a bench grinder:
A "flap wheel" has lots of small strips of sandpaper. They spin
around and are able to get to the recessed areas of whatever you
are sanding.
I use an "expanding sanding drum". This is a rubber wheel with slots
in it that allow it to expand slightly from centrifugal force when
in use. Sanding belts, similar to those used with belt sanders, fit
on the drum.
I got mine from a jewelry supply (Swest, http://www.swestusa.com,
800-527-5057).
It is 6" diameter and 2 1/2" wide, and costs $55. Ten 100 grit belts
are $30 (100 is the coarsest grit they have - this is a jewelry supply,
folks). A belt lasts for about 5 kiln loads of my good-sized kiln, and I
would have no fear putting my pots on a Louis XVI sideboard.
A few years ago Creative Industries, the potters wheel company,
was selling a similar sanding drum specifically for pot bottoms - don't
know if they are still. It was 8" diameter, so the drum and the sanding
belts cost appropriately more than my 6" model.
David Hendley
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
> I work in cone 6 stoneware and usually have used aluminum oxide 60 grit
> sandpaper on a palm sander to smooth the bottoms of pieces. Lately I'm
not
> happy with the results. I'd like smoother bottoms. Any suggestions?
>
Lesley Alexander on thu 12 feb 04
Then, for rough clay to be set on nice furniture, there's clear nail =
polish. Works for me... but the pieces are not subjected to a dishwasher =
which might pull it off..... Lesley
Ababi Sharon on thu 12 feb 04
I use a 180# SiC water- sandpaper I put it in a stove-tray with water
and roll around. It is very primitive but works
Ababi Sharon
Glaze addict
Kibbutz Shoval Israel
ababisha@shoval.org.il
http://ababi.active.co.il
http://www.matrix2000.co.nz/Matrix%20Demo/Ababi.htm
To Ceramics forum in Hebrew:
http://www.botzpottery.co.il/kishurim.html
.
Ivor and Olive Lewis on thu 12 feb 04
Dear Tom, and anyone else who needs this tip.
Go to the Glazier and ask for a piece of "Reclaimed Plate Glass" This
is pretty thick solid stuff 1/4 or more. A good glazier will doctor
the edges and put a small bevel to prevent injury.
This stuff is flat, flat, flat. and inexpensive works well with loose
grit with water or with paste.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Vince Pitelka on thu 12 feb 04
> Now, I have to say, to those of you who sand the bottoms
> of unfired pots:
> STOP IT.
I gotta agree with David Hendley here. I think that sanding greenware kills
the spontaneity and expression in the wares. All those marks left by your
fingers in the natural forming and handling of the piece BELONG there. I am
not talking about smears and smudges left by careless handling. I am
talking about the normal marks left by an experienced potter. Those are
beautiful marks, and the last thing in the world you want to do is sand them
off.
I think sanding greenware leaves an unpleasant texture on the bottoms. It
just looks and feels wrong, unless you want your pots to have the texture of
sandpaper. I don't get it.
There have been good suggestions about how to finish the bottoms at the damp
greenware stage, but as David pointed out, even with a smooth, gritless
claybody the foot will still be a little rough after the firing, and with a
sand or grog claybody the foot will be very rough after the firing, no
matter how you compress it in the greenware state.
I'm tellin' ya, I've tried every conceivable method for smoothing bottoms
after the firing, and if you try the abrasive flap wheel I described in my
previous post on this subject, you will have no need to ever try anything
else.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Lee Love on thu 12 feb 04
Kim Marie wrote:
>I work in cone 6 stoneware and usually have used aluminum oxide 60 grit
>sandpaper on a palm sander to smooth the bottoms of pieces. Lately I'm not
>happy with the results. I'd like smoother bottoms. Any suggestions?
>
>
In Japan, we use a carbide sharpening stone. At Tokichi, the
Mashiko pottery fair, you can hear the ringing of the stones on the feet
of the pots. It is a way folks announce a sale, even if they have
already smoothed the bottoms at home.
Lee In Mashiko.
foxpots on thu 12 feb 04
Hope you guys and gals don't get tired of seeing my name pop up on this
subject, BUT--I have two separate sets of ware shelves: dirty shelves and
clean shelves. Freshly thrown pots go on the "dirty" shelves. Once feet
have been turned, pots go on the "clean" shelves. I also use the "clean"
shelves to hold pots for bisque and glazing.
Jean Wadsworth Cochran
http://www.foxhollowpottery.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of claybair
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 4:13 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: smooth bottoms
I had a DUH moment a few months ago.
After trimming foot rings I smoothed them beautifully
with a rib. However after firing they looked and felt rough.
Seems after trimming carefully I would place the pot
on any ole shelf to dry. These any ole shelves had
dried bits of clay on them which nicked, dented and
roughed up the bottoms.
I am being more careful now. and think in addition
will place a piece of newsprint on my hardibacker
boards to prevent any texture imprint.
wayneinkeywest on thu 12 feb 04
Those of you that appreciate rough bottoms
with wire marks can just go ahead and
delete this post...to each our own.
Being in the janitorial industry, I've found
a set of floor machine pads (12") mounted
to bats work amazingly well. They're
round, about 1 inch thick, and meant to
fit on the bottom of floor care machines
for things like wax stripping, floor polishing.
Colors do vary some, depending on the
manufacturer, but generally, black is the
most aggressive and white the most soft,
with red blue and green in the middle.
I use the black for greenware, and the
white one for leather hard or softer.
The nice thing about the pads is that
they're made from plastic, and can be
washed and reused over and over,
especially if glued to a plastic bat.
Beats the heck out of trimming, unless
I need a foot; just slap it on the wheel
and go for it. Off in a jiffy, easy as
changing a bat. If you buy more than one
(they're cheap) you can use it also for texturing,
or cut it with a scissors and use part to replace that
worn out green "Scotchbrite" pad you're using
for cleaning around the studio.
Just my $0.02
Wayne Seidl
Lou Roess on thu 12 feb 04
on 2/11/04 7:45 PM, Vince Pitelka at vpitelka@DTCCOM.NET wrote:
> the very best tool for getting
> silky smooth bottoms is an abrasive flap wheel on a 6" bench grinder.
At a building supply store I found a flap sander to use with an electric
drill for about seven dollars. It's not as easy to use as the bench grinder,
I'm sure, but does a great job and was available locally.
Lou in Colorado
Ron Roy on thu 12 feb 04
I have not been following this thread but what I have seen is somewhat shy
on the safety aspect.
I do all smoothing on my wheel - pot upside down - with a soft stone - I
get em in any hardware store - they are sort of arrowhead shape with a
handle - for knife sharpening.
Soak the stone in water - add a little water to the pot while it's turning
and hold the stone on the parts you want to smooth.
The main advantage is no dust. Grinding fired clay is going to produce
exactly the kind of fine dust you don't want in your studio - even if you
wear a proper mask - the fine dust created can stay suspended for hours -
and is particularly dangerous if the ware has any cristobalite in it - it
will always have free quartz in it.
Then there are the glazes that contain various toxic materials - and many
of the glazes are not stable - that dust - will be broken down in your
lungs and absorbed by your body.
Under water grinding produces a very fine surface. Attaching a casserole to
your wheel head and holding the lid still while the bottom is rotating -
with a little water in the galley will produce a wonderful feeling between
the two and make a better fit.
RR.
>With any such device, always wear proper eye protection, and when using a
>grinder or flapwheel be sure to wear a respirator as well.
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
David Hendley on thu 12 feb 04
Our discussions subject of "smooth bottoms" is bound to
end up as references in some strange and exotic internet
searches.
As often happens, the postings have split off into two
entirely different subjects. Some have assumed that Kim,
the original enquirer, was asking about smoothing the
bottoms of pots before they are fired, while others thought
she was wanting to know about smoothing the bottoms of
fired, finished pots.
In my reply telling about expanding drum sanders and
flap wheels, I assumed the later. No matter how smooth
stoneware clay is before it is fired, high firing and the
resultant shrinkage is bound to cause unevenness and
some roughness in unglazed clay.
Smoothing the bottoms of fired pots is good, thoughtful,
craftsman-like practice.
Now, I have to say, to those of you who sand the bottoms
of unfired pots:
STOP IT.
Unless you are going for a "sanded look", there is no good
reason to be sanding the bottoms of greenware. If sanding
is part of your production process, you need to change your
process.
No only is it a waste of time, it is a genuine health hazard.
Even if you wear a mask while sanding, tiny particles will be
let loose in your studio, to be stirred up at a later time.
Of course we all have to occasionally sand a piece of greenware
because of an unusual rough spot, but sanding should not be
a part of your regular procedure.
David Hendley
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
claybair on thu 12 feb 04
I had a DUH moment a few months ago.
After trimming foot rings I smoothed them beautifully
with a rib. However after firing they looked and felt rough.
Seems after trimming carefully I would place the pot
on any ole shelf to dry. These any ole shelves had
dried bits of clay on them which nicked, dented and
roughed up the bottoms.
I am being more careful now. and think in addition
will place a piece of newsprint on my hardibacker
boards to prevent any texture imprint.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of foxpots
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 8:43 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: smooth bottoms
Dear Fellow Clay Arters,
When I turn my feet, I take a stainless steel teaspoon and sort of burnish
the foot while it spins.
Jean Wadsworth Cochran
http://www.foxhollowpottery.com
____________________________________________________________________________
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wayneinkeywest on thu 12 feb 04
But, but...but, David...it gives me a chance to hold and
(hopefully) admire a piece before I send it off to the
vagaries of the kiln deities, then on to it's new home,
where I'll NEVER see it AGAIN!!! (sob!! :>)
David is right, folks. If you're gonna clean up the
bottom, do it while you can do it wet.
Silicosis is no joke.
Wayne Seidl
snip
> STOP IT.
> Unless you are going for a "sanded look", there is no good
> reason to be sanding the bottoms of greenware. If sanding
> is part of your production process, you need to change your
> process.
> No only is it a waste of time, it is a genuine health hazard.
> Even if you wear a mask while sanding, tiny particles will be
> let loose in your studio, to be stirred up at a later time.
> Of course we all have to occasionally sand a piece of greenware
> because of an unusual rough spot, but sanding should not be
> a part of your regular procedure.
>
> David Hendley
> david@farmpots.com
> http://www.farmpots.com
Cindi Anderson on fri 13 feb 04
I have something to add. A couple years ago when this topic came up, I just
didn't get how people could avoid sanding (my favorite was scotchbrite pad).
My pieces just looked unprofessional unsanded. The imperfections were very
noticeable on the finished ware. But I found that when I started using Cone
6 clay fired with Cone 6 glazes, everything was fine. The imperfections
melted away. I believe that when you fire to maturity and get clay/glaze
interaction, it bleeeends. I believe the reason some people don't even get
why other people have a problem is because they always fire Cone 10 where
clay/glaze interaction is happening, and clays are typically maturing.
I also think another factor that helped me was getting better at judging
when I could handle pieces (when it is time to trim, to attach handles,
etc), and also if I throw better the clay is not as soft, it doesn't make as
many marks, and you don't fuss as much.
Cindi
Fremont, CA
claybair on fri 13 feb 04
Great idea Ron....
I have been using the sandpaper that can be wet
but I like your idea better.
I think the pot could be held in place with
my new Giffin Grip.....yet another use for it!
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Roy
I have not been following this thread but what I have seen is somewhat shy
on the safety aspect.
I do all smoothing on my wheel - pot upside down - with a soft stone - I
get em in any hardware store - they are sort of arrowhead shape with a
handle - for knife sharpening.
Soak the stone in water - add a little water to the pot while it's turning
and hold the stone on the parts you want to smooth.
Lee Love on fri 13 feb 04
David Hendley wrote:
>Unless you are going for a "sanded look", there is no good
>reason to be sanding the bottoms of greenware.
>
Better to do it in the leather-hard state.
Lee In Mashiko, Japan
Ababi Sharon on fri 13 feb 04
By the way - my anti spam program hate s this thread!
Ababi.
Vince Pitelka on fri 13 feb 04
Then, for rough clay to be set on nice furniture, there's clear nail
polish. Works for me... but the pieces are not subjected to a dishwasher
which might pull it off.....
No offense to you Lesley, but I object to this. When finishing ceramic
objects, I think it is a noble and appropriate gesture to avoid non-fired
processes whenever possible. If you use the abrasive flap wheel mentioned
in an earlier post (sorry to be so persistent), you will not have to resort
to clear nail polish, the mere idea of which makes me queasy. I do not
understand the mind-set that would make one even consider such a thing when
appropriate finishing methods will serve the purpose very well.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Lee Love on fri 13 feb 04
Susan & Bill wrote:
>I smooth the bottoms out in the greenware stage by using a small piece of
>nylon window screen.
>
At greenware stage, a piece of drywall abrasive (it look like screen,
but feels like sandpaper) is very effective. I tack mine down to a
board that has a stop board on the bottom so the whole rubbing set up
stays in place while you are moving the bottom of the pot against it.
Lee in Mashiko, japan
Bonnie Staffel on sat 14 feb 04
Well, you can tell my age from where I got my first stone to smooth pot
bottoms. It was called a Scythe Sharpening Stone. It was a very nice 12" X
1" thick bar of silicon carbide, lasted a long time. When I moved to NC
couldn't find the darned things because I was asking for the wrong article.
They called it a Lawn Mower Blade Sharpening Stone. I have some from those
early days, worn down to a flat point so I can get into some tight spots. I
just rub that stone over the bottom of the finished pot. Voila!!! it is
easily smoothed. However, during trimming, I also smooth the leather hard
surface with a flat wood tool. Some hardware stores carry these stones.
Regards, Bonnie Staffel in cold, cold Charlevoix.
http://pws.chartermi.net/~bstaffel/contactlinks.htm
Russel Fouts on sat 14 feb 04
I use terra-sig on my bottoms (earthenware), smoooooooooooth! It also
seals the exposed clay.
Russel
--
Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
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Joseph Herbert on sat 14 feb 04
It seems that there will always be some "tooth" on the base of a pot after
firing, regardless of the amount of effort or the extravagance of method
used to smooth it before firing. Investigating the foot ring of a
commercial porcelain bowl or plate reveals a surface rough enough for honing
a knife blade. I have to remind myself to put off touching the edge on my
pocket knife until after I have completely finished the coffee. In any
event, the uniformity of material achieved in commercial production should
eliminate rough surfaces if it were at all possible. Since these surfaces
are a little rough, it seems that it may not be possible to achieve a really
smooth foot ring without post-firing intervention.
If that is true, and it seems so, then many of the more extravagant
smoothing efforts, pre firing, are less than effective and in some cases
dangerous. Dry sanding of greenware produces needless airborne clay duct
right in front of your nose. If you manage to not breath it by respirator
use or frantic long term breath holding, this dust will remain airborne and
available to you, your studio visitors, and your family for a long time.
Some might hypothesize that the urge to sand greenware is the result of
previous long term breath holding. If you have yet to gain entrance into
the anoxia fancier ranks, then post firing treatments are better.
The range of post-firing treatments range from none at all - my favorite -
to diamond honing. When confronted with several pots that seemed should
have some help, I resorted to a 4 inch angle grinder with a masonry wheel.
I put the pieces upside down on a foam pad and made a couple of light passes
around the foot ring trying to keep the rim of the wheel and the foot ring
nearly concentric. Very smooth result. The pieces were bowls and pretty
stable when upside down. Tall vases or mugs might require more support to
prevent launching.
I have thought that gluing wet/dry silicon carbide paper, in the range of
100 grit, to a Plexiglas bat and using that surface wet and slowly rotating
on the wheel as an ideal solution for treating foot rings routinely. A lot
of the secondary power tool solutions, like the angle grinder or the
abrasive flap wheel, are good when fixing a single problem piece. If you
are going to smooth most of your production, I think using the tool you have
already might be better. Also, using a wet grinding method helps control
the dust which is again produced but in a larger size than during that nasty
dry greenware sanding.
One could also try to reinforce the idea that possession of furniture with
smooth, scratch-free surfaces is passé and an issue that you, as an artist,
do not need to address.
Joseph Herbert
=?iso-8859-1?q?Marilu=20Tejero?= on sun 15 feb 04
Smooth bottoms at the time of turning.
At lower speed, press lightly wet finger on thin rims.
Press your metal kidney against larger bases, that leaves them smooth
and burnished.
After firing, rub around with a carborundum stone.
Always gently. That should be enough.
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Exhibit/3051
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Bob Santerre on mon 16 feb 04
I haven't tried the flap wheels that Vince speaks of below, but I use a
different wheel, a Norton finish wheel, #4F793 also from the Grainger
catalog. It also has the 1" center hole so you need the same arbor
adapter kit. I actually clamp 2 of these together to give a 2"
grinding surface ... good for large plate bottoms. This wheel also puts
a nice smooth finish on cone10 stoneware bottoms. Guess I'll buy one of
the flap wheels and compare them side-by-side. The flap wheel may be
more durable and might generate less dust. We'll see.
Bob
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Vince Pitelka wrote:
>
>Abrasive flap wheels are composed of hundreds of straps of heavy duty
>abrasive cloth tightly bound to a central hub, making a very dense wheel
>that has some flex to it, so it rounds off sharp edges beautifully.
>
>Go to the grainger.com website, and enter "3DV15" in the search box, and it
>will take you to a 120-grit 6" by 1" flap wheel with a 1+ center hole for
>$21.78. Then in the search box enter "3DV21" and it will take you to the
>$2.06 bushing set you need to adapt the flap wheel to a 1/2" or a 5/8"
>arbor.
>
>At the Craft Center we have an abrasive flap wheel mounted on a 1/2 HP
>motor, and everyone uses it to clean the bottoms of their pots. Each wheel
>lasts us three or four months. For most potters, one wheel would last years
>and years, so it is well worth the investment.
>
>
>
>
Brian Haviland on tue 17 feb 04
>
> When finishing ceramic
>objects, I think it is a noble and appropriate gesture to avoid non-fired
>processes whenever possible. .
>Best wishes -
>- Vince
On that subject.......is there a different way to put a final finish on
raku pots
other than paste wax. I agree with you on the non-fired processes because
i want the finish to last as long as the vessel itself and not have to maintain
it over the years (or) have to give the buyer instructions on how to care
for the
finish. I use Vince's terra sig. but some times after the firing there are
small
rough spots on the surface that only paste wax can handle...I am going to try
buffing compound and a fine cloth wheel to see if it works without removing
any surface patina from ferric chloride treatment....If any one can relate
any other
methods it would be of great help....
Thanks, Brian Haviland
>Vince Pitelka
>Appalachian Center for Craft
>Tennessee Technological University
>1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
>Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
>615/597-5376
>Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
>615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
>http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
>http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
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