David Hendley on mon 6 jul 98
At 01:42 PM 7/3/98 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>reminder:
>hard brick is for flues, stacks, floors and patios.
>it is worthless as a kiln builder, do not get it at any price.
>cheap hard bricks just are not worth it.
>buy insulated fire brick...it is the only way.
>do not go back to the dark ages of ceramics to build a kiln when
>so many great new things are happening. it is a waste of time and money.
>not to mention energy and fuel.
>mel/mn
>
Dear mel,
Yes, hard firebricks are not the best choice for kiln building, but I
can't go along with calling them "worthless at any price".
It is easy to tell folks to buy the best possible materials, but there
are a lot of beginning potters who would love to build a small kiln
and have a limited, or non-existent, budget. I would rather have them
jump in and build a kiln, any kiln, instead of waiting for years to
save enough money to buy the best and newest materials! Besides,
when they then build a second one, or third one, those will be even
better because of all the experience and learning gained from that
less than perfect first kiln.
Consider cars for a moment.
There is no doubt that a brand new car is the best kind you can buy.
New cars are safer, with things like air bags all over the place and
automatically adjusting brakes.
New cars are also more efficient and use less fuel.
New cars are more reliable and need very little maintenance.
So, are new cars "the only way"?
Of course not, but, according to your logic, the answer would be "yes".
Every day people "go back to the dark ages", and buy vehicles
with outdated technology like carburetors and points.
Vehicles without safety features like airbags and ABS brakes.
Vehicles that are not very fuel efficient.
Why? Because they don't have $30k to buy the newest and best.
Although less than perfect, that $1250, 15 year old "Delta 88"
will still get you to school or work (and back, most of the time).
Back to bricks, I am also thrilled with my "cheap" (10 cents a brick)
70% alumina hard fire bricks I recently got from the shut down
firebrick factory. These 10 pound suckers are rated for about
cone 25, and, with their high alumina content, should be able to
take the brunt of any ash laden flame I can produce.
"Cheap" does not always mean "cheap". These are absolute premium
quality bricks that would be quite expensive if ordered through a
refratories company.
Strategically placed hard bricks, backed with insulating bricks,
will not waste your time and money, or use significantly
more fuel, but will give you a much longer lasting kiln, when
using wood as a fuel. I wouldn't think of building my fireboxes
out of insulating fire brick. Ditto for those "hot spots" that are
really assaulted by the flame.
It's great to have you back on Clayart, mel.
David Hendley,
not even thinking about doing a wood firing in
100 degree, drought stricken Texas
kurt wild on tue 7 jul 98
David Hendley wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> At 01:42 PM 7/3/98 EDT, you wrote:
> >----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> >reminder:
> >hard brick is for flues, stacks, floors and patios.
> >it is worthless as a kiln builder, do not get it at any price.
> >cheap hard bricks just are not worth it.
> >buy insulated fire brick...it is the only way.
> >do not go back to the dark ages of ceramics to build a kiln when
> >so many great new things are happening. it is a waste of time and money.
> >not to mention energy and fuel.
> >mel/mn
> >
>
> Dear mel,
>
> Yes, hard firebricks are not the best choice for kiln building, but I
> can't go along with calling them "worthless at any price".
> It is easy to tell folks to buy the best possible materials, but there
> are a lot of beginning potters who would love to build a small kiln
> and have a limited, or non-existent, budget. I would rather have them
> jump in and build a kiln, any kiln, instead of waiting for years to
> save enough money to buy the best and newest materials! Besides,
> when they then build a second one, or third one, those will be even
> better because of all the experience and learning gained from that
> less than perfect first kiln.
>
> Consider cars for a moment.
> There is no doubt that a brand new car is the best kind you can buy.
> New cars are safer, with things like air bags all over the place and
> automatically adjusting brakes.
> New cars are also more efficient and use less fuel.
> New cars are more reliable and need very little maintenance.
> So, are new cars "the only way"?
> Of course not, but, according to your logic, the answer would be "yes".
>
> Every day people "go back to the dark ages", and buy vehicles
> with outdated technology like carburetors and points.
> Vehicles without safety features like airbags and ABS brakes.
> Vehicles that are not very fuel efficient.
> Why? Because they don't have $30k to buy the newest and best.
> Although less than perfect, that $1250, 15 year old "Delta 88"
> will still get you to school or work (and back, most of the time).
>
> Back to bricks, I am also thrilled with my "cheap" (10 cents a brick)
> 70% alumina hard fire bricks I recently got from the shut down
> firebrick factory. These 10 pound suckers are rated for about
> cone 25, and, with their high alumina content, should be able to
> take the brunt of any ash laden flame I can produce.
> "Cheap" does not always mean "cheap". These are absolute premium
> quality bricks that would be quite expensive if ordered through a
> refratories company.
>
> Strategically placed hard bricks, backed with insulating bricks,
> will not waste your time and money, or use significantly
> more fuel, but will give you a much longer lasting kiln, when
> using wood as a fuel. I wouldn't think of building my fireboxes
> out of insulating fire brick. Ditto for those "hot spots" that are
> really assaulted by the flame.
>
> It's great to have you back on Clayart, mel.
> David Hendley,
> not even thinking about doing a wood firing in
> 100 degree, drought stricken Texas
David:
You are right on about getting started. Not every one can afford the
new stuff; even we built the kiln out of old stuff. Also, I don't want
to think about firing the wood kiln again and it was onlyabout 75
degrees when we did it last. Kurt
--
Kurt Wild
1000 E. Cascade Ave., River Falls, WI 54022 Phone: 715-425-5715
email: kurt.l.wild@uwrf.edu
web site: http://www.uwrf.edu/art/faculty/Wild
iandol on thu 21 dec 00
Dear Capt Mark,
No doubt you have an answer to the question 'if not hard brick then =
what?'
But the beauty of hard brick, especially for a large kiln is the =
retardation that comes to the cooling rate when the power, whatever its =
source, is turned off.
A kiln which cools quickly, the hallmark of a fast fire, lightweight =
thermal construction, seems to have the probability of quenching glazes =
so that they remain glossy and transparent.
A kiln made from dense bricks which have a high thermal mass that =
adsorbs heat slowly, takes an age to get up to temperature will cool =
equally slowly. This gives all those so called refractory fluxes time to =
meld with silica and alumina, nucleate and grow into amazing showers of =
coloured crystal.
For glazes with character my choice would be hard brick.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill South Australia
Don Hunt on thu 21 dec 00
Dear Ivor,
This is a excellent opportunity for me to ask a question which will clarify my understanding of The Fire. What difference does the heat up and cool down time make out side of the total time the glaze is at all soft? For a cone ten glaze what might this range be? The extra btu's from 1200 to 1600
for instance must surely be wasted. Could this slow melt, slow cool cycle be duplicated in a more efficient way in a fiber kiln with firing down?
Thanks for your help
Don
iandol wrote:
> Dear Capt Mark,
> No doubt you have an answer to the question 'if not hard brick then what?'
> But the beauty of hard brick, especially for a large kiln is the retardation that comes to the cooling rate when the power, whatever its source, is turned off.
> A kiln which cools quickly, the hallmark of a fast fire, lightweight thermal construction, seems to have the probability of quenching glazes so that they remain glossy and transparent.
> A kiln made from dense bricks which have a high thermal mass that adsorbs heat slowly, takes an age to get up to temperature will cool equally slowly. This gives all those so called refractory fluxes time to meld with silica and alumina, nucleate and grow into amazing showers of coloured crystal.
> For glazes with character my choice would be hard brick.
> Best regards,
> Ivor Lewis. Redhill South Australia
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Susan Patt on wed 30 may 01
can anyone tell me the going rate for hard brick--both new and used?
thanks for your help,
Susan Patt
Davidwhwnion on tue 26 apr 11
Is hard brick that has been exposed to the elements safe to use in a new ki=
l=3D
n? I am planning to build a small wood salt. Any advise would be welcome.=
T=3D
hanx. David
Sent from my iPhone=3D
Steve Mills on tue 26 apr 11
My latest wood Kiln was built using 2nd hand hards that has been sitting on=
a=3D
n in-wrapped pallet in the open all winter.
The Kiln fired really well, with no issues with the bricks at all.=3D20
Steve M
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
www.mudslinger.me.uk
Sent from my Ipod touch
On 26 Apr 2011, at 11:47, Davidwhwnion wrote:
> Is hard brick that has been exposed to the elements safe to use in a new =
k=3D
iln? I am planning to build a small wood salt. Any advise would be welcom=
e=3D
. Thanx. David
> Sent from my iPhone
Craig Edwards on tue 26 apr 11
David: Yes, I've had hardbrick that I've salvaged from a brick kiln that
sat out since the 1930's. This is in Minnesota where it can be -20F to
100F.
They should work just fine.
Make Good Pots
~Craig
New London MN
http://woodfiredpottery.blogspot.com/
On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 5:47 AM, Davidwhwnion wrote=
:
> Is hard brick that has been exposed to the elements safe to use in a new
> kiln? I am planning to build a small wood salt. Any advise would be
> welcome. Thanx. David
> Sent from my iPhone
Lee on tue 26 apr 11
My little kiln I built on Steve's early design was made of old brick that
had moss growing on it. Worked fine. I built it to bisque my apprentic=
=3D
e
work for the noborigama. It could hit red heat in an hour. I had to mak=
=3D
e
a fire outside of the kiln to dry the greenware. But when I started stokin=
=3D
g
inside, it would finish in an hour.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he land
of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent within
itself." -- John O'Donohue
jonathan byler on tue 26 apr 11
lee,
do you have plans for this kiln? or are they available somewhere? =3D20
sounds interesting.
thanks,
jon
On Apr 26, 2011, at 9:59 AM, Lee wrote:
> My little kiln I built on Steve's early design was made of old brick =3D2=
0=3D
> that
> had moss growing on it. Worked fine. I built it to bisque my =3D20
> apprentice
> work for the noborigama. It could hit red heat in an hour. I had =3D2=
0=3D
> to make
> a fire outside of the kiln to dry the greenware. But when I started =3D2=
0=3D
> stoking
> inside, it would finish in an hour.
>
> --
> Lee Love in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>
> "Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97th=
at =3D
is, "The =3D20
> land
> of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent within
> itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee on tue 26 apr 11
Jon,
It is basically a Minnesota Flatop with an arch. Mel and Kurt's
design for a small flat top is here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/20570774/Flattop-Kiln-Complete
Good Luck!
On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 2:56 PM, jonathan byler wrote:
> lee,
>
> do you have plans for this kiln? or are they available somewhere? sounds
> interesting.
>
> thanks,
> jon
>
>
>
> On Apr 26, 2011, at 9:59 AM, Lee wrote:
>
> My little kiln I built on Steve's early design was made of old brick tha=
=3D
t
>> had moss growing on it. Worked fine. I built it to bisque my
>> apprentice
>> work for the noborigama. It could hit red heat in an hour. I had to
>> make
>> a fire outside of the kiln to dry the greenware. But when I started
>> stoking
>> inside, it would finish in an hour.
>>
>> --
>> Lee Love in Minneapolis
>> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>>
>> "Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97t=
hat is, =3D
"The land
>> of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent within
>> itself." -- John O'Donohue
>>
>
--=3D20
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he land
of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent within
itself." -- John O'Donohue
jonathan byler on tue 26 apr 11
yours was woodfired, though? and made with hardbrick?
On Apr 26, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Lee wrote:
> Jon,
>
> It is basically a Minnesota Flatop with an arch. Mel and =3D2=
0=3D
> Kurt's design for a small flat top is here:
>
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/20570774/Flattop-Kiln-Complete
>
> Good Luck!
>
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 2:56 PM, jonathan byler =3D2=
0=3D
> wrote:
> lee,
>
> do you have plans for this kiln? or are they available somewhere? =3D20
> sounds interesting.
>
> thanks,
> jon
>
>
>
> On Apr 26, 2011, at 9:59 AM, Lee wrote:
>
> My little kiln I built on Steve's early design was made of old brick =3D2=
0=3D
> that
> had moss growing on it. Worked fine. I built it to bisque my =3D20
> apprentice
> work for the noborigama. It could hit red heat in an hour. I had =3D2=
0=3D
> to make
> a fire outside of the kiln to dry the greenware. But when I started =3D2=
0=3D
> stoking
> inside, it would finish in an hour.
>
> --
> Lee Love in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>
> "Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97th=
at =3D
is, "The =3D20
> land
> of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent within
> itself." -- John O'Donohue
>
>
>
> --=3D20
> --
> Lee Love in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>
> "Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97t=
hat =3D
is, =3D20
> "The land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land =3D20
> fluent within itself." -- John O'Donohue
jonathan byler on tue 26 apr 11
super cool! thanks. saved to my archives.
On Apr 26, 2011, at 4:46 PM, Lee wrote:
> http://ia600100.us.archive.org/14/items/Steve_Mills_Backyard_Kilns/Backya=
rdKilns.pdf
Vince Pitelka on tue 26 apr 11
David wrote:
"Is hard brick that has been exposed to the elements safe to use in a new
kiln? I am planning to build a small wood salt. Any advise would be
welcome.
David -
Hardbrick is not adversely affected by being out in the weather. It should
be perfectly fine. If the kiln is very wet once constructed then do a slow
candling heat-up to dry it out, but there is no danger.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
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